Hand rearing babies

lovekats

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Hi! I've taken in five kittens whose mother was run over. They are between two and three weeks as best I can tell; eyes open, ears just opened over the last two days, crawl/walk very wobbly.

So far it's going well and all seem healthy. I made the mistake of not turning on the heating pad last night and found one on his way out this morning. I gave him some sugar water and a drop or two of milk, turned the heating pad on and he was doing much better after a few hours.

I have three males and two females, the females are definitely the most vocal and nervous. True to form! The males are not nearly as loud and are a lot more laid back. One female screams at the top of her lungs the entire time she is awake. Even if she's just been fed.

They're all eating well. All eager to eat, and suckling well. Although I have read and seen that feeding them on their bellies is best, I just cannot get them to feed that way, they wriggle and fall off the nipple too much. I have been swaddling them in a cloth with their paws bound and holding them up at a 90 degree angle and so far there's been no problems.

They do go quite a while between feedings though. Sometimes 6 hours, but then other times they want to feed in frequent, tiny amounts. In that case, I just make a couple of rounds or so until they're calmed back down.

They have a bit of diarrhea and that concerns me some, but they are getting stronger and thriving so I suppose it isn't too big a deal.  I've added a bit of pumpkin to a feeding and a bit of yogurt to the next. Nothing else added until someone has a bm so I can see what it's like.
 

They also have teeth just beginning to poke through the gums. They love to chew on the nipple where their molars will be coming in. Teething, I guess. I've tried some soft food, but they really aren't ready and just crawl around in it not really eating it. They love the smell of it and want it, but just don't know how to eat it yet.

I'm not having any trouble relieving their bladders or getting them to produce a bm; it's just a little watery.

I have some questions!

When should I introduce a litterbox?

At what age should I allow them to go to new homes?

Should I worry about the screamer? She's moving around fine and is alert, just very unsettled.

Thanks! I picked this forum bc of the good advice I've read from you all, so I'm sure I'm in good hands :)
 

StefanZ

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I have some questions!

When should I introduce a litterbox?

At what age should I allow them to go to new homes?

Should I worry about the screamer? She's moving around fine and is alert, just very unsettled.
You seems to do it marvellously well!   At least, the results are marvellously good!   It seems also, taking care of orphans is  easier than taking care of abandoned kittens.   Orphans are usually essentially healthy.  While the abandoned are often sickly in some way.  As we noticed i a couple of threads lately.

Re the feeding postion:  You do what works for you.  So proceed! Tummy down is perhaps more 45 degrees up, as its seldom flat on the tummy, but tummy down yes.

I mean, people have the spontaneus tummy up like they have a baby.  Even on you tube you can see  clips with semigrown kittens eating a bottle holding it by all fours paws, tummy adorably up.   It may surely work with almost grown healthy kittens, but not with small, perhaps weak kittens...

OK,   litterboxes.   When they beginto eat  more common cat food for real.   Their poo will also change at that time.   Make sure its a non clumping litter.

Age:  They dont have any mom to learn from, but they do have siblings to train with.   So at least 8 weeks, preferably a little more.

Exceptions may be if there is already a kitten friendly cat or dog in the household fro them to play with, and perhaps get some guidance.   But I still believe in the 8 weeks...

Screamer:   I dunno to be honest.   As she is otherwise fine, I guess it will be OK. Normally I would take it as a warning sign as something amiss.

The usual advice of contacting your vet works only if the vet is experienced with kittens.  Many arent.    Phone him and sound out him?

Good luck!
 

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ps.  Try with having fleece for them to lay on!   After a tip of one of our forumists.  It will perhaps help this screaming.  Also, fleece or flannel are in themselfes good - the claws dont fasten in them.  @lovekats
 
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lovekats

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Thank you for your posts. It's nice to be reassured that things seem to be going well. I learned the glucose (sugar water) trick from raising chickens; they sometimes become ill and weak and that works well on them too.

I do have three dogs, two under the age of 1yr. Those two assist in emptying bladders and bowels. I won't let the pups eat a bm, if I see it, I finish it myself. But the urine- whatevs. One of my pups will ever-so-gently pick up a kitten by the scruff and set it on the floor to bathe. He's kitten obsessed, as is my female pup. The older of the three, almost 2yrs isn't interested at all; he's a Chihuahua, after all and cannot be bothered with such. My adult cat absolutely hates the kittens, he hisses and growls as he leaves the room.

I read about the fleece and thought it would be a good idea too. I'm short on funds so I'll try a fleecey-flannely blanket. I also read on here about burping them so I started doing that. ADORABLE!! They purr and purr and purr and then a tiny burp, lol!

I haven't weighed them yet. I have never done that before and just gone by whether or not they're thriving. I like the idea for my guy that almost didn't make it, and I know there's a chance he could nosedive. He seems to have lost some weight in the ordeal, so weighing might be good to track him?

I'm also looking for a formula recipe that isn't complicated. So far, all I can find are recipes with more than 4-5 ingredients. Some with whole egg and some with just yolk. I'm looking for something simple. Perhaps goats milk, yolk, and dark syrup? With water dilute as needed. Any good sources for recipes that don't require mayonnaise, or some complicated powder/gelatin concoction?
 
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lovekats

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I forgot to add that I think the screaming little girl is just missing her mother and the contact. She won't really settle down with me b/c I'm not mom. The other female, although a climber and escapes frequently during feeding time, has calmed quite a bit and really loves to sit with me and purr her heart out while I pet her and love on her.

I have to agree with you about the vet. I fear I'll only be given a general antibiotic that is costly and unnecessary along with info that I already have and use. I can get general antibiotics from my local feed store. It's good on livestock, poultry, dogs, cats, and used to be regularly prescribed to humans.

Next step: securing homes for these little ones. :)
 

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I'm also looking for a formula recipe that isn't complicated. So far, all I can find are recipes with more than 4-5 ingredients. Some with whole egg and some with just yolk. I'm looking for something simple. Perhaps goats milk, yolk, and dark syrup? With water dilute as needed. Any good sources for recipes that don't require mayonnaise, or some complicated powder/gelatin concoction?
You can essentially  contend yourself with goat milk, additives arent really necessary. If you can get fresh goat milk, its even better.   But bottled is fine, esp if its no obscure low fat version.

Quite a few rescuers use goat milk and are happy with it.  Some say they use it when they dont have good commercial  kmr, others  use it by preference.

Most are satisfied as far as I know.    Some feel they must dilute some with water if need be.

If you want to elaborate so sure, you can add yolk and a little dark syrup. Or white caro syrup.  Especielly if the bottled milk you manage to get is such a low fat 

version.

I myself belive the complicated majonnas / gelatine etc kibbles were constructed, when they didnt had goat milk, nor good commercial made kmr.    And when the constructor got hold of goat milk,  she just doubled up the goods:  both goat milk  and the now not longer necessary extra additives...

Re the antibiotic from the general store.  Yes, they should do.  Knowleable experienced rescuers who know all the ropes and shortcuts, do often use them.

But you must know exactly what sort on what  problems, and also, the  dosage.   They do it also of course on their own responsibility.

If you dont know, or cant take the responsibility,  better to ask your vet than experiment.

Good luck!
 
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lovekats

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Re the antibiotic from the general store.  Yes, they should do.  Knowleable experienced rescuers who know all the ropes and shortcuts, do often use them.

But you must know exactly what sort on what  problems, and also, the  dosage.   They do it also of course on their own responsibility.

If you dont know, or cant take the responsibility,  better to ask your vet than experiment.
The antibiotic I have is Tetracycline. It's a broad spectrum antibiotic and it's my first go-to if I suspect a bacterial infection in any of my animals. Anytime I dont' see improvement after a few days, I call the vet. My vet actually recommended it to me for my chicken(s) and it's commonly prescribed for dogs, cats, livestock, even people ;) I do agree though that I take the full responsibility for dosage and administration. So far, I don't see a need for it, but wouldn't take chances by mixing it with their formula. I would have to give it in a dropper. I don't believe in taking or using antibiotics unless absolutely necessary. However, kittens can be so delicate and turn downhill with little warning so I wouldn't want to wait too long.  But as I said, I don't see the need for them right now.

Thanks for the insight on the formula. I went with one can of whole/evaporated goats milk, two egg yolks, and two tablespoons (15ml) of light Karo. I didn't add water so that I can dilute as needed. I hope that's appropriate as at least three of them still have watery stools.
 
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lovekats

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As of today, all are doing well. I added a fleece-like blanket and the screaming little girl has calmed. All the boys are content and laid back as usual. The second girl is still unsettled. She climbs out of everything and isn't content no matter what. I've tried holding her close to me and she just climbs me and cries. She's eating well and eliminating well, so I suppose it's her nature.

One problem I had today was nose bubbles. This worries me! Two, maybe three, through out the day's feedings had a little milk coming from their noses. Maybe a drop? When I saw it, I instinctively turned them upside down (nose towards the floor) and waited for it to drip. They were all able to push air through their noses to help clear it, but I'm still a bit worried that any may have gotten in the lungs and could settle and cause infection.

What signs should I look for going forward that they have developed complications from this?
 

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One problem I had today was nose bubbles. This worries me! Two, maybe three, through out the day's feedings had a little milk coming from their noses. Maybe a drop? When I saw it, I instinctively turned them upside down (nose towards the floor) and waited for it to drip. They were all able to push air through their noses to help clear it, but I'm still a bit worried that any may have gotten in the lungs and could settle and cause infection.

What signs should I look for going forward that they have developed complications from this?
If they get  milk or water in the lungs, they easily develop pneumonia.  If so, it can go down guickly.  Just hours and its over.  Its not sure you have time to notice more labored breathing or raised temp.   In other cases, yes, you notice and it takes many long hours before it goes this way or another. 

But they make it through sometimes.

Im no vet, but I wonder if you should use the tetracykline you do already have and are experienced with, NOW immediately.  As preemptive.

Because, its not sure you wont notice in time eventual real problems later.

The next question is - WHAT happened really?   What happened this time which wasnt made earlier?   Being used now, had you become a teeny little careless??  Some other change??

You had such  a positive report.   All thriving, the fleece helping, and the lively girl would be called for a "just a typical boy" if she were a boy...    But you may have a crisis hanging over you.   Im not  envying you.

*vibes!*
 
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lovekats

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The next question is - WHAT happened really?   What happened this time which wasnt made earlier?   Being used now, had you become a teeny little careless??  Some other change??

You had such  a positive report.   All thriving, the fleece helping, and the lively girl would be called for a "just a typical boy" if she were a boy...    But you may have a crisis hanging over you.   Im not  envying you.

*vibes!*
Nothing much different is going on, although I'm getting more used to handling them white feeding. They're getting better at getting out of the swaddle and this causes them to reposition and lose suction, then reattach. It's possible they're getting disrupted that way. They're getting pretty greedy :)

Anyhow, in the last two feedings there weren't any problems at all. It's really hard to say if anything really changed. I could take more precaution going forward to stay still while feeding. OH! Just remembered, the dogs were especially nosey during two feedings today and I had to constantly shoo them away. Probably did change position and disrupt their suckling rhythm.

All are still thriving, fleece still helping, no one showing signs of weakness, etc. all are eating well, and eliminating well.
 
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Also, thanks for the vibes :) I'm staying positive too.
 
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Update:

Everyone appears to be doing well. There is still the issue of diarrhea, so I'm going back to adding pumpkin to the formula. Everyone is fairly lively except for the little guy who almost didn't make it. I suspect it's just part of his personality to be fairly laid back.

Here's a problem or two- they're always covered in poo. Some are going to the far side of the crate to potty, but still others are just spreading it around. It's not on anyone's faces, thankfully. But their bottoms, legs, tails, feet are usually carrying some poop. Along with a few smears across a head, back, or belly here and there. I read someone's post in this forum that washes them in warm water every time they assist in elimination. I didn't know if that would be appropriate or not, but I do think that it might help them understand a very clean environment. I think that too could aid in litter training in the future?

I'm going to get another wire crate today and will be able to transfer them to a large wire crate like the one's in the pet supply stores. This will afford them more room to explore and a separate area for elimination. I'll also be rigging up a second level for it so they'll have a little more floor space.

Wish me luck!
 

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Update:
read someone's post in this forum that washes them in warm water every time they assist in elimination. I didn't know if that would be appropriate or not, but I do think that it might help them understand a very clean environment. I think that too could aid in litter training in the future?
The best tip around is you want to wash them, is to use warm running water as THE stimulation.

You held the kittens rear end in warm running water, and tap with the forefinger of the other hand on their private parts.  Usually works like a charm.   cleans off too, and no problems with sores after intensive stimulation...

Of course, no draught and dry up them thoroughly. The room must be warm.

But I understand yours dont need much stimulating, they essentially relieve themselves?   Even try to go aside almost like to a litter?

Another tip to prevent they make mess everywhere, is to stimulate them preemptive - even if hey CAN do it themselves, you help them in a controlled moment.  with this water trick, or just wipe off...

I happy to hear everything goes well!    Just with some normal, individual variation.

Good luck!
 

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there are risks with bathing very young kittens. here's a link to an article about the risks and what to do when kittens really need to be bathed -- http://www.thecatsite.com/a/bathing-small-kittens-tips-that-can-save-a-kittens-life

instead of bathing, you might use a slightly dampened washcloth, making sure it's warm (101 degree F - 103 degree F), to wipe off the bits of poop. i'd make sure the room is toasty warm and draft free, and dry the damp spots off the kittens then place them on the heating pad.
 
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Thanks for the reply! Unfortunately, I've tried to wipe them off and it doesn't come off. I'll check out the article you shared. I don't think bathing them frequently is the way to go they'd never really dry off. I just bathed them today and it was Tues last time I bathed them.
 
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I have a litter of five 3 wk old kittens I'm bottle feeding. They're starting to show interest in canned food, but are still being bottle fed w/some canned food left out for them.

One of the kittens started vomiting yesterday. She also stuffed herself silly yesterday, so I thought maybe her tummy was just upset a little. Today, she's still vomiting and the last one was a tad mucussy. She appears to be vomiting up the same amount she's taking in. She's the smallest of the bunch now and I fear she may not be doing well at all.

I do not have the funds to take her to the vet. So, that's out. I have to go with what I have and can do for her here.

Also, they are starting to leave the nest to eliminate but are still staying pretty dirty most of the time. Almost so that I would need to bathe them daily to keep them clean. Or several times a day. I've tried just wiping the soiling with a warm wet cloth but it doesn't work. The poop gest really stuck in their fur. The only thing that gets it out is being soaked in warm water. They're about ready for a small litter pan.

I bathed them two days ago after four days. I'm going to have ot do it again today, they're so dirty. I really feel awful about how dirty they get and that I can't keep them clean the way a mother would. I'm not going to lick them!! My dogs LOVE to lick them but I can't let them anymore b/c of the possibility of worms.

So, my issues now are the one vomiting, and cleanliness. I'm going through a ridiculous amount of blankets, lol!
 

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One of the kittens started vomiting yesterday. She also stuffed herself silly yesterday, so I thought maybe her tummy was just upset a little. Today, she's still vomiting and the last one was a tad mucussy. She appears to be vomiting up the same amount she's taking in. She's the smallest of the bunch now and I fear she may not be doing well at all.
Try and give her in small portions, just a few drops.  But often.  and quite watery. With a little luck, you may cheat her vomiting reflex and will keep that up.  Use perhaps a dropper, or a tea spoon.

The second line of defence is similiar idea, but with just home made pedialyte.  Glucose sugar + kitchen minerale salt, solved in water.

It works nicely with humans, should work with kittens too.

Be sure the little one is warm - warm up actively!   being sick she has extra difficult to keep up her own warmth.

That is, if its not really serious.  If so, this home treatment wont help alone.

You CAN  bathe  them in warm wather, but be sure you dry them off, no draugh and warm in the room afterwards.

What dewormes do you have access too?  some may be used already.

Good luck!
 
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Sadly, the little one passed overnight. I did what I could but still feel terrible. I feel as though I failed her. She was the smallest, and had sort of stopped growing. She was very active and boisterous until yesterday evening.

A second one is in rapid decline now. This is the one that got chilled last week and I was able to bring him back around. He did well for a couple of days, but never really caught back up. He didn't gain weight and grow like the others and I noticed over the last few days he sort of stayed back from the others. Fingers crossed for him! I have him tucked into my bra right now. He's breathing, trying to purr, and squirming a little. Actually just mewed, and that's an improvement from the last hour. I don't know if that is good or if it's the tail end of things.

There's one more that I'm a bit worried about now. He also has been hanging back from the others and isn't as big. Some of the same as the two aforementioned kittens.

The last two are doing well. They're eating, gaining weight, growing, active, exploring, and seem to be developing well.

I'm not sure what could be going wrong with the ones not doing so well. I suspect part of it is not having the bond they would with their mother. There's something to be said for that kind of connection. It's not one I can really give them, sadly.
 

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You are doing everything correctly.  But you do have right, handrearing is more unsafe than a good mom.  Although better than a bad mom...   :)

Use a fleece for bedding.  Its not only good for their nails not fastening, but forumites wittness it apparently gives them some feeling of mom - screaming kittens get contend and stop screaming...

And you make a lot of friendly sounds to them - like mom may do.

Good luck!
 
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lovekats

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You are doing everything correctly.  But you do have right, handrearing is more unsafe than a good mom.  Although better than a bad mom...   :)

Use a fleece for bedding.  Its not only good for their nails not fastening, but forumites wittness it apparently gives them some feeling of mom - screaming kittens get contend and stop screaming...

And you make a lot of friendly sounds to them - like mom may do.

Good luck!
Thank you, again :) Yes, I've been using nothing but fleece and the ones that are doing well are doing fine with it. They move away from the warmer part where the heating pad is as they like, and I've seen them stretched out like little bosses ;)

The second little boy passed away this evening as he was tucked away in my bra. I had him there b/c even if I couldn't save him, I wanted to do my best to comfort him. He is the one that I almost lost last week too and never really bounced back. He was at first one of the bigger ones with a nice fat tummy. Then he took a turn. ....and here we are.

Of the three left, like I mentioned before, one is falling a little behind, and two are doing great. The female is a tuxedo-coat and she is something else! I found her snoozing on her back in the nest with not a care to be had. She's really a sweetie. The male that's also doing well is the biggest. He is starting to track things and pounce. He tackled his sister this afternoon. The other male that's lagging is getting around also, but something just isn't quite right with him. Fingers crossed!

I think back to the condition they were found in and realize that they had been alone in a field for over 24hrs and through a bad rain for another half day. There really is no telling how much bearing that has on their health today, but it may be playing a roll. I'm doing what I can for them and sadly, if they aren't going to make it, even my best efforts won't save them. I hate that it's that way, but without their mother, that's how it is.
 
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