possible genetic backround of black smoke and grey and white black smoke cats?

The greyish and white one and the blackish one are 10 month old brothers. The all grey one is the dad. The mother is an ordinary black and white.

The greyish and white one is COMPLETELY white underneath the areas where is is greyish.

The blackish one has a light grey undercoat only seen at certain angles and under certain lighting. Mostly on his neck.

My question is why would an all grey male and a black and white female produce two smoke cats? I dont know if u would consider the black an official smoke because he is grey underneath but like I said the grey and white is def a smoke because he is completely white underneath.

The father was very special. He was very strong, very dominant and very very active. He was all over my entire town. But still he was just all grey.

Any ideas on what the fathers backround might be and why an all grey male would produce smoke cats?

Do smokes always have smoke kittens? If not then what kind of genes would they pass on?

Also any extra info on smokes would be appreciated. I find the topic very interesting.

Hello and welcome to the Cat Site. I can't answer your questions about your cats, but I will try to get someone who can to answer your questions.

Thank you.

Any luck yet?

If you are 100% sure that the solid blue cat is the father of the two brothers, then it is genetically impossible that they are smokes. I would say they are solids with an unsound base color. Which is quite often seen in solid colored coat colors, especially solid blacks which can tend to have paler undercoats.

Smokes are basically solid silvers. That is, a solid kitten has the silver gene, and it is expressed by only the tips of the hairs being colored, with the rest of the hair shaft being pure white. Therefore, a smoke is a solid with a white undercoat. This is not to be confused with the paler undercoats sometimes occuring in solid coat colors.

For a cat to be a smoke it needs both the non-agouti gene - which is the gene which produces solid colored coats and the Inhibitor gene - which is the silver gene.

At least one of the parents must have the Inhibitor (I) gene - This silver gene is dominant and cannot be carried or skip generations.

Inhibitor (I) – a dominant gene that suppresses the development of pigment in the hair of the coat, typically producing hairs that are fully coloured only at the tip and have a silvery white base. It has greater effect on the lighter pigment in an agouti cat, removing the yellow colour and turning the base colour white or “silver”. In the case of a non-agouti cat the inhibitor removes colour from the base of the hair-shaft to produce a silvery white hair with a coloured tip, i.e a Smoke.

It might surprise you but, solid colored cats, whether they be blues or blacks, still have tabby genes. The gene for solid coat colors is recessive, and it acts by suppressing the tabby gene. This suppression can be total, or partial. That is why solid colored kittens often still have faint tabby markings visible. These usually disappear entirely when the adult coat comes in, sometimes they don't and this is called ghost tabby markings. It is normal for solid black cats to have greyish paler areas in the coats or undercoats, this is known as an unsound base color.

Well I know that the brother of the solid blue (father of my two boys) is a tabby who has a whiteish/light yellow base and light grey stripes. Could that mean that the solid Blue father does actually have silver tabby genes and thats why his kittens are smokes?

Like I said before I know that the black one may not be considered a smokw, but trust me I know what Im saying when I say that the grey and white one IS A SMOKE lol. He is entirely white underneath no doubt about it.

So I know for a fact the grey and white one is a smoke and for a fact the solid blue is the father so is there any explanation? Does the fact that the fathers brother was a light yellow/white tabby with grey stripes provide any clues?

also thank you very much for helping me figure this out. I just find it very interesting and want to figure out exactly whats going on [emoji]128522[/emoji]

Diamond said:

Well I know that the brother of the solid blue (father of my two boys) is a tabby who has a whiteish/light yellow base and light grey stripes. Could that mean that the solid Blue father does actually have silver tabby genes and thats why his kittens are smokes?

Click to expand...

No this does not mean he has the silver inhibitor gene - this means he has the agouti gene (which is the tabby gene)

A smoke requires the non - agouti gene - the gene responsible for solids colors.

Erm.... So that really doesn't help much lol :lol3:

Does you boy have this white under coat on the top of his head and on his legs and feet in his shorter fur ? Or is it just on the trunk of his body ?

Yes anywhere he has the dark grey color he has white underneath maybe u can tell from this pic



Also here is a pic of the solid blue fathers brother when he was a kitten

He is grown up but right now I only have a pic of him as a kitten.

Does it look like he has the silver (inhibitor) genes?

Diamond said:

Yes anywhere he has the dark grey color he has white underneath maybe u can tell from this pic

Screenshot_2014-08-29-17-37-31-1.png

• diamond
• Aug 31, 2014

Click to expand...

Hmmm..... I see what you mean Genetically he cannot be a smoke from his parentage. But I wonder if he has got some unusual genes interacting with each other to create this effect. I really don't know but this is all I can think of at the moment. He's certainly different but beautiful, you have one unusual boy

Diamond said:

Also here is a pic of the solid blue fathers brother when he was a kitten

He is grown up but right now I only have a pic of him as a kitten.

Does it look like he has the silver (inhibitor) genes?

Screenshot_2014-08-27-03-57-59-1.png

• diamond
• Aug 31, 2014

Click to expand...

No he is a beautiful cute blue tabby Silver tabbies have black stripes, where blue tabbies have grey/blue stripes

Well thank you very much for your help [emoji]128518[/emoji]

I guess mine actually arent technically smokes even tho I thought they were. The reason why I started this post was because it didnt make sense to me either lol.

I guess I will never find out exactly why the came out looking the way they did [emoji]128533[/emoji] I thought maybe the fathers brothers whiteish base might have had something to do with it.

Oh well I still learned alot from you so thanks!

Hey sorry to bring it up again.... lol

In these pics, the fathers bro as a kitten, u can see he is not just grey/blue with dark grey stripes but he has alot of pure white on his base color as well.

Is that normal for a blue tabby or can that be what contributed to my cat having a white undercoat?

Diamond said:

In these pics, the fathers bro as a kitten, u can see he is not just grey/blue with dark grey stripes but he has alot of pure white on his base color as well.

Is that normal for a blue tabby or can that be what contributed to my cat having a white undercoat?

Click to expand...

The white/creamy colors you can see is the base colour for the tabby markings. All blue tabbies have these shades of colour.

Blue tabbies come in any shade of blue from a light powder puff shade of blue tabby stripes with apricot base/ground color - this is classed as a warm blue tabby. To a dark steel shade of blue tabby stripes with almost white base/ground color - this is classed as a colder blue tabby.

wow u know so much! Very interesting.

Thank you for sharing this info I have learned a lot [emoji]128568[/emoji]

You have answered all my questions.

Interesting to hear the father has a tabby brother.  So he cant be a Russian Blue gone astray...  Altough he has some looks of RB.  He may have some parentage of RB, or he may be a twist of nature making him look as he does, we cannot know for nwo.  But pure RB he cant be. Not even of pet quality, as they say.

But, I see also the bro was a blue he too, although tabby.  So perhaps parentage not far back??

Hey StefanZ! Thanks for your insight.

Hers the story. We always assumed the father of my two boys is brothers with the blue tabby because we found them as kittens in the woods very near to each other and they were about the same size. So we have always assumed they were bros although it is "possible" there could have been multiple mothers in those woods. We just were lucky enough to catch those two and brought them back home and always assumed them to be brothers.

So since were not %100 sure they are def bros, what can that mean about the possible genetic backround of the solid blue (father of my boys)?

Do u think he can be a Russian Blue and if so would that explain why his kittens came out the way they did?

Thanks in advance [emoji]128521[/emoji]

Maybe these pics of the father of my 2 boys will help. I wonder if he was a Russian Blue stray...?

Can anyone tell if there is anything about the father that would lead to his kittens being smokes or resemble smokes? Or do u guys think it just happened at random?

Thanks