Cat Introduction Woes

Well I just heard quite a bit of growling from Tempest.

We were in the office (as usual hahaha), and Tempest started making her attention wanting cries. After a few minutes, she quieted. THen I suddenly heard her right behind me - she'd come all the way out, down the hall and was on her way into the office to join us!!

The funny thing was that SInbad heard the little sound she made right behind me too, and he acted on instinct, he zoomed right out of the office, zipped past her and flew up the stairs to sit outside her room. She calmly waited for him to fly by, then wandered into the office and settled in to hang out with hubby. We were sort of flabbergasted. Both that she'd come all the way out like that, and that Sinbad had raced right past her without even seeing her.

Anyway, eventually Sinbad gave up looking for her in her room, and he came to the office too.

They both hung out in there with us for quite a while!! She's clearly just fine with him in the same room - right up until he decided to get some snuggles.

First, she tried hissing. But as I have mentioned previously I believe, he does not recognize hissing as any kind of warning or anything so he ignored it and kept coming. It turned into growls until my husband stepped in to prevent a cat fight on his desk (since that's where she was sitting at the time), and she hissed and growled at my husband. At that point Sinbad darted at her, so he threw a heavy shirt on Sinbad, scooped up Tempest and brought her back to her room.

I think it was overall positive? I am certainly super stressed out. But there wasn't actually a fight, even though there would have been one if my husband hadn't stepped in - but still, it seems like a positive that he was able to cut it off so easily. And it was certainly awesome that she came all the way out like that and hung out ok until he tried for actual contact. I hope she keeps coming out, although I'll admit that for the next few weeks, every time we leave the house I'm going to be afraid of coming home to find the two of them clawed and bleeding.

It is a real problem that Sinbad doesn't recognize hissing or growling as back off warnings. But then, if he did, I guess this thread wouldn't be so long and still active after all this time.

Another interesting thing that did happen is that she decided chasing Sinbad's tail through the gate (this was before she came out) is more important than treats. She preferred to pounce at Sinbad's tail rather than eat her treats this morning.

@cat nap Thank you.   I was happy to get some shots of her close up that weren't her posing like a little diva. It's difficult for me to get good, interesting shots of Tempest because she usually stops what she's doing when she sees the camera to pose.

@Losna   These most recent photographs of Tempest are amazing, very professional looking and any one of them would make a wonderful card or calander picture.  You have captured her expressions brilliantly.  I wish you had posted in the cats having fun contest with the feathers before the entry date ran out as they are real competition winners in lots of ways.   Then that got me to thinking about earlier photos you have posted in this thread:  post 113 was certainly a good candidate for this month's contest.   I hope you enter in future months as you have a real gift for composition as well as subject (because Tempest and Sinbad are excellent kitty models) and timing.  I usually get a blurred, disappearing tail or ear in action shots.  LoL  

It does sound like your pair are starting to relax around each other and choosing to spend time in the same space is a good indicator.  Your patience and willingness to arrange your home to accommodate the safety boundaries they needed has definitely paid off here.

@MServant Thanks to you, too.   The first one is actually rather a triumph for me ... Tempest is a bit of an oddball in that I often see her staring adoringly at my husband - but only when he can't see her. She'll turn her head so he can't see her face, then peek at him with this happy expression, or hide somewhere and then stare out at him... He has always sort of scoffed when I tell him about it, but I managed to snap that picture of her doing it this morning. muahahahaha!! I love it because usually she is very restrained and sort of solemn, but in these you can really see her smile. She only smiles like that when my husband is around.

Unfortunately Sinbad has made it clear to her that he considers me to be his person, so while she enjoys time with me, she is never quite fully relaxed because she's always on the lookout for him. Although she has been turning this to her advantage by making noises designed to call me up there... because Sinbad is sure to follow and then she can bump noses with him while I am watching and get treats. It's so funny when Sinbad is sleeping too soundly to follow me up, because she jumps on the floor and just looks behind me trying to find him... Then she gets annoyed when she realizes he's not coming too and stalks off in a huff.

They are both happy right now. We went to the consignment shop looking for bookshelves and found a set of stools for $5 - an absolutley AMAZING price!! FIVE solid maple barstools for $5!!! (The shop clerk was shocked too and went into the computer system to double check the price.) And also a little bench. We have put the stools around the house for them to jump on, and the bench beneath the picture window in the office. It actually fits perfectly, which is pretty amazing.

They love them, and Sinbad actually stays off my computer now. Huzzah.

Having seen them in the same room earlier makes me hopeful that eventually they will be able to share the bench and watch the birds in the yard together.

Losna said:

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They both hung out in there with us for quite a while!! She's clearly just fine with him in the same room - right up until he decided to get some snuggles.

First, she tried hissing. But as I have mentioned previously I believe, he does not recognize hissing as any kind of warning or anything so he ignored it and kept coming. It turned into growls until my husband stepped in to prevent a cat fight on his desk (since that's where she was sitting at the time), and she hissed and growled at my husband. At that point Sinbad darted at her, so he threw a heavy shirt on Sinbad, scooped up Tempest and brought her back to her room.

I think it was overall positive? I am certainly super stressed out. But there wasn't actually a fight, even though there would have been one if my husband hadn't stepped in - but still, it seems like a positive that he was able to cut it off so easily. And it was certainly awesome that she came all the way out like that and hung out ok until he tried for actual contact. I hope she keeps coming out, although I'll admit that for the next few weeks, every time we leave the house I'm going to be afraid of coming home to find the two of them clawed and bleeding.

It is a real problem that Sinbad doesn't recognize hissing or growling as back off warnings. But then, if he did, I guess this thread wouldn't be so long and still active after all this time.

Another interesting thing that did happen is that she decided chasing Sinbad's tail through the gate (this was before she came out) is more important than treats. She preferred to pounce at Sinbad's tail rather than eat her treats this morning.

@cat nap Thank you.   I was happy to get some shots of her close up that weren't her posing like a little diva. It's difficult for me to get good, interesting shots of Tempest because she usually stops what she's doing when she sees the camera to pose.

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Hey @Losna   If you can ever get a full on clear 'head tilt' photograph of Tempest, I'd love to see it.  I know it would be difficult though, because you'd probably be too busy laughing and admiring the scene. It's probably too quick as well, and you'll have to catch the shot by accident...since I doubt that Tempest would actually stop and pose like that. 

Actually I think it's a very positive thing that the whole hissing, growling incident happened right in front of you on your husband's desk.  I know that it would make both you and hubby more stressed but actually if you think about it, I find the cat fights that I don't actually see to be more troublesome, because I don't really know what happened, ...who seemed to start it...what was the trigger...how long...etc.  (But yes, I would be totally stressed, too, if the cats just start to cat fight...at every meeting.)

Your two don't sound like this any more.  It sounds like when Tempest wants to hang out and chill, then Sinbad wants to play, snuggle.

I think what you should try next is that when they again try to go at it...meaning Tempest growls...is annoyed and Sinbad does not get the message...then exactly like your husband did you protect the cat that did not move from the other one who approached...with a shirt or towel blocking Sinbad's advance...but then pick up Sinbad...and bring him to opposite end of room and quietly settle him down.  See what happens next.  If Sinbad approaches again...then repeat the separation...but no need for picking up Tempest and removing her.  Since she is high, up on the desk...or if you can even put her higher...in a safe spot...but still in the room.  This way, neither cat goes away...unless they actually want to.

But then change it up...and when Tempest growls...pipe her down...with something like "hey, hey, enough of that now"...or..."no one's going to start anything here".. .idk...whatever works...But this time Tempest is the one that gets the lecture..but no actual movement...more of a soothing her down...to a non-growling state.  If Tempest does not settle...then she gets to be moved.  This way, neither cat thinks one will always be removed.  (Worse case scenario is that they both don't settle...and then yes...at this point, one of them will have to go out of the room.  But I would alternate which that cat is, showing the cats that both behaviours are not wanted by either humans.  Hardest part is the watching the cats part, and the not being stressed part.)

Honestly, you are doing fine...and like you said before...they will both get there in their own time frame.  I often try one approach, and if that does not work...try another...but in all fairness, the animals tend to work certain things out on their own, and before you know it, they're sitting, laying, lounging, close to each other.  I guess their trust in one another, develops over time, too.       

Update Time:

Today was a very hectic day. I don't know what it was, but something terrified Sinbad for most of the day. He was running around the house making sounds that I can only describe as cries of terror. Just blindly running, as though he was hunting for a safe spot and not finding one. I don't have any idea what was causing it.   All I was able to do was catch him when he tired himself out, carry him up to the bedroom, build a tent with the bedsheets over my knees and let him hide curled up on my feet. But that only lasted for a brief time before he was out again, panicking and bawling. So I spent the whole day trying to figure out what was causing his fear (I am still clueless unfortunately), scooping him up, and letting him cuddle over and over. I was super stressed out and still have a very nasty headache.

Tempest was very concerned for him. According to my husband, she was very attentive to Sinbad's cries, and actually looking worried.

Sinbad eventually settled down, thankfully, and he curled up in a little cubby on one of the bookshelves that we've left empty for them and fell asleep.

I don't know if his fear had anything to do with it, but for the very first time ever, Tempest actually came out of her room while my husband was away and stayed out to let me pet her!! Up until now, while she has ventured out of her room when my husband was not home, she's always immediately run back in the moment I saw her. So this is very exciting!! She came out, stayed out, and let me pet her without my husband around!!

So while very little has changed in relation to Tempest and Sinbad directly getting along since my last post, I am very excited. I continue to feel that the key is getting her comfortable in the house, and this is a clear indication that she is feeling more at home.

Hi @losna, I am no expert and have only had cats since June.  Added cat 2 in Feb.. I had a hard time getting her to explore more of the house (I also took her downstairs while K1 was napping) , so I called my sister who has had cats most of her life and she suggested getting K2 to eat downstairs by slowly moving the cat dish close to the stairs, then to the landing, then the bottom,  you get the idea.  So over the course of the week I was amazed to see that this actually worked.  It expanded her territory within the house.  Apparently her room had become her territory and that may be why the big fights happen in Tempest's room. I know you worry about Sinbad eating Tempest's food, but since she is a climber and he isn't, I thought you could put her food up high in the same room as his.

My other thought for you, is to remind you how clever your cats are. You are teaching them to interact for treats and they are learning how to get more and more.  Have you tried this in the office while they are both there without the gate between them?  My two cats (kittens?) played rough together the first couple of weeks.  I separated them each time the hissing and swipes started by banishing one to a room (the cat cave) which both like so if wasn't so much a punishment but a time out. Sometimes it was the cat who initiated the play who decided it was too much!  After a while they stopped  getting too rough and learned to ease up when playing.  So I think at some point your cats need to get too rough so they learn each other's tolerence level.  You also said you can't get between them, my sister also said a loud noise like a clap or knocking on a wall or something will startle the cats and that might be enough to stop them.

Have you tried playing with both at the same time with a wand toy on each side of the gate?  

I know you have said it isn't a good idea to walk Sinbad outside.  Can you walk him in your yard?  When Eclipse, currently over 12 lbs, has too much energy for Fluffy (K2) currently 9lbs+, 9 mths old and growing, I take him out to explore on a leash and harness.  I started taking him out when he was 3 months old and it did take him some time getting use to it.  Even just walking him in the yard burns off lots of energy - different smells, sounds, textures, mental stimulation.  I recently planted some cat mint to replace a day lily and he enjoys chewing on it.  Eclipse also has times he doesn't like to be out - rush hour (am & pm) w/ loud noisy cars driving down the street, when the neighbors' grandkids are in the yard yelling and running around, dogs in the area barking,  early afternoon when it is too hot and sunny.  He also has his absolutely favorite time, Dusk!  Not my favorite time LOL. He's tried to chase a possum, a skunk, saw a racoon and of course the neighborhood cats.  

I loved reading your thread - took me most of yesterday.  I think your cats are making great progress.

Oh wow, poor Sinbad.  I hate to think what startled him that much.  I hope he is now settled and nothing happened since.  Good to hear things continue to move forwards, all be it at a slow pace.   It sounds like they are starting to get to know each other, and lovely that Tempest has a protective instinct with Sinbad.

@Losna -- how are your sinbad and tempest doing?

@mickNsnicks2mom   Ah, sorry, been distracted and not online much the past few weeks!

Sinbad still wants to snuggle, Tempest still wants to not be snuggled. My hubby spaced the other day and left the anti-Sinbad shelf defense off the top of the gate, and Sinbad invaded Tempest's room. So Tempest spent 2 days mostly hiding and hissing at him. But her recovery is happening super quickly, which is good. The periods of time between her coming out are getting shorter and shorter, with each time also having shorter periods of her hiding in fear immediately after being chased. So while they are behaving in mostly the same way they always have, her confidence seems to be growing if that timing is any indication.

I guess the summary is continued incremental improvements, but still no interactions other than chase/flee without the gate separating them. Although I did spend about an hour in Tempest's room yesterday with no temper tantrums from Sinbad, which was great.

We are also seeing more and more indications that she is coming out at night/when no one is around. She stole the treat bag and carried it into her room, we find her toys strewn around the landing, various assorted items vanish and reappear in her room, etc.

I hope this post is intelligible, I didn't get much sleep last night. Our schedule was disrupted yesterday so Sinbad didn't finish his dinner ... then in his infinite feline wisdom decided that he couldn't finish without my company, so he woke me up at 3am to go sit with him while he ate the last bits in his food bowl. He's very upset that Tempest has been so afraid, and on some level he seems to realize that he's the one who did it, even if he doesn't understand how. So they've both needed lots of social time. 

I continue to have hope though. Tempest very clearly worries about him when something is wrong with him, and as time goes on her demonstrations of concern are growing stronger. So there is an emotional bond there, it's just his inability to read feline communication causes problems when they interact directly.

Nice to see an upate - it does sound like progress is continuing which is great.  What a relief that Tempest survived Sinbad's invasion the other day and her confidence still seems to be increasing.  It is hard not to feel more than a little sympathy for your little cuddler but I am sure he makes the most of cuddles with you and your husband and isn't suffering too badly. 

I had to laugh when reading about Tempest's little night time raids in to the rest of the house and how things mysteriously move about.      I swear cats know all about black holes and object transportation (as well as their own), otherwise there is no explanation for how cat toys and cats themselves vanish and reappear in the most unpredictable of places.      Tempest sounds like a master of the art!

@Losna -- 'continued incremental improvements' sounds good, much better than a setback. 

@MServant She is definitely sneaky like ninja. And crazy agile. Tomorrow the hubby is going to take her into the office for a while so I can thoroughly clean out her room, upending the furniture and everything to look for stolen items.

@mickNsnicks2mom   Yeah! 

Oh - I forgot to mention .. they are picking up each other's quirks. One of the funnier things they've traded is the 'machine gun click.'  Sinbad will rapid fire this weird clicking sound at anything that catches his attention. Birds or squirrels outside, toys, food, Tempest ... anything that he wants to interact with that is out of reach, he'll clickclickclickclickclickclickclickclick ... it seriously sounds like a toy machine gun. And he'll just sit there doing it for as long as he can see the object he wants. About a week or two ago - Tempest started doing it!!   

She used to stalk bugs super silently like a true ninja ... but now the moment she sees a bug she launches into an excited stream of clicks, just the way Sinbad does. It is so hilarious. Of course, this never fails to draw his attention ... so you have Tempest stalking and clicking at the bug like she's imitating Sinbad, and Sinbad glued to the fence clicking at Tempest ... it's just super funny.   

Losna said:

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She used to stalk bugs super silently like a true ninja ... but now the moment she sees a bug she launches into an excited stream of clicks, just the way Sinbad does. It is so hilarious. Of course, this never fails to draw his attention ... so you have Tempest stalking and clicking at the bug like she's imitating Sinbad, and Sinbad glued to the fence clicking at Tempest ... it's just super funny. 

 

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       Love it.    Your guys are fun. 

I wonder if anyone can explain what this new behavior means...

I find this rather puzzling. So Sinbad flung himself at the gate just now, in one of his enthusiastic displays. That's normal. Tempest hissed and clawed at him, this, too, is normal.

But this time, he actually backed down.  As I watched, she hissed, he backed up and started leaving. Awesome, I thought. He's finally starting to learn!! But then .. she did something strange. She paused, watched him leaving, then threw herself at the gate, shoving both front paws through it as far as she could, and waved them around in the air until he came back.  This repeated a few times while I watched. She'd hiss, he'd back away, she'd fling herself at the gate and wave her paws through the holes until he came back. At which point she'd hiss again and claw at him until he left. 

Admittedly it might not be new, I just happened to be close enough to see everything this time from the beginning. Usually my approach causes both of them to back away and stop what they're doing. But now I am wondering if all of my previous interpretations of what I've seen of their encounters has been incorrect - has she been teaching him to ignore her hissing? 

Can anyone offer any insight on this? 

@Losna -- could it be that tempest is teaching sinbad her 'boundaries'? and maybe trying to show sinbad that while she does like him and enjoy playing with him/being in his company, when she is uncomfortable with something sinbad does or simply wants a little alone time he needs to learn to recognize her 'signals' -- to please give her a little space for a bit......? maybe tempest is teaching sinbad to understand 'cat'.

@mickNsnicks2mom   That's what my husband thinks.. though I'm still confused as to how that teaches him anything but 'hissing means playing.'

First I have to appoligize because I couldn't help laughing at your description @Losna           Your cats are hilarious!

It actually sounds like cat-play to me, but with the safety of the gate between them.    Could be wrong and fur might still fly and then both hide at oposite ends of your home for a year if they did meet and have a kitty tussle, but I can't see any other reason why Tempest would repeat an action that got Sinbad to return unless that was what she wanted him to do.   

You don't have to apologize, @MServant  Tempest does look really funny with both her front legs poking all the way through the holes in the gate. I keep wanting to get cameras to constantly record what she gets up to. 

But there's no play when they get face to face. She is still terrified of him when there's no gate and flees.  

LoL, yes, the flees are pretty understandable!  I don't think I'd go near Sinbad when he's got flees either....  I am such a bad cat mom, no unconditional love here where flee bites are concerned.  

I meant Tempest  flees at the sight of Sinbad, not that Sinbad has fleas.   

I am so terrified of fleas. I bought a carpet rake, I rake and vacuum the carpets every other day, as well as keeping both of them brushed so I can keep an eye out. Sinbad loves being brushed so much we bought him one of those huge giant brush gloves. He rolls around so adorably when I brush him with it.