Cat Introduction Woes

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losna

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@cat nap   Sounds like you think giving Sinbad a snuggle buddy would be helpful. 
 My big fear is bringing in a third cat and then Tempest finding herself besieged by 2 instead of 1.

But my husband and I are suckers for hard luck cases. And this poor little guy had his beloved sister taken away and was left behind. 
 

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@cat nap   Sounds like you think giving Sinbad a snuggle buddy would be helpful. 
 My big fear is bringing in a third cat and then Tempest finding herself besieged by 2 instead of 1.

But my husband and I are suckers for hard luck cases. And this poor little guy had his beloved sister taken away and was left behind. 
You both sound like a wonderful and caring couple, and really good cat parents...so I have no worries that Tempest will find herself "besieged".
..but rather, I still believe that she will see all the cuddling, and will want to join the crew.  If not for cuddles, then just to be in the same room.  It will take off all the pressure and focus on her, and she will have two rascals to watch, instead of one.
  I cannot wait for the update, after the weekend, is over. 
 
 
 

mservant

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@Losna  I have not lost interest in Sinbad and Tempest but been MIA with family stuff going on this past week, and especially the last couple of days.  The recent information posted about how they will sit so close as long as Sinbad is not able to jump straight in and snuggle etc is really intersting, and he really does sound like he is desperate for close bonding and contact.  Funny you have fallen for this third little kitty as to me it sounds like it could be just the thing your fur family needs - another snuggler for Sinbad to latch on to - as long as he does not feel he is loosing his humans.  If Tempest is content with the company of cats but not the intensity of Sinbad's approaches, this could be perfect for all of them.  You will never know if you don't try, and as you all sound so stressed out at the moment it would be difficult to get too much harder (
 ) .  

Still think clicker training might help Sinbad, but also wonder if you have tried very gradual separation training with him - like other side of door type experiences starting almost with seconds and increasing very gradually so he can learn that you do come back and there is a positive reward of some sort when you do.
 
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losna

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We went out for a bit and I came back to find that a bathrobe is almost as good as a mommy!


 

@MServant   It's why I keep fluctuating between hopeful and frustrated/stressing. She is clearly not intrinsically hostile to him anymore, because they will interact just fine through the gate. I keep trying to catch the expression that she makes when she spies his tail for pouncing on camera, but it's a very fleeting expression so I haven't managed it yet. It is adorable. And when he's sick, it's very clear that she worries about him. She really does seem to almost stand vigil.

She just doesn't want his cuddles, and he goes straight for them every time they come direct face to face.

@cat nap   You will make me blush. 


We're still not sure about adopting a third cat. But it is true that even my husband is weakening and has commented several times about how much I seem to really love Tommy. We even started pondering what we'd rename him to match Sinbad and Tempest..... Squall is what we'd come up with if we ever got a third cat, but it doesn't suit him at all. You two thinking it would be helpful seems to bolster it, I must admit...

But we'll see what happens tomorrow. He could be adopted. He is a sweetheart after all, and thus far every cat that my husband has spent time trying to comfort has been adopted pretty quickly. It's as though he has a magic feline Cupid's wand. 
 
 

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I may be about to make things more complicated... or possibly easier... HAH!

We went to the shelter today and I fell in love with a little boy. He's a poor little guy who is the survivor of a split bonded pair. He had Sinbad's body language so much that if you switch out the furs they could have been the same cat.  We didn't want a third cat, but I just wanted to steal him and take him home so we may try the foster for a week experiment with him if he isn't adopted this weekend and seeing how he and Sinbad interact

Apparently he and his sister were cuddlers, and his sister was the outgoing one. So he's a little bit shy, likes to cuddle with other cats, and is used to be pushed around by an overeager snuggler. So he may well solve the problems...... maybe? But I am worried about bringing another cat into this mix. What do you think?


What a beautiful face this kitty has.
 
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losna

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My husband's magic feline Cupid's wand struck again. Tommy was adopted 10 minutes before we went in. I'm happy for Tommy but sad for me.   
 


They didn't have any other cats who had even a small chance of turning into snuggle buddies with Sinbad, alas. Vicky told me that as much as they'd love to give us another cat, she thinks it's best to wait for the perfect cat for Sinbad. I can't really disagree with that logic, so back to trying to figure out a way to get Tempest and Sinbad to get along with each other.

The third gate isn't working - Tempest was making it very clear that she does not like losing the ability to climb out when she wants it, and Sinbad has been aggressively attacking the gates since it went up. So things have been even worse today than they've been in a long time. My husband went to the hardware store and picked up some wood - he's going to build a platform to put on top of the gates to create a 'lip' on the outside. Tempest can jump up that high and land on ledges, but Sinbad still can only climb. 

Here's to hoping that will work.
 

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I can only imagine your mixed feelings about Tommy's adoption though I know if it was me I would be struggling if I had had my heart on another kitty and not been able to bring him home.   Lots of big positibe
 for Tommy in his new home and for you finding some way to find balance between Sinbad and Tempest's purrsonalities.   It sounds like you have put this energy in to a positive focus and with Sinbad's current jumping ability I hope this will give Tempest a little freedom for now.   Will this arrangemenr also allow Tempest to go out in to the rest of the house and then bolt back to her safe space if she wants to?  I am assuming so.
 
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losna

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I did cry. 

But I took a calculated risk - they would have held him if I'd called last night and asked. But any cat we take at this point would not be a permanent cat until we've seen how it interacts with Sinbad - and my allergies. There another cat I was pondering, but I had a really bad reaction to her so had to scrap that idea. So I think that it is better to allow them to go with people who are taking them home for certain. If that means that I cry, then so be it, I guess. 

He built a removable  shelf that fits around the doorframe. Sinbad can't jump, only climb. So while she can easily clear that shelf (she is a crazy amazing jumper), he can't get up. She liked to sit on top of the gate, on the tiny 1" wide strip, hopefully this shelf will do for her too. She can come and go, the only question is will she.


But something needs to be done.  He's depressed and she's afraid of him. It's a complete regression.  I just don't know what more to do. I guess I should have asked them to hold Tommy for us. 
 
 

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For what it's worth, I think you did the right thing, with Tommy.  You could not be certain that he would get along with Sinbad, and this way, like you said, he is in his forever home. 
 


What about, taking a break from the introductions, and working with Sinbad on his "separation fears" ..(like MServant mentioned, in small increments of time).  Perhaps, working with Sinbad on something new,  will ease Sinbad's fears, and result in him being more relaxed and calm.  It could be that his anxiety of always wanting you nearby, transfers into his actions of always wanting to snuggle... (like a coping mechanism),... and if he could be made to feel less anxiety, then maybe his need to snuggle would lessen.  
 
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mservant

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All way too stressful.  
    

That gate and shelf look amazing though and it sounds like it gives Tempest what she needs: a way to watch and get out if she wants and a way back to safety if she needs it.   I think what Cat nap says about trying to address Sinbad's sereration anxiety in the mean time sounds like the best thing you can be doing - along with looking for another snuggler who might help Sinbad too.

All fingers and toes crossed for you here.  
 
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losna

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Funny you just posted, @MServant   I was just coming with an update!

@cat nap   We've been working on Sinbad's separation anxiety since adopting him. It developed/showed itself the second day we had him. He's much better now - I can actually leave the house now without him panicking (though I do have to let him know I'm leaving - we're currently working on getting him to understand that even if I don't tell him I'll come back, I will). 
  He still has nightmares and wakes me up crying, but when it's the middle of the night and he'd fallen asleep somewhere else, he's now able to remember that he has a mommy who will snuggle him and after a few minutes he'll stop and run to curl up next to me. That is also good - for months when that happened he'd just panic where he was and be unable to do anything except cry until I went and got him. It was like he'd regressed into a helpless baby state. 

But! I do have good news! That's what I came here to post.

First, the shelf is indeed helping. We've not seen her actually on it yet, but she's stopped whining and yowling, and he is no longer attacking the gate. SO three cheers for that.

Second, we re-evaluated how we've been treating her. For a long time we were leaving her to come out on her own pace, since that's what all the guides I've seen have said. But it struck me after this weekend that those guides are mostly focused on introducing cats. They have been introduced. They're friendly when there's a gate between them - the issue now is not getting them non-aggressive, it's getting her comfortable with the house so she'll come out, and getting him to stop charging for cuddles.

We decided to focus for now on getting her comfortable with the house. I took him into the bedroom with me, and shut the door, and my hubby took Tempest out of her room. And wow! It might be this is what we should have been doing. I came out at one point because Sinbad was sleeping.. and I really wish the batteries on the camera hadn't been dead!! Tempest was like an entirely different cat. She was running around exploring excitedly, rolling on the carpet like a happy little kitten, and in general just looking super happy. When I came into the room and she saw me, she gave this excited little jump and ran over to me to present her tummy for belly rubs.

I say little jump, but it was nearly 2 feet into the air. For her, that's a little jump though. Vicky warned us that she can jump onto the fridge! I'd thought that was exaggeration, but at this point I'm really starting to wonder/be afraid... 


She did avoid the places that are Sinbad's preferred napping spots. But I don't see that as a bad thing, and I've built so many little hidey sleepy holes for them it doesn't matter; there are plenty of places left for her to claim. She eventually curled up on a pair of my husband's pants that he'd left for her if she needed comfort and took a nap. 

All in all it went much better than we had any cause to expect. Hopefully as we keep doing this she'll grow more and more comfortable and come out on her own. The goal is to get her comfortable enough to just smack Sinbad when he tries to cuddle, rather than fleeing. I have seen her smack him through the gate when he gets too rambunctious and he always backs off when she does that, so I don't think that's an unrealistic goal to work toward.
 

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    (I think this needs a banana dance).  
  Brilliant update!   Of course, you know your cats best and it sounds like you have made a real break through here.  You have to get that camera of yours charged up though.  
   Mind you, a nice chilled out first investigation is probably what Tempest needed.   I hope you manage this a few more times without Sinbad waking up and escaping.  Now it's me that feels like 
 but for a good reason, Tempest getting more relaxed and a glipse of what her life could be like if she gets to feel safer in Sinbad's company.
 
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losna

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Here is a picture of Tempest the flying cat, just to give you an idea of her aerial nature. I built her a box condo that reaches nearly to the ceiling, and she loves to climb it so much we put her cat bed on the very top. I am currently in the process of completely re-arranging the house, to make room for more cat trees in the hopes that if she starts seeing more cool places to climb appearing she'll want to come out even more.

 

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Your last update, also brought short tears to my eyes, but of the super happy kind.
   I really wanted to see more photos of Tempest, and now there is a huge smile across my face, along with some added cheers that Tempest will be able to enjoy exploring other parts of the house.
(what an amazing action-packed photo) 

@Losna I was on another thread yesterday, in which a member had posted about her two cats fighting, and just wanting to know if it was real fighting or play.  She posted a video, and even though, your 2 cats are different, the video is helpful, for all us members, since it shows how things may look in actual rough play.  It is here if you want to see it....and it involves a lot of swatting... http://www.thecatsite.com/t/292717/are-my-cats-fighting-uploaded-video#post_3695925   (you reminded me of it, when you mentioned that Tempest's smacks Sinbad through the gate...and that he always backs off, too.  
)
 
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@cat nap  @MServant   Yeah, I was super happy too, and so was my husband. He was just standing there watching her with a super happy smile on his face. He just put her back in her room, and she actually didn't want to go back in! Usually when he takes her out she jumps back in as quickly as she can whenever he brings her back. This time was almost cute - she'd put her paws on the shelf and was pushing back and squirming.

She is tough to photograph though, for 2 reasons. She rarely holds still. I have to put the camera on the fastest action speed setting and she still comes out as blurs most of the time. OR she spots the camera and I get the same shot I always get of her because she runs over to pose. 
Here is one I took the other day. It's similar to that pose of hers, but since you said you want to see more I'll post it too, really big! because I like it a lot.


 I'm just so excited. I'd expected her to be scared and nervous, not happy and eager. I'd thought Sinbad was a happy cat, but she was just radiating excitement. Here's to hoping it continues going this well, and that's what she'll be like as a matter of course!!! 
 
 

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LoL, ever thought that it might be the pet tiger you have that might have been stressing Tempest? 
    That toy (or at least I hope it is) in the top photo is very realistic!!!

Beautiful photos, as ever @Losna.    They are such pretty cats I imagine I would have my camera out the whole time - then Tempest would be afraid of the camera and not Sinbad's cuddles. 


It sounds like that adventure out in to the rest of the house without the worries of Sinbad's dangerous cuddles has done Tempest a world of good.  Very much hoping you see some real changes in her over the coming days and her confidence with Sinbad starts to build.
 
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losna

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@MServant   
Thanks for the compliment! Though I look at the cat pics I take and grumble about how they need work.  I'm much better with insects, I have a hard time focusing properly on larger subjects. This pic of Tempest, for example, the focal point is the green ball, not Tempest. 
 If you argue I'll send you a PM filled with butterflies, BE WARNED!!! 


@Stewball   No, he was relaxing after working out. He started reading and she curled up on top of him. Shortly after I took that pic she fell asleep and napped for a while. It was pretty cute and funny.  She really loves my hubby.
 

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[thread="283930"]Cat Introduction Woes/90#post_3696681
@Losna   Just think about the fact that he still has you,..the fox,...the bathrobe (to cuddle with), 
  your husband, a warm bed, plenty of toys, and people to play with.[/thread][thread="283930"]Cat Introduction Woes/90#post_3696681Stewball is right, too, it did look like your hubby was doing extra push-ups...and then got a nice back massage from Tempest. 
 [/thread][thread="283930"]Cat Introduction Woes/90#post_3696681  [/thread][thread="283930"]Cat Introduction Woes/90#post_3696681(Did you just say, that you take photos of butterflies?...well, I shall await for that butterfly thread in 'Cats and Other Animals" then. I'd love to see some butterfly photos, over there, too.)[/thread]
 
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