My 12 year old chubby cat has suddenly lost her appetite and is sleeping constantly

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catwoman707

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Oh my gosh, I am feeling overwhelmed right now. 

I'm sure it's me, as I read through the awesome detailed posts it brought me to tears.

Sorry, I have to go regroup myself and will be back.

Thanks so much for all of your help.

Okay I'm not going anywhere, I got my grip, just needed a few minutes.

So I need to break this down a bit, because yes, I am bawling and am def. overwhelmed. I would go to the ends of the earth to fix my girl, yet it's making the food that gets me, I just can't grasp it all.

(post menopause is to blame!....true.....) I read it and get lost. SO many questions.

Is there a specific brand/type of raw food that I can buy and cook, add some supplements to and work on her this way?

Don't I need to worry about what she is getting to get the inflammation down?

Laurie, you said that her ultrasound report looks more like IBD to you? Then why all the other inflammation? Pancreas, lymph nodes? Thickened bowel loops? Is the thickened bowel loops IBD?

The more I've considered my vet's advice, honestly, I don't think she is all that good at this kind of health problem. She's just too undecided.

It's too big of a deal and she is too precious to me to be fooling around with it. That's how I feel we are doing, so I do need to get it resolved on my own. (with lots of help here!!!)

Do I now NOT worry so much about one single novel protein anymore? 

I can get her back on timed meals, what a pain, can't believe I did this before and was thrilled at accomplishing it, and now right back to square one again.

So timed meals, got it.

If I know what food I should buy and supplements to add, then I can work this in, she is just going to have to accept it, for her own darn good. (yeah right, who's the boss?!)

I am ready to hit amazon for the nexabiotic and slippery elm bark powder. Is that for inflammation btw? Is there anything else I need to order from there before I place the order?
 
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kitty80911

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I have a Siamese who is pre-diabetic and has food allergies. If it wasn't hard enough to feed him the right food with just one problem he is also very picky. I went through brand after brand of dried food and prescription diets with no real results for his allergies. We finally found one that didn't cause him to pull out his hair. We then had a scare when I found him cold, sluggish and limping one morning. Took him to a vet in my neighborhood who takes walkins and there he stayed for three days. They told me that he was prediabetic and will most likely become diabetic at some point down the road. He needed a food change as his one food that helped his allergies was also high in carbs. Thankfully I found a fix a lot faster the second time around and it's one of the cheapest at fifty cents a can. Sheba brand pate. It's pretty much all meat and it's cooked in natural juices instead of gravy which is high in carbs. I'm sure there's better food out there for the average cat but he isn't the average cat. And one more plus is he has steadily lost weight and is no longer an overweight kitty.
 

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Oh I almost forgot. We also leave him some evo weight management dry food which is low in carbs to snack on but he barely touches it for more than a snack. He loves the Sheba food and eats it all up. His weight is down and he looks and acts like he did when he was 2.
 

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There are some articles at the top of the raw and homecooked forum that have some good info in them  http://www.thecatsite.com/f/65/raw-home-cooked-cat-food    I use Alnutrin premix.  It has calcium in it but no liver.  There are premixes that have liver in them but it's either chicken or beef neither of which are an option for me.  I use freeze dried liver that is actually sold as treats for the liver source.  

With homecooked you will need a calcium source since you can't use cooked bone.  To me it's easier to get it in a premix.  I know you can also use egg shell. 
 

micknsnicks2mom

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Oh my gosh, I am feeling overwhelmed right now. 

I'm sure it's me, as I read through the awesome detailed posts it brought me to tears.

Sorry, I have to go regroup myself and will be back.

Thanks so much for all of your help.

Okay I'm not going anywhere, I got my grip, just needed a few minutes.

So I need to break this down a bit, because yes, I am bawling and am def. overwhelmed. I would go to the ends of the earth to fix my girl, yet it's making the food that gets me, I just can't grasp it all.

(post menopause is to blame!....true.....) I read it and get lost. SO many questions.

Is there a specific brand/type of raw food that I can buy and cook, add some supplements to and work on her this way?

Don't I need to worry about what she is getting to get the inflammation down?

Laurie, you said that her ultrasound report looks more like IBD to you? Then why all the other inflammation? Pancreas, lymph nodes? Thickened bowel loops? Is the thickened bowel loops IBD?

The more I've considered my vet's advice, honestly, I don't think she is all that good at this kind of health problem. She's just too undecided.

It's too big of a deal and she is too precious to me to be fooling around with it. That's how I feel we are doing, so I do need to get it resolved on my own. (with lots of help here!!!)

Do I now NOT worry so much about one single novel protein anymore? 

I can get her back on timed meals, what a pain, can't believe I did this before and was thrilled at accomplishing it, and now right back to square one again.

So timed meals, got it.

If I know what food I should buy and supplements to add, then I can work this in, she is just going to have to accept it, for her own darn good. (yeah right, who's the boss?!)

I am ready to hit amazon for the nexabiotic and slippery elm bark powder. Is that for inflammation btw? Is there anything else I need to order from there before I place the order?
i understand, this is all a lot to take in/absorb, along with your continuing concerns about your krissy.

i'm going to have to leave recommendations for commercial raw foods to those who are experienced in this area.

this is the way i'd approach it --
  • print out @LDG's reply (post #140, above) with the recipe and list of ingredients for the homemade diet recipe.
  • per @LDG (in same post, #140), pick one protein to start with (...worry about introducing new proteins once she's actually eating the homemade food)
  • make a list of supplies/ingredients you'll need to make the home cooked diet
  • locate sources/decide where you'll buy the ingredients
  • order (online) or go to store(s) to buy the ingredients
start with that. after you've got that done, move on to the next step of measuring ingredients and making the home cooked diet.
 

abbyntim

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Oh my gosh, I am feeling overwhelmed right now. 

I'm sure it's me, as I read through the awesome detailed posts it brought me to tears.

Sorry, I have to go regroup myself and will be back.

Thanks so much for all of your help.

Okay I'm not going anywhere, I got my grip, just needed a few minutes.

So I need to break this down a bit, because yes, I am bawling and am def. overwhelmed. I would go to the ends of the earth to fix my girl, yet it's making the food that gets me, I just can't grasp it all.

(post menopause is to blame!....true.....) I read it and get lost. SO many questions.

Is there a specific brand/type of raw food that I can buy and cook, add some supplements to and work on her this way?

Don't I need to worry about what she is getting to get the inflammation down?

Laurie, you said that her ultrasound report looks more like IBD to you? Then why all the other inflammation? Pancreas, lymph nodes? Thickened bowel loops? Is the thickened bowel loops IBD?

The more I've considered my vet's advice, honestly, I don't think she is all that good at this kind of health problem. She's just too undecided.

It's too big of a deal and she is too precious to me to be fooling around with it. That's how I feel we are doing, so I do need to get it resolved on my own. (with lots of help here!!!)

Do I now NOT worry so much about one single novel protein anymore? 

I can get her back on timed meals, what a pain, can't believe I did this before and was thrilled at accomplishing it, and now right back to square one again.

So timed meals, got it.

If I know what food I should buy and supplements to add, then I can work this in, she is just going to have to accept it, for her own darn good. (yeah right, who's the boss?!)

I am ready to hit amazon for the nexabiotic and slippery elm bark powder. Is that for inflammation btw? Is there anything else I need to order from there before I place the order?
I think many of us have been in your position. Not knowing what to do with Tim is what caused me to join this site in February. I had the same doubts about our vets. I think they are generally skilled practitioners and really care about animals, but I don't think their training or way of thinking equipped them to handle a problem like Tim's. Other than throw medications at him. I wanted to solve the problem, which I saw as widespread inflammation, not suppress it. So when I decided to address his inflammation by changing his diet, I felt it was the correct thing to do but I felt very scared and alone.

I am sure Laurie will respond (and I don't know much about IBD). But I can tell you that Tim's inflammation was so widespread that it affected his entire digestive tract, bladder, lungs, and heart (and possibly other areas that did not result in obvious symptoms). I do not know how it happens, meaning the precise mechanism, but I think inflammation can cause damage that allows toxins to spread and cause further damage.

I think Laurie's advice about home-cooked food is solid and I can't add anything to that, as I am still feeding commercial food, mostly commercial raw, to Tim. I may try home-prepared some day, and I'd definitely follow her advice. It is a little overwhelming and I had other things going on in my life, so I decided to try commercial raw first, as it seemed easier. So far, Tim's responding well. If you think you might want to go that route, let me know and I can give you much more detail about how I did it.

Regarding a single novel protein, I think vets recommend that as a way to attempt isolate an allergy. For a cat that is dealing with inflammation and may or may not have an allergy, a single protein is a way to calm the system, in my opinion. When Tim was having frequent flares, he ate only rabbit until things calmed down. When we initially finished weaning him off cisapride, we kept him on rabbit to minimize any changes because we wanted to make sure he could poop on his own without the drug. When I started introducing raw, I started with one brand and one protein, then gradually added another to get where I am today. So I do think you should stick with one protein as you get her used to timed meals (important!) and a different kind of food. Once she's settled into that, then you can gradually try another protein, and so on.
 

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Hun, to help you feel less overwhelmed, just focus on one thing at a time. Start with the transition to timed meals.

As you calm down and can focus on more information, pick one thing at a time to do.

I think the probiotic would be the next thing to do. Order it and then work on introducing that and incorporating that into your routine.

When she's getting the probiotic, then work on the slippery elm.

When she's on the probiotic, and taking some slippery elm, think about diet.

The recipe for homemade is really quite simple. Do you cook for yourself? This is one pound of food and a little liver. Just order the supplements necessary. When you're ready, let me know via PM, and I'll provide you links to what you need to put in your amazon cart. Then just ... buy some meat. Even ground, since you're going to cook it. Buy some liver. Mince it. Put them in a frying pan, and fry it. Scrape all of it, including the fat in the pan, into a bowl. Let it cool. Add all the dry ingredients to a jar, shake up. Add some water to the cooled meat/liver, add the dry ingredients, and then squeeze in the salmon oil capsule. Stir it up. Then use a 1/8th teaspoon to drop it on wax paper and freeze. If you can't fit it all in the freezer at once, cover the dish of food, put it in the fridge. When the first batch is frozen and transferred to a bag, freeze more.

If you don't want to make food yourself, the ONLY commercial raw food that can be cooked is Rad Cat. It is very expensive. But if you can afford it for her, here is a link to see if there is a distributor in your area: http://www.RadFood.com

You cannot cook food with ground bone in it.

If you want to try a pathogen-free raw food (because it is treated with high pressure pasteurization - a type of pasteurization that doesn't use heat), you can try Nature's Variety. That is often available locally. the problem is that it is rather high in fat, and Krissy seems sensitive to high fat diets.

Just break it down into steps. Just focus on one thing at a time.

As to the IBD vs allergies, it is because there is such generalized inflammation that I think the vet is correct in the IBD diagnosis. She's not itching or scratching, she's not got hot spots or red spots on her skin. She's not vomiting and doesn't have diarrhea. The main symptom is the generalized inflammation and being nauseous. As GoHolistic has explained, this is indicative of IBD that is upper GI-based, and often comes with pancreatitis. The "allergies" or food sensitivities are a symptom, not the disease.
 
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catwoman707

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Quoting an older post (meant to do this awhile ago), there is both "meat by-products" and "poultry giblets" in Fancy Feast Turkey & Giblets. Since "meat by-products" does not specify a source, then multiple species of animals are used (beef, pork, etc.). Poultry giblets could come from any fowl, but most likely chicken. They also do not specify the liver.

I know you're already trying to move on to more novel protein, but I just wanted to make sure you knew that Fancy Feast Turkey & Giblets could essentially contain a quite a mix of different proteins. So, unfortunately, this turkey only diet is not turkey only. 
Yeah, unfortunately I do know. 
  It's the closest I've come in a canned that she will actually eat.  

I was just thinking of how I told her vet when we spoke several days back, that this was the only thing I can get her to eat besides her dry BB, she looked up the ingredients online while we talked and said oh well it doesn't look like there are any other meats/proteins so that should be fine.

I'm telling you I am losing serious faith in her at this point.

While I don't mean to put her down, but I think this is def. NOT her area of expertise, what Krissy has going on, not by a longshot, so she is just as lost basically as I am, just goes by what sites recommend.......

I AM however very grateful to the ultrasound vet, she is extremely knowledgable in reading ultrasounds, I have no doubts about that.

So basically what we are looking at as her diagnosis is what the ultrasound report states. (without the vomiting, not sure why she thought that...)
 
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catwoman707

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Okay, I got my recoop and now ready to get back to it.

I have made a list of the ingredients needed for home made.

However, I was thinking that it might be best for me to try her out with home cooked before buying all of the ingredients. 

If there is a premade raw that I can cook at home to try out on her, what kind would be easy to access? 

So basically sounds like I need to get some ground meat, whether turkey (most likely since I can go up the street for it, although it sure is boring tasting....) or whatever, pork would be great as it does have a much better flavor on it's own, but also concerned at the harder on her digestive system part.

Okay so get ground turkey again, boil it? (eew) and coat it with fortiflora which I have here in my cat room though expired but good for flavor still) and see if I can get her to eat it.

I can start there, and already started picking up her food dish, as she IS  a dry grazer.

I have ordered the nexabiotic and the slippery elm powder.

Meanwhile I will keep her eating the dry blue buffalo basics limited turkey/potato and ff canned turkey & gibs, and work on sliding in some cooked turkey when I can, see if she will go for it or not.

By the way, strangely enough she is not as unhappy today as usual, not quite as clingy to her water dish at least, and actually went and hopped up on the bathroom sink and called to me for water. Spoiled, she likes it out of my hand :)

EXCELLENT point also about not being able to cook premade store bought raw as it has bones. That would have never entered my mind......

Thanks again SO much for all of the great supportive people here!! I am grateful beyond words.
 

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I don't think there would be a need to boil it.  You could pan fry it just without adding seasonings or oil.  Actually the meat would keep more of it's nutrients with pan frying.
 
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catwoman707

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I don't think there would be a need to boil it.  You could pan fry it just without adding seasonings or oil.  Actually the meat would keep more of it's nutrients with pan frying.
Great thanks. It may even help give it more flavor too.
 

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Okay, I got my recoop and now ready to get back to it.
:hugs: :hugs: :hugs:




If there is a premade raw that I can cook at home to try out on her, what kind would be easy to access? 

.... EXCELLENT point also about not being able to cook premade store bought raw as it has bones. That would have never entered my mind......
Exactly. The ONLY premade raw you can cook is Rad Cat. http://www.radfood.com



So basically sounds like I need to get some ground meat, whether turkey (most likely since I can go up the street for it, although it sure is boring tasting....) or whatever, pork would be great as it does have a much better flavor on it's own, but also concerned at the harder on her digestive system part.
Pork loin is lean. It won't be harder on her digestive system. :rub: Being a new food to her, it may be easier on her.

As to taste, you're humanizing Krissy. :heart2: Cats smell amino acids, fat, etc. If kibble weren't sprayed with fats, most cats wouldn't eat it. You may need the fortiflora - you may not. If she doesn't like turkey breast, it's not because it's boring, it's because something about it doesn't smell right to her. Most older cats do not know that raw food is food. Think of it like this. You've adopted a 70-year old grandma (that's how old 12 cat years is in human years). Your 70-year old grandma has only ever eaten dry cheerios. She's never had a salad. Now you want her to eat a salad. It's texture is different, it looks different, it smells different, it feels different... that's food? That's how cats feel. To get your grandma to eat salad, you may need to tear of one tiny little bit of leaf and add it to her cheerios, so she basically eats it by mistake. You do that over and over, and she becomes familiar with the taste. Then you can add half a leaf of lettuce. Then an entire leaf. At some point, you can try a dish of salad, covered with dressing, croutons, bacon bits, cheese, etc - enticements that get her to eat the lettuce in it. This is what you are doing in a transition to a healthier food. If you offer grandma a salad and she doesn't eat it, it doesn't mean she won't come to love and crave it if you introduce it properly. And you know that salad is healthier for her, what her body needs, despite what her experience and senses tell her. :)


...I can start there, and already started picking up her food dish, as she IS  a dry grazer.
Make sure you keep track of how much she eats vs. how much she should eat. Leave the dish out overnight, but in a measured amount. Did you read how to transition from kibble to timed meals? It's so important that you set her up for success - for a few days, see how much food she eats in the allotted amount of time, and then make that the amount of food you put down, and feed however many meals a day you want. I started with something like six, (I work from home), then worked it down to four when I pulled the kibble left out overnight, and then after about six months, I dropped the fourth meal and divided up what they eat daily into three meals. But with timed meals, they eat ALL of the food in the dish. That is the goal. So figure out how much that is, and that - for now - is her meal size, and defines how much food you leave out overnight and how many meals you decide to feed at first. And once she's fully on timed meals and her weight is stable, THEN you start walking down, slowly, the amount of food you feed, so she safely and slowly loses weight.


By the way, strangely enough she is not as unhappy today as usual, not quite as clingy to her water dish at least, and actually went and hopped up on the bathroom sink and called to me for water. Spoiled, she likes it out of my hand :)
I'm so glad she had a good day. :heart2: :rub:
 
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catwoman707

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Okay, gotta LOVE the salad vs grandma story, I totally get it! :)))

You'r right on all accounts, I probably do humanize her, but what do I know about what entices her?

No rhyme or reason to Krissy's likes. She will lick whipped cream, she likes chicken white meat, peanut butter, tuna, licking bars of soap and freshly showered feet. Haha! 

So I will start with frying some pork loin and see how she likes it or not. If not, I will try rolling some in fortiflora.

Should I put anything in the frying pan at all? Dry?

Meanwhile working on timed meals.

Oh btw, I do not leave any dry out during the night. So one less hassle there :)

Thanks again!
 
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I'm so sorry for what your going through with your furbaby. I'm a vet tech and I see a lot of kitties with IBD and unfortunately I have an old lady cat whose been struggling with IBD for years. Of course diet and supplements should always be tried first but at some point a lot of cats need further medical treatment so I just thought I could mention what has worked for my Mittens. Her diets not the best because she's super picky and will literally starve herself if she doesn't like the food I offer but I think you've gotten a lot of fantastic advice about diet so I'll leave that out. She's been on pred as well as metronidazole on and off for the last 7 years but over the last year her vomiting has gotten to the point where she pukes daily. My vet (also my boss) read an article about a steriod called Budesonide that was starting to be used for IBD in cats and we decided to give it a try and it's been awesome. She's been on it for about 6 months now and since starting it she's only vomited once which is AMAZING for her. That along with monthly B12 injections has really increased the quality of her life. Budesonide is a very strong steriod but it works almost like applying a topical cream to her intestines and though it can have the side effects of pred its to a much lower degree because not much of it is actually absorbed into the bloodstream therefore the diabetes and cushings disease risks are much lower. She also has high blood pressure, a grade 2 heart murmur and early renal disease and so far has had no problems with any of those worsening. My vet has also started using it on other cats who have had equally good results. I def think its something people should bring up with there vets when discussing long term steriod treatments for IBD. Also my CKD cat hates his canned kidney food but if I mix Fortiflora with it he'll gobble it up so maybe you could try that to help introduce new canned food. Good luck with Krissy, IBD sucks but with some trial and error I'm confident you'll find the best treatment for her.
 
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catwoman707

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I'm so sorry for what your going through with your furbaby. I'm a vet tech and I see a lot of kitties with IBD and unfortunately I have an old lady cat whose been struggling with IBD for years. Of course diet and supplements should always be tried first but at some point a lot of cats need further medical treatment so I just thought I could mention what has worked for my Mittens. Her diets not the best because she's super picky and will literally starve herself if she doesn't like the food I offer but I think you've gotten a lot of fantastic advice about diet so I'll leave that out. She's been on pred as well as metronidazole on and off for the last 7 years but over the last year her vomiting has gotten to the point where she pukes daily. My vet (also my boss) read an article about a steriod called Budesonide that was starting to be used for IBD in cats and we decided to give it a try and it's been awesome. She's been on it for about 6 months now and since starting it she's only vomited once which is AMAZING for her. That along with monthly B12 injections has really increased the quality of her life. Budesonide is a very strong steriod but it works almost like applying a topical cream to her intestines and though it can have the side effects of pred its to a much lower degree because not much of it is actually absorbed into the bloodstream therefore the diabetes and cushings disease risks are much lower. She also has high blood pressure, a grade 2 heart murmur and early renal disease and so far has had no problems with any of those worsening. My vet has also started using it on other cats who have had equally good results. I def think its something people should bring up with there vets when discussing long term steriod treatments for IBD. Also my CKD cat hates his canned kidney food but if I mix Fortiflora with it he'll gobble it up so maybe you could try that to help introduce new canned food. Good luck with Krissy, IBD sucks but with some trial and error I'm confident you'll find the best treatment for her.
Thanks so much for your post!

I think we haven't gone the steroid route because Krissy is not a vomiting kitty. She's one of those that has normal stool too, probably the main reason why I still think this is all related to her diet of mainly chicken for years. An unfixed allergic reaction, so inflammation in her pancreas, intestines with thickened bowel loops and inflammed lymph nodes. 

I'm really hoping this will all settle once she has time and the right diet that won't be irritating her anymore. (I could be wrong too but can't hurt to hope!)
 

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http://www.felinecrf.org/index.htm

One of my kids started loosing weight and yowling at night;  turned out to be hyperthyroidism.  Your cat is sleeping a lot so it could be hypothyroidism; the opposite.  If you have them run a "Senior Panel" of blood work, which includes:  Superchem, CBC, Differential, UA & T4.  The T4 test is for thyroid.    I have been reading about thyroid issues in cats and they have come up with a link to the white paint they use in the lining of some cans of cat food. Since I have been feeding my cats a brand that lines the cans with this white paint I can see how this could possibly be the cause, but I don't know.  The website I have included helped me tremendously when one of my girls,  and my oldest boy, went into Renal Failure.  But they also cover other medical issues as well.

I am now in the process of taking all my seniors in for a senior wellness exam & Senior Panel because prevention can save a life. 

Also, Antibiotics do not help viruses, only bacterial infections.
 
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