12 Year old Kitty with advanced Kidney Disease

Freckles has advanced Kidney Disease and blood levels off the chart at stage 4.  I have tried flushing 2 times and he came back a bit better, that was a month ago.  Levels went down but now are back up.  One month later he is now not eating very much but drinking water.  I tried IV fluids for the first time, at the vets, yesterday.  Vet says with blood levels so high that he recommends not to do more IV fluids and to think of the well being of my cat and consider euthanasia should he continue not to eat.  He lost 1.24 lbs in one month.  I am so hesitant to consider the vets advise dueto the fact Freckles does not seem to be at the end of his battle.  I have had cats losing their battle with Kidney Disease, and Freckles just does not seem to be there.  He does groom himself, wants loving all the time, walks about the house and wants to go outside every so often for a few minutes.  I am trying baby food, chicken broth, wet food, and now will try tuna juice as recommended by someone on this site.  When is it a good time to give up and consider the cat's well being?  What are the signs that the cat is truly suffering?  Do I keep on trying more with Freckles?  If I could only get him to eat!

You can read my posts on 2nd opinion thread last week.  I am now at a different vet and we are trying some meds.  The most important thing my vet told me is my Franny has no body fat anymore, she is wasting away.  Pay very careful attention to Freckles wasting away, if you start to not feel any fat and just bones this could be a turning point.  If you can afford it is there another vet in town?  With stage 4 it does sound bad and you may just make Freckles comfortable.  My first cat Ali was given fluids for 6 months then she stopped eating and by the time I put her down she had blood in her urine and she was almost in a coma.  I knew it was time.   Do not let your cat out anymore.  unless you can see where she is in the yard.  To many of my neighbors out door cats did not come back because they went to die away from the owner.  Keep Freckles close!  Good luck.

Thank you so much for your input.  I will not let Freckles out anymore.  I am leaning towards getting a second opinion if only to get help  more for Freckles and keep him comfortable.  I was surprised my Vet suggested not to do Fluids and this was based on Freckles blood work from yesterday.  To me the fluids would not be in hopes to get him better but to make him comfortable while he is still striving to survive.  Freckles too had some blood in his urine but it was a small amount once or twice.  I guess that will be what I also need to look as well as checking his body fat.  Thanks for your help.  Sounds like you are going through something similar now as well as in the past.  Sometimes I think some vets are not inclined to cats needs and are more in tuned with dogs.  Possibly my vet is that way.  Good luck to you and Franny.  This stage of loving and caring for our pets is so darn hard!

Thank you for this post. This is something I've worried about since our older cat Mr. Grimsby was diagnosed with CKD a year ago. He seems fine now, but I know it's only a matter of time before we'll have to make this decision ourselves. I watched the video about giving SQ fluids, but I'm not sure I want to go that route. If Mr. G is suffering, I will have him euthanized. It seems the more humane way to go. My problem is figuring out when that time comes, so I'll follow this post closely. Perhaps I'll post something for the vet to answer, too.

Best regards,

PHarber-Murphy

More Than 9 2 5 Virtual Assistance

Can you post the blood results? It may help with responses from some of the more knowledgeable forumers.

I have a Stage 3 kidney cat.

Just today I was reading this: http://www.felinecrf.org/subcutaneous_fluids.htm (scroll down to the bottom). These are possibly some reasons why your vet does not want to give fluids.

If your gut says it's not time, you should try for a 2nd opinion.

My guy has been getting sub-q's for well over 1.5 years and although he is close to skin and bones he does have some fat on him and he is still going strong. When he first came down with it he was just over 17 years old and he is now over 19 and still kicking strong. He has his bad times but his blood work is now somewhere in the normal range most of the time. He also has other issues to compound this but it doesn't mean it is the end. It comes down to the quality of life and his is still good for the most part so I keep helping him out.

The fluids are there to keep him hydrated because even if he is drinking kitties with renal failure don't absorb the water properly and keep drinking. The fluids also help to flush out the toxins and keep his system clean so it is very important for his health. Giving a sub-q is pretty easy and my guy gets one once a day for 100ml and doesn't seem to mind too much because I think he knows it makes him feel better. Giving a sub-q with renal failure cats is very important so I would look further into this. Taking Freckles to another vet would be my first step if I was told that I should consider putting him down when his quality of life is still good and he is eating and grooming. Losing weight is not the end of the world for the cat but it does mean you have to make sure he always has good food and preferably wet food which contains a lot of water and will be easier for him to digest and process.

Linda, did you get  a 2nd opinion yet....I am on day 4 of sub-q fluid and Renavast powder tabs I have to give 2 times a day.  I am really surprised that Franny is coming around slowly.  She is very sick with cancer and I do not want to prolong the illness but if she can live a nice life for another 6+ months I am all in.  I will keep you posted.  Most of all doing 2nd opinion is not cheap....But I know now that what ever Franny's outcome...I did the best I could.  

No I have not gotten a second opinion yet but now that I have heard how well Franny is doing I am going to do that.  I will also ask about the Renavast Powder Tabs.  Freckles is barely eating so I need to do something fast.  I think Freckles has some kind of cancer going on which has effected his Kidneys.

Also, what stage of Kidney Disease is Franny and how old is Franny?

I will get the blood results from the Vet and let you know.

Freckles blood work 7/15/14:  BUN 140<, Creatinine 21.1 High, Phosphorus 15<  Note:  Creatinine was 5.6 after flushing on 6/17

Franny is just turning 12 yrs.  As said, I started her on Sub-Q Tues 7/15 along with 3 x a day Nutr-Cal and Renavast( these are not tabs but capsules with powder in them.  Her weight went from 8 lbs to 5 lbs when the weighed her 7/15.  The first 3 days were a struggle getting the Nutr-Cal in her.  So i missed a few times just to give her some peace.  The Renavast presented a new problem, I tried to mix it in will a tablespoon of food and sometimes she would not eat.  I went on Renavast website.  They say there is no taste.  So today I did as suggested and mixed up 1.5ml water with the powder into a syringe given to me by the vet office. I place Franny on a towel and feed her the syringe. This is working much better if you cat will not eat.  Its such a small amount of fluid.  Yesterday(Sat) she started not eating as much again.  Today I took her for her fluids(vet assist is only charging me 4.00) And I will do my own fluids if she starts to get better.  Anyway I asked them to up the fluids if possible because yesterday, day 4 after 2nd opinion she was slowing down a little, sleeping a lot and not eating or drinking enough so they gave more fluid with out hesitation.  I asked the vet assist if I can force feed her a little food and they said yes. This afternoon she ate a tablespoon of food.  Oddly, she will not eat any of the cans I have opened.  She wants a fresh can every time...its crazy.  But in the last few days she has eaten cat food she would not eat for the last 45 days(when I started trying to give her real canned chix and tuna, which she liked a little better).  But she is not eating just a tiny bit of the cat food again as said.  AND I am trying to ad the Science Diet A/D Critical Care,  which my vet said is my hydration and nutrition in a tiny bit of the A/D than any food I can give her.  If I have to force something on her tonight it will be the A/D.  She looks like she has gained a tiny bit of weight.  I will go for blood work on Tues and let you know the results.  BUT I did read on the Renavast that it can take a month or 2 before it really starts to work.  I hope this info helps you.  

Franny blood work 7/15 seems different than Freckles in numbers.  I would assume all tests are standard.  

Liver function ALK Phos  320 and total billburbin 1.6 both way too high.  Kidney function Urea Nitrogen 104 and Creatinine 3.6 again way to high.  But  on 7/15 she had not eat or drank almost nothing for a few days.  She was totally dehydrated.   I will post the next results when I get them.

Wow it sounds like Franny and Freckles are experiencing the same thing.  I was disappointed to read that the Renevast takes a month or two to work.  Not sure if Freckles has that much time?  My day is uplifted if Freckles will just eat a teaspoon of food.  He is still drinking lots of water.  I have cups full of water around my bedroom and he goes to each cup and drinks.  I look forward to hearing the results of the blood work on Tuesday.  We must have 10 different cans of food open at a time.  I have the A/D but my vet told me it is more important that they eat something and if they are not eating the A/D to feed them regular cat food.  I also have been using baby food (chicken, turkey, beef).  

The Renavast seems to be extremely helpful even in beginning stages so don't get discouraged yet.  Thanks for the A/D advice.  I swear Franny knows I have to open a new can every time she eats...little brat!  Think I will go put some water around again to make her interested.  Ok go get some rest and enjoy the rest of your weekend, I will post if anything changes but as soon as I get the blood work.  

btw, you went to a 2nd opinion if I understand???  Did the 2nd vet say anything different than the 1st???

I never heard back from you on Franny's follow up Vet visit.  I hope it was all good news.

My heart aches to say that we put Freckles to sleep last Thursday evening.  I did consult another Vet and she said that the SQ Fluids or anything would not help Freckles as his KD was so far along for anything to even make him feel better while I provided Hospice to him.

My daughter and I stayed with Freckles while his precious soul passed on to a better place.   I will see him again when I go...I know.  I still hurt so much over seeing Freckles in so much distress and then having to make that final decision.  Quite frankly, I hated making the decision but knew I needed to think of Freckles.

Please know that Freckles had extreme blood levels and don't give up on Franny as she may not be as bad as he was.

Linda 112, wow I am so, so sorry for your loss.  Please look for my posts on When to Euthanize it is a thread I started and just posted again.  Oh I am so sad about Freckles.  Franny's blood work was so terrible.  I loved the 2nd opinion and so glad I did it.  But in the end you will read on When to Euthanize that all good thing come to an end.  My best buddy was in the closet and not responding in a good way on Monday night.  On Tuesday, last week, I knew what I had to do.  They say...you will know....and I did, at 3:30 last Tuesday I let Franny go.    My heart breaks tonight thinking about it.  But each day gets a little better because I know how sad so many of my friends have been when they have had to go thru this. .I have had the hugest out pouring of friends on Facebook...I never expected this, at this level.  People love their pets!  And when their pets get sick and die its overwhelming.  My heart is with you and your family for making the right decision, the best decision you had for the little friend that made a big difference in your life.  Memories are made from something that really mattered.  Freckles and Franny will be with us always because of the memories we made with them.  Please tell your daughter she was very brave to be part of the passing process....Rest in Peace our dear Freckles and Franny. 

BTW...as said the blood work was terrible.  Franny rallied for a few days....and then everything went down hill fast.  The 2nd doc had a different diagnosis but the reality was it was still a mass in the stomach.  And without a biopsy there was no clear cut opinion.  We will 2nd guess ourselves to death.  But if Franny had gotten a little more weight I believe she would of had to have major surgery.  What is good for our pets....not major surgery so they can live for another 6 months.  I know now that if I notice my pet is losing weight...I will move a lot quicker.  But I truly believe Franny and Freckles got sick, just like people and die just like people, sometimes very quickly.  Big hugs for you and your family.