What is actually in Urinary RX diets that makes them top choice.......

for maintaining proper PH and preventing crystals from forming ???

I have Spook, my 4 year old male cat on Royal canin S/O dry & canned for his FIC and to prevent struvite crystals from forming.

Besides the salt, low magnesium and the "proper" ingredients, which I can't figure out I don't see a difference compared to Purina Pro plan focus urinary health cat food.

he has terrible issues with maintaining a proper ph and has bouts of Cystitis flair ups even on this RX food.

I can never get a satisfied reason from my vet what makes these diets so much better.

I know that Moisture is the most important thing, I am not sure that the magnesium content is all that important from what I have researched and read.

I sure would like to get him off of this food because of the high salt content and all of the massive amounts of grains but am paranoid since he has had so many issues with flairs.

Caviar grain free venison strives for a ph target range of 6.1- 6.4 and I haven't got the specifics on Addiction canned cat food yet. These are grain free and look to be decent premium cat foods, any input here ????

I believe it's the methionine and pH that helps, but I'll let the more experienced urinary folks confirm that. 

What I really wanted to respond to is the cystitis.  Some here have reported that Cosequin has helped their kitties.  Something about the glucosamine/chondroitin helping with the bladder lining.  Might be worth a try!

I assume you're talking about struvite crystals/stones, right?

Yeah, like @peaches08 said, it's the dl-methionine. Methionine is a urine acidifier. You can buy tablets and crush them yourself, and the methionine is cheap. BUT if you go this route you need to work with a vet. You have to get a urine test, then start off with a small amount of methionine and retest. In between test urine at home with pH test strips. The danger is that if you use too much methionine, you could wind up creating calcium oxalate stones which need to be surgically removed since they can't be dissolved.

The salt in the food gets them to drink extra water, but in my opinion that's not the best route to go. I just mixed an extra tablespoon of water into pate wet food.

I already do add extra water to his canned that I try to get him to eat at least two- three times a day.

I have tried the Cosequin also, I don't know if it was the Cosequin for certain but he threw up a few times and this ceased when i stopped giving him the supplement.

He is getting a series of three treatments from the vet called A-Cyst, it is made up of Glucosamine, hylauronic acid and chondrotin. It is instilled up into his bladder and he goes for a second treatment in another week.

I have ph strips, so testing his ph level is no problem.

Does anyone know if when he is flairing and his ph is too alkaline if 125 mg of vitamin c twice a day would hurt or help ?

I know with human Interstitial cystitis, like I have Vitamin C is a big no no except Ester C which I don't think would do a thing for raising acidity. since it is calcium based..and so it would be alkaline.

So if it is the Methione (sp?) in the food and salt that is really the only thing these RX diets use to acidify the urine and help with struvite crystals , I believe there are many none prescription foods out there that have these included, am I not right ?

Right now we are still with the RC S/O, canned and some dry and Duralactin. I have held back on the Elavil at night because right after I give it to him   his anxiety levels raise because I have pilled him and he goes directly into the litter box. Liquids are no exception either, anything I have to give him by mouth upsets him.

He is not a treat lover either so greenies, pill pockets would be of no value...

The Duralactin is usually easy, mixed into his canned food and it must not have a bad taste.

Yikes, yeah I'd leave the Cosequin alone then.  I wonder if Adequan injections would help?  They're super easy to give at home.

I'm an over-analyzer by nature, but what kind of water does he get?  I've read where some have to give reverse osmosis water to their cats, but I don't remember the reasons why.  I live in a hard water area, so I can't help but to think about these kinds of things.

Yes, many non-prescription foods have methionine. Most do target a certain urine pH, but I'm thinking that the prescription foods probably have a tighter range. The prescription foods also limit magnesium and phosphorus. As you have already researched, the magnesium is debatable as to whether or not it contributes towards stones.

Weruva or Tiki Cat are supposed to be a non-prescription foods that are especially good for urinary issues. They are low-calorie, though, you need to feed about double volume as compared to your average cat food. They are also $$$, especially considering you have to feed double volume.

The dry food will make the urine more alkaline, so if you can cut that out of the diet it would help.

Sorry, no knowledge on the vitamin C. I do know that sometimes it is counterintuitive, though--eating acid foods doesn't always mean the body pH becomes more acid.

Kind of straying from the original question but here's my take on things... As stated above, dl-methionine is added to these prescription foods to acidify the urine-- dl-methionine is a synthetically produced amino acid.  On e thing that can cause elevated urine pH are carbohydrates in the diet. Prescription diets of all types are notorious for being being grain inclusive and therefore almost always have high levels of carbohydrates. The gist: Rx diet = feed carbs that increase pH then add a synthetic amino acid to lower the pH back to preferred range. Doesn't make a lot of sense does it? I would suggest finding a food that is low in carbohydrates... <10% on a dry matter basis. When doing this, keep in mind that just because a food is grain free, it does not mean that it is low in carbohydrates. Many times grain free pet food companies will add in potatoes or other starches to replace grains and these ingredients still provide carbohydrates. Also when selecting a food, look for a food that has low phosphorus... <1.2% on a Dry Matter basis is a good guideline. The main building blocks of a struvite crystal are magnesium, phosphorus and calcium.  By monitoring and reducing the amount of phosphorus intake, we can reduce the formation of the crystals. The amount of phosphorus in cat food is generally a good indicator for the amount of calcium and magnesium in the food, as well as the amount of ground up bone that is within the product. Generally higher quality meat sources are processed with less bone matter. Most fish varieties of food should be avoided due to high bone and phosphorus content. Lastly, as I'm sure you know, water intake in extremely important when dealing with FIC. If your cat will eat 100% canned, I'd recommend it. My own cat eats 100% canned and then has additional water supplemented into the food. This really helps to achieved a constant "flushing" of the urinary tract. If your cat is not a fan of "soup" for meals, there have been studies to show that the more individual (dry) meals a cat is fed in a day, the higher their water intake over the course of the day. If you are still having flare's even when on the Rx diet, I would say at least give this a shot. My guy has been flare up free for about 2 years after finding the "right" food for us. 

To Sum It Up:

1. Low carb food (Grain free doesn't always mean low carb)

2. Lower Phosphorus 

3. More water

PeaBengal,

What canned food do you feed ???

Yes, if RC didn't have to add all those Carbs it MAY be a decent food. My two main concerns are the grains and all the salt and I am not really happy with the fact that there are just a few RX diets and all of them are basically the same. We tried the Hill's RX C/D multicare stress for urinary, two months into it he had a flair, back to RC, still another flair.  RC is the best one out of the choices of the RX diets but it is not fail proof.

I have tried the Tiki Cat and Weruva in the past, Spook is strictly a Pate Boy, he only will lick up the juice/ gravy and leave the rest

He is a dry food junkie, that is where alot of our problems probably lie (along with anxiety). IF I don't have some (very little I leave in his bowl) in his bowl visible to him it creates an anxiety flair for him. (it's true!)

Yes, I know that even though a pet food claims to be grain free it does not mean it is low in carbs, currently there are only a few dry & canned that are actually low in carbs like EVO (too many recalls) , Young again, Orijen and Wysong Epigen.

Fish is a protein source that is best avoided with cats who have urinary issues and alot of pet food manufacturers always seem to want to include many varieties of it in dry & canned and include it in their dry foods.

Last night someone close to us had a post 4th of July party and here came all the booms around 9:30 PM..... This I am sure did not set well with Spook either as he appeared a little upset..... The fourth is what did not help with his latest flair up which he had on the 6th of July.

As I have repeated before, I know dry is not the way to go, even for a healthy cat. I also have a cat Boo, who has IBD, he gets Addiction Rabbit & Blueberries canned and gets a little dry of Caviar New Zealand Venison, grain free.... He is another story and a very expensive one also.

I currently have and do add a little extra purified drinking water to Spook's canned, make it into a gravy

I offer him the canned three times a day, sometimes he will turn it down and only eat it maybe two times a day.

I have a water fountain set up for him, he is not impressed with it.

I have extra bowls of water for him, placed upstairs where he has been now for over a month  to give him seclusion from my other two cats that

sometimes can be aggressive to him.(this is another problem, I have one who sometimes likes to stalk and another one who just doesn't get along with him) Spook is a timid and shy cat and will not fight back.

He has a feliway plug in, also I have the spray.

He has various toys, scratchers, three litter boxes.

He has several windows to look out of.

I have play time with him, one on one and he gets alot of attention.

My goal is to try to get him off of the dry without stressing him out, that is why I have started only putting very little in his bowl then later offering him canned.

Yes, it is struvite crystals..... He has had just flairs of FIC without crystals though.

I tested his PH last night it was 6.4, wonderful compared to 7.5 a week ago.

I also have read that when a cat eats his body goes into an alkaline state that is why it is suggested that free feeding should not be allowed and they should only be fed a few times a day.

Hi DonnaJean, 

Sorry I was out of town for a few days. Currently I am feeding Wellness Complete Health canned cat foods - Turkey, Chicken, and Beef & Chicken formulas. Look for green, orange, and red cans with little yellow "Grain Free" triangles. These are the three Wellness varieties with the lowest phosphorus levels and each have around 6% DM carbohydrates. While the Wellness Core series is generally viewed as superior, the Chicken/Turkey/Liver formula maintains good phosphorus levels but has about 11% DM carbohydrates. Another nice advantage to the Wellness Complete Health series is the fact that they come in 12.5oz cans making them much more economical than other foods that only come in 3 and 5.5oz cans. Wellness foods are also Pate... so you are in luck I used to be a little skeptical of Wellness, it's commercial nature, not really knowing enough about it, and thinking that surely there are better brands. But really when you dig into it... you cant have low carbs, a good amount of protein and a low phosphorus level if you're putting crap quality into your food. Annnnd at the end of the day, we are flare up free so I really can't complain. This is the food that works for us. 

Be careful with Tiki Cat and Weruva. While I think these are excellent and high quality foods, you have to check each variety's phosphorus as well as carbohydrate content. The varieties are really all over the board. Some Weruva flavors have up to 24% DM carbs while other have zero carbs at all. Also these foods, have pretty low calorie contents because of their high moisture levels. You have to feed more of it to not starve your feline friend. My boy eats about 220 calories a day... that would be over 11oz of Weruva's Paw Lickin' Chicken a day! 

How long have you been giving the wellness ?

I have used Wellness grain free canned before in past animals I had .

The reason I didn't even consider Wellness was because of past reviews and "complaints" from pet owners on different websites that had their cats develop UTI while on it.

How much truth to this and so forth, I can't say.

I will check into it again though and keep it in mind as a possible choice .

I did find a couple more choices , Fromm, their canned Duck & chicken has phos .38, Mag. 0.02 and ash. 1.38 Weruva's paw lickin' chicken is very low in all of the above and Peking duck has 0.18 ash, 0.12 phos and 0.11 mag

Yes, with the Weruva I understand how much you would have to feed if you are only feeding the Weruva but I intend to use it as a topping for now over that crappy RC S/O till I can wean him away from the dry completely.

Tiki cat is an excellent food but a little higher in the minerals than Weruva .

This cat is definetly a dry food junkie and is going to take some time to get him off of it.

Right now my other two cats (One has IBD) is on Caviar Venison dry and Addiction Rabbit and Blueberries canned. My IBD cat , we have been through several foods and right now this is working out great for him.

Thanks

I have been feeding Wellness Complete for about 1.5 years without any issues. Keep in mind when reading reviews that happy customers do not write reviews nearly  I will say that I also supplement with Grizzly Salmon Oil, and a product called that is a Veterinary Oral Health Counsel approved dental health water additive called HealthyMouth Cat Essential. In my opinion it is unlikely that these two products have any true affect on urinary health... just thought I'd throw them out there in case. 

What is the carbohydrate content on the Fromm food? For some reason I was under the impression that Fromm was high in carbs but I don't have the ability to pull up the data in front of me at the moment. I could be totally incorrect on that matter. 

Keep in mind when reading reviews that happy customers do not write reviews nearly as often as unhappy ones****

peabengal said:

 
I have been feeding Wellness Complete for about 1.5 years without any issues. Keep in mind when reading reviews that happy customers do not write reviews nearly  I will say that I also supplement with Grizzly Salmon Oil, and a product called that is a Veterinary Oral Health Counsel approved dental health water additive called HealthyMouth Cat Essential. In my opinion it is unlikely that these two products have any true affect on urinary health... just thought I'd throw them out there in case. 

What is the carbohydrate content on the Fromm food? For some reason I was under the impression that Fromm was high in carbs but I don't have the ability to pull up the data in front of me at the moment. I could be totally incorrect on that matter. 

Click to expand...

Peabengal,

I have Grizzly Salmon oil, I need to get it back out of the **** and start supplementing Spook again with it.

I don't know the carb content on the fromm, it might be a little higher in carbs.

Did  your cat have issues with Struvite crystals and /or FIC (idiopathic cystitis) ???

Spook has been doing well for the past week but he was doing well before then 20 days later, 7.5 ph , major flair of his cystitis with visible blood in his urine.

I will look into Wellness, I think the chicken would be a good start then branch out if it goes well..

I fed Wellness to my kitty who had a struvite stone. I became aware of the complaints after we had the struvite stone removed. I did not stop feeding Wellness because I was feeding mixed dry and wet, so I opted to feed 100% wet with extra water. I also began rotating foods as a general good idea. I tested the urine pH. I found that while on Wellness the urine pH was slightly higher. While eating Wellness I'd get most readings at 6.5 with occasional readings of 7; while eating other foods I'd get almost everything at 6.5. So if this is typical, then maybe the fluctuation would be enough for sensitive kitties to develop struvites.

He has definitely had issues with struvites. Our first experience with any urinary issue with him was when he had a complete urinary blockage! It was extremely sudden (no symptoms up until blockage) and scared me to death! Since then we had the "flares" (straining to pee, visible blood) over the course of a year before getting on the right food and getting weight down about a pound (he wasn't fat, I just keep him more on the "trim" side now to avoid the risk). At each of his flares and blockage, urine pH was at 9. Forgot to mention earlier, when you spoke of the fluctuating pH, that pH can be altered by the timing of the meal. So if you feed before your test while food is digesting, it will be higher. Generally 7.0 pH is the line that we try to stay under regarding the struvites. That being said, most times I do not see struvites under the microscope until we cross into the 7.5-8.0 range. 

Not disagreeing with any complaints about Wellness. I truly believe that there is a "right food" for every animal (healthy or with special needs), not one miracle food for everyone. Just sharing our experience since this is the one that works for us