Nature's Variety Raw Instinct Bites

jessica smith · Jul 1, 2014

Quick question regarding Nature's Variety Raw Bites if anyone is in the know; previously I was able to get large bags of Bites that are listed as appropriate for BOTH cats and dogs.

Now I see that they no longer market this way, and have dog Bites and cat Bites.

The dog Bites variety outnumbers the cat Bites by a huge margin, and is available in cheaper bulk sizes.

Dog: http://www.instinctpetfood.com/instinct-raw

Cat: http://www.instinctpetfood.com/instinct-raw-food-cats

More importantly, most local stores by moi have very limited selection (or their selection is near or already well past the "best by" date) for cat Bites, but dog Bites seem to be very popular and moving off the freezer shelf regularly enough for freshness. If I can do the woof over meow variety, I'd much prefer that!

What I can't figure out, is why the dog stuff no longer shows recommended for cats??? The ingredients are exactly the same, and there is only a minuscule difference in mineral content (bit more zinc in cat stuff). Thoughts? I called the manufacturer and she just said "do the cat stuff, its different now", but I asked in what way and she couldn't be specific.

Dog Rabbit Bites:

Minerals
Calcium: 0.8%
Phosphorus: 0.55%
Magnesium: 0.046%
Sodium: 0.26%
Potassium: 0.25%
Zinc: 23.7 ppm

Calorie Content (Calculated)
Metabolizable Energy
197 kcal/cup
1787 kcal/kg

Guaranteed Analysis
Crude Protein (min): 15.0%
Crude Fat (min): 9.0%
Crude Fiber (max): 2.0%
Moisture (max): 66.0%
*Omega 3 Fatty Acids (min): 0.41%
*Omega 6 Fatty Acids (min): 2.45%

Rabbit (Including Ground Rabbit Bone)

Pork Liver

Pork Heart

Pork Fat

Ground Pork Bone

Rabbit Liver

Yeast Culture

Pumpkinseeds

Montmorillonite Clay

Apples

Broccoli

Butternut Squash

Rabbit Kidney

Rabbit Lung

Salt

Cod Liver Oil

Dried Kelp

Carrots

Spinach

Dried Chicory Root

Blueberries

Cat Rabbit Bites:

Minerals

Calcium: 0.9%
Phosphorus: 0.57%
Magnesium: 0.046%
Sodium: 0.26%
Potassium: 0.25%
Zinc: 28.0 ppm

Calorie Content (Calculated)

Metabolizable Energy
197 kcal/cup
1787 kcal/kg

Guaranteed Analysis
Crude Protein (min): 15.0%
Crude Fat (min): 9.0%
Crude Fiber (max): 2.0%
Moisture (max): 66.0%
*Omega 3 Fatty Acids (min): 0.40%
*Omega 6 Fatty Acids (min): 2.2%

Rabbit (Including Ground Rabbit Bone)

Pork Liver

Pork Heart

Pork Fat

Ground Pork Bone

Rabbit Liver

Yeast Culture

Pumpkinseeds

Montmorillonite Clay

Apples

Broccoli

Butternut Squash

Rabbit Kidney

Rabbit Lung

Salt

Cod Liver Oil

Dried Kelp

Carrots

Spinach

Taurine

Dried Chicory Root

Blueberries

pushylady · Jul 2, 2014

Hmmm, suspicious me thinks it's all marketing, hoping that they'll make more from cat owners. Maybe it's about taurine added to the cat bites and not the dogs?

I buy freeze dried meat treats, which I mostly feed to my cats. I always buy the large dog ones because they're better value. The cat ones are smaller and pricier, and they're exactly the ingredient (just one type of meat). Except they've cut the meat into smaller sizes for cats. Whip-de-doo, I can do that myself thanks and save some money!

peaches08 · Jul 2, 2014

I found different information on the website for the cat formula http://www.naturesvariety.com/InstinctRaw/cat/rabbit

Ingredients
Rabbit, Pork Fat, Raw Ground Rabbit Bone, Pork Liver, Pork Heart, Apples, Carrots, Butternut Squash, Ground Flaxseed, Montmorillonite Clay, Broccoli, Lettuce, Spinach, Dried Kelp, Apple Cider Vinegar, Parsley, Honey, Salmon Oil, Olive Oil, Blueberries, Alfalfa Sprouts, Persimmons, Inulin, Rosemary, Sage, Clove.

There might be a difference in taurine levels, but I don't know. Hopefully someone who also uses this product and knows more about nutrition can help.

jclark · Jul 2, 2014

NV Instinct was confirmed not too long ago as as being for both cats and dogs however they have changed their packaging and took Taurine off the label for dog food (both cat and dog have been refomulated, but they're the same).

In the past If you look at the patty size of the raw you'll see it's for both cats and dogs. Their website has a picture of product packaging with a "best of used by date " prior to 4/4/15. On the patty size bag you'll see a pic of dog and cat in the lower right hand corner.

I just checked the Instinct canned and the ingredients (taurine included) are the same for both cats and dogs.

jessica smith · Jul 2, 2014

Good eye, I didn't even notice that, that's exactly right! Right after "spinach" in the ingredients list its lacking taurine. I see in another thread above this though that there should be enough natural taurine in there though since its raw and 95% meat:

Because taurine is present in raw meat, even commercial raw should still contain enough taurine. I think the heart has the highest amount of taurine if you would like to offer more of that, or a supplementary powder. My understanding is that even if your cat is receiving more taurine than she needs, it'll just come out in her waste if it doesn't get absorbed.

I'm planning to feed 100% raw bites, but of a variety of flavors from the dog in larger bags. Think there is a point in getting taurine powder as a precaution anyway?

If I can use the dog stuff, that is music to my ears though. I have no idea why Nature's Variety is making this more difficult now trying to force cat owners into such a smaller selection and smaller bags at higher prices... ugh!

jclark · Jul 10, 2014

Jessica Smith said:
Good eye, I didn't even notice that, that's exactly right! Right after "spinach" in the ingredients list its lacking taurine. I see in another thread above this though that there should be enough natural taurine in there though since its raw and 95% meat:

Because taurine is present in raw meat, even commercial raw should still contain enough taurine. I think the heart has the highest amount of taurine if you would like to offer more of that, or a supplementary powder. My understanding is that even if your cat is receiving more taurine than she needs, it'll just come out in her waste if it doesn't get absorbed.

Click to expand...

I'm planning to feed 100% raw bites, but of a variety of flavors from the dog in larger bags. Think there is a point in getting taurine powder as a precaution anyway?

If I can use the dog stuff, that is music to my ears though. I have no idea why Nature's Variety is making this more difficult now trying to force cat owners into such a smaller selection and smaller bags at higher prices... ugh!

I received a reply from NV and they have indeed started to market seperate formulas for the raw food which btw appears to be the lack of taurine as the only difference.

The patties and medallions will be made/marketed for dogs only.

For those of us with multiple cat I guess we can either add taurine or go somewhere else.

NV Instinct Canned will still use the same formula for both cats and dogs.

joleca · Jul 15, 2014

Jessica Smith said:
I have no idea why Nature's Variety is making this more difficult now trying to force cat owners into such a smaller selection and smaller bags at higher prices... ugh!

One word, GREED!!! I called them and spoke with their "head of development" and was told that this was what "cat owners had requested". That they have no intention of packaging the "cat version" in a larger size, and then he had the unmitigated gall to tell me that if I cared about my cats, I would have no problem with buying them a bag daily (I have 3).. which would work out to close to $400 a month (more than I spend on ME).. He told me I should have no problem finding somewhere else to economize so I could continue to feed my babies the "cat version".

I was thinking about getting the "dog version" and adding supplemental taurine as well. Is there anything else different in the formula other than the missing taurine that would make it unsuitable for cats if the taurine was added??

Thanks!!

jclark · Jul 15, 2014

Joleca said:
One word, GREED!!! I called them and spoke with their "head of development" and was told that this was what "cat owners had requested". That they have no intention of packaging the "cat version" in a larger size, and then he had the unmitigated gall to tell me that if I cared about my cats, I would have no problem with buying them a bag daily (I have 3).. which would work out to close to $400 a month (more than I spend on ME).. He told me I should have no problem finding somewhere else to economize so I could continue to feed my babies the "cat version".

I was thinking about getting the "dog version" and adding supplemental taurine as well. Is there anything else different in the formula other than the missing taurine that would make it unsuitable for cats if the taurine was added??

Thanks!!

I looked at the ingredients for the Duck (patties dog vs bites for cat) and they are identical except for Taurine.

From a nutritional perspective they are essentially identical with very miniscule differences in the amounts of just a couple of minerals and Omega's.

I'm at a loss. I was going to add Taurine myself but my spouse is not open to the idea. She wants to buy raw cat food, and I get frustrated/exhasperated having to explain the lack of difference between NV Dog and Cat food.

With three cats it is ridiculous to spend the $$ on the smaller bites so I guess I'm going to have to stop raw completely. Having an IBD cat and two young adults this really bites.

ritz · Jul 15, 2014

I personally feed prey model raw so am not familiar with this brand, but I'd feed them the kind for dogs and a couple of times a week, give them (fresh) chicken hearts.
Thought given the head of development's attitude, I might look for a different brand.....

jessica smith · Jul 18, 2014

What are yalls thoughts on this particular taurine supplement? I was trying to find one that is 100% taurine (rather than other brands that I found were 95% malodextrine and 5% taurine, etc), and this seems to fit the bill:
If its good I'll just need to double check about how much to add, and think I'll stick with the dog food variety as I checked a couple other stores, and the cat stuff is not only hard to find but very expensive. Even petsmart carries the dog stuff now though, and very fresh.

jclark · Jul 18, 2014

I would just run to a GNC or Vitaminshoppe and buy the capsules.

Ex: http://www.vitaminshoppe.com/p/taurine-500-mg-100-capsules/vs-1237

IF I continue to feed NV Raw I will go this route for sure. This dosage is plenty for 3 cats who also eat canned cat food during the day.

ldg · Jul 24, 2014

If anyone wants input on how much taurine to add daily, here's discussion: http://feline-nutrition.org/answers/answers-how-much-taurine-should-i-add

If I were going to use the dog raw, I'd buy taurine capsules and just add 1/2 a 500mg or 1/4 of a 1,000mg capsule daily. It's "overkill," but taurine is so essential AND water soluble (so excess is just excreted), I'd rather be safe than sorry.

ldg · Jul 24, 2014

Oh - and they sold a 50% interest in the company to Agrolimen, Europe's 3rd largest manufacturer of pet food, and the world's 6th largest. It was announced on the 18th.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/natures-variety-enters-joint-venture-202500161.html

And Susan Thixton's take on it: http://truthaboutpetfood.com/the-times-they-are-a-changing

synpi · Jul 28, 2014

I emailed Nature's Variety recently, and they told me the only difference was the lack of taurine in the dog version. Otherwise the raw bites are identical for cat and dog. So I am currently buying dog raw bites because they don't make lamb for cats (which has been an incredibly acceptable protein source for my Rocky and actually brought an end to his intermittent diarrhea). I am supplementing it with 500 mg of taurine because when you grind or process raw food it can cause the taurine to diminish in some way that I'm not that clear on. According to raw food experts, taurine in raw food only remains intact in whole pieces of meat.... I also add it to the rabbit for dogs because my store won't carry rabbit for cats. This protein source has also been a big hit for my three girls and Rocky. Like you, I am thinking of just buying the bigger bags of dog raw bites for the convenience and added value. For now, I'm keeping the raw at 50% of their diet with the other 50% quality canned. So far it has been great - reduction of dandruff in one cat, added energy in another, no more runny poo...

NV also told me that they source their taurine from New Zealand and it is ox bile.... for now I'm sticking with taurine capsules by NOW from my local health food store. Jarrow is another reputable company. I have had trouble figuring out how much to give them because there are differing opinions online. But it seems you can err in the way of more because they just pee out the excess. I did the calculations with the raw bites cat food and it turns out that on average the raw bites contain 170mg taurine per ounce of food. That's quite a lot.... so more is fine.

Another tip I found helpful to get my cats to accept raw food which has a different texture and much less odor than canned.... sprinkle freeze dried meat treats on top. You don't need a lot - I'm really trying to go as high protein and low grain as possible, hence the freeze dried sprinkling. Fortiflora has also worked - a bit controversial because of the animal digest, but at least it's still protein. One cat held out for about two weeks - now she is happily cleaning her bowl of raw.

ldg · Aug 2, 2014

A good friend that provides consultations and advice on ferret nutrition posted detailed information on the formula / marketing changes: http://www.ferretharmony.net/2014/08/02/update-on-natures-variety-instinct-raw/

joleca · Aug 2, 2014

LDG said:
A good friend that provides consultations and advice on ferret nutrition posted detailed information on the formula / marketing changes: http://www.ferretharmony.net/2014/08/02/update-on-natures-variety-instinct-raw/

Thanks for posting this link.. First detailed info on the actual changes.. I've tried a few other brands and my babies aren't happy with them.. They refuse to even touch Primal unless I add treats or some cooked chicken or other "people food".

Will go ahead and start getting them the "dog" versions when I run out of what I have left of the older formulas (tried to stock up while I still could fine), and will supplement with additional taurine.

synpi · Aug 4, 2014

Ok - I read the nutritionist's info on marketing changes and all was cool except that I was unhappy about the China connection for rabbit protein, so I emailed their customer relations and here is what I got:

"All of our rabbit is sourced from France. Our poultry, pork, bison, and beef come from the U.S. and our lamb and venison are imported from Australia and New Zealand. We source most of our ingredients from the U.S. and turn to other locations only as needed. We are very stringent on our sourcing and have good relationships built with our vendors for quality ingredients."

Sincerely,

Shannon

Consumer Relations
1-888-519-7387

If anyone follows up on this, please let us know. This food really has changed my kitties' world.

ldg · Aug 4, 2014

Two years ago, NV had sourcing problems with the rabbit. They were sourcing from China, though at the time they maintained that the rabbits were raised in the same stringent manner as rabbit they used to source from France. Looks like they got their French rabbit sourcing issue straightened out. I didn't let the rabbit being raised in China stop me from using it at the time. IMO, it's not the same things as being able to falsely boost protein levels in canned food by adding melamine.

jclark · Aug 5, 2014

synpi said:
I emailed Nature's Variety recently, and they told me the only difference was the lack of taurine in the dog version. Otherwise the raw bites are identical for cat and dog. So I am currently buying dog raw bites because they don't make lamb for cats (which has been an incredibly acceptable protein source for my Rocky and actually brought an end to his intermittent diarrhea). I am supplementing it with 500 mg of taurine because when you grind or process raw food it can cause the taurine to diminish in some way that I'm not that clear on. According to raw food experts, taurine in raw food only remains intact in whole pieces of meat.... I also add it to the rabbit for dogs because my store won't carry rabbit for cats. This protein source has also been a big hit for my three girls and Rocky. Like you, I am thinking of just buying the bigger bags of dog raw bites for the convenience and added value. For now, I'm keeping the raw at 50% of their diet with the other 50% quality canned. So far it has been great - reduction of dandruff in one cat, added energy in another, no more runny poo...

NV also told me that they source their taurine from New Zealand and it is ox bile.... for now I'm sticking with taurine capsules by NOW from my local health food store. Jarrow is another reputable company. I have had trouble figuring out how much to give them because there are differing opinions online. But it seems you can err in the way of more because they just pee out the excess. I did the calculations with the raw bites cat food and it turns out that on average the raw bites contain 170mg taurine per ounce of food. That's quite a lot.... so more is fine.

Another tip I found helpful to get my cats to accept raw food which has a different texture and much less odor than canned.... sprinkle freeze dried meat treats on top. You don't need a lot - I'm really trying to go as high protein and low grain as possible, hence the freeze dried sprinkling. Fortiflora has also worked - a bit controversial because of the animal digest, but at least it's still protein. One cat held out for about two weeks - now she is happily cleaning her bowl of raw.

Have you looked at the Patties? I used to feed my 3 cats 1 patty/day along with some canned.

synpi · Aug 5, 2014

Not yet. But I will! Especially if it is cost saving. The raw bites were my intro and thaw out in about 7 minutes on my counter. I think I have to thaw the patty out longer. Also I went the raw bite route cuz I like to mix duck and chicken or lamb and rabbit etc. to help them get used to a new protein source.

On another note, I feel sometimes that I jinx myself. Lately Rocky hasn't been too into the lamb (!). But when I made a steak the other day for dinner, he loved the nibbles I gave him. Going to try the beef even though it can be an iffy protein source for some cats.

(Wow have things gotten complicated. I remember my younger days and first cat when friskies canned 25 cents on sale and 9 lives kibble sufficed!)

Nature's Variety Raw Instinct Bites

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