I have posted before about my kitten in the Health Forum.  She has Pectus exavatum. Currently she is 3 months of age and only weights 2 pounds.  Her littermate is now 3.5 pounds at 3 months of age.  Her ribs are very deformed and growing outward where her sternum is growing inward.

Have not been unsuccessful with controlling her pudding diarrhea since mid May, which is too long to have this. I have taken her to three vets.  Initially I put her on Royal Canin Kitten, then switched to NV Limited turkey dry and wet, still diarrhea and finally Daves, still diarrhea.  Someone here suggested I stop Daves due to some of the ingredients in it that can cause this, but the pudding diarrhea continued even though I stopped Daves..  The third vet recommended Hills Prescription I/D and the pudding diarrhea has cleared up.  I have been slowly introducing the NV Limited turkey dry, just two kibble pieces a day and she's back to pudding diarrhea.  I also tried to introduce her to Hills I/D dry and same reaction but was more severe as she had vomiting and blow out diarrhea, so stopped that. 

I also add FortiFlora to her diet. 

I want to get her onto a high protein diet due to her age and her weight but the only food she can tolerate is Hills.  My vet said to give it another 2 weeks

and we will revisit this again. 

Otherwise, she has high energy, very playful and very loving. The only drawback is that the cost of that prescription wet food. 

My vet claims he knows nothing of this condition as I wondered if her weight issues were because of her condition.  This is the third vet I have taken her to and it was myself that pointed out this condition to him, which he agreed. The only studies I can find on Google Scholar are from radiologist's findings and nothing more since this is soo rare.  The next concern, aside from her longevity is anesthesia, how will she react to that with her restricted  breathing issues when I take her in to be spayed.

On another issue......

Her litter mate has had gas issues since I have had him.  About 5 minutes after eating he starts belching/burping and has painful gas.  He has been on the same foods as his litter mate.  Any suggestions here? I have tried Pepcid and this does nothing to help him.  I have tried serving him smaller meals and that does nothing to help him.

Thank you for reading :-)

Debbie

Wow. Lots going on.
We had a total of 8 kittens that came in a year ago. (2 from one litter, 6 from another...all were brought in by the same person.) To make a long story short, they all had a horrible GI bacterial infection that took several months and multiple medications to clear up.

*None* of these cats can tolerate ANY dry food. We finally got their diarrhea clear up by putting them on a canned only limited ingredient diet...Royal Canin Prescription Hypoallergenic PV (Pea and Venison.) Once we cut the dry food out, their diarrhea cleared up. We even tried the dry Prescription that correlated with the can...it was a no-go.

I have switched them to mostly NV's LID Turkey and LID Duck formulas (canned only) and ALL are thriving. The few instances where we have tried dry food, they have vomiting and diarrhea.

If her symptoms cleared up on the canned I/d, I would certainly keep her on that. I would forgo dry food, especially for the immediate future.

Hi CatPak ~ Thank you for responding *smiles*   Glad to know that all your kittens are thriving.  Wondering what it is in the dry that got to all your kittens as my kittens responded very much the same way. 

I tried the NV Limited Turkey and also Limited Duck and they could not tolerate this due to continuing pudding diarrhea.  My vet seems to think that in time they will grow beyond this chronic diarrhea.  I want to get a handle on it right away as I don't want any inflammatory processes to start.

My vet gave them injections of Ivermectin and Centrine which gave them immediate relief three weeks ago.  He said he will give them both another injection when they come back for their last series of FVRCP. 

I'll put the dry away.  Although I prefer the dry to spread the gap between feedings as these diets are expensive.

Debbie

I will add that this group of cats was on the NV LID Turkey (dry & wet) for 8 wks and then the LID Duck (dry & wet) for about the same amount of time before we started the Prescription diet. They had HORRIBLE diarrhea when on the NV. Things cleared up for everyone within 12 hrs of starting the canned only prescription food.

It's been about 6 months since we started the prescription. I started introducing the crew to the NV again about 3 wks ago (canned only.) And, so far, no issue what so ever.

I wiill note 1 of these kitties (female) HAS been diagnosed with IBD.

CatPak ~  My vet felt the kittens need to be on this prescription diet for awhile.  What medications did your vet treat them with to clear up the bacterial infection?  How did you determine it was an infection, doing a gram stain?

Debbie

We sent out a Feline GI PCR test.

You can read all about it here:
https://www.idexx.com/pdf/en_us/sma...tes/realpcr-canine-feline-diarrhea-panels.pdf

These guys tested positive for Campylobacter. I think we tried 3 or 4 different meds, including Erythromycin and Tylan (individually, all meds at once.)

We have also dealt with Tritrichomonas, Cryptosporidium, and are currently treating 2 cats for Giardia and Clostridium Perfringens.

These are all things that the vet CANNOT test for in house. (Well, they can *sometimes* catch Giardia, but it is often missed in house.)

Each of these parasites, protozoans and bacteria require a different course of treatment. And, some treatments work for some cats and not for others.

Thank you CatPak ~  The link you shared was very informative and I bookmarked it.  I will approach my vet about this test if the diarrhea does not clear up.  My vet recommended doing more testing and/or treatment when I bring them back in for their final FVRCP in 3 weeks.  The pudding diarrhea only occurs when I change diet and I had been trying to get them on a dry food due to the expense of the wet food.  I noticed that at the bottom of the literature it mentioned that it all depends upon when eggs are shedding as well, so repetitive testing is warranted, which is what aligns with what my vet is saying.

My vet's office charges $20.00 more than what Chewy.com charges, so will use Chewy.com for now and keep them on Hill's Prescription I/D and not change anything and give it another two weeks and see then. 

The only time they will eat Hills I/D is if I sprinkle FortiFlora on the top of this, esp if the can comes out of the **** for them

Debbie

I think you do need to get the PCR test run to rule out all possibilities with parasites and other bug type things. I feed a small amount of kibble to my two kibble addicts. One of mine will get diarrhea with the high end grain free kibble I think its to rich for her

Thank you Denice ~ I will look into the PCR test :-)

Debbie

Hi there, have been reading your thread the last couple of days and thinking about different bits of information.  I haven't met a cat with Pectus Excavatum but did do a bit of reading a few months back when I was an advisor and there was another member with young kitten and they thought the kitten had this condition.

Good nutrition and body weight does seem to be very important for cats with Pectus Excavatum, and trying to gain weight as much as possible as this significantly helps the kitten / cat's overall health. That she is surviving to 3 months is a real positive and the more weight she can gain the better her health should be.  It may be that there are other health issues that mean she is not getting the best from her food, like if her body is having to work harder than a young cat's usually would so she needs extra nutrition, she has some food intolerances, or some form or parasite as others have suggested.  I agree that wider testing sounds sensible as I have not seen anything in the veterinary articles I have found that mention loose bowel movements.

I did read an interesting article on nutrition and weight management for people, cats and dogs where lean muscle is lost despite healthy quantities of food / proteins being eaten and it suggests ensuring a certain level of omega 3 fatty acids are consumed.  It might be worth discussing this further with your vet along with the additional testing for parasites.  I am attaching a short section of the nutritional advice from the article plus a link to the full publication if you are interested.  (It is a fairly long and technical document).

Cachexia is simply the medical term for loss of lean body mass, and sarcopenia refers to where this happens with an increase in body fat.

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1939-1676.2011.00838.x/full

 

"Omega-3 Fatty Acids

Increased dietary long-chain polyunsaturated omega-3 fatty acids, either from a highly enriched diet or through supplements, may have a number of benefits in animals with diseases that predispose them to cachexia or in animals with sarcopenia. Omega-3 fatty acids result in less potent inflammatory mediators (eicosanoids) than do omega-6 fatty acids, and omega-3 fatty acids also decrease TNF and IL-1 production. Omega-3 fatty acid supplementation has been shown to decrease the muscle loss in dogs with CHF and, in some animals, to improve appetite.[22]  In cardiac disease, omega-3 fatty acids have antiarrhythmic effects and also may enhance myocardial energy metabolism.[129, 130]

The optimal dosage of omega-3 fatty acids has not been determined, but the author currently recommends a dosage of fish oil to provide 40 mg/kg/day eicosapentaenoic acid (EPA) and 25 mg/kg/day docosahexaenoic acid (DHA) for animals with any degree of cachexia. Unless the diet is one of a few specially designed therapeutic diets, supplementation will be necessary to achieve this omega-3 fatty acid dosage. When recommending a supplement, it is important to know the exact amount of EPA and DHA in the specific fish oil brand because supplements vary widely. Fish oil supplements with good quality control should be used and they should always contain vitamin E as an antioxidant, but other nutrients should be excluded to avoid toxicities. Cod liver oil should not be used to provide omega-3 fatty acids at this high dose because it contains high concentrations of vitamins A and D which can result in toxicity. Flax seed oil or other plant-based omega-3 fatty acids also should be avoided because inefficient hepatic elongation of α-linolenic acid to EPA and DHA makes these inefficient (in dogs) or ineffective (in cats) sources of omega-3 fatty acids for these species.[131]  In addition, ventricular arrhythmias in dogs were not significantly decreased by flax seed oil supplementation, as they were with fish oil.[129]  "

Source of text: Cachexia and Sarcopenia: Emerging Syndromes of Importance in Dogs and Cats

1. L.M. Freeman^*

Article first published online: 23 NOV 2011

DOI: 10.1111/j.1939-1676.2011.00838.x

Copyright [emoji]169[/emoji] 2011 by the American College of Veterinary Internal Medicine

Journal of Veterinary Internal Medicine

Volume 26,  Issue 1,  pages 3–17, January-February 2012

I hope your kitten keeps well and you see her health improve as she grows.  Also that your vet is able to source good information in relation to her care, especially anasthesia for her spay operation when  this is due.  Has your vet said anything about her heart and cardiac health as this also has an impact on her weight and growth (which the full article I have linked goes in to)?

Thank you Mouse Servant for your detailed response to Stella's condition  

I wanted to point out some further observations with Stella.  When I put down her food all on one plate together, her brother pushes her away and she just sits there and watches until he is thru gulping everything down from the plate, leaving her nothing. I have tried feeding them in separate dishes but he rushes to her food bowl and hops back and forth between the two bowls.  When I separate them and put her in another room far from him, he starts crying loudly and she suddenly stops and just lays down and shows disinterest with food.  My only hope in getting nutrition into her is to hand feed her quietly while her litter mate is sleeping, although not very successfully.  This is part of the problem with getting enough nutrition into her.  He walks away with his sides bulging/ burping and has gas because he has eaten too much too fast, which is common for a kitten who grew up out in the wild. So, there is a behavioral issue there.

Next is finding a goof vet who knows anything about her condition and her much needed nutrition.  I once worked with kittens that needed an emergency infusion of nutrients and the vets gave me "Rebound" but since then, the last three vets are nay-sayers with this product because of the high concentration of fat soluble vitamins, but it does have Omega 3 fatty acids in it. My current vet, upon reading about Rebound with me, decided to wait another 2 weeks to see if we can stabilize her on one food and then revisit all this again. He didn't want me to introduce too many things at once as it might muddy the water.

Stella is now growling very long, has a very scruffy dry coat however she has high energy and can keep up with her brother. She's soo frail on the other hand.. Her brother is very robust, weights two times her weight and is thriving very nicely. His bowel movements are very good, well formed, whereas Stella's are still pudding like. 

I did read that this is a syndrome and comes with it poor overall conditioning and loose stools, although since reading this, have not been able to find it.  Have been searching on Google Scholar. May call Texas A&M as there is a radiologist there that has studied this and see if he's still in the game and can recommend anyone in the Northern Virginia for help. I'll repost here tomorrow about my progress with Texas A&M.  Interesting that the medical journals are calling this a syndrom and not a congenital issue.

Thank you for following me with this.  I'm going to steal her away and try to get more food into her now.  I get up several times a night to feed and then feeding goes on all day long too.

Debbie

Stella's brother sounds quite a character!      Beastie boy.  If he is significantly bigger you could try putting Stella some food in a little condo / box with an opening he's too tubby to get in to - I saw that idea in another post or article somewhere - but don't ask me where.  

Stella is incredibly lucky to be with a caring person like you.  You really are giving her her best chance in life and even though you are worrying she is growing long and her coat is not in good condition just now you are doing very well.  That she has survived with you this long is a very good sign.  I hope her overall condition starts to show improvement soon and you manage to find a vet or nutritionist who is able to give you more help. 

I never read anything about loose stools being associated with the disease @LuvMyCat6204   I was quite surprised when you said that initially.  Not that is isn't.. I just didn't find it in my research.

My Sundar is an incredible food hog.. He sounds just like your boy.  Could you feed them in different rooms, where Stella can't hear him?  Or is he just appallingly loud?

I take Nilah into the bedroom with her food, locking the boy out, and stay with her.  She's more likely to eat then.  I just read a book or whatever.  You could make it a time when you're in there anyway.

By the way, this brutish boy of mine is the one with PE.  Nothing wrong with him now except if you look really closely he's a bit of a funny shape.   I think your girl just may be out of the woods with the PE now.. if they make it to her age or perhaps just a little older, they normally get OKed. 

I'm just wondering why there is the digestion thing happening.  It would be excellent to find a good vet who understands all the possibilities associated with Stella's condition.

Hello Mani ~ I just checked Stella's morning poop as she was going in the litterbox.  It's slightly formed but still very soft. Feeling dis-heartened now.  Her formed stools come and go which is weird as she is getting no other food.  I sprinkle FortiFlora on her food as it is partly a food supplement with extra vitamins.  Could this be causing some of her pudding diarrhea? Just thought I would throw it out there.

Oh yes, I have tried separating them when they eat.  Rocky is very vocal and will come and find the door that separates us and yowl loudly.  Stella stops and sits down and stares at her food then and shows no interest.  When I feed them together, in separate plates or bowls, she will constantly look at him with anxiety and will let herself be pushed away.  This morning I sat on the floor and it was a dance. I had to keep moving Stella as Rocky insisted on claiming both bowls or plates.

Yes, I wish I could find that article that talked about this as a "syndrome" and loose stools are part of this.  I'll look again today and see.  I also plan on trying to find that author of the publication I found under Google Scholar at Texas A&M today, the one from the radiologist.

It's anyone's guess, what Stella's age really is as she was found out in the wild with her mom and allegedly other siblings. There were other gray kittens available but when I got to the barn, Stella was the only one left. The rescue person has said nothing if anyone else has reported this condition with their cats, other than that they all had cocciddia.  Rocky looks nothing like her at all, he's a brow stripped tabby, but then that happens with any cat that has kittens outside.  Rocky has big bones, is going to be a big cat, whereas Stella is very tiny in size with very small bones.  She is about 1/3 the size of Rocky.  She is growing and then at times when I caress her, she seems like there is nothing there at all. She looks like she is no older than 2 months but that could be due to her size.

I'll let you know what I find out today, and thank you for the encouragement.  Will be getting back with you :-)

Debbie

MServant ~ I call Rocky "Woolie Bully", LOL.   Rocky has issues with being separated from Stella.  If he looses eyesight of Stella he goes crazy looking for her, hence why feeding her behind another door won't work and once she hears him crying, she will stop eating.  That's an idea about constructing a box where Rocky can't get into and see if that works.  I just got some food delivered and have a new big box and will give that a try.  Or I have clear plastic tubs I can put her in so he can see her, she can see him and ... I think I just gave myself a good idea based on your suggestion.  Thank you MServant !!  I'll try this in 3 hours when I feed them again and I'll let you know..

I think her high activity level with Rocky, racing here and there, jumping high is helping her with her breathing.  I remember a famous TV actress, can't remember her name, that had an illness and thought she would never recover and they put her in water and she flourished due to the activity and exercise and actually became famous for her water ballet. 

Thank you for your encouragement :-)

Debbie

It sounds exccellent that Stella has energy and interest in playing with Rocky.   I am assuming your vet has checked her heart and it seems healthy at this point?  Otherwise it is worth keeping a bit of an eye on her that she doesn't get too breathless until it is checked and you are reassured.  With playing, her body will need lots of calories so fingers crossed here you find a way for her to feel safe eating with that big brother of hers around.

Hello MServant :-)  Yes, her heart and lungs have been checked out by three vets so far, no murmurs and breath sounds are strong. I haven't seen her panting or short of breath, at this point I could probably clock her at 40 mph around my home, LOL, she is indeed very fast.  I tried her in the clear plastic tub to encourage her to eat and put Rocky's within eye sight and he went and sat and watched her eat all the while yowling and she just stopped.  They are better eating off of the same plate at this point.  I do feed them both every 3-4 hours pretty much around the clock.  Although at night I try to get at least 7 hours of sleep but that is not always possible since I can't put down any dry food for them to munch on during the nighttime hours.

I contacted the vet who wrote a paper on PE at Texas A&M, she did respond but was very evasive.  I sent her more inquiries and will see if she responds. 

Debbie

If you can keep Stella's weight up this sounds pretty positive to me.  She sounds like a real tike!        

BTW - is she the grey / blue kitten in your avatar or is that her brother?  I'd love to see photos if you have managed to get any - what with them moving so fast.  

  I'd cut back the FortiFlora, just to see if it's the problem.

How would you feel about putting the boy in a carrier with his food, way away from the girl?  I have exactly the same thing happening with my two - it sounds like you're describing them.. The only difference is that Sundar doesn't meow outside the door.. her just sits there.. so Nilah will eat her food.

I'm absolutely with you on the exercise.  I'm sure that helped enormously to get Sundar 'into shape'.. I felt that climbing and stretching were really important. 

I'm all for photos too!  I'm not sure we know your boy's name?

Stella was very lucky to find you

LuvMyCat6204 said:

 
Hello Mani ~ I just checked Stella's morning poop as she was going in the litterbox.  It's slightly formed but still very soft. Feeling dis-heartened now.  Her formed stools come and go which is weird as she is getting no other food.  I sprinkle FortiFlora on her food as it is partly a food supplement with extra vitamins.  Could this be causing some of her pudding diarrhea? Just thought I would throw it out there.

Oh yes, I have tried separating them when they eat.  Rocky is very vocal and will come and find the door that separates us and yowl loudly.  Stella stops and sits down and stares at her food then and shows no interest.  When I feed them together, in separate plates or bowls, she will constantly look at him with anxiety and will let herself be pushed away.  This morning I sat on the floor and it was a dance. I had to keep moving Stella as Rocky insisted on claiming both bowls or plates.

Yes, I wish I could find that article that talked about this as a "syndrome" and loose stools are part of this.  I'll look again today and see.  I also plan on trying to find that author of the publication I found under Google Scholar at Texas A&M today, the one from the radiologist.

It's anyone's guess, what Stella's age really is as she was found out in the wild with her mom and allegedly other siblings. There were other gray kittens available but when I got to the barn, Stella was the only one left. The rescue person has said nothing if anyone else has reported this condition with their cats, other than that they all had cocciddia.  Rocky looks nothing like her at all, he's a brow stripped tabby, but then that happens with any cat that has kittens outside.  Rocky has big bones, is going to be a big cat, whereas Stella is very tiny in size with very small bones.  She is about 1/3 the size of Rocky.  She is growing and then at times when I caress her, she seems like there is nothing there at all. She looks like she is no older than 2 months but that could be due to her size.

I'll let you know what I find out today, and thank you for the encouragement.  Will be getting back with you :-)

Debbie

Click to expand...

The deal with the soft stools coming and going, particularly with a kitten and no diet change really sounds like a parasite or some similar issue.  If you do get the PCR test done it is much more accurate if it is taken while she has diarrhea.