Two Cats Suddenly Fighting Aggressively

Catapault said:

 
the3rdnae, motion sensor sprinkles would be a great idea except . . . . we're on a multiple acre site. These are either barn cats sauntering across the road OR a neighbor's pets, ditto.The latter is more likely. We'd have to stretch hoses across the lawn in three places and leave them there, something that's not good for either lawn nor hoses. Besides, there are all the deer, woodchucks, rabbits, birds, endless array of critters that come sauntering hither and thither across the grass.

We don't feed treats. The calming treats I just bought - both cats eat them but not with wild enthusiasm. I'll have to look next time I'm at Pet-Valu or Pet-smart or whatever.

But perhaps even a sheet of cardboard to quickly block the view might help.

However this is a great improvement and it's just been a week. Will try again tomorrow but tonight we're both too tired to stand sentry while the boys eat.

Stay tuned for future developments!

Click to expand...

If you aren't big into treats (neither am I, I don't want them to fill up on goodies), you might want to try freeze-dried meats.  So far we've had great luck with Beefeaters Nature's One Chicken Breast.  The chunks are soft enough to peel into small segments, so you can give cats little bits at a time.  They're thrilled to get those slivers of chicken!  

If you have to temporarily block the windows, by all means.  I hope it works out for you!  It's important that they have windows to observe the world through, so I hope it isn't necessary to block all of them. Watching the goings-on in the world outside is actually necessary for a cat's mental health: you don't want to inadvertently create new problems in place of the ones you're trying to fix.  

I know you've got strong feelings on the subject, but l'll just say that it won't hurt anyone to divert animal traffic away from problem areas.  You have a spacious yard from the sound of it, so you aren't going to put a crimp in the critters' style by deterring outside cats from traveling near the windows.  Animals survive in the wild because they're adaptable...they would alter their usual routes through your yard quick as a wink.  Not to mention, you wouldn't have to leave any deterrents in place for very long.  Those outside cats are quick learners.  Just a little food for thought.

Best of luck!  

My regular pharmacist is compounding a chicken-flavored oral suspension of Valium for timid Mr. Poe. Apparently they do enough prescriptions for dogs and cats that he does it frequently, hence the chicken flavoring.

Why are we going this route? Didn't really want to. But Mr. Poe is scared of Domino. While they'll eat together - about 3 or 4 feet apart - once done Mr. Poe looks at Domino and runs away to hide. Of course Domino walks after him. Not especially aggressively, and easy to distract with a peacock tail feather. But I am reluctant to just leave the two of them loose to "settle it" on their own so Mr. Poe goes back to our bedroom & bathroom. And it has been 9 days.

Anyone know how quickly the Valium will take effect to calm Mr. Poe, or how long the effect will last? My vet said to dose once or twice a day, as needed. And could continue indefinitely. I'm hoping that 5 to 7 days will break the cycle and we can all be friends again.

Better living through chemistry!

As per the prescription from our veterinarian, our pharmacist compounded (made up) an oral solution of diazepam (that's Valium.) He compounds medicine for cats and dogs so often that he can even make it chicken flavored.

This evening I gave Mr. Poe his dose about 45 minutes before dinner, in a little canned food.

Bingo! Better living through chemistry. Brought him downstairs from our bedroom where he's been sequestered. Fed the two of them dinner separated by the width of the kitchen hallway.

And afterwards?

Did Mr. Poe run and hide, with Domino showing that 1,000 mile stare?

No indeed! Mr. Poe wanted to chase the peacock tail feather that I used to distract Domino yesterday and the day before. He wants it so much that he jumped right over Domino, ran right into Domino, pushed Domino aside so he, Mr. Poe could play with the feather. He was leaping and twirling and running in circles. And when I put the feather away on top of the refrigerator he sat, staring upward with lust in his heart, uttering soft little chirps.

I think Domino is a tad confused . . . .

I'll continue with the Valium for another few days, then see what happens if I stop it. Here's hoping it will break the cycle of run away / chase / attack.

Catapault said:

Better living through chemistry!



I'll continue with the Valium for another few days, then see what happens if I stop it. Here's hoping it will break the cycle of run away / chase / attack.

Click to expand...

OH SO HAPPY to see this update and I am glad that you opted to go the "chemistry" route because you really want to nip this in the bud and get them back on track quickly. I would keep it up, yes, for at least a week and then every other day? for a week. Wonderful news and I hope that soon you will have your household back to the happy cat family it once was. :cross: :happy3:

p.s. Little giggle - that Domino seemed confused..... I think that is a good thing. :nod:

It's going so well! They even play tussled last night and this morning, bunny kicking and all but no growling, while waiting for their meals. And they were both loose in the house last night, peaceful and quiet.

Mr. Poe had one dose Tuesday evening, 2 on Wednesday. I'll give him one tonight, tomorrow night and Saturday night, then go to every other day for 3 dosing days (Monday, Wednesday, Friday) then stop. Sound like a plan?

So very thankful it resolved this easily.

Catapault said:

It's going so well! They even play tussled last night and this morning, bunny kicking and all but no growling, while waiting for their meals. And they were both loose in the house last night, peaceful and quiet.

Mr. Poe had one dose Tuesday evening, 2 on Wednesday. I'll give him one tonight, tomorrow night and Saturday night, then go to every other day for 3 dosing days (Monday, Wednesday, Friday) then stop. Sound like a plan?

So very thankful it resolved this easily.

Click to expand...

:high5: :high5: :bigthumb: AWESOME!!!!!! I am thrilled to hear this great update. I think your plan for the valium dosing is just right. Now you know IF there is any setback, for whatever reason, in the future you have the valium on hand now. I hope that they have found their way back to each other permanently and Mr. Poe is trusting his ole' buddy once again. :cross:

It happened again - 4:00 a.m. Domino was again attacking Mr. Poe who was scrambling under the trundle bed and screaming. Tossed Domino out of the room, dosed Mr. Poe with diazepam (Valium), shut the door and tried to go back to sleep.

Four hours later Mr. Poe was still terrified of Domino, is jumpy even when it is just me coming into the room. He IS eating and using his litter pan. Such a good boy..

We know the cause - my neighbor's indoor / outdoor gray and white cat has been coming around, seen him several times. Spoke to my vet (also her vet, at least for her dog's recent spay) who said every time we see the cat, catch it and take it to the SPCA. My neighbor will have to pay a fine to get him back, and the fines will escalate.

I called my neighbor and told her what had happened. She said she'd talk to their children and try to keep the cat in at night. I said it wasn't at night. We'd seen him midday, late afternoon, early evening. Explained about redirected aggression, and taking her cat to the SPCA, and that I did not want her cats (she has at least two) on my property. Period. End of story.

She said she'd see what she could do.

Domino had attacked Mr Poe so furiously that I had to pull tufts of black fur from between Domino's toes.

I'm hoping that another dose of diazepam this evening, tomorrow, etc will calm Mr Poe down. My husband and I were saying, just yesterday morning, how fabulously things had resolved. And it was excellent, really great. Now this. I am so sad and upset.

Please tell me what you think, any suggestions, good wishes, consolations. I - and Mr. Poe - need all the good wishes we can get.

I went through this and I'm sorry I don't have the time to go over everything.  See the link I posted earlier for more details.  In summary, the two most important things that I did was to prevent my cats from seeing the outside cat and total separation.  I live in an apartment building so it's not exactly my property and to be honest, I didn't have the heart to trap and take the outside cat to the county shelter.  I also don't have a car, the shelter is far away, etc.   I wrote a letter to the neighbor and the cat was kept in for a couple of months but was soon out and about.  All I could control was my home--I always position the blinds to allow light in and the cats to see up.  That drastically cuts down the chance of seeing a cat down and in front of the windows.  Then I separated my cats for five months and very slowly reintroduced them.  They were on regular and small dosings of prozac.

I had to do all of the above because my cats too had tufts of each other's furs in between their toes and scratches on their faces.  It was terrible.  They have been living together for over 3 months now.  I still have to tamp down some aggression and stalking, especially late at night.  But the hostility level is a 2 or 3 rather than 10 or 11.  They're never going to be friends (even though they're supposed to be sisters--according to the shelter), but they can live together.

At this point, you'll have to decide what you are willing to do in terms of prevention and reconciliation. 

Thank you for your reply, tdonline.

I spoke to my neighbor and she said she'd "try" to have her children keep the cat(s) in at night. I explained it wasn't just at night, it was midday, afternoon, anytime. She'll see what she can do. I told her what the vet said. Assured her that if I trapped her cat(s) on our property I would take them to the SPCA and she could be faced with escalating fines.

Be assured that if this did happen I would A) give the shelter her name, address, and telephone number, in writing. And b) would telephone her from the SPCA parking lot before I went in, to tell her where her cat was.

It is not possible to close off all outside views. There are several doors that are full glass - the cats can sit on the floor and still look out. We're so far in the woods that there are no curtains or shades on them.

Over the front doors is a large rectangular window. My husband made a gangplank from the upper stair landing to the window so Domino doesn't need to jump, he can just saunter across to get on the window sill. Then walk, make a small jump, get on top of the coat closet and cross over to the upstairs balcony. Have only ever just once seen Mr. Poe up there.

The diazepam worked very, very well. In just a few days our two cats were cohabiting just as before the previous incident. Mr. Poe had been totally off the medication for more than a week. I am reasonably confident / hoping that it will work again. Will medicate him 2X / day today and tomorrow, cut back to once / day for 2 days, and then see how it goes.

It is not that Domino is essentially hostile to Mr. Poe. It is redirected aggression because my neighbor's cat strolls around outside, cannot be reached, and Domino goes crazy.

Same neighbor has sheep. Got a couple of goats. Goats kept getting out and eating my garden. I eventually resolved that by asking if she wanted me to invite her to a goat barbecue. And don't even get me started about her free ranging chickens.

She's a pleasant woman. Nice neighbor. Just - jeez lady, keep your animals at home!

As I'm making dinner at about 7:00 p.m. I look out the kitchen doors and here's the gray and white cat strolling past. I banged on the glass and yelled. Cat ran around back of the house. My husband ran out on the deck and hissed. Cat scooted off.

I called neighbor and left a message that she wasn't doing very good at keeping her cat home.

I'm preparing our cats food bowls and here she is, with her older son and a carrier. She'd come over to try and catch her cat! That's better than I thought would happen.

I went out and told her that her cat was probably headed home. Thanked her for coming over after him.

And Domino hadn't seen him.

Cross your fingers that we'll all figure this out.

You may want to try U-Scram which is what I planted in the areas in front of my apartment.  Ironically the day I was planting it, the outside cat came ambling by.  I actually like the guy very much, I just wish his human would keep him indoors for his own safety.  I live on a very busy boulevard.  Any way, he comes up to me and chills out.  I waved the U-Scram bag in front of him and he ran off.  I don't know if it works on every cat but it is really potent stuff.  I actually had to move the sticks further away because they were bothering me and my cats.

Peace is restored. Dosed Mr. Poe twice on Friday and on Saturday with diazepam (Valium), kept him isolated in a separate room. One dose this morning, then let him out. All is good. Will give him a half dose tomorrow, skip a day, half dose on Wednesday, then stop.

Just as #Feralvr said more than 2 weeks ago - IF there is any setback, for whatever reason, in the future you have the valium on hand now.

There was a set back, I had the Valium on hand, and did know what to do. So just a couple of days rather than a couple of weeks and peace is restored.

I had suspected from the start that this was the cause of the inside aggression - an outdoor visitor. I would like to suggest that you pick up a few of these and put them outside the house where you are seeing the cat most frequently pass by. I promise you that these WILL work for your problem and restore peace once again inside. There is also this product that I have heard works incredibly well too.
I am sorry Domino attacked Mr. Poe again but am glad you have your reason. Surely this can be resolved easily and their relationship will be completely back to normal. The sightings of outdoor cats coming around the house is usually the main reason for our inside kitties to begin fighting.

We'll see what happens - there was a minor skirmish before sunrise this morning. Mr. Poe ran into our bedroom, muttering to himself, and dived under the bed. Domino was in the hall with his eyes as big as saucers. Shut the door. Gave Mr. Poe his scheduled 1 ml dose of diazepam with breakfast, and my husband let him out mid-morning. All is calm and peaceful.

I'm wondering if Mr. Poe is becoming habituated to the occasional aggression, likewise Domino is not so furious.

I'll start reducing the dose / skipping a day / etc tomorrow.

The first attack was the most aggressive and took a couple of weeks to resolve. But that may be because we first tried isolating one or the other cat, Feliway, calming treats, none of which seemed to be very helpful. When we started with diazepam it was quickly O.K. to have the two of them loose in the house. The second one had less yelling, more fur pulling, and peace restored (with the medication) in two days. This morning was no shrieking and both cats loose in the house within hours.

@Feralvr, thanks for your suggestions. I have qualms about predator urine repellents, to wit - how do they collect it? Have a feeling it is not a very good life for the fox / coyote / big cat.

Will look for the Ssscat product the next time I'm at Pet Valu or another store and see what the label says.

I've seen a couple of new threads with inter-cat redirected aggression where it is taking a very long time to resolve. Every situation is different / every cat is different. I can only say that the diazepam has been a terrific solution for us and our cats. And I'm not someone who is fond of pharmaceutical solutions for me, let alone my animals.

Catapault said:

@Feralvr, thanks for your suggestions. I have qualms about predator urine repellents, to wit - how do they collect it? Have a feeling it is not a very good life for the fox / coyote / big cat.

Will look for the Ssscat product the next time I'm at Pet Valu or another store and see what the label says.

I've seen a couple of new threads with inter-cat redirected aggression where it is taking a very long time to resolve. Every situation is different / every cat is different. I can only say that the diazepam has been a terrific solution for us and our cats. And I'm not someone who is fond of pharmaceutical solutions for me, let alone my animals.

Click to expand...

I have no clue either as to how the pellets are manufactured. :dk: Have never tried them either but know of someone who has and had success with keeping neighborhood owned cats away from her house thus igniting fights indoors. I have used the SSScat air sprayer can before when we moved here to our new house. The windows go floor to ceiling and there was a neighborhood, collared, owned pet cat that was spraying my lower outdoor windows. I knew this would surely cause a major problem for my indoor cats so took immediate action - same day. We also had a couple of raccoons that would habitually come right up to the window and look in every evening. The SSScat system worked beautifully for us. I only bought two cans. placed them in the two most passed by locations and kept them out there for a few months and then took them away. Still no more problems and it has been a year. It taught my neighbor's cat to stay away. I see the raccoon walk by but he veers WAY out from the windows now. :lol3:

Glad that the medication is working for Mr. Poe and I am sure you won't need it for long spurts. Maybe just a few days here and there until you can get the root of the issue resolved. :cross:

Update: Mr Poe is off the rails again. Started muttering and screaming at Domino back in late August. Diazapam (Valium) calmed him down. Tapered him off, good for a few days, back to muttering and hiding under our bed.

Mind you, I now believe I was wrong at the beginning of this thread when I said Domino attacked Mr Poe. I think it was Mr Poe who, from fear, attacked Domino. And there is no rhyme or reason for these episodes. One day recently they were both napping at either end of a bed. I happened to look up from the computer to see Mr Poe get up, walk to the other end of the bed where Domino was curled up and bite him on the throat. Not neck, throat. I loudly said something like, hey, not nice! and he backed off. Or Mr Poe was in bed with us in the morning just before we got up, saw Domino just standing in the bedroom doorway and Mr Poe mutters and hides under the bed.

I am coming around to understanding that he has a mental condition and will need to be on medication for the rest of his life. Having dosed him with Valium yesterday morning and his being his happy self all day we decided to leave it until this morning. Except that at 5:30 a.m. he was grumbling and muttering and hiding under our bed again. Stumbled downstairs, put some food in his dish, squirted 1 ml of Valium on it. Shoved under the bed and climbed back in. He's fine now.
 

He's got something "off" in his brain. Problem is, we're going away this coming Friday for a week. So I will isolate him in our bedroom for the cat sitter to feed and clean a separate litter pan. But not medicate. When we get back I'll "load" him on the Valium with twice a day for two days (veterinarian had prescribed once or twice a day, as needed), drop to once a day, then every other day, then see if every second day can stabilize him. And that will be the routine.

He's such a sweet cat - but then he goes off the rails with fear of his housemate. And we've had the two of them since kittenhood. Thanks for letting me vent, this is an exhausting situation.

@StephanQ, any advice, suggestions, comments?

An update, years and years later. All is good. Have not medicated either cat for years and years. If neighbor's cat does come around, which is very, very infrequent, Domino utters a howl, rising to a banshee cry. As soon as either of us hears something we dash to whichever door it is, open it, and scream at the strange cat ourselves. Who runs away as soon as he hears the door unlocked. And Domino saunters off like "That takes care of that!"

The boys occasionally tussle, occasionally contest who gets to sleep where on the bed. But basically are happy and satisfied as two cats in one house.