At home euthanasia vs. vet's office

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wasabipea

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We had the vet come to our house to put our 13 year old darling Sophie to sleep in 2002. The vet administered the first injection but her heart was still beating and the vet then had to inject into her heart. She was actually brain dead after the first one but the vet didn't want to take any chances. I did find it very upsetting at the time but realised there wasn't much choice in the matter. If I had loads of spare money I would prefer the vet to come to my house as taking my fur babies to that final vet visit is traumatic for both me and my animals. It's not always possible though.
Yes, they are costly to come to the house, at least in my area - but I figured it was a one time cost - and well worth it if I can get her in the house in time. I'm going to ask the vet tonight when she goes in to check  the veins in her leg, or at least take a quick peek, to see if she thinks there may be an issue with the IV catheter for a home visit. I don't know if I could handle a shot in the heart, but I guess it was necessary in your case, and better to be certain.

And Feralvir, thanks for the good vibes and positive energy!

Yea, a hard topic to discuss, but one most of us have to face at one time or another unfortunately. :(
 
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betsygee

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I read--somewhere on TCS I'm sure--that it helps to put them in a carrier without a top to restrict their movement, and keep your hands more free to deal with the needle and the drip--a box with a towel could work as well.  Is Roni into treats at all?  I tried to distract Travis with treats and he wasn't buying it 
 but it helped with Molly.  She would be busy eating treats when I put the needle in and it helped distract her.  

Good luck at the vet's--I know it can be scary.   Remember why you're doing it--it's for Roni's sake.  You'll surprise yourself at what you're capable of.  
 

cocheezie

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A box helps to keep the cat from moving. I insert the needle somewhere around the shoulder blades - wherever I can get a good tent. And it depends on where you are in relation to the cat. The needle probably never in quite the same place twice. And yes, I've gone straight through the skin on occasion. You are going by feel. Sometimes when you make the tent, the skin you pick up sticks together. If you have a long-haired cat, you can't really tell until you notice the fluid running down her side. No big deal. Just turn off the fluids, re-stick and start again. A cat's skin is really tough. Many times at the beginning I thought I was in, but I was not. Most people use a 20-gauge needle. If your cat is docile, and doesn't try to leave halfway through the process, you might be able to get away with a 22-gauge needle (smaller but might make you feel better, but it takes a bit longer to get the fluid in). I was scared at first too, even though I was used to giving my other cat his insulin injection. For me, it was like that decision you have to make when waxing various body parts, you don't want to rip the strip off because it will hurt, but you are going to have to eventually, so you count to three (a couple of times), and just do it.
 

red top rescue

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In our area, there is an in-home euthanasia group called Sweet Dreams.  I am sending you a link because on their various tabs they explain EVERYTHING about the euthanasia process they use. Not all vets take advantage of the pre-anesthesia shot, which baffles me.  There is absolutely NO reason why a cat should be awake while someone is trying to find a vein (which is to protect the owners from an unpleasant experience, but the poor cat is taken out of the room and subjected to the placement of the catheter.)  All the overnight emergency clinics demand this procedure if you want to be with your animal when it is euthanized.  Fortunately, my own vet hospital is usually willing to come to the hospital at any hour for an emergency euthanasia, even though they are not equipped to handle other major emergencies at that time since there's no team on duty.

My vet hospital is one of a sister group of three that all three use pre-sedation euthanasia in their hospitals.  They believe it is the most humane method for both the animals and the owners, after many years of experience.  You bring your cat into the exam room, you can hold it in your arms if that's comfortable for your cat, and the vet administers a quick shot of ketamine into the butt -- no searching for a vein, a simple IM shot, which stings for an instant, you rub it and tell her it's all done, no more pain.  The vet then gives you a comfy chair, dims the lights and leaves you and your cat alone for maybe 10 minutes, during which time she purrs herself gently to sleep in your arms.  You feel her go into total anesthesia mode.  The vet comes back and checks.  If she is really under, no eye reflexes, they can then find a vein and give her the final shot.  In the rare cases where she's still a little awake, she can get either a little more time or another shot of ketamine,or both,  depending on the circumstances.  I've never experienced a cat having a bad reaction to the ketamine, they always seem happy and relaxed and then fall asleep gently.  I've never had a vet fail to find a vein quickly either since there is no struggle and the cat feels nothing, but if it were necessary to inject directly into the heart, that would not bother me because again, the cat is completely anesthetized and feels nothing.. After the final injection of the euthanasia solution, the vet listens to the heart to make sure it has stopped, which assures the owner that it is done.  I have always brought my cats home for burial and none of them has ever come back to life unexpectedly.  This is the same technique Sweet Dreams uses.  @furbabyvet, I do hope you will review the web link below and consider changing your euthanasia protocol to the pre-sedation method in the future. My vets are experienced, most of them over 50.  I myself am 70 and have been in rescue for 50 years, so I've had lots of experiences with euthanasia.  We ALL agree that pre-sedation is the best way and does not require placing a catheter, nor does it require the animal being removed from the owner's sight, ever.  We hope the new younger vets coming up in the world can learn from our experience.

http://www.sweetdreamsgeorgia.com/

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furbabyvet

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In our area, there is an in-home euthanasia group called Sweet Dreams.  I am sending you a link because on their various tabs they explain EVERYTHING about the euthanasia process they use. Not all vets take advantage of the pre-anesthesia shot, which baffles me.  There is absolutely NO reason why a cat should be awake while someone is trying to find a vein (which is to protect the owners from an unpleasant experience, but the poor cat is taken out of the room and subjected to the placement of the catheter.)  All the overnight emergency clinics demand this procedure if you want to be with your animal when it is euthanized.  Fortunately, my own vet hospital is usually willing to come to the hospital at any hour for an emergency euthanasia, even though they are not equipped to handle other major emergencies at that time since there's no team on duty.

My vet hospital is one of a sister group of three that all three use pre-sedation euthanasia in their hospitals.  They believe it is the most humane method for both the animals and the owners, after many years of experience.  You bring your cat into the exam room, you can hold it in your arms if that's comfortable for your cat, and the vet administers a quick shot of ketamine into the butt -- no searching for a vein, a simple IM shot, which stings for an instant, you rub it and tell her it's all done, no more pain.  The vet then gives you a comfy chair, dims the lights and leaves you and your cat alone for maybe 10 minutes, during which time she purrs herself gently to sleep in your arms.  You feel her go into total anesthesia mode.  The vet comes back and checks.  If she is really under, no eye reflexes, they can then find a vein and give her the final shot.  In the rare cases where she's still a little awake, she can get either a little more time or another shot of ketamine,or both,  depending on the circumstances.  I've never experienced a cat having a bad reaction to the ketamine, they always seem happy and relaxed and then fall asleep gently.  I've never had a vet fail to find a vein quickly either since there is no struggle and the cat feels nothing, but if it were necessary to inject directly into the heart, that would not bother me because again, the cat is completely anesthetized and feels nothing.. After the final injection of the euthanasia solution, the vet listens to the heart to make sure it has stopped, which assures the owner that it is done.  I have always brought my cats home for burial and none of them has ever come back to life unexpectedly.  This is the same technique Sweet Dreams uses.  @furbabyvet, I do hope you will review the web link below and consider changing your euthanasia protocol to the pre-sedation method in the future. My vets are experienced, most of them over 50.  I myself am 70 and have been in rescue for 50 years, so I've had lots of experiences with euthanasia.  We ALL agree that pre-sedation is the best way and does not require placing a catheter, nor does it require the animal being removed from the owner's sight, ever.  We hope the new younger vets coming up in the world can learn from our experience.

http://www.sweetdreamsgeorgia.com/
@Red Top Rescue  In my post above, I mentioned sedation with an injection in the muscle or under the skin. I think maybe something was lost in translation as I was recommending sedation, with or without an IV catheter. I'm not too far from 50 myself, but I take it as a compliment that you're including me in the group of "younger vets." :)

It's wonderful that you have vets who make your experience peaceful. Hopefully everyone will be better informed as to the options and and different possible scenarios after reading this thread.
 

peaches08

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Another thing about sticking a cat with a needle:  DON'T go slow when sticking the cat.  The slower you go, the more the needle drags and that hurts.  Think of it kind of like a dart.  It's harder to drive the dart slowly into a dart board, but a quick throw lets it stick into the board easily.  Same thing with needles.  No, don't throw it. 
  But the quicker poke is easier on everybody.

When I warmed fluids, I filled the sink with hot tap water, then placed the bag in but propped it so the drip chamber and tubing stayed outside of the water.  By the time the sink water and fluids were about the same temperature, it was about the right temp.  Better than cold fluids, anyway.  Then I ran the fluid through the line until I got warm fluid, then hooked it up to Grey (RIP).  Some poke and then attach the fluid line to the hub of the needle, some put the needle on the line then poke.  Either is fine.  The advantage with poking then attaching is you know instantly if you've hit a vein, which we don't want.  That's a rare occurrence and I've never hit one, but I "tented" pretty well too. 

Urinating outside of the box..it may be habit, or something is still wrong.  It may even be the box.  It may be "stained" with odors that you can't smell.  Or jumping into it is too much on her older and full bladder.  Or the litter isn't comfortable on her paws.  Is she peeing near the box?  That makes me think that she wants to use the box, but something about it isn't comfortable.  If it isn't near the box, I'd say habit has stepped in and you're going to have to retrain her litter box habits.

Your vet's comment...it's possible it really wasn't directed at you.  And if it was, so be it.  An increased BUN is often just dehydration, which isn't worth putting most cats to sleep over IMO.  If so, I dare most vets to test cat's BUN after a meal of dry food.
 
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wasabipea

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They told me the BUN wasn't as important as the creatinine, which is why I was shocked when it came back as normal a year ago - it went down maybe .5.

I'm pretty sure my vet used the pre sedation injection and then came in after it took effect and another injection and that was it. I don't recall a catheter, but again - I was paying attention to Len and letting the vet do her thing, I figured she knew what she was doing. I let Len lay on the table, he seemed more comfortable that way with the edema and his breathing was beginning to get labored. I just pulled up a chair, and pet him and rested my head next to his - didn't really watch her.

I have learned a lot about a somewhat taboo topic from this thread. Went into the decision so quickly with Len, I had about a day to find out he was terminal, brought him home for one last night at home, and when he tried to get in his box, he gave up and soiled himself - I said "no more" and we made our appt for the next day. The poor guy. RIP sweet Len. Everything went without a hitch though, and I think she used the sedative injection and then the final shot and it was over with very quickly and seemed painless and stress free. I never knew there were so many methods of euthanasia.

Re: Fluids. One of the techs gave me a needle and told me to go home and practice on a hand towel. On the cat, she showed me how to tent and the empty space to feel for, and then said to tent a not-too-thick, regular hand towel sized towel and to stick the needle in that. That was similar to how it would feel when I broke thru the skin. I think I know what to expect, feel-wise. I'll have to find out what gauge needle they use. She usually only gets 125-200cc max, and when they squeeze the bag- it's less than 2-3 minutes of fluid time. I do realize the quick poke will hurt less, but I am nervous about going straight thru and out the other side. If that happens, can I just pull the needle back a bit instead of having to stick her again? She is a treat eater, but won't fall for the "treat distraction" game I don't think... I will try it though.

I can do this... I can do this.... I really can.

At my vets office they throw the whole fluid bag in the microwave, any reason why you leave the tubing out of the hot water, peaches? and yes, for some reason at my vets, they insert the needle and then attach the line - that's where it gets dicey with only one pair of hands - I'd much rather attach the line before doing the poke. I'd hate to have her get away, running around the house with a needle stuck in her. and at the vets, they keep her in the lower portion of her box, I think it makes her feel safer. I'll probably do the same, or use a cardboard box with something cushy in it.

Urinating outside the box has become habit I think. My sofa became her last pee target and after much cleaning, disenfecting and painting Kilz on the frame, it is now covered with a blanket and a thin plastic painting sheet. She still pees on the plastic sheet, I figure if she is going to go outside the box... knock yourself out, cat. Plastic can be our friend (plus it makes urine collection a lot easier when I need to - lol)
 

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I made that remark about my vet being over both of us because one time we were having a general conversation about euthanasia and she made an off the cuff remark something like "there are some clients I wish would just put those pets down" - she immediately corrected herself and said she was kidding, but now it's in the back of my head that me and Roni probably fall under that category if she was serious. It made me think twice about her level of compassion, while she still provides good care.
Oh my :nono: - on your vet making that comment. That is the kind of comment that a client would soon not forget, if ever. I would definitely not see my vet in the same light if she blurted something out like that. I probably would have to find another vet - but that is just me. Since she said it - then she meant it on some level. On the other side of the coin, I am sure there are the people who do let their pet linger and linger and suffer with not much hope, then I could see a vet thinking that but really should keep the thought to herself.

:vibes::vibes::vibes::vibes::vibes::vibes::vibes::vibes::vibes: for Roni today. :rub: And continue to try to stay positive (Hard, I know) but it will help Roni just a little bit. I have a very sick elderly dog but he is not ready to go yet. The care involved is MUCH but I would not have it any other way. I have learned to try to live each day - each hour :lol3:, as it comes, in the present and not think about tomorrow where he is concerned because then I just get sad and stressed. It seems to be working too. I am quite cheerful around him - forced or not - it helps Henry.
 
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Yes, creatinine is the number that really tells you about kidney function.  And yes, I've poked into a spot I didn't quite like, then pulled back and repositioned it where I wanted it.  No big deal.  I leave the drip chamber and tubing out because I'm afraid of "something" entering the puncture site on the bag of fluids, where we poke the bag with the tubing.  It would just be my luck, so I always left it out.  You don't lose enough fluid to matter when "running the line" until the warm water appears at the end of the tubing.  I don't like microwaves, but that's me.  So long as you don't get it to hot and don't have hot spots, then I'd guess you're fine.

When I first started giving fluids, I waited until the times when Grey was sleeping.  She was just less likely to fight me then.  The poke was the worst part, but again she recognized the routine after a while so it was an OK thing to her.  You will find what works for you.

Putting animals to sleep...it would be so nice if it were cut and dried as to when is right.  I have a tendency to try everything in the book before putting them to sleep, so maybe I let them linger too long.  But considering the number of human patients I've dealt with that were forced into life-prolonging procedures when they themselves didn't want it...and yes it happens much more often than people think.  I think the difference in what I do for my pets is I get to send them on peacefully when the jig is up.
 
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wasabipea

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Oh my
- on your vet making that comment. That is the kind of comment that a client would soon not forget, if ever. I would definitely not see my vet in the same light if she blurted something out like that. I probably would have to find another vet - but that is just me. Since she said it - then she meant it on some level. On the other side of the coin, I am sure there are the people who do let their pet linger and linger and suffer with not much hope, then I could see a vet thinking that but really should keep the thought to herself.

for Roni today.
And continue to try to stay positive (Hard, I know) but it will help Roni just a little bit. I have a very sick elderly dog but he is not ready to go yet. The care involved is MUCH but I would not have it any other way. I have learned to try to live each day - each hour
, as it comes, in the present and not think about tomorrow where he is concerned because then I just get sad and stressed. It seems to be working too. I am quite cheerful around him - forced or not - it helps Henry.
Actually she made the comment before Len was declared terminal and Roni was still in pretty good shape, but it defintiely stuck with me and now I'm wondering if she thinks to her inner self that I'm keeping Roni around too long. Hey, I already made an in-office appt to put her down - but she bounced back, and as you said - she's not ready to go yet. I don't believe her to be suffering either, poor girl is just getting old and a bit beaten down. Even though she is such a good little traveler and the techs all love her, it's time for me to start doing the subQs at home, lighten her stress level a bit. Thank you for the positive thoughts. I don't think it was aimed at me at the time, but now I feel like "that" client.

Peaches, I try not to blindside the cat when she is sleeping - but that might not be a bad idea... I don't want her to accociate her bed with "bad" things. She was sleeping in the bed that her and Len used to share, but now she is down to the one. she doesn't seem to like the old one these days.

I read somewhere that if you have a cat that isn't eating, a good time to try to feed them is to go and wake them because their defenses are low and they respond more by instinct when they are still half asleep. Sometimes I used to pill her that way, even though we got our routine down now. Maybe I'll get one of those "heat lamps" and put it by the fluid-giving box - she loves to lay in the sun, and if she could be nice and warm, maybe she'd "dig it". I wish someone spoiled me the way I spoil her!
 
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When I had to put my gentle down the vet who who did it was very kind. I held gentle from beginning to end and then she left me alone in the surgery. She first sedated her and then the injection that sent hr to RB.
I held gentle so tightly and close something she would never have allowed and I soaked her riyju my tears. I'm ashamed to say I did not vtuu quietly. I loved that spiteful cat of mine.
Lotto neatly died when our dog, his best friend died.
Lotto was sent to RB at home. Also 2 injections. He died in my arms.
It hurts so much as we all know.
 

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Actually she made the comment before Len was declared terminal and Roni was still in pretty good shape, but it defintiely stuck with me and now I'm wondering if she thinks to her inner self that I'm keeping Roni around too long. Hey, I already made an in-office appt to put her down - but she bounced back, and as you said - she's not ready to go yet. I don't believe her to be suffering either, poor girl is just getting old and a bit beaten down. Even though she is such a good little traveler and the techs all love her, it's time for me to start doing the subQs at home, lighten her stress level a bit. Thank you for the positive thoughts. I don't think it was aimed at me at the time, but now I feel like "that" client.
Yes - still a comment such as that would stick to me and one I would not forget. I think we all have made "those" appts. too and then cancelled because of our dear darling having a reprieve and turnaround. I did it with my Wilbur once or twice. They seem to rally on just when you thought it was the end. Yeah - getting older is lousy and we are all headed that way one way or another. It is just super tough because our pets can't tell us where, how much, or when it hurts. We have to be their barometer daily. It is draining emotionally but we do it because they are a part of us - our hearts. :heart3:

SubQ's. are fairly simple to do and hopefully Roni will be a good patient for momma. :cross: :vibes::vibes::vibes::vibes: I think they know when we are trying to do good by them and surrender to our love and care. :nod:
 
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Since there are no coincidences, I just opened my email to find the post from The Conscious Cat today is an article titled "Euthanasia, A Vet's Perspective," written by Elzabeth Colleran, DVM.  Here is a link for those of you interested in reading it.

http://consciouscat.net/2014/06/23/euthanasia-vets-perspective/
Wow - what timing! Thanks, I'm sure we can all learn a thing or two.
Timing - yes - perfect. Thanks for sharing this here. :hugs:
 
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wasabipea

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Yes - still a comment such as that would stick to me and one I would not forget. I think we all have made "those" appts. too and then cancelled because of our dear darling having a reprieve and turnaround. I did it with my Wilbur once or twice. They seem to rally on just when you thought it was the end. Yeah - getting older is lousy and we are all headed that way one way or another. It is just super tough because our pets can't tell us where, how much, or when it hurts. We have to be their barometer daily. It is draining emotionally but we do it because they are a part of us - our hearts.


SubQ's. are fairly simple to do and hopefully Roni will be a good patient for momma.
I think they know when we are trying to do good by them and surrender to our love and care.
Actually the tech was trying to show me the other day, and we tented and he showed me with my finger where to go. We kind of did it together, I held the needle while he did the stick. Maybe we can switch places tonight and I can try the stick part and if he thinks I'm going too slow he can take over. But we were talking and pulling skin, and poking her for like 7 minutes at least, and she was so good and just sat there in her carier and didn't make an iota of fuss. She was such a good girl.

I don't trust what my vet is telling me know, I think that she wants to tell me certain thing to get me to put her down. I used to feel really good about going there, that they cared, and now I feel like I'm being judged. Really dont need to feel that way right now, I'm really trying to make the right choices for her and now I'm all in a kerfluffle that the vet thinks I'm an idiot. She really is ok at home, good days and bad days, but not to the point of crossing the bridge, I don't think.
 
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feralvr

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Actually the tech was trying to show me the other day, and we tented and he showed me with my finger where to go. We kind of did it together, I held the needle while he did the stick. Maybe we can switch places tonight and I can try the stick part and if he thinks I'm going too slow he can take over. But we were talking and pulling skin, and poking her for like 7 minutes at least, and she was so good and just sat there in her carier and didn't make an iota of fuss. She was such a good girl.

I don't trust what my vet is telling me know, I think that she wants to tell me certain thing to get me to put her down. I used to feel really good about going there, that they cared, and now I feel like I'm being judged. Really dont need to feel that way right now, I'm really trying to make the right choices for her and now I'm all in a kerfluffle that the vet thinks I'm an idiot. She really is ok at home, good days and bad days, but not to the point of crossing the bridge, I don't think.
Wow - Roni does seem like such a sweetie with subq fluids. I think they know deep down that this will help them to feel better so they allow it. It is scary to begin doing it for the first time but once you get it down and have a wiling patient, it becomes quite easy to do.

I am really, really sorry you have lost confidence in your vet because yes, this is the worst time for it. Still, you don't have to keep going to her, paying her and feeling the way you do. Not good for you or for Roni and you want those last moments together to be beautiful and not tainted by negative thoughts of your vet. Of course, that is just me talking :lol3:, but I would try to find another vet for Roni. Your need 100% support and need to feel that you can trust your vet so that you are both on the same side, the same team, working together for Roni's benefit. You know your cat better than any vet out there and you will know when it is finally time to let her go to the bridge. My thoughts are with you as this is an extremely trying and emotional time. We are here for you !!!!!!!!!!!! :hugs: :vibes::vibes:
 
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wasabipea

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Wow - Roni does seem like such a sweetie with subq fluids. I think they know deep down that this will help them to feel better so they allow it. It is scary to begin doing it for the first time but once you get it down and have a wiling patient, it becomes quite easy to do.

<respectfully snipped>
That's why I just can't bring myself to take her to the office to have her PTS. She has the routine down pat, and years ago when she had a crash and had to go a lot, she was so scared I promised her that it was only going to be a quick trip and she would feel better and she would always come home with me. She settled into it, and it's really not traumatizing for her now unless they "break routine" and take an x-ray, or blood - then she is ornery when she gets home.

While she was hating on me last night, this AM she jumped onto the bed and did her "good morning" routine of rubbing and purring and prancing in circles and rubbing more. I was an hour late for work because I couldn't give up that time.

I may have found a vet that will come to my house tomorrow evening to do the procedure. I think she is starting to go downhill, and I don't want her to get to the true suffering point. I can still get baby food into her, but not much and only a small amount at a time. She has the runs. Lethargic. She even showed little interest in he catmint outside last night, usually she scrathes at it to break the leaves and release the scent and dunks her head in it - last night she just kind of looked at it. I guess it's just about time.

I suppose if we have to go to the office, I'm going to have them act like they are doing the fluids, then slip her the sedative. My poor girl. Freaking cancer taking both my furbabies in a matter of two months. I haven't been cat-free in... well a really long time.
 
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Don't think you will be fooling her.  She will know, but she will also know what you are promising her is peace and freedom from pain and the burden her body has become lately, and that you would only let her go because you love her so much you don't want her to suffer.  If you approach euthanasia with that much conviction and love, the cats get it and they are calm and peaceful.  It still breaks my heart every time I remember one of those goodbyes, but I have no regrets for any of them.  The only regret I have is for the one I DIDN'T do soon enough.  Every one since has been a do-over for the one time I got it wrong.  Our hearts are with you in this difficult time.
 
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wasabipea

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Don't think you will be fooling her.  She will know, but she will also know what you are promising her is peace and freedom from pain and the burden her body has become lately, and that you would only let her go because you love her so much you don't want her to suffer.  If you approach euthanasia with that much conviction and love, the cats get it and they are calm and peaceful.  It still breaks my heart every time I remember one of those goodbyes, but I have no regrets for any of them.  The only regret I have is for the one I DIDN'T do soon enough.  Every one since has been a do-over for the one time I got it wrong.  Our hearts are with you in this difficult time.
I know she won't be fooled, they have a sixth sense that we can't even comprehend. She used to know "vet" days as soon as I got home from work and that was back when they upset meand her, and she would hide. She looks pretty good today and i think I'm going to try to get another weekend out of her. She is roaming around and eating a little and purring on my lap... she doesn't look uncomfy, I just need a little more time with her. She's my last kitty and has the burden of being criminally adorable. The vet that will come here is the next town over and while he can come tomorrow, I told them I'd call first thing tomorrow am either way.
I think this has been festering in her for so long, a couple more days for her won't change things much, but I really need the time.

But we will reassess first thing in the morning. Thanks, please don't judge - mentally I'm in a bad spot for many reasons - not just the kitties, even tho they are the worst. We'll see how tomorrow goes.
 
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