New Rescue kittens

Six weeks ago I brought home two rescue kittens at age 8 weeks.  Essentially I was in charge of weaning them from their mom. 

I started them out on Royal Canin dry and wet kitten and it gave them gas, bloating, cramping and diarrhea. 

Over the course of the last 3 weeks they have been dewormed by the vet three times and are now on Forti Flora.  I changed their food to

Instinct by Natures Variety.  First I went for the limited diet of just turkey and their diarrhea worsened.  I then changed them to just dry crunchies

duck and turkey formula and they have been on this diet for the last 3 weeks.. 

One of the kittens is thriving, he is three times the size of his sibling and right on clue for age and weight.  His sibling is way underweight.  He is almost 3 pounds, she is 1.5 pounds and I can feel her ribs (very little fat on her), she is soo tiny and having the most diarrhea again.  Her brother's bowel movements are firm and well formed.  I took her off of all wet food and she is being fed separately from her brother who pushes her aside and she just sits there and watches.

I asked my vet for Rebound and she refused to prescribe this as it has fat soluble vitamins in it. I thought it would help her thrive more.

I am giving her one more week of loose stools then taking her back in to the vets again.  She his not dehydrated, they both eat well, and play hard

They both have had a round of Panacur, Albon, all fecal tests (parasites, ova and Giardia) comes back negative.

The mother tested negative for feline leukemia/aids, so I don't necessarily think this may be the cause of the little girls' issues. 

She did have firm bowel movements when she first came here and off and on, but now mostly it's pudding like.

When they were both on Royal Canin Kitten they each were producing diarrhea movements once an hour, it was concerning, hence why I put them both on a grain free diet.

Any suggestions?

Thank you :-)

The female kitten needs to go back to the vet. She has had diarrhea for way too long for it to clear up on its own.

Perhaps she has a malabsorption disorder (B12 deficiency) or another problem unrelated to parasites.

While it is unlikely for the kittens to be FIV/FeLV positive when the mom is negative, it is certainly not out of the question. We have a 3.5 yr old in our rescue that is FeLV postive...mom is negative, litter mate brother was negative too. We had this girl tested 4 times over a 1.5 yr period just hoping she would "zero convert." She never did.

What food were the kittens eating before you got them?

Are you using any topical medications on them?

Are there any plants she could be eating?

I agree that she needs to go back to the vet. . .but try a stronger probiotic. Just a sprinkle of a good live culture brand (Fortiflora has dead cultures) in each meal should help at least a bit. And maybe an enzyme like Prozyme if she's not absorbing her nutrients.

But she does need to see the vet. . .she could have a liver shunt or other problem that isn't fixable with supplements and food.

I have had very good success with Fancy Feast kitten food (canned of course). It's higher in fat and calories and kittens seem to really like it too.

Hello Willowy ~  How do you determine if the kitten has a liver shunt? 

CatPak ~  The kittens were nursing on their mom when I got them, I was in charge of weaning them. The person that gave me the kittens suggested Purina Kitten, but I started them both on Royal Canin kitten food which did not go over well with the robust male. Right away he had either a bad allergic reaction or intolerance to the food and once I switched him over, all the symptoms went away and he's been fine since then. 

She had  intermittent well formed bowel movements but is now having more diarrhea days than solid days. I did put a little Metamucil in her crunchies along with the Fortiflora tonight.  I'll make the appt with my vet, you are correct in that I have been battling this with her far to long.

I keep no plants in my home what-so-ever.

I have not given them any topical medicines at all, just waiting until they get older for flea prevention.

In the back of my mind, since she has never been a robust kitten I have feared feline aids or leukemia. 

Thank you for your suggestions :-)

LuvMyCat6204

.

P.S.  Was looking up Fancy Feast Kitten Turkey and it has milk as one of the ingredients ... thought cats were not supposed to be given milk, any thoughts?

Thanks again.

Vets can do tests for a liver shunt or other birth defect. But my hope is that she just doesn't have a healthy tummy and isn't efficiently using the nutrients she eats. Probiotics and enzymes can help with that.

Kittens can still digest lactose, adult cats lose that ability. But canned food probably has the lactose cooked out so that shouldn't be a problem anyway.

If you use Metamucil, you MUST mix it with a lot of water or it can really block them up. Maybe a grain-inclusive kibble would firm things up? Some cats don't do very well with grain-free kibble (canned should be OK). If you don't want to switch brands, I think Nature's Variety has a grain-inclusive variety.

Hi Willowy ~  I gave a pinch of Metamucil in a watered down tablespoon of Dave's grain free wet food that they like.  They refused Instinct wet limited diet turkey, would only paw around it and walk away.  The dry is Instinct turkey and duck grain free. 

I picked the grain free food due to the male cat's reaction to Royal Canin Kitten and once I got him on Natures Variety Instinct dry Turkey and Duck, they both accepted this.  Since I free feed them both, I wanted to keep them both on the same foods for awhile... but maybe I will have to feed them separately.

I'm sorry, it's not Metamucil it's Miralax that I gave them tonight.  I have tried Pumpkin but they won't go near it.

Thank you for your feedback :-)

LuvMyCat6204

Did your vet test for Fluke Worms?

The eggs from flukes are not detectable in a standard flotation test.

Fluke eggs are heavy, and will sink.

They need a Sedimentation test.

Also - you can add Baby Rice Cereal to their food to help against the Diarrhea.

Or - Instant mashed Potatoes (Betty Crocker makes a PLAIN one - without a lot of chemicals).

Both will dissolve instantly in wet foods.

Jackie Page    Jackie Page's Animal Network

This is to add to my previous post about Fluke Worms:

The standard wormers given to kittens/cats WILL NOT kill Fluke Worms.

Drug of Choice is Praziquantel - which, I believe, needs to be given in a stronger dose than for tapeworms.

OR - Panacur over a PROLONGED period  (Works only for certain Flukes).

DO NOT use Albendazole - which is used for flukes in cattle - but can cause harm to cats.

Many vets are not familiar with Fluke Worms in cats (especially if they have a Fluke Worm that is found more normally in other animals - like cattle).  You may need to locate a vet that is.

Jackie Page     Jackie Page's Animal Network

Thank you AnimalPal.  These two kittens were born on a farm with horses, do horses get Fluke Worms?

I withdrew food for 8 hours last night, giving her tummy time to calm down a bit, but got up to find blow out diarrhea, but haven't seen any today.

I am adding rice, Miralax and pumpkin to her wet food only in very small quantities today and see how that goes.

She is a big water drinker, but will add water to the mixture as well.

I have made an appt with the vet and will be taking her in.

Thank you for your help :-)

Miralax is a stool softener, not a bulking agent. I don't think it will help with making stool firmer :dk:.

Thank you Willowy ~ I'll stop the Miralax.  Every three hours will give her a small mixture of the rice, pumpkin, and Daves wet food (turkey formula).  What else might you suggest between now and when I take her in to see her vet? Is pumpkin okay, or should I just stick to rice and the turkey wet food by Daves.

So far, it's been 6 hours since a bowel movement. 

LuvMyCat6204

TO LUVMYCATS -

Yes, horses do get Flukes.  Cats can get these horse fluke worms.  And, there are many types of Fluke Worms - some of which are pretty specific to cats.

If this kitty does have fluke worms, it's possible that her littermate - and the mom cat - have them too - Even without symptoms.

If the test is negative, I THINK it may have to be repeated.

If the problem is NOT Fluke Worms, and the diarrhea cause remains unknown, I would suggest trying some 4Life Transfer Factor to build up her system.

In my experience, this has been INCREDIBLE in curing/controlling virtually any illness.  And, it also helps with pain.  And, with Healing properly.
 

Transfer Factor builds up the immune system QUICKLY by introducing immune molecules into the body - and causing the body to produce MORE of its own White Blood Cells. 

Transfer Factor is VERY safe.   It contains Transfer Factor Molecules (A Medical Term) - which are the same molecules that babies get from mom's first milk (Colostrum) - which passes on Mom's immunities to the baby.   And, it will not interfere with any medications. (Except - INDIRECTLY - with High Dose Steroids.   Steroids knock down the body's immune cells.  Transfer Factor builds them up.   So, they work at cross-purposes).  Before antibiotics, many doctors used TF for patients with serious issues.  It is included in The Physician's Desk Reference (From 2001 or 2003)

[TF can also help defeat ALLERGIES when taken internally.  Because - since it increases all White Blood Cells, it ALSO increases the White Blood Cells whose function it is to keep the body from responding to antigens that cause allergies.  It can also be used topically].

I have used TF for myself to keep my Lyme Disease under control - and I've used it (In VERY HIGH doses) to save the lives of animals that vets had given up on.  I became a distributor to get better pricing - because I use so much for myself and for my own cats.

If you use it internally on a cat (or person!) – IF the cat has a high germ load -

It's unlikely - but, this could make the Diarrhea worse temporarily - because the TF kills off so many germs quickly – that a high load of toxins from these germs are released into the blood – which is what can lead to  diarrhea.  So, if needed, maybe INCREASE the binders (instant mashed potatoes (Plain – to avoid chemical ingredients) – or baby cereal rice cereal). 

It's best to start off with a low dose of TF - (1/2 capsule for adult cat) (1/4 Capsule for a kitten  - and increase with each meal if the diarrhea doesn't worsen.  Up to a level that seems to WORK.  (Maybe up to 4-6/Day?)

It's safe.  I don't think it's possible to overdose.  I've given as much as 1 capsule PER HOUR to a 7 week old kitten (who was maybe 1 lb) who was dying.  The kitten rallied!

(You can mix it with a little babyfood - especially good for cats/kittens you have to hand-feed.)  (Gerber's Chicken & Gravy is best)

I recommend the TRANSFER FACTOR CLASSIC Formula.  This is a human formula, but, can be used cross-species.   I like it this formulation best because it has no additional ingredients - ONLY Transfer Factor Molecules.  And, I specify the company 4LIfe - because this is the only company I have found that manufactures a formula with only PURE Transfer Factor Molecules - without other supplements or additives.

PS: Transfer Factors are NOT the same as Colostrum - which you can find easily in Health Food Stores.  4Life TF Molecules are EXTRACTED from the colostrum – so they are MUCH MORE CONCENTRATED (2000x).  And - since it doesn't contain any milk (Which Colostrum does) - it can be used Cross-Species).

It is fairly expensive - but - well worth the price.  ($39/Bottle for 90 capsules).  Cats GENERALLY like the taste.  I have found that they will often lick the TF powder off the top of their food

before they eat the rest!  If this doesn’t happen, you can mix it in with a small amount of food)]

To get 4Life TRANSFER FACTOR:    They do not sell in Retail Stores (except rarely).  You can buy from the site (4Life.com) - or from a Distributor. 

GOOD LUCK,    Jackie Page     

To Luvmycats -

Since the kitty has had diarrhea for an extended time - you should give him/her some Pedialyte Fluid (unflavored),

as her electrolytes will be depleted from the diarrhea.  This can be very dangerous.

Get the Brand Name, as some generics have extra unwanted ingredients.

You can add some to her water (Maybe equal to 1/4 of the water in her bowl) - and to her food.

Jackie Page  

Thank you AnimalPal ~ I asked my vet over the phone and she said Pedialite is for children only and not for cats. ...... okay... moving on . I wanted to order Rebound as I had a kittens years ago this really helped, but because of the fat soluable vitamins they told me not to get it as it could be toxic to my kitten at this age.....

I just want to say that today is the first day of solid well formed non-smelly bowel movements.  I took their wet food (Dave's) mixed it half with white rice and Forti Flora these last three days and today is the first good result. I stopped giving them the Instinct crunchies and wanted to narrow down only one food.  Hoping this continues.  They are not dehydrated as  part of the mixture I puree is one part filtered water. Their appetites have increased along with their activity level :-)

Now, I have another issues to bring forth. I had asked my vet about this little girl's rib cage.  It's soo short and it seems her abdomen hangs out from the rib cage. I worry if her heart is protected with the rough and tumble her litter mate imposes on her.  Never saw this in a cat before. I had asked the vet about it and she said not to worry, she will grow into her rib cages.  However, her sibbling does not have this strange rib cage structure.  Has anyone heard of this before?

Thank you :-)  I'm still taking her in on Friday.

LuvMyCat6204

Ugh, your vet either doesn't know anything or is trying to get you to bring the kitten in for fluids. Pedialyte is an extremely valuable resource for treating mild dehydration in sick cats (or dogs or ferrets or. . .). Of course get the unflavored kind, but it's definitely safe and effective. If you don't want to buy a whole thing of Pedialyte, you can make a homemade version with salt and sugar. Google for "oral rehydration therapy recipe" and you can see how to make it. That is, if you think she's dehydrated. If not, don't worry about it.

You can also use vanilla Pediasure/Ensure to get nutrients into a sick cat.

Half rice will make her meals unbalanced so don't do it for too long or she'll miss out on necessary nutrients. Try to cut it down to less than 10%, if you do it slowly hopefully her tummy won't get upset.

You can buy Nutrical at any pet store. Not sure if it's similar to Rebound but it seems to work well.

Thank you Willowy ~  I am taking her to a new vet that I regard is good with diagnostics, which will be a third opinion and see where I can go from there.  The stools are becoming well formed now, so will slowly wean them off of the rice mixture as now they are pawing around the bowl and not happy with it. Thanks for your information about the Pedialyte.  I want to check out her ribs as if she has this rib condition it can cause her not to thrive which may be why she is 1/2 the size of her sibbling.

LuvMyCat6204

LUV MY CATS:

Hopefully, you have put a stop to the diarrhea with your new feeding approach.  But, I have never heard of a vet advising against using Pedialyte for a cat/kitten with extended diarrhea. 

And, Just because you are adding water to the food - this does not mean that the kitten is hydrated. Diarrhea causes a loss of electrolytes from the body.  Without enough of these electrolytes - your kitten's tissues

cannot HOLD the water it takes in, and will become dehydrated.

Kittens, especially, can die very quickly from loss of electrolytes. SOUNDS like you have things under control for now, but, still - You still should have someone to test the kitten for dehydration.

The pinch test is a very easy test: you can do yourself once you're familiarized with it.  You just take the loose skin at the nape of the neck - Pinch it up high between two fingers - and then - let it go.

(You should watch from the SIDE - so you can see the return more accurately)

In a normally hydrated cat - the skin will SNAP back so fast - you won't see it moving.  If you can see the skin going down - even if it's fairly quickly - the cat is dehydrated.

The more slowly the skin goes back - the more dehydrated the cat is.  Ask your vet to show this procedure to you on your kitten.

With severe dehydration - cat would need sub-cutaneous fluids - ASAP.  (You can easily do this at home. Your vet can show you).  With light dehydration - Putting some Pedialyte in the water should suffice.

PS:  I would reconsider the catfood you're using (Dave's).  I checked one of their formulas (Turkey & Giblets) - and found it contains CARRAGEENAN.  This is found in many canned cat foods (and people foods).  Carrageenan in extremely Carcinogenic.  It's so carcinogenic - that it's even used in Lab animals to TRIGGER cancer.  (Companies will tell you that they use only the "safe" form (which, I believe is the High Molecular Weight form).  BUT - this converts to the UNSAFE form in the stomach - due to the stomach acids). 

IT'S ALSO POSSIBLE THAT YOUR KITTY HAS BEEN HAVING DIARRHEA BECAUSE HE/SHE IS REACTING TO THE CARRAGEENAN.

Carrageenan is also notorious for causing GASTROINTESTINAL ISSUES.  Carrageenan can cause permanent damage to the liver, intestines, etc. 

Some good premium brands that have formulas without Carrageenan are:  Nature's Variety INSTINCT, Evanger's, Petguard, Weruva.

[You can find these at good prices on the internet  - with ingredient listings - at petfooddirect]

You need to READ BACK LABEL INGREDIENTS very carefully - as - even within the same brand - some of the formulations DO  contain Carrageenan - and some DO NOT.

Also avoid Ethoxyquin - which is also Carcinogenic.- but not used as frequently as Carrageenan.

[I would also avoid feeding FISH - as it is not a natural food for cats.  They don't digest it properly or metabolize it properly.

And - avoid LIVER - unless it's ID'd as ORGANIC or from POULTRY (Liver holds toxins. Poultry don't live as long - so its liver will hold fewer toxins.)

I follow this protocol with my 10 cats - and - MY CATS DO NOT SHED!  (Except at shedding season - 3 times/year)

GOOD LUCK,  Jackie Page     

Hi AnimalPal ~  Thank you sooo much for your very detailed post back to ms.  I am just back from the vets.  She was given a shot of Ivomectin and Centrine, a fecal floatation to test again for parasites, ova or Giardia, and we changed the food to Hills ID  (it does not have the Carrageenan in it) for a few days just to see how she does with this. Thank you for pointing about about Carrageenan as I had forgotten about this ingredient..  My vet asked me not to feed anymore Dave's.  I do have a case of Natures Variety Instinct turkey formula, limited ingredient.  Next week I go back for a checkup and reassess her health and see what he suggests for her diet going forward. 

I am waiting for a call back from my vet on the Pedalyte.  I had purchased some unflavored several days ago but his partner said no to pedylate, so waiting to hear what he has to say.  He did mention that sub-q fluids were not needed. I have been doing the snap test on her back, sides and checking her gums for tackiness.

I'll keep you posted and again... thank you soo much for your help !!!

She does, however have a hole in her sternum which will be addressed at a later date.

LuvMyCat6204

Just heard from my vet and he wants me to give her Pedalyte unflavored until her diarrhea resolves itself. 

Thank you for your suggestion !!!

LuvMyCat6204

Today, both kittens have accepted Hills Prescription I/D and the Pedylte mixed in their water..

I hope to get to the bottom of the chronic diarrhea.

LuvMyCat6204