Dandruff on raw?

Hello raw feeders,

I have two kitties (10 months & 11 months), one of which is eating a complete raw diet for about 3 months. I've noticed, however, in the past few weeks, Maya has been getting dandruff despite that.  She's fed mostly a commercial brand I get from my local pet stores, which does consist of salmon oil in their ground meat. I've also tried adding fish oil to increase the Omega-3, but doing so only deterred her from consuming her meal. Since then, I've added Tiki Cat Tahitian Grill (Sardine cutlets) and she's eating them without a problem now.

I'm wondering if adding fish will make Maya a fish addict (she also loves tuna), even though this is a temporary measure. Should I cut back on her sardines to once a week? I've been adding about a teaspoonful only as a supplement to her morning meal only. I know folks on prey model raw diets feed their cats sardines packed in water once a week. Has anyone else experienced dandruff while feeding raw? If not, where do you buy canned sardines in water?  I've only seen those packed in mustard, oil, etc. in the grocery stores. 

Thanks in advance.

My Oberon had that... dandruff a while after being fed what he should be fed. One of my slightly more esoteric cat books   says that's because the body releases toxins through the skin. In Oberon's case (who dislikes anything fishy) I brushed him with the furminator as often as possible (he really liked that). Then I made felted little balls out of the brushed-out fur .

It cleared up after a while.

You can also get Omegas from grass-fed beef and most organs (good source is sweet breads if you can get that).

Mine got greasy coats at first, and OMG the shedding...I really started tho rethink the whole raw feeding idea at that point.  I think there was some dandruff at that point too, but I really can't remember because of the oil slick. 

I'm assuming you transitioned them onto raw over time, so how long have they been on just raw?  Including this recent addition of Tiki Cat.

Maya's been eating completely raw since March, so about 3 months. The canned Tiki with sardines I've only started earlier this week, to see if it helps. I still see flakes (near the base of her tail) but I don't think she's greasy. Her fur has always been thinner yet coarse, not much undercoat like most DSH. Since on raw, I feel her coat is softer to the touch, but I never expected to see those white flakes. It's not much, but using the furminator (which I've had since she was 8 weeks) does help, but I still see dandruff!   Maya also has to be the type of kitty that doesn't like to be brushed at all, since she was younger. I have a slicker brush, Kong's ZoomGroom, and those are terrible in comparison, lol. 

Someone says it's shedding season, so it's normal this time of year. Is it? Yes, my kitties shed, but dandruff, really? Just want to make sure.

Is she a good groomer? When I asked my vet about dandruff on one of our cats, that's the question she asked me. I had to think about it for a minute, and realized - no, I don't see Sheldon grooming as much as the other cats. She suggested I brush him daily. I do. And no more dandruff. And yes, it is worse while they are shedding.

LDG,

Maya isn't a super groomer, though she does better than when she was much younger. Thank you for your advice, I will try to furminate her while I can, but she's a challenge and often tries to bite at the brush. Perhaps it is just shedding then, and hopefully the brushing will help minimize the fur/dandruff problem further.

Thank you all for your input, since I've bought the canned Tiki sardines, I'll continue to use it every once in a while. But just wondering where do folks get canned sardines in plain water? A specialty store? 

I buy mine at the supermarket. In the section with canned fish. I just read the labels, and found one packed in water with no salt.

Thank you all for your input, since I've bought the canned Tiki sardines, I'll continue to use it every once in a while. But just wondering where do folks get canned sardines in plain water? A specialty store? 

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I've gotten frozen sardines from an ethnic market that everyone walked away from ("now you want us to eat what???")... hidden in ground raw, Rascal and the Rogue like them just fine

EmandJee said:

 
Hello raw feeders,

I have two kitties (10 months & 11 months), one of which is eating a complete raw diet for about 3 months. I've noticed, however, in the past few weeks, Maya has been getting dandruff despite that. 

She's fed mostly a commercial brand I get from my local pet stores, which does consist of salmon oil in their ground meat. I've also tried adding fish oil to increase the Omega-3, but doing so only deterred her from consuming her meal. Since then, I've added Tiki Cat Tahitian Grill (Sardine cutlets) and she's eating them without a problem now.

I'm wondering if adding fish will make Maya a fish addict (she also loves tuna), even though this is a temporary measure. Should I cut back on her sardines to once a week? I've been adding about a teaspoonful only as a supplement to her morning meal only. I know folks on prey model raw diets feed their cats sardines packed in water once a week. Has anyone else experienced dandruff while feeding raw? If not, where do you buy canned sardines in water?

 I've only seen those packed in mustard, oil, etc. in the grocery stores. 

Thanks in advance.

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OK, this may be a little out of left field, but in traditional Chinese veterinary medicine/food therapy raw food and fish/fish oil are all very rich and moist foods. Depending on the cat's overall makeup, it may be a little too "damp." This can lead to greasiness. I wonder if decreasing the fish/sardines/fish oil would help? You could consider feeding some other protein such as beef or turkey in lieu of the fish products. Secondly, I wonder if adding a digestive enzyme might help Maya process the "damper" food better. A third consideration would be to see if lightly cooking the food improved things. I know that you want to feed raw food, but she might need a little help before she goes all the way to raw. I would be interested to hear how this turns out. 

Tabitha

furbabyvet said:

OK, this may be a little out of left field, but in traditional Chinese veterinary medicine/food therapy raw food and fish/fish oil are all very rich and moist foods. Depending on the cat's overall makeup, it may be a little too "damp." This can lead to greasiness. I wonder if decreasing the fish/sardines/fish oil would help? You could consider feeding some other protein such as beef or turkey in lieu of the fish products. Secondly, I wonder if adding a digestive enzyme might help Maya process the "damper" food better. A third consideration would be to see if lightly cooking the food improved things. I know that you want to feed raw food, but she might need a little help before she goes all the way to raw. I would be interested to hear how this turns out. 

Tabitha

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furbabyvet This is very interesting. A friend just started seeing an integrative vet trained in Chinese Medicine. This particular vet (trained in TCM in China) does not support feeding a raw diet at all (as opposed to our integrative vet trained in Chinese Medicine, trained here in the U.S.). I've never had the cooked food discussion with ours, but it makes sense to me that cooking would alter the characteristics of the meat (I mean, apart from the chemical changes and killing off the enzymes). I'm curious about the suggestion to use the enzymes in the live food - but not the cooked???? If you have the time, could you expand on the discussion a bit?

I use plant-based digestive enzymes in my raw-fed cats' diet, but only learned about their use in the process of learning about raw feeding... and I do it to help them heal from years ( ) of having fed them a horrible diet. (Most of mine were basically 10 when we transitioned to homemade).

I'm curious about the suggestion to use the enzymes in the live food - but not the cooked???? If you have the time, could you expand on the discussion a bit?
 

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@LDG  Oh, sorry if that was confusing. I would try digestive enzymes whether the food is cooked or raw. However, raw food is said to require more energy to digest than cooked food. Cooked food has already been broken down a little bit by cooking. That can be good if you have weak digestion, but could be why some cats do better with raw food- it may not be as likely to have free substances that could cross the blood-gut barrier. 

The way I was taught was that strong and relatively healthy animals are the best candidates for a raw diet. I know there are plenty of people who have a different experience, as in-- raw diet was the only thing to help with IBD, etc. Chinese medicine categorizes foods in many ways, not the least of which is temperature. Raw food is much cooler in temperature than cooked food in general. Boiled meat is cooler in temperature than baked meat. Grilled meat (high temperature cooking) is warmer than raw, boiled and baked. Then you have standard dry kibble. It's considered hot in temperature because it is highly processed and baked at high temperatures. Give a hot protein like chicken, processed into kibble, baked at high temps and give it to a cat. It's no wonder they end up with various heat overload conditions in their old age! 

furbabyvet said:

 
OK, this may be a little out of left field, but in traditional Chinese veterinary medicine/food therapy raw food and fish/fish oil are all very rich and moist foods. Depending on the cat's overall makeup, it may be a little too "damp." This can lead to greasiness. I wonder if decreasing the fish/sardines/fish oil would help? You could consider feeding some other protein such as beef or turkey in lieu of the fish products. Secondly, I wonder if adding a digestive enzyme might help Maya process the "damper" food better. A third consideration would be to see if lightly cooking the food improved things. I know that you want to feed raw food, but she might need a little help before she goes all the way to raw. I would be interested to hear how this turns out. 

Tabitha

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Hi Tabitha,

I guess I wasn't clear in my original post, so I'm going to try and clarify. I have two cats, Maya and Galaxy. Maya is the kitty that has been eating 100% commercial raw for 3 months. In all raw foods, there is a bit of either fish or salmon oil, for omega-3s. However, the past 3-4 weeks or so, I've noticed she's getting white flakes on her fur. She's not greasy at all. Her raw meat during these past months have consisted of either chicken, duck, or venison meat, and absolutely zero fish. I don't feed fish because there's just too many negative things about it, one of which includes becoming a fish addict. However, about a few days before my original post, I decided to try and add canned sardines due to its high omega-3 content to see if it helps with her dandruff. Since then, I've tried feeding her small amounts, maybe a spoonful per day,  not per meal. It certainly wasn't a lot. I always weigh out my portions, so she gets about 3.25-3.5 oz of raw meat per meal. In that time, I saw no change, so I decided to post here. Now granted, she doesn't have tons of dandruff, just some flakes I see near the base of her tail mostly. I've tried to brush her, but she usually evades it and hides under furniture or starts biting the brush. I'm not feeding her fish anymore, as it didn't seem to do much. I'm hoping it's just a seasonal thing, as I believe her raw diet is balanced and nutritionally complete. My sourcing is from a local company which produces raw food for cats specifically, which I purchase at my local independent pet store.

Regarding digestive enzymes...in my research on raw food, I believed enzymes were more abundant in raw. Cat's nutrition is based on uncooked meats as ideal because of all the vitamins, minerals, enzymes are plentiful which are best utilized by a carnivore's short digestive system. Heat depletes or destroys the valuable vitamins and enzymes do they not? I'm not sure how lightly cooking will improve things, considering there's some ground bone in her food and cooking bones will make it a hazard? In all the literature I've read, raw food for cats are highly digestible. Of course, I've zero knowledge of TCM, so I'm sorry, I don't want to contradict you, truly, I understand you're trying to help me. I'm just left confused here. It just contradicts so many things that I've read, of which I believed were of reliable sources...?

Also, out of curiosity, are you a holistic vet? Your handle just gives that impression, and I couldn't find any intro about yourself, so it's peaked my interest, too. I hope I can learn more about TCM.

Thanks so much for reading. 

@EmandJee  Hi, yes I'm a vet. I do have a FB page, Twitter, and website I regularly post on. I'm not allowed to post a link here but if you Google Tabitha Thompson DVM you should find the web site.

I understand what you're saying about feeding a raw diet. I'm not here to talk you out of it. Just trying to throw out a few ideas to try since you asked for advice.

It's hard for me to guess exactly what the problem might be just from a description. Dandruff can be from "dampness," or dryness. If you're not feeding fish, coat's not greasy, etc. Maybe it is more of a dry situation. Large flake dander indicates more of a "blood" deficiency (not meaning bleeding or anemia) while small flakes are often related to yin deficiency. You can also look up traditional Chinese medicine foods, Herbsmith web site has one, I believe. That could give you some ideas about foods to try. My experience is that it may take up to a couple of months to see the full effect of any food. 

Good luck.

Tabitha