piglet ckf/ckd - numbers posted & pepcid question

we're currently working without a regular vet. after a complete snow job by a 'holistic' vet, piglet's been having acupuncture at a local veterinary hospital. luckily, the veterinarian and his tech that have been performing her acupuncture have been incredibly kind and supportive. they are aware of my recent vet issues. the doctor asks after her diet and says piglet's one of his best acupuncture patients


i hope that's easily readable.  on 4/8, piglet weight 9.14lbs.  after her surgery she went up to 9.4lbs, maybe the first week of may.  as of today, piglet weighs 8.6lbs.  in five weeks, she's lost .8lbs, which is significant.

other potential notables: prior to the first blood draw, piglet was eating commercially prepared raw food.  between the 03/07 and 04/08/14, she was eating nature's variety canned and wellness canned with phos under 1.2, and had about 1/4c of wellness complete health indoor kibble nightly.  04/08/14 was her surgery and she continued on nature's variety and wellness canned only for appromximately three weeks.  after that (early may), i attempted to feed piglet home prepared raw - which she ate for about 10 days before no longer being interested.  i offered her canned wellness on the days she didn't eat raw.  i then began preparing home cooked meals for my cats which, again, piglet spent about two weeks picking at.  i'd supplement her with canned wellness on the days she didn't seem to be eating.  (note: all home prepared foods are being prepared following a recipe with full nutritional information available; they meet aafco standards except in phos, which is considerably lower).  for the last three weeks or so, piglet has been eating commercial canned food - we are currently feeding nutro natural choice soft loafs, which she seems to enjoy.  

the acupuncturist is not our regular vet; we don't have one as of now.  however he has been following piglet's weight loss and food issues and today agreed to draw blood for a CBC and chem panel.  he is concerned about her weight loss and extra finicky eatins and has suggested i give piglet 5mg pepcid daily, which i'm good with.  he was also shocked that her last vet flat out refused to let me do subq fluids (old vet said piglet needed to be in hospital for two days on iv fluids prior to surgery, but it wasn't 'bad enough' that i needed to do subq at home).  we hope to have the blood work back after the weekend. 

i am not expecting great things.  her last workup on the day of the surgery (04/8) was after 20 hours of iv fluids being given, and those values still suck pretty badly.  IRIS staging says creatinine over 2.9 is stage 3... and it was only that low because of the fluids.  i'm game to start piglet on prilosec though - is it okay to crush it and mix it in her food?

anyone have tricks for pepcid?  advice?  comments?  concerns?  i posted this at another ckf/ckd specific site and got talked down to (as usual... i don't know why i keep going back there for 'support').  

Are you giving Pepcid or Prilosec?  When I gave Pepcid, I had to crush it and syringe it with her food.  I crushed her Cerenia too.

I don't know anything about the kidney issues but I have given Pepcid to my IBD kitty in the past.  I don't know why you would be talked down to about it, I think that it is a commonly used and effective medicine.  You want to use the regular strenghth which is 10 mg and you don't want the complete.  Just the regular strenghth, regular Pepcid.  The last time that I bought it I even got a store brand to save a few bucks.

For the IBD I always gave it right before I went to bed to help with excess acid in the morning.

I never used Pepcid AC for my kidney kitties, but used it recently to help Tim deal with nausea and excess stomach acid. I gave him 1/4 tablet twice per day, then once per day, then as-needed and haven't used it in a while.

I mostly gave it with food; Tim inhales his first plate of food at both meals and I am very fortunate that I can tuck in pills and capsules. A few time, when giving it as-needed, I pilled him.

I gave Pepcid A/C to my kidney cat.  1/4 tablet.  And I used the generic also.  But my Vet said to be sure to use the A/C, not the regular .  BUT, it's supposedly VERY BITTER, so if Piglet chews things to death, then you might need to go to Plan B, which we eventually used as a Back-up, and that was to have Famotidine (same ingredient I think as in the Pepcid A/C) compounded into a fish flavored liquid.  But the compounded pharmacy told us that it's still bitter enough that the cat's can probably taste it, so I still mixed it with the stinkiest fish flavored food I could find, but just the tiniest amount of food, just to make sure he ate it, since he was eating so little anyway. 

With the pill form, I would use Whiska Lickin's soft treats, the salmon flavored ones, and squeeze them flat, then put a pill on it, then squeeze another one flat and press them together, hiding the pill inside.  I found this worked better than pill pockets, only because my Sven hated pill pockets.  I would give him one or two "unloaded" treats, then the "loaded" one, then another unloaded one.  Also, I tried to pinch off a little bit of the flat pieces of the treats before pinching them together so it wouldn't be too big, so he wouldn't notice and chew on it too much.  Occasionally he'd spit out the pill, and that's when I'd have to go to plan B above . 

For my current kidney cat, I use Vet's Best Hairball Relief Digestive Aid, because it has Slippery Elm Bark in it.  It works to an extent.  Have you thought about just giving him Slippery Elm Bark Syrup?  Most cats don't have any issue eating it (mixed in their food or even just slurping it up plain).  My cat is just extremely picky

for Piglet.  When I first so the April number, they looked great compared to the earlier numbers.  I didn't realize until I read further that it was because of 2 days on IV fluids .   Fingers crossed that they haven't gone up any  

OH!  BTW, my girl stopped eating raw almost as soon as she was diagnosed with kidney disease too.  Wonder why that is with them? 

The one with the A/C on it is what I call regular Pepcid.  The one that has Complete on it is the one that can't be given to kitties.

stephgas said:

i hope that's easily readable.  on 4/8, piglet weight 9.14lbs.  after her surgery she went up to 9.4lbs, maybe the first week of may.  as of today, piglet weighs 8.6lbs.  in five weeks, she's lost .8lbs, which is significant.

other potential notables: prior to the first blood draw, piglet was eating commercially prepared raw food.  between the 03/07 and 04/08/14, she was eating nature's variety canned and wellness canned with phos under 1.2, and had about 1/4c of wellness complete health indoor kibble nightly.  04/08/14 was her surgery and she continued on nature's variety and wellness canned only for appromximately three weeks.  after that (early may), i attempted to feed piglet home prepared raw - which she ate for about 10 days before no longer being interested.  i offered her canned wellness on the days she didn't eat raw.  i then began preparing home cooked meals for my cats which, again, piglet spent about two weeks picking at.  i'd supplement her with canned wellness on the days she didn't seem to be eating.  (note: all home prepared foods are being prepared following a recipe with full nutritional information available; they meet aafco standards except in phos, which is considerably lower).  for the last three weeks or so, piglet has been eating commercial canned food - we are currently feeding nutro natural choice soft loafs, which she seems to enjoy.  

the acupuncturist is not our regular vet; we don't have one as of now.  however he has been following piglet's weight loss and food issues and today agreed to draw blood for a CBC and chem panel.  he is concerned about her weight loss and extra finicky eatins and has suggested i give piglet 5mg pepcid daily, which i'm good with.  he was also shocked that her last vet flat out refused to let me do subq fluids (old vet said piglet needed to be in hospital for two days on iv fluids prior to surgery, but it wasn't 'bad enough' that i needed to do subq at home).  we hope to have the blood work back after the weekend. 

i am not expecting great things.  her last workup on the day of the surgery (04/8) was after 20 hours of iv fluids being given, and those values still suck pretty badly.  IRIS staging says creatinine over 2.9 is stage 3... and it was only that low because of the fluids.  i'm game to start piglet on prilosec though - is it okay to crush it and mix it in her food?

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i'm just giving my own experience with my snick and her sub-q fluids. our vet started my snick on sub-q's when snick's blood work showed the "beginnings of kidney issues". it might be something to consider, discussing starting your kitty on sub-q fluids.

peaches08 said:

 
Are you giving Pepcid or Prilosec?  When I gave Pepcid, I had to crush it and syringe it with her food.  I crushed her Cerenia too.

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was going to try pepcid.  can prilosec be given to cats?  prilosec comes in capsules so i could empty out the little bead thingies and mix it in her food.  piglet is as close to impossible to pill as i've ever experienced and she's very picky with food.  i've never ever ever had success pilling her.

@mrsgreenjeens  i know, the april numbers weren't *too* bad but yes, 20 hours of iv fluids before the blood draw.  since then piglet's had all four offending canine teeth removed and has become more active and 'normal'.  the blood taken yesterday will be after 2 weeks of quality canned and no extras except probiotics.  i just wish i could get her to eat the home cooked i've been making for my other two occasionally i find piglet cleaning their plates for them, but she won't eat it when i put it in front of her.

the other board always talks down to me, which is the main reason i stopped posting there.  it's frustrating and annoying.

I know some people have started giving Prilosec to IBD kitties.  I think it has a bitter taste as well.  Those who have started using it split the dose by emptying out the capsules and splitting the medicine into empty gel caps and then pilling the kitty.

The main thing I have seen about Prilosec is to be careful with kitties who have liver issues.

i haven't started it yet.  piglet is eating and i know she's not eating what i want her to, but she's eating.  and piglet still seems a bit off and has been hiding when she sleeps sometimes.  i'd hate to stress her more than i have to.  i'm going to wait until i get the results of the blood word before making any other changes now.

Hi, I am sorry your cat is so ill. Very cute cat and name.

What are people talking you down for? Idiots.

Anyway, no real tricks for the Pepcid. It should be given on an empty stomach about 30 minutes before meals or other meds.

Are you doing fluids at home? You should be.

You can get a pill gun but it can be kind of hard to use.

Put the piece of pill into a gel capsule and wet the gel capsule slightly to help it slide down.

The treatment should never cause more trouble than the disease, so....if it is becoming a huge struggle it is better not to do it.

stephgas said:

 
i posted this at another ckf/ckd specific site and got talked down to (as usual... i don't know why i keep going back there for 'support').  

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Hi stephgas !

I haven't been following your story,  just dropped by now.

Being treated like that is beyond horrible.....you said a ckf/ckd site....do you mean group versus site?  ...can you post - or PM me - and identify the particular group you're talking about? I have very good contacts with one CKD group where I know from personal experience you will be treated like Royalty....maybe it's better to PM me.

Are there any treats she likes?  Pill pockets?  Cream cheese?  Other soft cheese?  Deli meat?  You could try hiding the pill in that.

peaches08 said:

 
Are there any treats she likes?  Pill pockets?  Cream cheese?  Other soft cheese?  Deli meat?  You could try hiding the pill in that.

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nope, nope, and nope.  occasionally she'll lick at raw cookie dough when i'm baking.  or maybe ice cream.  apparently she has a sweet tooth.  piglet's gone off her treats too.

i'm switching off to merrick pates - bigger cans, less costly for me.  i hate that it's starting to come down to money.  but i'm a drug counselor.  there are people at mcdonald's who make more than me.  and i'm chronically ill and have a lot of my own medical bills to worry over.  

Is she's licking raw cookie dough, you might try butter.

stephgas said:

 
nope, nope, and nope.  occasionally she'll lick at raw cookie dough when i'm baking.  or maybe ice cream.  apparently she has a sweet tooth.  piglet's gone off her treats too.

i'm switching off to merrick pates - bigger cans, less costly for me.  i hate that it's starting to come down to money.  but i'm a drug counselor.  there are people at mcdonald's who make more than me.  and i'm chronically ill and have a lot of my own medical bills to worry over.  

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As cocheezie mentioned, butter might be a possibility.  I'd consider the cookie dough, honestly.  She's better off medicated and eating a touch of sweet than not medicated.  And I fully understand the finances thing.  I was living on student loans and trying to help my old CRF kitty.

Another thought, related to your other thread:  I think if you get her started on subQ fluids, she might eat more.  When you feel like pure garbage, you don't want to eat right?  Same for her.  Oh, and warming the fluids made the subQ experience wonderful for my old kitty. 

stephgas said:

 
i'm game to start piglet on prilosec though - is it okay to crush it and mix it in her food?

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There's a thorough coverage of Prilosec on the website I referenced before: http://www.felinecrf.org/nausea_vomiting_stomach_acid.htm#omeprazole

It works differently from  Pepcid AC and in a study was found to be 5x less effective...there are also some cautions around its prevention of nutrients like B-12 and calcium. It's worth a read through, though.

In another thread, someone is using Pepcid AC suspension via syringe - the cat hates the taste of it (which poses a risk for aspiration), but she feels she's getting it in.

Perhaps if you read through that entire section on nausea (if you haven't already) , something might stand out for you: http://www.felinecrf.org/nausea_vomiting_stomach_acid.htm