is it unusual

thundrnlitnin · Jun 12, 2014

For black cats to end up with green eyes or even blue? I ask as we have a kitten whose mommy has dark gold eyes, but whose daddy is like a calico type point that is actually half ragdoll (whose daddy was shorthair fullblood ragdoll that looked almost exactly like Tom of the tom n jerry cartoon)....(and whose mommy was a longhair white cali?)

nbrazil · Jun 12, 2014

Found this answer:

Yes, it is possible to get this, but it is extremely rare. Blue eyes result from the light being refracted in an eye which contains no pigment or colouring, so it is a bit like looking at the sky or a large body of water and seeing blue.

Normally cats do have pigment in their eyes which give them a green, yellow or gold colour. White cats and Siamese cats don't have pigment in their eyes and so have the blue eyes.

Very occasionally normal cats are seen with blue eyes and although there may be more than one genetic cause, so far only one blue-eye gene has been identified and bred. The cat breed name for these blue eyed cats is the Ojos Azules, which means blue eyes in Spanish. The first cat with the trait was a female called Cornflower who was found in 1984 in New Mexico. There is more info here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ojos_azules

The breed is still very rare because it is difficult to breed and does not breed true. The gene has a double lethal affect so two Ojos Azules cats can't be bred together. If an Ojos Azules is bred to a normal cat then half the kittens will be Ojos Azules and half normal, but all will be healthy. So far only a few cats have ben registered and they are only bred in TICA (The International Cat Association).

If you want to find a blue eyed black cat as a pet then you are out of luck, but if you have one you are very lucky.

Also found where it was said to be impossible. I think all things are possible (google chimera cat Venus) - but rare in the extreme, IMO.

thundrnlitnin · Jun 12, 2014

MiniTom, the shorthair grey ragdoll had green eyes-no gold in them. His son, TJ, the white "calico point", has beautiful sky-blue eyes. I do not recall off the top of my head what color eyes TJ's momma had.. But I am thinking it will be more likely little Cleopatra will have her Grampa's green eyes...even tho at five weeks her eyes are grey-blue...

StefanZ · Jun 12, 2014

I think I shall ask a mod to send this question to our Description forum, as there are the genetic specialists.

Please add some pics on the kitten, and if possible, on the parents.

I will also ask our genetic specialists look. @GemsGem @Willowy

Good luck!

nbrazil · Jun 12, 2014

ThundrnLitnin said:
MiniTom, the shorthair grey ragdoll had green eyes-no gold in them. His son, TJ, the white "calico point", has beautiful sky-blue eyes. I do not recall off the top of my head what color eyes TJ's momma had.. But I am thinking it will be more likely little Cleopatra will have her Grampa's green eyes...even tho at five weeks her eyes are grey-blue...

Good idea, never heard of a shorthair grey green-eyed Ragdoll.

thundrnlitnin · Jun 12, 2014

I was incorrect about my MiniTom's eyecolor. They were more green as a kitten, but became more goldish green as an adult. And he was parented by two longhair ragdolls, i sawboth his littermates and parents. I also researched ragdolls... So while he was a shorthair, it doesnot change the fact of his parentage.

GemsGem · Jun 12, 2014

Green eyes in black cats is pretty common but blue eyes in a black cat would be unusual.

Ragdolls have a pointed pattern like a Siamese and cats with a pointed pattern have blue eyes.
Pointed pattern = blue eyes

I think TJ would either be probably a seal point or flame point maybe ? Due to cats with a pointed pattern can't be a calico

thundrnlitnin · Jun 12, 2014

http://cfa.org/Breeds/BreedsKthruR/Ragdoll.aspx. while MiniTom was not a longhair, he was indeed of the mitted variety of coat pattern of ragdolls. I am not so stupid as to not investigate the claims of someone giving me a cat....especially regarding breed. Papers I could care less about, those are a formality...

Willowy · Jun 12, 2014

Do Ragdolls have an unusual gene governing fur length? In general, 2 longhairs CAN'T have a shorthaired kitten, because longhair is a recessive gene and 2 recessives can't make a dominant. So unless there's something different about Ragdolls that I'm not aware of, I'm suspicious of the breeder's claims :/.

Gemsgems, aren't there tortie points? I'm pretty sure there are. I doubt a male would be but I know I've seen tortie points. . .

I'm not very well-read on eye color inheritance, sorry

. Usually pointed cats have blue eyes, because pointed is a variation on albinism and so they don't have pigment in their eyes (and blue is what you get in the absence of any other pigment). I have seen solid-colored cats with blue eyes but it is quite rare.

thundrnlitnin · Jun 12, 2014

Well considering I knew the owner of both the male and female parents while a member of the VFW Auxiliary, and saw both of the parents with my own eyes, I tend to believe. Besides, u said "in general". I will admit that it is odd, but he had a twin sister that had long hair. Their dad n mom were both humungous...and both very very fluffy....MiniTom's brother was a longhair with an odd pointset, but adorable. I am in the midst of trying to find the pic of the two brothers....

Willowy · Jun 12, 2014

Genetic truth: 2 recessives cannot make a dominant. 2 dominants can make a recessive if they carry the gene. In humans, this means that 2 people with blue eyes cannot have a brown-eyed child but 2 brown-eyed people can have a blue-eyed child. In cats that means that 2 longhairs cannot have a shorthaired kitten but 2 shorthairs can have a longhaired kitten. After looking around a bit, it seems that blue eyes in cats is also recessive, so 2 blue-eyed cats cannot have a non-blue-eyed kitten either. And 2 pointed cats cannot have a non-pointed kitten.

I did say "in general" but only to account for the possibility of there being some oddity in Ragdolls that I don't know about

. But after Googling a bit, I don't think there is. Kittens in the same litter can have different fathers, who knows what Mama Cat was up to :lol3:. No matter really; if you love your kitty it doesn't matter what breed/mix he is

.

I'd love to see a picture of your kitties, especially the one you said is calico. Male calicos are rare and I don't think I've ever seen one, even a picture :clap:

.

nbrazil · Jun 12, 2014

Okay, seriously - for a male cat to be calico, it still must have two X chromosomes! This is the XXY pattern which is always sterile - so cannot be a daddy. But I see "like a calico." What does that mean? This is fascinating and would be helped by pictures!

StefanZ · Jun 12, 2014

NBrazil said:
Okay, seriously - for a male cat to be calico, it still must have two X chromosomes! This is the XXY pattern which is always sterile - so cannot be a daddy. But I see "like a calico." What does that mean? This is fascinating and would be helped by pictures!

Right, there is something odd here, both with this calico father, and shorthaired son of long hair parents... I wonder if it was the driver or the mailman involved?

Luck you TS dont bother about papers or formalities, so it is not so important for you if it is a real pure bred or not, luck you are happy with a nice lovely family member.

thundrnlitnin · Jun 12, 2014

I said "like a calico" as I really have no other way to describe....I know the point on it is not tortie....but if you all would be patient for the pics, it would be appreciated! I have had a lot going on today, am not good at multitasking! Especially when my phone is NOT cooperating! Lol

GemsGem · Jun 13, 2014

Yeah I didn't think it would be a tortie or calico that you meant, you just didn't know how to describe it which makes sense

Im still thinking maybe seal point or flame point as if you didn't know the names of these colours they would be hard to describe

@Willowy Cats with a pointed pattern can be tortie just not calico.

The others are right about how two longhairs cannot produce a shorthair kitten. It is genetically impossible :nod:

I can't wait to see some pictures of your kitty - I think maybe your cat is not shorthaired but is actually medium/semi longhaired. A medium/semi coat can come in lots of lengths and one of those can be so short that's gives the impression that the cat is actually shorthaired when it's not. There are a few give always like tail fur a little longer than body length fur. Buts it's very easy to think they are shorthaired.

Now I could be completely wrong here :nod: This is just what I'm guessing until we see some pics

Willowy · Jun 13, 2014

The OP also said the cat in question is gray with green/gold eyes. . .so he can't have come from 2 Ragdoll parents even if he is longhaired :dk:. 2 pointed, blue-eyed Ragdolls would always have pointed, blue-eyed kittens. So, yup, traveling salesman, I think

.

thundrnlitnin · Jun 13, 2014

Ok, first of all, let us return to the original question, please!!! Secondly, that question was regarding the eye color of a kitten, not whether or not my MiniTom was indeed a shorthair proceeding from two ragdoll cats!!!

Willowy · Jun 13, 2014

Well, it kind of does matter because it means the kitten is only 1/8 Ragdoll instead of 1/4. . .but really there's no way to know. Recessive genes can pop up from many many generations back so she certainly could have blue eyes or not. I guess you'll just have to wait until she's old enough to tell for sure

.

is it unusual

TCS Member

Thread starter

TCS Member

TCS Member

Thread starter

Advisor

TCS Member

TCS Member

Thread starter

Mentor

TCS Member

Thread starter

TCS Member

TCS Member

Thread starter

TCS Member

TCS Member

Advisor

TCS Member

Thread starter

Mentor

TCS Member

TCS Member

Thread starter

TCS Member