Foreign object in cat's airway

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bdentler

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I have a two y.o. male cat that I think might have a foreign object caught in either his airway or voicebox. Probably string, cord or furniture foam. I have taken him to two local vets ($300 plus) but they are not marketing airway clearance right now, only asthma, (larger profit margin). I need to find some way to look down his throat to see if anything is there. He will not allow this of course. He even offered to take off one or more of my fingers if I tried looking again. Would a small amount of valium relax him enough to allow this, I wonder? It might also help his evident anxiety.

Any help would be appreciated. Thanks
 

hissy

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Your vet should have put him under anesthesia and scoped him to find the foreign object. Why was this not done? Please do not attempt this on your own, without knowing what you are doing, you could cause irreversible harm.
 

sandie

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Honestly, If they didn't use anestesia to look into his throat, then I would request that be done. Also, if they think it may be asthma, and they don't find anything in the airway, they should do an x-ray to confirm either.
It is not a good idea to try and diagnose something like this at home.
 
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bdentler

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I have tried what you suggested. The vets started talking about Asthma even before the examination. Every time I brought up the cat's history of swallowing things it was brushed aside and they returned the conversation to Asthma. Common sense dictates, of course, that they should have examined the airway and esophogus first under anesthesia.There were x-rays taken but far back in the body showing the lungs. They did not take X-rays of the voicebox and base of tongue area. Since this began I have bought and read more cat books and checked online in the Merck Manual. Every authority agrees that the symptoms suggest a linear foreign object lodged at the base of the tongue. As for asthma only three of the twelve symptoms listed in the Merck Manual agree with that diagnosis. But I got the strong impression that these vets were "selling" asthma.

If I could only find a way to allow this cat to let me look at the base of his tongue I could remove it, hopefully.
 

woodsygirl

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Is there another vet close by? I'd call and explain the situation and see if they would see you. You pay good money and you should not be pushed around by a vet who might have made a misdiagnosis. You might also consider calling an animal hospital if your cat is suffering.

My cat Mabel is a "hoover". She considers anything on the floor a treat if she finds it before I do
 
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bdentler

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I don't want to sound venal here but everytime I see another veterinarian it costs another $150 to $300 dollars. I simply can't keep this up. I have other cats too. I am going to have to do this on my own or else allow the animal to die. These veterinarians here do not care about the animals. They are only interested in generating revenue. So, actually, spending more money will only make the situation worse. Doe's anyone know anything about valium in cats? I have some. Would this sedate the cat enough for me inspect its throat?
What dosage for a ten pound cat? Soon now, I am going to try this anyway.
 

woodsygirl

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Boy, do I know about vet bills! I took Mabel to the vet 3 weeks ago, and paid $500 to find out she had gas


I don't know what else to tell you, honestly, I think if she had something, like a string in her throat, she'd have puked it up by now. (I know my cat would have... )
 
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bdentler

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Thanks for your imput. Actually, I was thinking of giving him ipacac to make him vomit. My thinking here is that if it is in the esophagus and if it is a string it might turn around and I can pull it out. If it is in the airway it would have no effect of course. What is stopping me is that the Merch Manual says that if it is a sharp object rather that a string or cord, there is the possibility of it really jamming in there or puncturing the stomach wall or something. Soon it won't make any difference anyway, but I want to wait until the last second.
 

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DO NOT use valium for this cat and DO NOT induce vomiting of any sort! To do so could cause your cat to aspirate or further lodge the obstruction, cause perforation in the mouth, esophagus, etc., if there is one.

Get your cat back to the vet immediately and demand a thoracic view on x-rays, this can be done one of two ways...your kitty can be positioned to get both the esophagus and upper airway (thoracic regions) on one film (8x10)....and if the vet needs an additional x-ray, he can do a split-view, which means he can do a thoracic position of both sides of the thoracic cavity, using one 11x14 film.

If he refuses to accomdate your request, you owe it to your kitty to get him to another ER vet immediately. IF there is an obstruction lodged in his airway, or foreign object under the tongue/palate, etc, it should be visible upon x-rays or palpation on exam. Asthma can pretty much be visualized and diagnosed upon x-ray, history of the kitty, presenting signs and symptoms.

Please, do NOT ever attempt to find a foreign object/obstruction on your own, and NEVER induce vomiting when you suspect an obstruction! Should this be a string and you pull, you could perforate vital tissues and cause a host of problems (including inducing blood and infection), and you don't know where the other end of the string is wrapped up at.

Please use common sense and get your kitty back to your vet or a new ER vet altogether. The costs are worth it to ensure your kitty is not in danger, or may require intervention and treatment....................Traci
 

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I do understand how you feel... your cat is suffering and there is nothing you can do and you feel that nobody else will help you. Take your cat to the vet and demand that they do something, do not let them put you off, and don't worry about the cost. Your mind being at ease with this is worth the money and frustration. I'm sure that they will work something out with you, and even though financially things might be tight, you will have your cat with you when the bills are paid off. Don't take drastic measures that might only further harm your cat and stress you out. Call an animal hospital and sleep better tonight.
 

hissy

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I agree with Traci, please do not attempt to solve this problem on your own. As I said to you in PM go back to the vet and tell them the first visit was a waste of your money and they need to make this right again. Please don't try and remove anything foreign from your cat, don't drug or otherwise stress this cat out anymore than he already is. I am sorry this happened, and I do know about high vet bills, I battle them all the time, but taking matters into your own hands will spell disaster. I know you live in a place known for gambling, but don't gamble on your pet's life. It won't be a winning bet.
 
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bdentler

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You sound competent. Would plastic or material like plastic show up on these x-rays? The reason I ask is that this cat has swallowed large chunks of clear plastic wrap before ( ten inches square as a matter of fact) and it passed out through his anus. No kidding. I take your point though about string or cord wrapping itself around something in there. I promise, no inducement of vomiting.


I am too tired to think straight right now about going back to the last vet. I can foresee difficulties in coming back now and specifically asking for certain types of X-rays, especially in the technical terms you are using.

And there is still the money aspect. This will cost several hundred dollars at least and there are other cats to consider, not to mention the mortgage.

But, thanks very much for your help.
 
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bdentler

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Thanks Hissy:

You are in the right of it. This cat has been stressed enough already. So much so that it has affected the other two animals. Further, it has always been my policy to segregate the cat who has been to the vet last for three days. So Blackjack is now alone in the garage, thinking he is being punished no doubt. (When I was very young our family had dogs, when one of these dogs returned from the vet it brought home some disease that killed them all.) By the bye, I don't gamble at all, even though I live here in Las Vegas. You don't live in Las Vegas long if you gamble. And there is so much to do here besides gambling -- best kept secret in the world.

Thanks again.
 

hissy

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I have good friends that live in Vegas, and Henderson- so I know all about the good stuff to do there. Just trying to drive home a point that gambling in this area of your cat's life, isn't a good thing. I also would not separate the cat from you, is it possible you can just bring him in the bedroom, after all he has been through, he needs comfort and human contact, not necessarily a dark garage.
 

cat-tech

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Originally posted by bdentler
You sound competent. Would plastic or material like plastic show up on these x-rays?
It depends on the type, if it is lodged, an x-ray may show an abnormally sized esophagus or inflammation. Hard plastics may show up as an opacity, it just depends on the size of the object and the type of material. All metals will show on an x-ray, but certain strings, cords, etc will not, unless there is accompanied inflammation.

[QUOTE}I am too tired to think straight right now about going back to the last vet. I can foresee difficulties in coming back now and specifically asking for certain types of X-rays, especially in the technical terms you are using.[/quote]

I understand that. However, based only on your posts, I have to ask....what were kitty's symptoms that prompted you to get him to the vet? Was he breathing as if gasping for air, or choking? Was he pawing at his mouth or face? If you can answer yes to that, then an obstruction is a potential. However, if wheezing, labored breathing, or raspy breathing was present, the two vets could be correct in suspecting asthma.

As for the exam, we don't know how they examined your kitty. If you're not familiar with how exams go, sometimes an owner can miss the obvious. Vets and techs can examine a kitty so fast and palpate areas you don't realize or actually see them doing it. A quick esophageal exam can be done with a couple motions of the fingers and hand, and if no direct reaction was made by your kitty during the exam, this could be one reason they suspected asthma rather than an obstruction. I would think however, that the first x-ray should have included the esophagus on film, rather than just the thoracic region (chest areas).

[QUOTE}And there is still the money aspect. This will cost several hundred dollars at least and there are other cats to consider, not to mention the mortgage.{/QUOTE}

I would think another vet would charge less. You must understand that emergency vets charge more because they provide a specialized service, it is a costly operation, trust me. They aren't in it for the money, they are into it to save lives. I won't attempt to get into cost operations here, but please understand it is a business like any other, it is simply specialized with state-of-the-art equipment and other high-priced services. If we didn't have emergency services available for our pets, so many would suffer needlessly. When you look at in it terms of helping a defenseless pet needing help and veterinary intervention, the costs are easier to bear. Your kitty is depending on you to to right by him. Most vets will arrange for special payment arrangements if you can at least leave a sizeable downpayment/deposit and work out the rest on a payment schedule that is acceptable to both of you (for example, post dated checks).

Again, we don't know for certain what the true problem is, what the presenting symptoms were, so please, do not take risks here, get your kitty to another ER vet immediately. Even if there is no obstruction found, there were obviously some alarming symptoms that prompted you to get him seen initially. If asthma is the diagnosis, you will thank yourself for getting him seen immediately....asthma is not a condition one can play waiting games with, it is a serious condition that can worsen instantly, and during an acute crisis, demands immediate emergency veterinary attention. Best to always play it safe, you will have peace of mind for doing so, and your kitty deserves that.

Lastly, please don't keep him in the garage, keep him indoors close to you so that you can observe and monitor him for any other signs. Ideally, get him to another ER vet ASAP.....................Traci
 
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bdentler

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Well if nothing else I can see my communications skills are not up to snuff. First I imagine that you imagine "the garage" to be a dark, cold, grease covered, dirt-floored pit littered with rusty engines and such. Actually is is heated, lighted and clean as a whistle. Much of the time the cats stay there of their own accord. Normally they can come and go as they wish. There is fresh water and covered cat beds. I am keeping Black Jack there first to protect the other animals but also because he and Moe are sparring partners and I don't want Moe jumping on him right now.

Now why do I think these vets were too precipitous in their diagnosies? First they both studiosly ignored my description of this animals' tendency to gulp down things. Then of course, as you mentioned, there was no X-ray done on the esophagus area. There was also the fact that they started talking up Asthma ever before the exam and there was this attitude of "don't try to confuse me with fact, I've made up my mind." My conviction is even stronger now that I done more research on this. For instance, according to the printed authorities, bronchial asthma symptoms would include prolonged expiration (not present here), Cyanosis possibly (not present here),x-ray evidence of trapped air in alvioli (not present), open mouthed breathing (not present), coughing (not present), x-ray evidence of trapped air in stomach and intestines (no x-ray done), bronchi, trachia, and pulmonary vessels abnormally prominate on x-ray ( they did not seem to me to be, but of course I am not an x-ray tech. By the way when I asked to take the x-rays with me the last vet became very defensive and angry and refused to let me have them or to take the x-ray charge off the bill if he refused.).

Also neither doctor prescribed a bronchial dilator like Aminophylline or Terbutaline.
 

hissy

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It doesn't much matter why they did what they did, what matters is your cat. I would seek another vet quickly, even if you have to drive to Henderson or some other area to find someone who will do what needs to be done.
 
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bdentler

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I understand that women see things differently from men so let me assure you that my first concern is for the cat. Each time this cat goes to vet's office he will be exposed to unknown pathogins and he will suffer anxiety. This is wearing on the cat and a compromise to his immune system. And as you can see I have already been to two vets and they are both incompetent. Simply spending more money on a vet might allow my conscience some relief but it would not necessarily be best for the cat.

Let me add at this point he seems a tad better this morning. He lapped up a little tuna water and he urinated. He is not as anxious either. His respiration rate is slower but still too fast. he does not seem to be in any pain.
 

cat-tech

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First, let's leave the emotional differences between men and women out of this....this is a cat health forum and we are concerned with first and foremost, your cat.

Again, I ask you what the presenting signs and symptoms were that alerted you to take kitty to the vet. While you read up on the net to research asthma, there is more to an investigation and x-rays to properly diagnose the condition. Prior history, presenting signs/symptoms, a possible aspirate taken or ruling out other upper/lower respiratory infections, ruling out fungals, allergies, etc must be taken into consideration. Yes, diagnostics become extensive, yes, they can be expensive, especially during emergency hours. But, the client always has the option of declining more advanced diagnostics during this investigative stage.

We weren't there so we don't know exactly why the two vets suspected asthma, and I assume they were competent with the exam to rule out a potential obstruction. I'm sure they didn't totally dismiss the idea of an obstruction when you told them of kitty's tendencies, just because they didn't say as much doesn't mean they didn't rule it out. Vets run a million different things in their head every second to reach a diagnosis/conclusion, and most don't talk out loud with those thoughts. Emergency medicine is a fast-paced environment and the client is not always told what is going through the vet's mind as he is trying to conclude a diagnosis.

As for the x-rays, they are the property of the clinic, they need to remain in the patient's chart for future reference. Rarely do vets give an x-ray to a client, most often they only do so as a means to get a second opinion, or another consult with another vet. Had you requested referral to another clinic, they would have faxed records or hand-delivered the x-ray to the new vet for review (a tech or other staff member can be a courier).

As for not prescribing medications for asthma, we don't know if that diagnosis was concluded based on physical evidence. I suspect you and they had some miscommunication and I suspect you declined whatever they offered. If you can tell us differently, by all means, please do. What did they actually conclude, or what did they offer you as a means of additional diagnostics to conclude the diagnosis? Did they offer you followup care and support, schedule a recheck? Refer you to your primary vet during normal business hours so he could confirm?

If you want a reasonable plan of action, I strongly suggest calling whichever vet you saw, demanding a recheck on your kitty and getting evidence of an asthma (or whatever else) diagnosis. You paid for a service, you are entitled to get your questions met. If the client doesn't ask questions and settles for a half-baked presumption, then the client is partially to blame. You have to speak up for your interests and get your questions addressed and answered. Since today is Friday, I would presume you can see your primary vet and get a second opinion. The other two vets can certainly fax the records for his review. On the offchance you didn't have a primary vet and these two were your first, then the proper thing to do is demand an explaination and take it from there.

Saying they don't care about your cats is not appropriate. They obviously performed the necessary diagnostic approach with an exam, x-ray, etc. Not knowing exactly what they were telling you, it's impossible for anyone to advise you further. Whenever there is any type of breathing distress (as you mention in your last post), this is a red flag that something is amiss. You are completely entitled to request an x-ray of the trachia/larynx/esophagus and to get proof from them that an obstruction is not the cause.....................Traci
 

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Don't try to remove this yourself. Don't give the animal human medcine. If it is a string, it could be wraped around the base of his tounge and again around some of his intestines. So you can see what trying to pull it out would do...

Spend the money, it's replaceable.
 
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