I know enough to be dangerous so could use some imput with abandoned 3-4 week old feral kittens.

fuzzycat

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Hi all,

Sadly I think I know just enough to be dangerous so I am reaching out for feedback. I have never reared orphaned kittens before. I have taken in two semi-feral adults and had more success than I ever expected but am concerned that these little guys are more fragile.

I have a neighbor who maintains a colony of semi-feral to feral cats. He does not believe in spaying and neutering or vaccinating them. Other neighbors and I have teamed up and started to spay and neuter and vaccinate the ones we can catch. This has caused some friction and we have been asked to stop. We haven't of course. Last year we treated 8 cats. We hoped that would at least slow things down. But I don't think it has much.

Yesterday we found 4 kittens abandoned in the middle of the a neighbors back yard. They all have conjunctivitis. One was in pretty bad shape. He felt cool to the touch when we first found him and he was definitely dehydrated. He also was not moving his front legs (his back legs work).  We started to given them all formula and took the one to the vets (emergency visit over Memorial day). They treated him for dehydration and gave us antibiotic ointment for their eyes. They didn't have much to offer in terms of his front legs.

Today, two are bouncing back well. They are started to be very mobile and to explore. Another one is eating well, but then just sleeps and the little male (my husband has named him Kai) is not eating very well and sleeps all of the time.

Now I am worried. For starters, I have brought them into my home and I have other cats. My neighbor works and has cats and dogs and kids (who bond and who want to play with the little kittens) so my house was the practical choice. I have them separated from my other cats and am trying very hard to make sure I wash my hands etc. But, I am worried about spreading disease to my other cats.  In addition, I am not sure if there is anything else I should or could be doing for the kittens. Are there any other signs I should watch out for? I  Am giving them replacement formula alone in one container and replacement formula mixed with canned kitten food in an another. They can lap on their own, but they seem to prefer the milk still. The three healthier kittens have used a litter tray on their own. I have not seen little Kai go, but that does not mean he has not in his nest.

I have weighed everyone so I can keep track of whether or not they are gaining weight. I have started to try to measure how much food Kai is eating.  Today he has had little over a tablespoon of formula. He took a little on his own and the rest I gave him spread out over about an hour. I read he should get about 6 tablespoons a day but I don't know if I will be able to get that much into him today.  I have read mixed reports on how often to feed them. Some sources say every 3-4 hours other sources say 5 to 7 hours. Is this a play it by ear situation?

Best guess is that they were abandoned for 12 to 24 hours. If they were beginning to get a bit shocky will it simply take a few extra days to rebound? Should I be running Kai and the other less active kitten back into the vets?  I am worried we have given them pneumonia or that they have distemper or something else I am unaware of.  But then maybe the two or simply more depressed by the conjunctivitis and I need to give it more time.

In terms of social behavior, they were all pretty hissy yesterday and Kai would try to bite but that seems to be improving rapidly. I notice they tend to hiss more if I let the neighbors kids handle them. They are good kids, but they are kids. Is there anything else I could do besides simply feeding and bathing them. I suspect yesterday was the first time they had ever been handled.

Sorry about the long dump, but I figured the more information I give the better someone will be to help.

Thanks in advance!
 

red top rescue

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First of all, they are sick AND feral, so keep the neighbors kids away from them  Set up their own private infirmary with a NO VISITORS sign on the door -- a spare room, a bathroom if you must, but someplace isolated.  The kids won't wash their hands like you do and will spread what is probably a respiratory virus.  The stress will not help the kittens recover either.  Tell the kids that the kittens are in quarantine so that nobody else catches their illness, and when the kittens get all better, THEN they can help socialize them by playing with them.

As for feeding the little guy, feeding smaller amounts more often is preferable to feeding large amounts less frequently when kittens are weak or sick.  Every 4 hours is fine for the three who are doing better, but if little Kai was here, I would be feeding him tiny amounts every 2 hours just like a newborn until he perks up and eats more. 

When you said one couldn't move his front legs, it reminded me of the "limping kitten" or "limping calici" virus.  (if you search those terms in the search box just under the brown title bar above, you will find at least one thread pertaining to that.)  One form of the calici virus tends to cause high fever, body aches, and joint pain, especially in the feet and legs, both front and back.  It moves, so one day one foot is sore, and another day a different one is.  If they do in fact have that strain of calici, the entire course is abut 3 to 5 days and then they will be better, bouncing back as if nothing happened, but during it they can be pretty sick. Treatment is usually just antibiotics (to prevent secondary infection), keeping them hydrated (because this strain often produces a very high fever for a few days) and occasionally steroids to ease the pain and inflammation in the joints for the one who get it so badly they cannot move.  The fact that even little Kai is eating is encouraging.  If this is the limping calici virus, it can be tougher on some than on others, some get just a little limp (usually starts in the front feet) and others get it in all their joints and don't want to move for a few days. 

Anyhow, it sounds like you are doing the right thing and if it IS limping calici, they should all be through the worst and just a few days.  Fortunately it doesn't hang around long.  It does stay in their systems, however, and even when they seem healthy, they can pass it to other cats and kittens who have not had it.  The calici included in the vaccines given to cats does not protect against this strain but does protect against some of the more deadly forms of calici.

BTW distemper usually manifests in vomiting and diarrhea, not conjunctivitis, so this isn't that.  In our experience, most adult cats are immune to this form of calici -- I donn't know why, but probably just part of their immune system being fully developed, which a kitten's system is not.  Of course you should do your best to not only wash between touching the kittens and your other cats but also wear a smock or big shirt when you work with the kittens and leave it in their room.  Also, spray your pant legs and the  bottoms of your shoes with a disinfectant spray that gets viruses (most do) as you leave the room.   And after they are recovered, I would still advise keeping them away from other KITTENS if possible.  Keep us posted as to their progress.  It sounds like you are doing a great job.
 
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happybird

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It sounds like you are doing well with the babies! Thank you for taking them in and being a good steward for the feral colony.
Catwoman, Redtop Rescue, and Stefan Z. know a lot about raising orphaned babies and the health issues they face. I'm sure one of them will be along soon with some advice and reassurance. But from all the threads they have answered and I've read, you seem to be on top of things! I just wanted to give you some encouragement. You are doing a wonderful, selfless thing with both the babies and the TNR on the colony. The world needs more good people like you. Thank you for what you are doing! :clap:

Edit: Lol! I forgot to hit post after typing and got up for a few minutes. When I came back, RedtopRescue had already been to the rescue!
 
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fuzzycat

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Wow, Thank you both so much. I will do all of this. Little Kai was trying to walk this evening. He seems to have a little strength in his right front. This may be exactly what they have. I will keep working it and will talk to the girls mom. They were actually the ones who found them.  I cannot take all the credit. This has been a group effort on the part of the neighbors.

Oh and I made the mistake of buying a touchscreen computer. If I leave it on all sorts of strange things happen. However, mine are not as polite as to actually send something for me.
 

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@Red Top Rescue  thanks for pointing this out, I tried to reply but was unable for some reason....(?)

We have both been through this strange/new strain of calici with kittens, it's quite scary, especially if you don't have any idea what could be wrong, but I have also read your post and it does sound like the very same.

Just be sure they are well hydrated and they will recover quite fast and perfectly.

Let us know ")
 
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fuzzycat

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Hi all here is a kitten update,

Two of the kitten are doing very well. They are still getting ointment for their eyes but they are very active and playful and gaining weight. Little Kai is now walking - yeah. He is also eating and using the little pan. A huge improvement there. However, he is still acting depressed. He is not nearly as active as his two siblings and today his conjunctivitis seems to have flared back up in one eye. The fourth kitten has developed a nasty upper respiratory virus. I took her and Kai to the vets again yesterday and they put her on antibiotics. They said she was not at the pneumonia stage yet but she was very congested. I am having to force her to eat. I have put in a steamed up bathroom to try and ease her congestion. It helped my sinuses a lot (I never realized how effective it could be) but it hasn't eased her symptoms enough to get her to eat on her own.  I have a call into the vet today  to see if I should put Kai on antibiotics as well.

So, while we will never know for sure it looks like the assessment that this is a Calici virus is spot on. Especially since the upper respiratory virus in the 4th kitten is so bad.

I forgot to ask the vet, but is it safe to give kittens this age Lysine? Would it help with this kind of virus? Also, if these kittens have it, should we assume that it is in the rest of the colony? Our local humane society is having a spay and neuter 'sale' in June so we were thinking to trying to round up a few more from the colony and take them in.

I wish there was some way to get the other neighbor to take responsibility for all these cats but they claim it is against their beliefs and what we are doing is mutilation. But, we are being overrun. We absolutely cannot catch the mama cat of these kittens. I am almost ready to start trapping the ones we can't catch. But then what? Neuter and release? Arrgh!

The ironic thing is we use to live in a neighborhood that had a reasonable population of stray cats. It really gets to my husband. When we bought this   house  we thought because we buying into an older more established neighborhood we were getting away from those problems and it is worse here than at our old neighborhood.

Thank you so much for the support. It truly helps.
 
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fuzzycat

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Oh, one last question -

All of the cats who have been spayed and neutered were vaccinated at the same time. But, those vaccinations are now two or three years out of date for some them. I am not sure exactly how many cats were are talking about ( I live across the street and don't see as many of them) but I am guessing over 10. The cost of re-catching them and updating the vaccinations is going to be huge. What about learning to vaccinate them ourselves? Over the years I have bolised several cats who were in kidney failure and given another cat insulin injections 2x's a day for a year (he is in remission now). Are vaccinations trickier?

Any ideas of where I could go to get trained and what to watch out for?
 

red top rescue

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L-lysine is just an amino acid and it's safe to give it, although it's mostly prescribed for the herpes virus.  Of course your kittes could have that as well, it also attacks the eyes and the respiratory system and the L-lysine interferes with herpes reproduction.  It doesn't kill it, just stops it from reproducing.  YES by all means put ALL of them on some antibiotic, amoxicillin and clavamox are usually well tolerated,  The antibiotic prevents secondary infection, and it is important to do that because the virus itself may suppress the immune system.  The steamy bathroom is perfect, I always do that for kittens with URI.  I keep them in a small bathroom and leave a warm mist vaporizer running constantly.  It helps immensely. Yes, you may have to force feed them for awhile if their noses are stopped up and they can't breathe well enough to smell food.  I usually keep the kitten formula KMR in powder form in the freezer and use it mixed with baby food strained meat for any sick cat or kitten.  (For some reason the liquid form of KMR often causes diarrhea so we don't use it.)  You can also do the chicken soup for real, boil a whole chicken in a crockpot and use the broth, which i high protein, to mix in with the KMR.  (The KMR has vitamins etc, so is better than the chicken broth alone).

Vaccinations are given under the skin just like insulin injections.  You could easily do this on any cat you could handle because if you are quick, they don't even feel them.  Also, if you search online you can find the nasal/ocular vaccine which is a 3-way vaccine which you mix up and then put a couple of drops in their eyes and in their nose.  I would think this would be harder than giving an injection to a feral cat, but I've used it on small kittens for their first vaccine because I hate giving shots to tiny kittens, PLUS one adult vaccine can do 4 or 5 kittens, making it very affordable.  Tractor Supply used to carry it but now they carry an injectable.  If you are vaccinating large numbers, you are better off ordering larger numbers of vaccines from someplace like Omaha Vaccine (www.omahavaccine.com) who often have the best prices.  You can also get wormer at most feed stores, or from your vet if he knows you are working with ferals.  There may also be another group near you that works with ferals and you can combine forces.

As for the neighbor's beliefs, I would then guess they are of the Islamic faith.  Muslims have a high regard for animals and cruelty to animals is against their religion.  While we may not be in agreement as to what is cruel (we think their ritual slaughter is cruel, yet it was based on a desire to spare the animal both pain and fear), some of them do hold that cutting an animal, i.e. sterilization, is cruelty.  Their religion does not even allow cutting the mane or tail of a horse!  I admire so many of their other beliefs and rules about animals that I can't fight this one.  Did you know that the Islamic religion does not allow hunting for sport or fighting animals for sport?  Rodeos and bullfighting are out of the question, and they are even against factory farming!  So if you can do a quiet and unobstrusive trap, neuter and release program (you should wait until the hair grows back and incisions are not obvious before releasing!), you may be able to get along with these neighbors, because they really do have the animals' best interests at heart.  They would never hurt the cats, which is better than many other stories we hear on here!
 
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catwoman707

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I would surely bet they have herpevirus.

(you can mention to your neighbor how they have this the rest of their lives and because there are so many out there who are unvaccinated/unfixed)  


I would never knock another's beliefs, but there are some things necessary in life to help minimize the cat population and infectious diseases, it is not mutilation.

The calici is a passing virus, not the same as the uri calici. It's interesting.

I would bet they have herpevirus, infact I can guarantee they do.

I would get the other kitten on antibiotics as well asap, when they're so young, pneumonia sets in fast and will kill them in no time.

You can easily do your own vaccinating, simply pinch skin and slightly raise it and it forms sort of a triangle with their skin, poke it with your finger so you feel the angle to put the needle in, and slip it just under their skin.

The others who have been vaccinated are fine. No worries about revaccinating them.

I don't think I would deal with the lysine just yet though, as it is an excellent, helpful supplement for the virus, but more warding it off rather than treating it once the symptoms are there like these kittens.

They will not eat as long as they can't smell it.

Antibiotics will show their effect after the 5th dose, you will start to see improvements. Meanwhile, they make Little Noses, it's saline nasal spray for children and harmless. It is pretty helpful to temporarily clear the stuffiness.
 
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fuzzycat

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I have been told they hunt and camp, but, maybe we have that wrong. Maybe they just camp. It would fit with the statement that they see it as mutilation. This bares some investigation. If they are Muslim maybe we could reach a compromise with them. Even if they helped with vaccinating the cats. It would be a start.

I will look into the vaccinations. It sounds like we could easily do it. I would much rather give my own cat a shot than a pill.

I have tried the Little Noses saline spray. I am not sure I doing it right, she is so congested it is hard to tell. I feel a little better knowing that it may not be until the 5th dose of antibiotic until I see improvement. She doesn't feel as warm today as she did yesterday. That is a positive.  I was thinking that the conjunctivitis was one virus and the upper respiratory stuff is another. Am I correct on that, maybe?

Also, it seems that these kittens are becoming very bonded to humans. It this normal for kittens in this situation? They have gone from biting and panicking when handled on Sunday to climbing up your pant leg today. We also get big kitten purrs when you given them scrintches. (Head rubs).
 
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fuzzycat

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One more question regarding URI in kittens....can they reinfect each other? Kai continues to improve. He is growing and putting on weight,  but now he is getting the sniffles, and his conjunctivitis is pretty bad again despite the ointment. The little tortoiseshell is still very congested but today at noon she was stretching and opening up her mouth for the syringe. That alone is a big improvement. It has been a battle to get food into since Monday afternoon and I was getting kind of worried. Actually the two are even playing a little.

My neighbor took the healthier two over to her house but now they are sniffling and their conjunctivitis is flaring back up.  I have been working to Clorox all bowel etc before putting them in the dishwasher. I have been washing my hands. I have been changing their bedding and washing everything on the sanitize cycle. I have been using Lysol. Could this be a flare up from the stress of being moved? That wouldn't explain Kai's new symptoms.

My hat goes off to all who do rehabilitation work. This is hard!
 

red top rescue

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They CAN hunt but only for food, not for sport.  As for kittens, it sounds like they may have a double whammy, started with limping calici and then got herpes, which they may have had inside already.  Lysine does help that even after they have it.  I know, I take it for my herpes whenever I feel I am getting it or when I wake up with a fat lip from it (it's in my system since I was bitten in the face by a dog when I was 5).  I do think the stress of moving the other two kittens may have given them a setback.  Moving is one of the "high stress" items on the ist of cat stressors, as is staying overnight at the vet.
 
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fuzzycat

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Who knew.

My other thought was could this be a second or third infection. They started out with conjunctivitis. I started the two I have on lysine last night. I think it is back to the vets today. Am wondering if maybe we need a different antibiotic.

Thank you for the support. I am truly impressed by how much people on this website know. And if you do rescue work on a regular basis I am doubly impressed.

Holly
 

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To add to this, they were likely born to a mom with the uri virus too, so it's sort of like imbedded in them good. This usually takes more time on antibiotics to completely rid the symptoms, but as their systems strengthen they will get it more in check for future.

It's not related to herpes at all, but called this due to the similarities, and how it is there for life, but once they are adults you won't usually see any signs of it, a very occasional watery eye or sneezing bout for a minute, and lysine is a great helper for this too. Wards off the flare-ups.

The kittens will seem fine once the med is gone, but usually will come right back, not full blown but can too, so I would often have to treat with clavamox twice in a row, adding a bit of probiotics to prevent diarrhea as it will remove all bacteria, all the bad but the good as well.

They really don't reinfect per se, not with the same virus strain they have, otherwise you could be going round and round for good! It's always a good idea though to be cleaning their dishes, etc to get the germs gone, internally and externally. It seems like the more you keep the virus from their surroundings, they will clear up better. 
 

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Thanks for the kind words.  @catwoman707 and I have both been involved with rescue for years.  In my case, I did my first volunteer work with a shelter when I was 21 and I'm now 70.  It isn't a choice, in my case, it's a calling.  I try to get out of it but it keeps pulling me back.  We all need breaks.  Our heart are hamburger.  Then someone leaves some orphan at our door and we're off and running again.....  TCS is a tremendous wealth of information -- I'm always learning new things here!
 

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Thanks for the kind words.  @catwoman707 and I have both been involved with rescue for years.  In my case, I did my first volunteer work with a shelter when I was 21 and I'm now 70.  It isn't a choice, in my case, it's a calling.  I try to get out of it but it keeps pulling me back.  We all need breaks.  Our heart are hamburger.  Then someone leaves some orphan at our door and we're off and running again.....  TCS is a tremendous wealth of information -- I'm always learning new things here!
Sounds like you know me already @Red Top Rescue  ! It is my calling as well, not that I enjoy having the heartbreak and chaotic life it that comes with it, and sometimes feel like I won't get through another loss if it were to happen,  but I don't have a choice as you said, it's automatic, programmed into my brain, and is extremely rewarding for me in the end.
 
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fuzzycat

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Hi all,

Sorry about the delay... I took a summer job scoring standardized tests and it was time consuming. Just a general update - the kittens have been received their first shots and were tested for the normal stuff - they were negative thankfully. The one who could not walk is now leaping and jumping and generally being a boy. He does have a little scarring on the inner eyelid of one eye,  so it looks like his eye is not completely open. They still occasionally sneeze but otherwise seem healthy. Yeah. The information I received from the members on this site helped a lot.

I made a connection with a rescue organization in town who will let us 'foster' the kittens and they will put them up for adoption at Pets Mart. I will pay for the spay/neutering but I will get their price.  I am hoping we will be able to find them good homes.

After a big storm almost  two weeks ago my neighbor found another mama cat with a litter on her front porch. The kittens had just opened their eyes. She would not let us near the kittens. She moved then shortly thereafter. Plan to see if I can find them this weekend. They are probably on the property of the other neighbor who likes the feral cats.

I have started to (just now) realized just how bad the feral cat problem is in our neighborhood (as in it is a serious problem). I am feeling overwhelmed and burned out. My neighbor has shouldered the bulk of the financial responsibility of these kittens so far and I learned last week they are no more in the position to do so than we are. It is stressful work. My hats goes off to all of those who do this on a regular basis.

However, I have learned there may be hope. In the paper Sunday there was an article discussing some sort of public-private partnership forming committed to a 3 year intense TNR program in town. Their goal is 15,000 cats in the first year. They want to significantly reduce euthanasia of cats in the city.  I don't know how I will be able to connect to this but plan to investigate. The article gave very little information. I am wondering if this is something that has been done in other cities.
 
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