Diabetic cat getting fat

cocheezie · May 26, 2014

I've been so focussed on Cocheezie that I've been putting off my other cat's issues with food (see avatar). He's turning 14, has been diabetic for almost 3 years, and getting fat which isn't easy for a diabetic cat to do. He went off wet food altogether a few months ago and I'm making an effort to change his mindset and re-introduce it. He likes little bits of Wild Calling beef (but I don't) and Merrick's Thanksgiving Dinner. His His dry food is Purina DM. He will eat cooked human food but only as a polite gesture at mealtimes. He takes over my lap at the dinner table and checks out our plates. Before he went off wet food, he was eating FF pates and a bit of Friskies pate. Like Cocheesie, he will only eat pate. I've tried $$$ worth of pates in recent months on Cocheezie trying to find ones she will devour and Rover has been offered these, but they usually end up being given to our feral. He would not eat the DM wet. I ended up giving half a case to the local shelter.

Mixing dry into with the wet gradually hasn't worked.

He does get dry treats a couple of times a day in a window sill. This is to encourage him to jump up which strengthens his hind legs.

The two-fold problem is the dry food. (1) It's kitty crack. (2) If there is no dry food in his dish, and instead of eating the wet (if it's been in his dish more than 10 minutes), he will eat inedible things off the floor - hair on the bathroom floor is his go-to choice, but he'll eat anything and will usually throw up back up. I've watched him scour the floor for anything he thinks might be edible. Recently, I found tiny white round objects (not pills - more like bits of styrofoam) in his vomit. Possible pica cat?

He was checked at the vet in the early spring and no problems found. He goes back to the vet in early July for shots and fructosamine testing. I'm compiling a list of questions to ask about his eating habits and will be asking for bloodwork to get an idea of where he stands.

I can't devote as much time as I should at the moment to getting his diet just right (Cocheezie's well being is a full-time job), but I need to start somewhere. HIs Purina DM bag of food is just about empty and instead of going to the vet and getting some more, I'm thinking about changing his dry. I want something very low-carb that is not crack. I gave him some Taste of the Wild dry that I have for my feral and he gobbled it up even faster than the DM.

Until I have the chance to change his mindset and get him off dry food altogether, I'm thinking of trying Wellness Core dry. Is this a good idea?

Edit: EVO dry? (mentioned on a few diabetic sites)

oneandahalfcats · May 27, 2014

cocheezie said:
I've been so focussed on Cocheezie that I've been putting off my other cat's issues with food (see avatar). He's turning 14, has been diabetic for almost 3 years, and getting fat which isn't easy for a diabetic cat to do. He went off wet food altogether a few months ago and I'm making an effort to change his mindset and re-introduce it. He likes little bits of Wild Calling beef (but I don't) and Merrick's Thanksgiving Dinner. His His dry food is Purina DM. He will eat cooked human food but only as a polite gesture at mealtimes. He takes over my lap at the dinner table and checks out our plates. Before he went off wet food, he was eating FF pates and a bit of Friskies pate. Like Cocheesie, he will only eat pate. I've tried $$$ worth of pates in recent months on Cocheezie trying to find ones she will devour and Rover has been offered these, but they usually end up being given to our feral. He would not eat the DM wet. I ended up giving half a case to the local shelter.

Mixing dry into with the wet gradually hasn't worked.

He does get dry treats a couple of times a day in a window sill. This is to encourage him to jump up which strengthens his hind legs.

The two-fold problem is the dry food. (1) It's kitty crack. (2) If there is no dry food in his dish, and instead of eating the wet (if it's been in his dish more than 10 minutes), he will eat inedible things off the floor - hair on the bathroom floor is his go-to choice, but he'll eat anything and will usually throw up back up. I've watched him scour the floor for anything he thinks might be edible. Recently, I found tiny white round objects (not pills - more like bits of styrofoam) in his vomit. Possible pica cat?

He was checked at the vet in the early spring and no problems found. He goes back to the vet in early July for shots and fructosamine testing. I'm compiling a list of questions to ask about his eating habits and will be asking for bloodwork to get an idea of where he stands.

I can't devote as much time as I should at the moment to getting his diet just right (Cocheezie's well being is a full-time job), but I need to start somewhere. HIs Purina DM bag of food is just about empty and instead of going to the vet and getting some more, I'm thinking about changing his dry. I want something very low-carb that is not crack. I gave him some Taste of the Wild dry that I have for my feral and he gobbled it up even faster than the DM.

Until I have the chance to change his mindset and get him off dry food altogether, I'm thinking of trying Wellness Core dry. Is this a good idea?

Edit: EVO dry? (mentioned on a few diabetic sites)

Hi there. I see you haven't had a response yet, so I will have a go ..

As your kitty has diabetes, I would really try and get him back on wet canned food. You could use dry food as a topper to try and entice him to eat more wet? Wellness CORE would certainly be an improvement over the Purina DM to use in the transition. There is also Nature's Variety Instinct Grain-free, which is minimal for carb content and doesn't contain potato like the Wellness CORE does. This comes is chicken, rabbit, lamb and duck. There are also limited ingredient varieties, and freeze-dried raw and raw boost varieties. http://www.instinctpetfood.com/cats. At the same time, have a look at the NV wet canned varieties, which will also be minimal for carbs : http://www.instinctpetfood.com/cats, and do not contain things like carageenan or a lot of synthetic ingredients.

Hope this helps some ...

red top rescue · May 27, 2014

I've found none of mine like Wellness Core grain free, but when it was the only dry food left down, the fat cat eventually ate it, but in small quantities. She then became amenable to eating wet food although she too was a dry food addict and would always sneak into a "forbidden" room to get at the other cats' dry food. I am not a nutrition expert and someone should be along woon to point you in another direction.

The purina DM cuts fat too low so there is no satiety. Ideal ratio of protein to fat in a dry food is 3:2. Cats need fat for skin and coat as well as for feeling satisfied. These low fat diets just make them eat more, trying to satisfy their hunger. No wonder he's getting fat if he eats this.

Purina DM is:

Poultry meal, soy protein isolate, corn gluten meal, soybean flour, beef tallow preserved with mixed-tocopherols (source of Vitamin E), corn starch, calcium carbonate, phosphoric acid, brewers dried yeast, fish oil, salt, animal digest, tetra sodium pyrophosphate, DL-Methionine, cellulose, choline chloride, taurine, zinc sulfate, ferrous sulfate, vitamin supplements (E, A, B-12, D-3), L-Alanine, riboflavin supplement, niacin, calcium pantothenate, manganese sulfate, biotin, thiamine mononitrate, folic acid, copper sulfate, pyridoxine hydrochloride, citric acid, menadione sodium bisulfite complex (source of Vitamin K activity), calcium iodate, sodium selenite.

Protein,%53.30%
Fat,%16.50%
Calcium,%1.46%
Sodium,%0.64%
Chloride,%0.53%
Taurine,%0.19%
Total Omega 3,%0.36%
Carbohydrate,%13.79%
Fiber,%1.17%
Phosphorus,%1.40%
Potassium,%0.60%
Magnesium,%0.12%
Total Omega 6,%2.02%

Purina DM Vet Diet

cocheezie · May 27, 2014

Thank you, it does help. I was looking at Wellness Core yesterday in the store. Was standing in the aisle debating between it and the NV, but mostly watching the store cat and the three available-for-adoption cats pretend-stalking each other, and ended up buying nothing. Going out again today.

autumnrose74 · May 27, 2014

Red Top Rescue said:
Purina DM is:

Poultry meal, soy protein isolate, corn gluten meal, soybean flour, beef tallow preserved with mixed-tocopherols (source of Vitamin E), corn starch, calcium carbonate, phosphoric acid, brewers dried yeast, fish oil, salt, animal digest, tetra sodium pyrophosphate, DL-Methionine, cellulose, choline chloride, taurine, zinc sulfate, ferrous sulfate, vitamin supplements (E, A, B-12, D-3), L-Alanine, riboflavin supplement, niacin, calcium pantothenate, manganese sulfate, biotin, thiamine mononitrate, folic acid, copper sulfate, pyridoxine hydrochloride, citric acid, menadione sodium bisulfite complex (source of Vitamin K activity), calcium iodate, sodium selenite.

Protein,%53.30%
Fat,%16.50%
Calcium,%1.46%
Sodium,%0.64%
Chloride,%0.53%
Taurine,%0.19%
Total Omega 3,%0.36%
Carbohydrate,%13.79%
Fiber,%1.17%
Phosphorus,%1.40%
Potassium,%0.60%
Magnesium,%0.12%
Total Omega 6,%2.02%

Purina DM Vet Diet

Wow... there should be a named meat in the top 5 ingredients. I wish I still had the e-book The Truth About Abs (lost it when my hard drive crapped out last year)but, IIRC, the author, certified nutritionist Mike Geary, called soy protein isolate an "industrial waste product. "

I wouldn't feed this to my cat.

cocheezie · May 27, 2014

Red Top Rescue said:
I've found none of mine like Wellness Core grain free, but when it was the only dry food left down, the fat cat eventually ate it, but in small quantities. She then became amenable to eating wet food although she too was a dry food addict and would always sneak into a "forbidden" room to get at the other cats' dry food. I am not a nutrition expert and someone should be along woon to point you in another direction.

The purina DM cuts fat too low so there is no satiety. Ideal ratio of protein to fat in a dry food is 3:2. Cats need fat for skin and coat as well as for feeling satisfied. These low fat diets just make them eat more, trying to satisfy their hunger. No wonder he's getting fat if he eats this.

Purina DM is:

Poultry meal, soy protein isolate, corn gluten meal, soybean flour, beef tallow preserved with mixed-tocopherols (source of Vitamin E), corn starch, calcium carbonate, phosphoric acid, brewers dried yeast, fish oil, salt, animal digest, tetra sodium pyrophosphate, DL-Methionine, cellulose, choline chloride, taurine, zinc sulfate, ferrous sulfate, vitamin supplements (E, A, B-12, D-3), L-Alanine, riboflavin supplement, niacin, calcium pantothenate, manganese sulfate, biotin, thiamine mononitrate, folic acid, copper sulfate, pyridoxine hydrochloride, citric acid, menadione sodium bisulfite complex (source of Vitamin K activity), calcium iodate, sodium selenite.

Protein,%53.30%
Fat,%16.50%
Calcium,%1.46%
Sodium,%0.64%
Chloride,%0.53%
Taurine,%0.19%
Total Omega 3,%0.36%
Carbohydrate,%13.79%
Fiber,%1.17%
Phosphorus,%1.40%
Potassium,%0.60%
Magnesium,%0.12%
Total Omega 6,%2.02%

Purina DM Vet Diet

Did not know about the protein/fat ratio. I find the nutrition calculations daunting, and think that those who do understand deserve honorary degrees in cat food - B.CatNutrition. Thank you. Going shopping with even more knowledge. And if he doesn't like what I buy, then it will sit in its bag by the front door for my lovely feral, and I'll try something else.

oneandahalfcats · May 27, 2014

Poultry meal IS a source of meat.

“Poultry meal is the dry rendered product from a combination of clean flesh and skin with or without accompanying bone, derived from the parts of whole carcasses of poultry or a combination thereof, exclusive of feathers,

heads, feet and entrails.” Poultry meal, chicken meal, turkey meal, etc., actually contains more meat per pound than a 'named meat' source in dry food due to the fact that the moisture has been removed. That said, it is the other ingredients in the Purina DM which makes this food not great.

presouz · Jun 4, 2014

Purina DM is making him fat, too many calories per the junk.. EVO is the best dry if you have to feed dry to a sugar kitty.. I am still so sad vets do not know what to feed sugar kitties.. they just listen to the sales reps who are trained to sell it all to vets. Evo is only 8 grams dry matter it will be much better for your kitty then Purina DM. I use Fancy Feast classics low carbs but avoid the fish ones they are so high in phosphorus and what I have learned having a diabetic cat on insulin for over 11 yrs is they may get kidney issues with too much phosphorus. Mine did, shes on sub q fluids twice a day now along with insulin and BG testing, poor thing too many needle pokes for her 17 yr old body.. shes an amazing kitty and my little inspiration!

bonepicker · Jun 5, 2014

I also have worlds fussiest cat she likes natural balance wet and dry and it gets good reviews on cats.about.com rated number 1 and less expensive than most high grade. I order from chewy.com. She likes canned ultra, liver & chicken and cattatouille stew (no grain choice). For dry she likes ultra or pea and chicken. I give her 80 percent canned and 20 dry. I just sprinkle a little dry on top of wet and do not leave free feeding down. I started mixing in FF because that is what I weaned her off of.

cocheezie · Jun 5, 2014

Thank you. I'm trying him on NV Instinct dry at the moment and coercing him into eating more wet; and I'm checking his weight and monitoring his glucose levels. EVO (wet and dry) is hard to get here. In one store, there were only a few cans of venison. The stores say there is no call for it so they stopped carrying it. If NV doesn't work, I'll look into ordering EVO online.

peaches08 · Jun 5, 2014

While EVO is low carb, it's worth mentioning that it is high in phosphorus if that's something you have to watch for.

How's the coercing into more wet going?

cocheezie · Jun 5, 2014

The phosphorus watch is for my other cat, although feeding anything high in phosphorus is probably not a good idea for a diabetic cat either.

The coercing is going well. Thank you for asking. Before he gets his 2x daily injection, I take the dry away and put down a bowl of wet. As with most diabetic cats, he inherently connects the insulin injection to eating. I do not put the dry back down until the wet is gone. Also, if we are going outside, I put wet out on the front porch first. He will eat some as he thinks it is his right to have it, rather than my feral's right. I make sure that if the feral has left something after his feeding, that leftovers are not eaten by my cat, limiting the transfer of whatever might be brewing in my feral. (He also wants my sick cat's food but I've made it hard for him to get at because most of the wet on the plate is k/d and the little bit extra has miralax and a b12 tincture in it.) I've also starting use huge bowls so that the wet stays in the dish and doesn't end up on the floor - he's a picker-upper, not a licker. The idea that eating wet is enjoyable is coming back.

cocheezie · Jun 30, 2014

We are coming to the bottom of NV Instinct chicken. (We also managed to get him to eat a lot more wet.) When he was on Purina DM, he could get 2/3 of the way up the stairs before he would start to pull himself up the remaining stairs. I noticed yesterday that he only manages a few steps now then pulls himself the rest of the way up. There have also been 2 bowel movements on the stairs. All the litter boxes are on the 2nd floor and obviously he didn't make it up the stairs in time. We've worked hard to regain some of what was lost to peripheral neuropathy. (We took him in as soon as he started drinking more and the vet put him on glyburide instead of going straight to insulin - this was a mistake.) He still makes the jump to the window though, and he made a mad escape dash up the street last week. Still, I'm wondering if there is an ingredient in the Purina DM that helps support the back end of diabetic cats and it was a mistake to take him off of it. I'm going to try a month trial of the DM and see if he improves.

bonepicker · Jun 30, 2014

Get him on grain free canned and you will see sucha difference

bonepicker · Jun 30, 2014

Have you tried natural balance ultra canned?

cocheezie · Jun 30, 2014

The canned is grain free - however, I have to keep kibble of some sort out all the time or he eats inedible objects off the floor.

(I've bought cans of absolutely everything trying to find something my other cat will eat. Natural Balance did not appeal to either of them. Thanks though.)

red top rescue · Jun 30, 2014

I found that the fat cat I had who had also been a dry food addict was placated with Wellness Core, i.e. she didn't like it so she would only nibble the occasional piece. You might try that.

goholistic · Jun 30, 2014

I am not well-versed in diabetic cats, but did you say he liked cooked meat in your first post? If so, have you considered a supplemented home-cooked diet?

peaches08 · Jul 1, 2014

GoHolistic said:
I am not well-versed in diabetic cats, but did you say he liked cooked meat in your first post? If so, have you considered a supplemented home-cooked diet?

This might be worth a try! And if you use eggshell powder as a calcium source, it binds some of the phosphorus (good for your renal kitty).

cocheezie · Jul 1, 2014

Thank you for the ideas. "Home-cooked" to the cat means sitting on my lap at the dinner table and eating a small amount just to be polite. He's at the table for the company more than anything else. If I put a similar sized portion of home-cooked in a dish in his feeding area, he won't touch it. Today is his birthday - two mouthfuls of salmon, straight up, no sauce.

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