Is it unhealthy??

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oneandahalfcats

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Schesir wet food, like Applaws, is a supplementary feed, which means it lacks the vitamins and minerals to make it complete. Even the ones who have some vitamins added are labeled supplementary. This means it should not be more than 15% of the cat's diet. I fed Schesir for a while and all my cats liked it. I stopped feeding it though because:

1. why feed supplementary feed and risk vitamin deficiencies

2. it is outrageously expensive for what is has to offer (only Almo Nature is more expensive)

3. it has rice or fruits, depending on the formula (and I don't want to feed rice or fruits to my cats)

I don't know about Schesir dry or about the other brands @Stewball mentioned.
That's a good point about it being supplementary. The varieties do contain some basic vitamins and taurine, but what struck me is it is also rather low in fat. I didn't see any with fruit or rice? As Stewball is only feeding this as a treat, I would say it is a good fit, and certainly better than feeding whiskas temptations, or other commercial treat.
 

irinasak

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That's a good point about it being supplementary. The varieties do contain some basic vitamins and taurine, but what struck me is it is also rather low in fat. I didn't see any with fruit or rice? As Stewball is only feeding this as a treat, I would say it is a good fit, and certainly better than feeding whiskas temptations, or other commercial treat.
Oh, Schesir would be a great food if it would be complete. I searched and searched for a food like Applaws, Schesir or Almo Nature (filet, with little ingredients, the chicken looks like chicken) but COMPLETE, and I found Thrive, but if any of those would be complete, I would feed them with no issues, even with the rice. My picky eater loves them, but being so skinny I can't risk feeding her food without all the necessary vitamins. And one of the side effects of a low fat diet is constipation, which was a big issue at my house. But for cats that could lose some weight or for cats that are food driven (they don't skip meals, eat whatever), I think these foods (Schesir, Applaws, Almo Nature) are great foods compared to most commercial foods out there... being fed as a treat.

Here are some links. What is interesting is that they seem to  take great pride in their fruit line:

http://schesir.com/en/products/cat/with-real-pieces-of-fruit/with-tuna-and-papaya

http://schesir.com/en/products/cat/value-tin-140g/in-jelly/chicken-fillets-with-rise
 

oneandahalfcats

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What is up with the fascination around fruit in some commercial food these days? Pineapple, Grapefruit, Oranges? There are anti-oxidant properties to these foods, but as being beneficial to a cat, I don't think so, and furthermore, some would not be safe if you were to feed as is. It's crazy.

Weruva and Tiki Cat are similar to Schesir for quality ingredients, but are complete in terms of vitamins/minerals, but still quite low in fat.
 
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jodiethierry64

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This has nothing to do with the question of dry food but please bare with me. I cannot post where I read this as it was an article from some magazine.
I read in South America where there was a feral colony and the locals were feeding the strays bread. Yes bread and only bread. The cats were thriving. Upon studying them they discovered that their DNA had changed to adapt to a diet of no meat!!!!!
If that was possible there then who's to say our domesticated felines have not changed. That an animal that had a low thirst drive now has developed one based on yrs of humans feeding a strictly dry food diet.
I don't know. I'm not an expert and I do feed 90% wet, ,10% dry.
I'm just trying to add some thought to this.
 

stewball

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That's a good point about it being supplementary. The varieties do contain some basic vitamins and taurine, but what struck me is it is also rather low in fat. I didn't see any with fruit or rice? As Stewball is only feeding this as a treat, I would say it is a good fit, and certainly better than feeding whiskas temptations, or other commercial treat.
They share half a tin between them every night[VIDEO][/VIDEO].
Hi @Stewball
: I am somewhat familiar with both Shesir and Now food
Shesir is a very high protein, low fat and no carb food making it a good
for a wet meat protein, but not something you would want to serve exclusively as the fat content would be too low. Depending on the variety you are fee
ding, the majority of the products do contain tuna however, so my one recommendation would be to not feed the tuna type every day, but mix it up with some of the chicken-based formula

The NOW brand cat food is an okay grain-free dry, but is fairly high in carbs like potatoes, potato-flour, peas, which are at the top of the list. There is also a fair amount of fruit filler a little later on. The higher up ingredients are, the more you can expect of this in the food. The senior formula features deboned turkey as a first ingredient which is good, bu
t the duck/salmon a little later in the list (after the potatoes), makes me question the amount of this in the food.

A better alternative in this line is the GO brand food which is also made by the same company as NOW (Petcurean). GO Brand features 7 meat proteins as the first ingredients (plus two later in the list) versus the 3 (total) meat proteins that are in the NOW. There are still a few carbs but these are later in the list. There are also canned varieties of GO Duck, Turkey and Chicken pates in the links below, if you are interested in trying some other wet canned.p
GO Brand Turkey and Duck Grain-free Dry : http://www.petcurean.com/for-cats/go/fit-and-free-grain-free-chicken-turkey-duck
Petcurean GO Brand Wet and Dry Varieties : http://www.petcurean.com/for-cats/go/

For a lower carb, higher protein food, you might want to take a look at Nature's Variety Instinct Duck and Turkey : http://www.instinctpetfood.com/product/instinct-grain-free-kibble-cat-food-duck-turkey-meal

The Merrick line of food looks to be comparable to the NOW food. Some decent meat proteins. Carbs such as potato are high in the list but there is less fruit filler.
 

roguethecat

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I've known people who have owned animals a long time.  Unfortunately, that did nothing for their knowledge on how to care for the animals. 
so true. And nothing to remedy that - I tried to lend out one of my cat nutrition books and people (owned by many more cats than me for decades who had never heard of lysine chews) laughed about it... made me stop talking about cat food entirely
 
 
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jodiethierry64

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so true. And nothing to remedy that - I tried to lend out one of my cat nutrition books and people (owned by many more cats than me for decades who had never heard of lysine chews) laughed about it... made me stop talking about cat food entirely:(  
I've tried to educate my father. He feeds his cat 98% dry (friskies) and 2% wet. He has a boy and I talked to him about blocking and grains. He listens and says he'll watch for problems but he won't change his diet.
I know my father wouldn't even notice a problem until his cat was extremely bad! I'm for prevention!!
 

autumnrose74

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Older generations are going to see things differently. For every 5, 10, 20 things they can name that were "better" in their day, you can come up with 5,10,20 things that have changed for the better since their day. They didn't know about the mental/physical drawbacks of declawing, and at the same time that they were having dry "convenience" foods being promoted for their pets, they were also switching from home-cooked-from-scratch meals to TV dinners full of preservatives. Now, we know that dry foods for cats is not healthy, and we also know that pre-packaged food for humans is not as healthy as cooking meals made from whole ingredients as close to their natural form as possible. The proof is there, and some people will "get it" and make the necessary changes, and others won't.

I would just present the info and let them do with it what they may. I'm not the one who'll have to pay their vet bills when their cat starts blocking due to being fed an all-dry diet or developing diabetes due to eating excess carbs, and I focus on doing whatever I can to mitigate my own vet expenses, because those are the only ones I need to worry about.
 
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oneandahalfcats

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Older generations are going to see things differently. For every 5, 10, 20 things they can name that were "better" in their day, you can come up with 5,10,20 things that have changed for the better since their day. They didn't know about the mental/physical drawbacks of declawing, and at the same time that they were having dry "convenience" foods being promoted for their pets, they were also switching from home-cooked-from-scratch meals to TV dinners full of preservatives. Now, we know that dry foods for cats is not healthy, and we also know that pre-packaged food for humans is not as healthy as cooking meals made from whole ingredients as close to their natural form as possible. The proof is there, and some people will "get it" and make the necessary changes, and others won't.

I would just present the info and let them do with it what they may. I'm not the one who'll have to pay their vet bills when their cat starts blocking due to being fed an all-dry diet or developing diabetes due to eating excess carbs, and I focus on doing whatever I can to mitigate my own vet expenses, because those are the only ones I need to worry about.
So I guess your cat eats raw food right? And you are a vegan or vegetarian who only eats healthy, natural foods all the time? I mean I would hope that both of these things are true, as if they are not, then what you are saying here would be rather hypocritical, wouldn't it, or is it that only dry food for cats is bad in your estimation?
 

peaches08

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so true. And nothing to remedy that - I tried to lend out one of my cat nutrition books and people (owned by many more cats than me for decades who had never heard of lysine chews) laughed about it... made me stop talking about cat food entirely
 
Yes, and some people I swear just don't get it.  I had a chick ask me about raw,so  I wrote the links to www.catinfo.org as well as our raw feeding forum here, and guess what she told me the next time I saw her? She was so proud to tell me that she had been collecting grass clippings to add to the cat's diet.  She's downhill from an avid gardener, by the way (chemicals?).  I smiled and told her that she was better off feeding canned until she better understood cat nutrition.  Geez...
 

pinkdagger

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I find this is the case with older generations too, and even younger generations who just come from different places with different views. My parents are well-meaning and want the pets to be happy, but they don't really see the difference between living and thriving. My dad bought me a bunch of tuna cat food from a pet store that was liquidating its stock and closing the location near our home, and of course I was grateful (even though the cats aren't fans of the food :(). My mom used to live on a farm in rural China and she said she fed their outdoor cats table scraps, so it usually included rice and sauce and fish bones with any residual meat stuck on, and her cats were all fine.

In 2005, I went to visit extended family in rural China and saw that they fed their dogs the same kind of scraps - leftover meat with bones, vegetables, rice, and sauce. It's a different time and a different place, so they assume it's still applicable because their animals are all "fine". If they don't take the time and have the will to research it themselves, all the education and scare tactics in the world won't convince them if it's in one ear and out the other.

Since I told my mom about our older cat's health problems, she's half-heartedly learned with me what's better for our cats (because it effects me directly - if it didn't, I doubt she would care since their home is now pet-free), and has actually come to understand why I feed wet and raw.
I've tried to educate my father. He feeds his cat 98% dry (friskies) and 2% wet. He has a boy and I talked to him about blocking and grains. He listens and says he'll watch for problems but he won't change his diet.
I know my father wouldn't even notice a problem until his cat was extremely bad! I'm for prevention!!
Unfortunately, even people won't think there's anything wrong with their own diet until something goes terribly wrong. Coronary clogs have reared their ugly heads twice in my family, and it wasn't until my maternal grandma had to have a quadruple coronary artery bypass earlier this year that my dad decided that with his high blood pressure and cholesterol, it may be worth getting his heart checked if it means avoiding an eight-hour open-heart surgery. Had that not happened, he could still be living blissfully eating hunks of red meat and salty, fatty chips, drinking pop all day long. Some people are thicker and more stubborn to change if they're living within a set comfort zone.
 
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ldg

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This has nothing to do with the question of dry food but please bare with me. I cannot post where I read this as it was an article from some magazine.
I read in South America where there was a feral colony and the locals were feeding the strays bread. Yes bread and only bread. The cats were thriving. Upon studying them they discovered that their DNA had changed to adapt to a diet of no meat!!!!!
If that was possible there then who's to say our domesticated felines have not changed. That an animal that had a low thirst drive now has developed one based on yrs of humans feeding a strictly dry food diet.
I don't know. I'm not an expert and I do feed 90% wet, ,10% dry.
I'm just trying to add some thought to this.
That surely would have been published. I can't find anything anywhere. How many generations were they fed bread? Because that kind of change doesn't happen inside of one lifetime in multiple cats. I believe it's possible a colony of cats was being fed just bread. I believe it's possible they were thriving. I believe they were hunting, and supplementing their diet. Bread does not contain taurine, and cats cannot synthesize it. Without taurine, they would have died due to heart failure.
 

peaches08

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I find this is the case with older generations too, and even younger generations who just come from different places with different views. My parents are well-meaning and want the pets to be happy, but they don't really see the difference between living and thriving. My dad bought me a bunch of tuna cat food from a pet store that was liquidating its stock and closing the location near our home, and of course I was grateful (even though the cats aren't fans of the food :(). My mom used to live on a farm in rural China and she said she fed their outdoor cats table scraps, so it usually included rice and sauce and fish bones with any residual meat stuck on, and her cats were all fine.

In 2005, I went to visit extended family in rural China and saw that they fed their dogs the same kind of scraps - leftover meat with bones, vegetables, rice, and sauce. It's a different time and a different place, so they assume it's still applicable because their animals are all "fine". If they don't take the time and have the will to research it themselves, all the education and scare tactics in the world won't convince them if it's in one ear and out the other.

Since I told my mom about our older cat's health problems, she's half-heartedly learned with me what's better for our cats (because it effects me directly - if it didn't, I doubt she would care since their home is now pet-free), and has actually come to understand why I feed wet and raw.

Unfortunately, even people won't think there's anything wrong with their own diet until something goes terribly wrong. Coronary clogs have reared their ugly heads twice in my family, and it wasn't until my maternal grandma had to have a quadruple coronary artery bypass earlier this year that my dad decided that with his high blood pressure and cholesterol, it may be worth getting his heart checked if it means avoiding an eight-hour open-heart surgery. Had that not happened, he could still be living blissfully eating hunks of red meat and salty, fatty chips, drinking pop all day long. Some people are thicker and more stubborn to change if they're living within a set comfort zone.
Exactly.  We're all fine until heart failure is diagnosed, diabetes, cancers, etc.

Also, when the "old timers" have managed to get by all this time without trouble, the wrong message gets sent.  One of my old dressage trainers was finally diagnosed and died of cancer at either 91 or 91 years of age.  This was years ago.  Anyway, breakfast was half coffee and half vodka.  Lunch was a hot dog.  Dinner was a 6 pack of beer and maybe another hot dog or hamburger.  She smoked 3 packs of Marlboro reds a day.  That wild woman was still riding horses until hospitalized.  However, just because she lived in spite of her terrible diet, that doesn't mean she thrived because of it.  Yes, she could have still had the same health outcomes if she ate better and didn't smoke.  The point is to decrease risk. 
 

oneandahalfcats

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This has nothing to do with the question of dry food but please bare with me. I cannot post where I read this as it was an article from some magazine.
I read in South America where there was a feral colony and the locals were feeding the strays bread. Yes bread and only bread. The cats were thriving. Upon studying them they discovered that their DNA had changed to adapt to a diet of no meat!!!!!
If that was possible there then who's to say our domesticated felines have not changed. That an animal that had a low thirst drive now has developed one based on yrs of humans feeding a strictly dry food diet.
I don't know. I'm not an expert and I do feed 90% wet, ,10% dry.
I'm just trying to add some thought to this.
Interesting reference. This reminds me of the long-standing habit of feeding bread to geese and ducks along the waterways here in Canada each year, and I would imagine the same thing happens in the states. People will come with bags of stale bread, buns, and think its great fun to toss pieces of bread. Bread is not good for any birds due to the gluten content which can mess them up inside, but, the birds seem to gobble it up just the same. I would expect they get other forms of foods as part of their natural diet. At least I would hope so.
 

pinkdagger

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In my hometown, I lived right in front of a small stream that ran across the road and under the highway. There were some businesses there, including a coffee shop I used to work for, and people would always buy unglazed donuts and bagels and go feed the ducks. They would FLOCK to the drive through window and back door for staff to feed them stales, and were so friendly (eating out of people's hands, even). They would hang out on a patch of grass back there, and then walk across the street to the bakery where they would get more bread. They would walk up to my back door and quack for food in the mornings too. I went out and tried to feed them grapes broken in half and quarters and leafy greens that I had leftover from feeding my own birds -- zero interest. They were waiting for bread, always. I sincerely hope they were getting more nutrition from the streams and wherever else they went to forage.

Some animals become "domesticated" to a point where they feel they don't need to explore elsewhere for food, since they know no matter where they go, people will be willing to feed them. I think domesticated animals have adapted to a degree, but they still have their base needs. Maybe an omnivorous animal could adapt better to a stricter and more drastic diet change, but I imagine the "obligate" in obligate carnivore would still be applicable.
 

Willowy

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This has nothing to do with the question of dry food but please bare with me. I cannot post where I read this as it was an article from some magazine.
I read in South America where there was a feral colony and the locals were feeding the strays bread. Yes bread and only bread. The cats were thriving. Upon studying them they discovered that their DNA had changed to adapt to a diet of no meat!!!!!
If that was possible there then who's to say our domesticated felines have not changed. That an animal that had a low thirst drive now has developed one based on yrs of humans feeding a strictly dry food diet.
I don't know. I'm not an expert and I do feed 90% wet, ,10% dry.
I'm just trying to add some thought to this.
Check your source. . .I do remember that one and I'm about 99.9% sure it was an April Fool's joke. . .one of those "studies" published on April 1st that scientific types are so fond of :D.

That said, yes, outside cats can do fine if fed an incomplete diet by humans, because they also hunt. Bring them inside where they can't catch and eat birds and rodents, and suddenly rice/bread/whatever isn't going to be good enough and they won't be doing fine for long.
 
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goholistic

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My parents are the same way. They have a female cat that they fed an all-dry diet for a long time...left out all day. I have tried to tell them over and over and over again that she needs some wet food. Her poops were like little deer pellets all the time...literally. They always said, "She's fine. It's what she likes." One day the cat pooped outside the box in another room (very unlike her) and there was fresh blood in it and on her anus. My mom was upset and alarmed and called me. LOL. Now's she's trying to give the cat wet food (Fancy Feast) every night. This is what I meant by my post # 41 . It's not until there's an "event"... 


Disclaimer: I know this thread isn't about feeding an all-dry diet. I am just providing a personal example related to the generations comments above.
 
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jodiethierry64

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That surely would have been published. I can't find anything anywhere. How many generations were they fed bread? Because that kind of change doesn't happen inside of one lifetime in multiple cats. I believe it's possible a colony of cats was being fed just bread. I believe it's possible they were thriving. I believe they were hunting, and supplementing their diet. Bread does not contain taurine, and cats cannot synthesize it. Without taurine, they would have died due to heart failure.

I can't remember what magazine it was. There are onky 3 I read, Cat fancy, ASPCA snd one that my vet mails to me a couple times a yr that they do.
I remember reading before I joined this site but I can't remember exactly when.
I do know about taurine and the need. Your right about them getting their meat source from hunting. It's amazing they sure didn't bring that up in the study! They just mentioned their DNA changing.
Oh well there's a reason I don't trust ALL science!!!!!!!
 

jodiethierry64

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Check your source. . .I do remember that one and I'm about 99.9% sure it was an April Fool's joke. . .one of those "studies" published on April 1st that scientific types are so fond of :D.

That said, yes, outside cats can do fine if fed an incomplete diet by humans, because they also hunt. Bring them inside where they can't catch and eat birds and rodents, and suddenly rice/bread/whatever isn't going to be good enough and they won't be doing fine for long.


I doubt this was an April fool's joke as they are only 3 magazines I read, Cat fancy, ASPCA and one my vet does and sends me a couple times a yr.
Yes now that you and LDG mention it, they had to be hunting! I'm just amazed these scientists didn't figure thar out! They did say it changed their DNA!!
 
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