Feeding requirement questions

Hi all, i've been browsing the site for some time and finally had enough head scratching to post..

I've kept my eye on all of Dr. Pierson's pages on cat health, especially after our Kiwi had a UTI episode..  He was pushed onto an all wet Urinary S/O which we took him off of due to his refusal to eat and just switched him to an all wet form of his regular Royal Canin adult instinctive..

We were trying to figure out for some time why he looked like he lost weight coming off of kibble every day with a can of wet every other evening..  And low and behold, didn't realize how bad the kibble was for him, carb wise..

So we started looking around and i have found two different equations on her pages.. and am not sure what i should follow...

As it is, i have a hard time getting him to eat three (3oz) cans a day and when i did the math on what i found on the main page, i got that he should be eating about 2 (3oz) cans of food a day.. his cans having 68calories each...  This is what i found on the main page:

"

I have never seen a cat develop hepatic lipidosis when consuming at least 15 calories per pound per day.  This number is figured on lean body weight, not fat weight. 

If your cat weighs 18 pounds but really should weigh 12 pounds, please make sure that he is consuming  ~180 calories per day.  (12 pounds lean body mass X 15 calories/pound/day = ~180 calories/day)

In reality, the cat in the above example would probably be completely safe at only 150 calories per day.

If you have a small female cat that should only weigh 9 pounds, please make sure that she is consuming at least 135 calories per day."

 So i did the math with that and found one thing.. and then while browsing today.. i found the feline obesity page with different numbers..

"Required calories per day = [13.6 X optimal lean body weight in pounds] + 70 Most female cats should weigh a nice, lean 10 -11 pounds.   Most male cats should fall into the 11 -13 pound range.

Using an optimal body weight of 12 pounds as an example, we come up with 233 calories/day as a starting point.

[13.6 X 12 pounds] + 70 = 233"

Now, kiwi is not overweight and is about 9.6lbs and is a two year old male. i would say medium activity to sometimes high depending on his mood.. and occasionally he just is a lump in the sun.. so a normal cat..   If i do the math for this second set of info.. i get that he should be eating three (3oz) cans of his food ..

I'm confused as to which i should go by.. i have trouble as is getting him to eat a full three cans a day currently.. and for a while after switching him off dry kibble he was very inactive and acted almost like he wasn't getting enough..  so i can push for three but i am confused as to what he SHOULD be eating.. I would like to get him to 10lbs but only if that means it's muscle and not making him fat.. but i'm rather confused as to which equation i should be using to figure out his dietary requirements... If i go by Royal Canin's suggestion he'd be force fed almost 4 cans a day.. lol

Thanks for the help!

I can't help regarding how many calories but if you think he needs to gain a little weight and he isn't eating enough you could try switching to a canned food with a bit more calories.. just a thought. 

Tenebrion said:

 
Hi all, i've been browsing the site for some time and finally had enough head scratching to post..

I've kept my eye on all of Dr. Pierson's pages on cat health, especially after our Kiwi had a UTI episode..  He was pushed onto an all wet Urinary S/O which we took him off of due to his refusal to eat and just switched him to an all wet form of his regular Royal Canin adult instinctive..

We were trying to figure out for some time why he looked like he lost weight coming off of kibble every day with a can of wet every other evening..  And low and behold, didn't realize how bad the kibble was for him, carb wise..

So we started looking around and i have found two different equations on her pages.. and am not sure what i should follow...

As it is, i have a hard time getting him to eat three (3oz) cans a day and when i did the math on what i found on the main page, i got that he should be eating about 2 (3oz) cans of food a day.. his cans having 68calories each...  This is what i found on the main page:

"

I have never seen a cat develop hepatic lipidosis when consuming at least 15 calories per pound per day.  This number is figured on lean body weight, not fat weight. 

If your cat weighs 18 pounds but really should weigh 12 pounds, please make sure that he is consuming  ~180 calories per day.  (12 pounds lean body mass X 15 calories/pound/day = ~180 calories/day)

In reality, the cat in the above example would probably be completely safe at only 150 calories per day.

If you have a small female cat that should only weigh 9 pounds, please make sure that she is consuming at least 135 calories per day."

 So i did the math with that and found one thing.. and then while browsing today.. i found the feline obesity page with different numbers..

"Required calories per day = [13.6 X optimal lean body weight in pounds] + 70 Most female cats should weigh a nice, lean 10 -11 pounds.   Most male cats should fall into the 11 -13 pound range.

Using an optimal body weight of 12 pounds as an example, we come up with 233 calories/day as a starting point.

[13.6 X 12 pounds] + 70 = 233"

Now, kiwi is not overweight and is about 9.6lbs and is a two year old male. i would say medium activity to sometimes high depending on his mood.. and occasionally he just is a lump in the sun.. so a normal cat..   If i do the math for this second set of info.. i get that he should be eating three (3oz) cans of his food ..

I'm confused as to which i should go by.. i have trouble as is getting him to eat a full three cans a day currently.. and for a while after switching him off dry kibble he was very inactive and acted almost like he wasn't getting enough..  so i can push for three but i am confused as to what he SHOULD be eating.. I would like to get him to 10lbs but only if that means it's muscle and not making him fat.. but i'm rather confused as to which equation i should be using to figure out his dietary requirements... If i go by Royal Canin's suggestion he'd be force fed almost 4 cans a day.. lol

Thanks for the help!

Click to expand...

I have seen this contradiction myself at Lisa Pierson's page. I would go with the first calculation that uses between 15-20 calories per pound for a cat that is a healthy weight. I don't believe in using this method for an overweight cat however. Overweight cats didn't become overweight overnight and so the weight loss needs to be gradual to prevent problems with the liver, and to ensure that a cat is getting enough calories to feel satiated. On the other hand, the second method would be too many calories. The method I like to use is calories based on 80% of current weight as a starting point and slowly decrease from there. So for an 18 pound cat, this would be calories based on 14 pounds, not 12.

As you feel that your cat is a bit underweight at the 9.6 pounds, I would take the calculation of 20 calories per pound as you say that he is fairly active, which gives you a caloric intake of 200 calories per pound per day, or feed 3 x cans of your present food at 68 calories. The other option is to feed a wet canned that is a little higher in calories, as xcourtney3 suggested.

oneandahalfcats said:

 
I have seen this contradiction myself at Lisa Pierson's page......

Click to expand...

Well........here's an idea:  From personal experience, I know that Dr. Pierson replies to inquiries, and I'm certain that she would be more than willing to take a look at this issue, because she herself has authored those articles.

oneandahalfcats, why not drop her a line, perhaps with the subject line "Contradictions in website articles"......that's guaranteed to catch the eye of the busiest online author!  I think I might also give her this thread's link.  Here's the 'where to' :   [email protected]

One point I'd like to drop into this discussion....while calories are one dimension of this issue, so is the quality of those calories by way of source/origin, as in fat and protein from appropriate meat muscle and fat.

White Shadow said:

 
Well........here's an idea:  From personal experience, I know that Dr. Pierson replies to inquiries, and I'm certain that she would be more than willing to take a look at this issue, because she herself has authored those articles.

oneandahalfcats, why not drop her a line, perhaps with the subject line "Contradictions in website articles"......that's guaranteed to catch the eye of the busiest online author!  I think I might also give her this thread's link.  Here's the 'where to' :   [email protected]

One point I'd like to drop into this discussion....while calories are one dimension of this issue, so is the quality of those calories by way of source/origin, as in fat and protein from appropriate meat muscle and fat.

Click to expand...

I have corresponded with Lisa Pierson in the past on another matter.    Its not really a problem for me as I don't use these formulas per se, but a good suggestion for the OP though!

As for quality of calories, while I will agree that this is important, it may be something different for everyone depending on their budget and availability of different foods. I feed my crew Nature's Variety, GO Brand, and some FF occasionally. Not everyone can afford to feed only premium brands of food. So long as cats are getting decent wet canned as the majority of their diet, I think this covers the most important requirement for protein and moisture.

thank you thank you!  We're working on finding a better food than the Adult Instinctive cans we have.. but he turns his nose up at every thing we've tried so far, We do want better calories and higher calories than what he's eating, but his palate is apparently hard wired on the Royal Canin.  We've tried almost a little bit of everything they sell at petsmart.. Only thing he actually ate some of was a cheapy .50$ container of meow mix... and even that was a bite or two.. 

I'm working on getting him worked up before a meal with lots of play and activity which does help his appetite but still he doesn't eat more than half a 3oz can at each meal.. so we split each can up by a few hours to get him to not waste the food as well as add a little water to it to keep him hydrated and help prevent any further urinary issues..

I have been working on some of the newer canned foods and getting him to at least try them with a little witholding during the day.. and letting him get hungry with zero treats and no free feeding. He'll still turn his nose up at the food, and i cannot let him starve. But at least i have broken him of the Kibble addiction...

I had been going by the "if he looks small feed more" kind of attitude, but when he was taken off dry kibble he lost weight i didn't even know he had and looks rather trim and healthy,  in fact, he looks almost exactly like the photo on Dr. Pierson's page of the cat with the "Waist"  marker from above and is heavy like a brick.. 

I shall now start the search of a higher, healthier calorie canned food for him...  Thank you for the tip, I had been trying to find a "healthier" food.. but didn't even think of a higher calorie food, not sure why. Lol  I would be happy if he ate any food other than the Royal Canin, as much as we love what it did for our prior 26 year old boobear.. the Adult instinctive has gone through a lot of changes or at least.. doesn't do well with shipping like most canned food does.. the batches seem to change month to month and i'm almost always at least once every 5 months calling RC to ask about a nasty scented batch that even the dog snorts at...

Thanks for the advice!