Obi keeps throwing up hairballs.. : (

Great idea!  Except Obi is a scarfer and Mittens is a leisurely diner, so he might elbow her out of her food....

I also wanted to mention that I had a phone consult today with a vet at the School of Veterinary Medicine.  She seemed to think it was unusual for a cat to only throw up hairballs, in other words, that Obi does not also vomit food.  I told her that only rarely - and more recently - that he will throw up some food with the hair.

I also gave him his first dose of SEB syrup.  It seemed like such a tiny bit!  1/4 tsp!  I will give him another 1/4 tsp in the AM.

I wonder why she thinks that's odd? I find it odd she thinks that. :lol3:

He has a motility problem that relates to gastric emptying. Indigestible solids are the last thing to leave the stomach. He doesn't pass the hair. It collects, gets bound up with fat, irritates him, and up they come.

:dk:

You might want to send her this:

http://www.veterinarypracticenews.c...c-vomiting-in-cats-isnt-normal-after-all.aspx

myrnafaye said:

 
I also wanted to mention that I had a phone consult today with a vet at the School of Veterinary Medicine.  She seemed to think it was unusual for a cat to only throw up hairballs, in other words, that Obi does not also vomit food.  I told her that only rarely - and more recently - that he will throw up some food with the hair.

I also gave him his first dose of SEB syrup.  It seemed like such a tiny bit!  1/4 tsp!  I will give him another 1/4 tsp in the AM.

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??? I don't know why she would think that food should come up with hairballs. It would be a very rare occasion that food would come up with the hair, unless the cat has just eaten.

Re. feeding small meals per day, this is actually better for the digestion for all cats. I feed 3+ times per day (5:30AM, 10:00AM, 3PM and 6PM). The 6PM feeding is a small amount of high quality kibble. If you can manage to increase the frequency of feedings with smaller amounts, this may also help Obi's digestion to settle down. He may also learn to be less of a scarfer in gettng fed more frequently

Re. the SEB dosage, its always a good idea when introducing something new, to start in small amounts to ensure that it is well tolerated. You can safely up the amount to 1/2  tsp if things are going well.

Yes, I know - I agree with you.  But, I was not too concerned even about the hairballs until they increased dramatically.  I am thinking that if she was considering IBD as a possibility, cats generally have other symptoms as well...?

Did you read the article about the study published? Tossing hairballs more than once every two months in a domestic short hair is a symptom of small bowel disease. The study is recent, published last year.

The study itself found that 99 of 100 cats examined / biopsied had small bowel disease. The only symptom was vomiting. 40% was hairballs (if I'm remembering correctly). And 25% had cancer. (Again, I may not be remembering accurately). These were all cats the owners had attributed the vomiting to the reasons listed in the article.

Yes, I did see that article and it is scary.  Still, surely not every cat that vomits hair has a bowel disease.  And, the study did not control for diet, etc.  It is possible that, for example, a percentage of the cats (especially those with cancer) were eating a very different diet than the ones who did not develop cancer or some other related inflammation.  I have problems with studies like this because they are poorly controlled.

LDG said:

I wonder why she thinks that's odd? I find it odd she thinks that.

He has a motility problem that relates to gastric emptying. Indigestible solids are the last thing to leave the stomach. He doesn't pass the hair. It collects, gets bound up with fat, irritates him, and up they come.

You might want to send her this:

http://www.veterinarypracticenews.c...c-vomiting-in-cats-isnt-normal-after-all.aspx

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Interesting article!  My cats were not biopsied but ll 3 have IBS/IBD with diarrhea.  Two of the 3 cats are related, but they still had triggers that were different from one another.  Hairballs is a problem in my house and the last problem that I'm still working on.  Changing to raw reduced the shedding, but what shedding they still do can end up as hairballs and the only tried and true thing for mine is Temptations hairball treats.  I'll be working on a different solution soon.

FWIW, mine generally throw up hair only once they've eaten (mixing food and hair).  It's not even a lot of hair, oddly enough.  One time a month or 2 ago I forgot to add the 18 egg yolks to their 15-18 lbs of food...I definitely noticed a difference in hairballs!  But even once I added it to the next month's batch, it doesn't completely eliminate the problem.  Again, I'm still working on that.  Well, when I'm not exercising/sleeping/studying for boards.

In any case, just wanted to add my info to the pot.  Between everyone's info we might can come up with solutions. 

myrnafaye said:

Yes, I did see that article and it is scary.  Still, surely not every cat that vomits hair has a bowel disease.  And, the study did not control for diet, etc.  It is possible that, for example, a percentage of the cats (especially those with cancer) were eating a very different diet than the ones who did not develop cancer or some other related inflammation.  I have problems with studies like this because they are poorly controlled.

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Oh clearly, not every cat that vomits or has hairballs has small bowel disease. But tossing frequent hairballs isn't normal, and yes, that can be the only symptom of small bowel disease.

And the study had no controls because it wasn't anything other than an evidence-based work. IMO, the findings are no less significant, and studies like this pave the way for further research.

This was merely my response to the vet to whom you spoke. Evidence-based research indicates the relationship between "just" vomiting hairballs and small bowel disease: it should not be ruled out when that is the only symptom.

YES, I do agree!  which is why, when he started tossing hairballs almost daily,  I became alarmed.  I think what the Vet School vet may have been doing was basing her comments on the fact that many cats with IBD DO more than toss hairballs.  HOwever, I realize frequent hairball vomiting, even if it is overgrooming related, is a motility-related issue.

At the same time, cats do throw up hairballs, and not all of them have small bowel disease.. I think the whole hairball issue is in controvesy right now for veterinarians.

Obi    Update:  Yesterday he was great.  But this morning he did not wake me up to feed him, and I found a small, hard stool  outside his box.  At first I thought it was a hairball, but on closer examination, I think it was a stool - possible with hair mixed in.  So, because it was so hard, I added in 1/4 tsp metameucil into his morning cocktail of 1/4 SLB; 1/4 tsp probiotic, and 1/2 capsule EYL.  I didnt know whether to increase the SLB to 1/2 tsp, or do the metameucil.  Because his stool were lager and softer with metameucil in the mix, I decided to do that, since it was too early to post and hope I would get a response before his breakfast.  So that is one question:  Increase the SLB, or add metameucil?  another question:  if I am feeding them both three smaller meals, and if the first one is between, say, 6 and 7 AM, when should the other 2 meals be?  and, how much food in each meal??   I have always eyeballed the amount of food in each of 2 servings, but with feeding 3 x's a day, I am finding I dont know how much to give them, so that it is not too much for Obi to digest, but so that they are not hungry all the time...TIA.   

I don't remember what other medications he is on but is he taking Miralax or something like it.  The volume isn't really what 'counts' if you will, in fact too large will stretch out the colon and lead to something called megacolon.  Better food like the NV will cause smaller stool because the cat is using more of the food and there is less to come out.  Raw fed kitties have very little stool, dry kibble fed kitties have large ones.  The Miralax retains fluid in the colon so the stool is softer.

I would still recommend sticking with the SEB minus the psyllium. Obi only just started the SEB yesterday and so it generally takes 24-48 hours for it to get working. Good to read that the stool had hair in it. This is as it should be.

Re. the feedings, I generally feed about every 4 hours. The amount of the portion should be based on your cat's ideal weight. In general, male cats should weigh between 10-12 pounds and an average daily caloric intake should be based on 15-20 calories per pound depending on Obi's energy level. So if Obi is a 10 pound cat for example, you would be looking to feed roughly 200 calories per day. Without going into a lot of calculation, I usually feed 2 ounces per feeding which is a 1/4 cup and amounts to 6 ounces per cat per day based on 3 feedings per day.

EDIT: You will want to take a look at the calorie count of the wet canned/dry that you are feeding as some foods will be higher/lower in calories.

Denise and Oneandahalfcats, thank you.  The thing is, yesterday Obi was great. Harangued me for his breakfast at 6, was alert and lively.  Today he seems somewhat subdued.  I did not realize that about metameucil and megacolon, and stool volume, thank you very much.  I gave him only 1/4 tsp twice a day of the SLB; should I increase that a bit tomorrow?  I wont do anymore metameucil today, I will just give his 1/4 tsp SLB later today.Oneandahalf, I guess I will have to start weighing out the food so I know how much I am giving.  I can do every 4 hours on the weekdends but not during the week.  So Im thinking 3 meals of 6 oz for Obi, and somewhat less for Mittens, as he is 11+ lbs, and she is more petite.  and a slower eater.  BTW, how does one have a half of a cat?  

Do you mean 6 oz spread out across 3 meals?   One 5.5 oz can of the rabbit has 220 calories, one can a day is sufficient calories.

I would give things 2 or 3 days to see how it goes unless he is becoming obviously constipated.  If this is some form of IBD there will be good and bad days until you get things sorted out and he is on a regimen that works for him.  Unfortunately most of this is trial and error.  What works is specific to a kitty.

I think you can safely increase the SEB to 1/2 tsp. This is the dosage I was giving to my male cat, Max and his ideal weight 'should be' about 12-13 pounds. We are currently working on getting him down from 15 pounds

Here is a link to a long-running thread that I started about Max, his constipation, and our journey with Slippery Elm. I have documented our use of this and there are other members who have chimed in from time to time to share their stories. You may find this helpful and encouraging : http://www.thecatsite.com/t/270597/slippery-elm-bark-wet-food-managing-constipation

My handle is from a bit of a long standing joke my husband and I had when we adopted the first two of our now, three cats. Max and Maggie are both tabbies, but are very different in size. Max is a big boy and Maggie is quite petite and rougly half his size, sans the joke and subsequent handle here, 'oneandahalfcats'

Denice said:

 
Do you mean 6 oz spread out across 3 meals?   One 5.5 oz can of the rabbit has 220 calories, one can a day is sufficient calories.

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^^ Yes, it should be roughly 6 ounces total per cat, per day. Some foods will be higher in calories than others, and so if you find a food that exceeds 200 calories, you may want to hold back some of the can depending on the food and if you are managing weight.

Just adding another opinion about the metamucil, which is primarily psyllium. Don't give too much. Bigger stools are not better. I am giving some to Tim to help him as we wean him off cisapride, but I am carefully monitoring his stools to make sure they don't get too big. Right now, I am mixing up 1/16 tsp of psyllium with a lot of water and splitting this dose between two cats - 2/3 of the dose to Tim and 1/3 to Abby (and Abby only gets it during certain weather conditions, otherwise I toss the rest). This is every other day, only once per day in the evening. On the alternating days, I do the same thing with slippery elm powder. I plan to taper both of these fibers once Tim is off cisapride and pooping regularly. Additionally, I pick the peas and carrot chunks out of the Nature's Variety rabbit as I don't want to add any extra insoluble fiber, which is more bulking than either psyllium or slippery elm, which are primarily soluble fibers. What I am doing now is working, as both cats are passing hair in their stools. But it took me a while to get here with Tim.

Regarding food, Tim is a scarfer. Because both my husband and I work full-time out of the home, we can only feed twice per day. But we stretch out each meal over 60-90 minutes. As an example, I will provide the first plates of food at 5:30am. Because Tim is bigger and eats faster, I give him twice as much as Abby, which means they finish at about the same time. Depending on what time I need to leave for work, I'll give plate #2 30-45 minutes later, again giving more to Tim. I do the same for plate #3. Then I sneak plate #4 to Abby. We'll do something similar in the evening, except I sometimes stretch the feedings over two hours, and we sometimes give a before-bed snack. This is working for us right now, but it took us a while to get here.

Just an FYI .. Some grains and veggies can be considered both soluble and insoluble. Carrots, peas are generally soluble forms of fiber along with pumpkin. Sources of insoluble fiber are things like whole grains, whole bran, rice, etc. The difference being that soluble fiber dissolve in water, insoluble fiber does not. I would consider psyllium an example of both a soluble and insoluble fiber as it will use available water in the colon and expand to create bulk. If a cat is constipated and there is already a deficit of moisture in the system, psyllium can actually make things worse.

oneandahalfcats said:

 
Just an FYI .. Some grains and veggies can be considered both soluble and insoluble. Carrots, peas are generally soluble forms of fiber along with pumpkin. Sources of insoluble fiber are things like whole grains, whole bran, rice, etc. The difference being that soluble fiber dissolve in water, insoluble fiber does not. I would consider psyllium an example of both a soluble and insoluble fiber as it will use available water in the colon and expand to create bulk. If a cat is constipated and there is already a deficit of moisture in the system, psyllium can actually make things worse.

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True, most fibers are both soluble and insoluble. I've noticed bigger stools with the peas and carrots, even without the psyllium. The psyllium seems to do a better job of softening stools and removing hair, and maybe this is because I add A LOT of water to the tiny, tiny amount of psyllium before even mixing it with the food (you know I am paranoid about Tim's stools getting too bulky). Keeping the peas and carrots in just resulted in bigger stools (yes, I am measuring these days). But every cat is different!