Obi keeps throwing up hairballs.. : (

myrnafaye

TCS Member
Thread starter
Super Cat
Joined
Apr 20, 2014
Messages
923
Purraise
164
Stephen, we (the vet and I) talked about only adding in one thing at a time, and was that important.  But, the vet felt that we needed to do all we can to get the hairballs under control right now.  I expect the other remedy, the Vet's Best Hairball Relief, to arrive within a day or two, and can try that then...I may also communicate with the company.
 

raintyger

TCS Member
Top Cat
Joined
Oct 17, 2012
Messages
1,690
Purraise
139
Location
Long Beach, CA
Hmmm...

Poppy spat out fewer hairballs when I switched her to wet food only.

She did have IBD and constipation, but are we talking hairballs that get vomitted out? She had lots of hairballs that passed through.
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #3

myrnafaye

TCS Member
Thread starter
Super Cat
Joined
Apr 20, 2014
Messages
923
Purraise
164
Wet food only here, less additives and irritations to the GS tract; more water so less worries about hydration.  I thought hairballs meant hair that gets vomited up.  If it passes through, it is feces.
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #4

myrnafaye

TCS Member
Thread starter
Super Cat
Joined
Apr 20, 2014
Messages
923
Purraise
164
I have noticed that my cat with the hairball issues tends to vomit up his hairball shortly after he evacuates in the litter box...is this common, and what, if anything, does it mean?
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #5

myrnafaye

TCS Member
Thread starter
Super Cat
Joined
Apr 20, 2014
Messages
923
Purraise
164
I am doing everything I can think of; natures Variety rabbit canned food; metameucil, egg yolk lecithin; he is on 2.5 mg pred and metaclopramide, and pepcid.AND U brush him. Nothing seems to help.  In addition, before making all these changes, he used to          throw up a solid hairball t hat looked like stool; now he is tossing hair mixed in with food, and I dont know if that is good or bad.  His appetite is good and his attitude is too, but I can generalyl tell when a hairball is in his digestion, his mood shifts some.  

Have communicated several times a week with the vet...but vets dont seem to know a lot about persistant hairballs, and three out of three vets think he is overgrooming himself (due to allergy but I dont see him doing this.) 

I am worried about him and am afraid the next step is an ultrasound...
 

ldg

TCS Member
Veteran
Joined
Jun 25, 2002
Messages
41,310
Purraise
842
Location
Fighting for ferals in NW NJ!
I'm so sorry! :hugs: Poor Obi. :(

When did you switch to the NV rabbit?

Obviously there is a motility issue here, whether or not he officially has IBD. :( What we need to know is if this is due to a diet switch, in which case it *should* be just an issue of time, while his GI tract heals on what should be an anti-inflammatory diet, or if there's a further underlying problem that needs to be addressed: leaky guy (probiotics - best one would be Nexabiotic as it combines S boulardii, aciodphilus strains and bifidobacterium - slippery elm, bone broth ... conventional meds would be reglan to keep hair moving through his system, perhaps a short course of pred to bring down the inflammation).

FYI, I haven't seen a cat yet diagnosed with IBD that presented as vomiting, not diarrhea, NOT have the issue resolve in a switch to raw. I'm sure it'll happen, but ....

The issue may well be one of the ingredients in the NV. I realize it's a novel protein diet. But it's still got a very long list of ingredients. If you want to find out if it's the food, are you willing to use a "novel" protein like pork? Braise/poach it yourself at home, grind it up in a blender or food processor with some water (ALL of the water used to cook it, that has valuable nutrients in it), and feed only this to him for a week? It's not long enough to worry about balancing, but if something in the NV rabbit is bothering him, this is the best way to find out if it's the food. (Just check the sodium content before purchasing it. A lot of pork is "enhanced" with a sodium solution. If the sodium per serving is less than 100mg, it's OK to use).
 
Last edited:

ldg

TCS Member
Veteran
Joined
Jun 25, 2002
Messages
41,310
Purraise
842
Location
Fighting for ferals in NW NJ!
Though you could try adding digestive enzymes. Twice a day. Prozyme Plus is lactose-free, and it takes very little of it on the food. If you want to try this, put the digestive enzymes on the food (or mix them into it) and let them sit for 10 - 15 minutes before feeding.
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #8

myrnafaye

TCS Member
Thread starter
Super Cat
Joined
Apr 20, 2014
Messages
923
Purraise
164
 I switched to the rabbit about 2.5-3 weeks ago.  What raw food is recommended here for this group of problems?

He is ON pred, and my vet just t his minute told me to increase his dose to 5 mg from 2.5.  I am not happy.
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #9

myrnafaye

TCS Member
Thread starter
Super Cat
Joined
Apr 20, 2014
Messages
923
Purraise
164
Where do I buy prozyme plus?  and give how much??
 

ldg

TCS Member
Veteran
Joined
Jun 25, 2002
Messages
41,310
Purraise
842
Location
Fighting for ferals in NW NJ!
:( :hugs: :rub:

The food switch happens to coincide with shedding season. :( But I expect part of the problem is the switch and his body adjusting to the new diet. I would expect this to calm down in a few weeks, both because the worst of shedding season should be behind us, and because his GI system will work more efficiently with the new food. When people switch to raw quickly, this is quite common. I expect this is a similar issue, so you may want to wait to see what happens (though trying the digestive enzymes may help). This - and other GI distress issues - are the main reason that - especially with IBD kitties - food transitions should be done very slowly. It's natural to get anxious and just want kitty eating the new food. But again - especially with sensitive kitties - the process of getting there is so important.

I don't know where you're located, but most pet stores carry Prozyme. I buy it on amazon, but I'd be surprised if Chewy's or OnlyNaturalPet.com, etc. don't carry it.

My cats eat roughly 1.5 ounce portions. I give them 1/32 teaspoon at meals - basically a reasonable pinch. Of course, with anything new for a kitty in distress, it's best to start smaller and work up to the full amount over a few days.

I don't know where you're located. But the best raw food for sensitive cats is Rad Cat. Unfortunately, they don't carry anything other than chicken, turkey, and lamb. But it is a very, very simple diet (and is balanced & complete). It uses eggshell instead of bone, which makes it very easy on a sensitive system, and most cats really enjoy it when it is properly introduced (nice and slow!). The best thing about it is that it is single-sourced proteins. http://www.radfood.com/products The site has a store locator. If it's carried near you, they do have trial sizes.

If the proteins are a problem, it's probably easiest to buy from Hare Today, if that is a shipping option (they do have incredibly reasonable prices for shipping the frozen food). They're based in western PA, and it's easily shipped from Maine to FL, WI to TX. TCS members in CO and AZ purchase it with 3-day shipping and extra ice packs. We can help in the Raw & Home-Cooked forum if you're interested in that option, it's not quite just buy & serve, but it's not complicated to use. The main issue is that trying it is costly due to the cost of shipping smaller amounts.

I just don't know Obi's background, so have no clue if he needs single-sourced proteins, if bone could be a help or a hindrance, if he needs novel proteins, etc.
 

goholistic

TCS Member
Top Cat
Joined
Feb 27, 2013
Messages
3,306
Purraise
370
Location
Northeast USA
If Obi has inflammation, it can affect motility (as @LDG mentioned). An ultrasound would look at this. Prior to Sebastian's onset of pancreatitis, he was throwing up hairballs frequently exactly as you describe. They were huge, and from a distance they looked like poo.
 

abbyntim

TCS Member
Alpha Cat
Joined
Feb 16, 2014
Messages
548
Purraise
47
Location
southern california
 
If Obi has inflammation, it can affect motility (as @LDG mentioned). An ultrasound would look at this. Prior to Sebastian's onset of pancreatitis, he was throwing up hairballs frequently exactly as you describe. They were huge, and from a distance they looked like poo.
I wanted to tag onto this. Tim had a pretty rough bout with diarrhea a couple of weeks ago that also included pretty severe vomiting. Not surprisingly, in the week that followed, he had a couple of significant hairballs after none for over two months. Now that his stomach has settled down, he's back to no hairballs (so far, anyway). I believe Tim's hairballs were due to inflammation. Initially, it took a couple of months for me to see improvement in Tim's digestion, though we were lucky that "no hairballs" was the first visible sign. I have discovered, though, that I have to make changes very slowly or he gets digestive upset. You're making a lot of rapid changes, and maybe he needs more time for things to settle down. Or you might need to stop something, note any changes, try something else, note changes, and go from there.
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #13

myrnafaye

TCS Member
Thread starter
Super Cat
Joined
Apr 20, 2014
Messages
923
Purraise
164
Obi mostly throws up hair.  I am at my wits end.  My vet is supportive but ..is upping his pred the only option?  if I change his food - again - isnt that likey or a possibilty, to throw off his system even more?  I added metameucil and EYL, and his stools look better but now there is also a bit of diarrhea ...whats that from?  his belly is not tender at all and  he has a good appetite; several vets think he is overgrooming due to allergies, how do I know if its an airborne allergan or a food allergy?  I can t keep changing and adding things - but I need a treatment plan!
 

goholistic

TCS Member
Top Cat
Joined
Feb 27, 2013
Messages
3,306
Purraise
370
Location
Northeast USA
When Sebastian was throwing up hairballs, he still had a good appetite, as well, which is why I didn't think anything of it and thought they were just hairballs. But something was a-brewin'. 


Okay. Can you post his current regime of food, medications, and supplements in a list format? Let's take a look at everything at once.

Overgrooming can also be caused by stress.
 

ldg

TCS Member
Veteran
Joined
Jun 25, 2002
Messages
41,310
Purraise
842
Location
Fighting for ferals in NW NJ!
Okay. Can you post his current regime of food, medications, and supplements in a list format? Let's take a look at everything at once.
Great suggestion. :nod:

I also recommend you start keeping a journal. What you give him, when, what comes out, when. This may be very helpful in identifying patterns.

The soft stool can be the egg yolk lecithin. IBD kitties and kitties with sensitive systems can be sensitive to ... everything.
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #16

myrnafaye

TCS Member
Thread starter
Super Cat
Joined
Apr 20, 2014
Messages
923
Purraise
164
Yes, Ok, thank you kindly. 

Food:  Nature's Variety Rabbit - novel protein.

supplements:  metameucil, about a half a tsp per meal with water to make a gel, and put into his food.

                        Swansons Egg Yolk Lecithin; just started this so not clear about what amount, I have been titrating it, but lets say 1/2 capsule  twice a day in his food.

Meds:  2.5 mgs prednisolone.  Vet wants me to up it to 2...5 twice a day, and I did tonight after two consecutive days of hairballs, but I am not happy about it.

            1.25 mg metaclopramide twice a day

             2.5 mg pepcid twice a day.

I brush him every day.  I noticed tonight that he is indeed overgrooming his belly, the hair there is sparce.  So does t hat mean he is overgrooming, or that is belly is uncomfortable?  both?  either?  How do I know what is going on, IBD or allergy, and if it is allergy, how do I know if it is food or an airborn allergen?

Thank you all so much.  I hope to hear back soon.

I also need to say that within the last month and a half, I changed his food twice.  Both my cats LOVE the rabbit.  but, I notice that where Obi used to throw just hairballs, now there is food mixed in with the hairball.  :  (
 

oneandahalfcats

TCS Member
Top Cat
Joined
Dec 13, 2013
Messages
1,437
Purraise
179
 
Yes, Ok, thank you kindly. 

Food:  Nature's Variety Rabbit - novel protein.

supplements:  metameucil, about a half a tsp per meal with water to make a gel, and put into his food.

                        Swansons Egg Yolk Lecithin; just started this so not clear about what amount, I have been titrating it, but lets say 1/2 capsule  twice a day in his food.

Meds:  2.5 mgs prednisolone.  Vet wants me to up it to 2...5 twice a day, and I did tonight after two consecutive days of hairballs, but I am not happy about it.

            1.25 mg metaclopramide twice a day

             2.5 mg pepcid twice a day.

I brush him every day.  I noticed tonight that he is indeed overgrooming his belly, the hair there is sparce.  So does t hat mean he is overgrooming, or that is belly is uncomfortable?  both?  either?  How do I know what is going on, IBD or allergy, and if it is allergy, how do I know if it is food or an airborn allergen?

Thank you all so much.  I hope to hear back soon.

I also need to say that within the last month and a half, I changed his food twice.  Both my cats LOVE the rabbit.  but, I notice that where Obi used to throw just hairballs, now there is food mixed in with the hairball.  :  (
How long has your cat been taking the Metoclopramide, Pred and receiving Pepcid? It could be that the drugs in combination with the changes in food are causing his digestive system to become imbalanced. The vomiting of hair with food could be a side effect of a larger problem of IBD. One of the causes for IBD is long-term medication use. I think what you need to do is revisit the use of these drugs to see if they are still helping as they should, and try something natural like the Slippery Elm that I mentioned in your other thread. If your cat is experiencing problems with constipation, motility, then the slippery elm can certainly help with this. It also is effective in alleviating nausea and acid-reflux, so might be something to consider in lieu of the Metoclopramide.

The over grooming is concerning and could be a sign of stress, or a possible side effect of the Metoclopramide.
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #18

myrnafaye

TCS Member
Thread starter
Super Cat
Joined
Apr 20, 2014
Messages
923
Purraise
164
Thank you for your reply and your interest  Obi has been on  these drugs since the hairballs increased, about since the beginning of March.  We started with Prednisolone and pepcid, but I asked if there was something that could calm his GI tract, so we added in the metaclopramide.So, the meds are probably unrlelated to IBD because they are a recent addition, in response to the hairball, which, as I say, three vets say results from overgrooming, and in fact I have noticed that more lately and a thinning of the hair on his lower adomen.  He does not appear to be stressed.  I need to underscore that the drugs were a response to what my vet felt was an inflammation (elevate, slightly elevated, eosinophils) either due to allergies or some slight IBD.  However, he for the most part does not have diarrhea, as most IBD cats have, I believe.

But the overgrooming/increased hairball production preceded the medication.  The medication was in response to the hairballs/overgrooming.

What it comes down to, I think is the the following:  Do I repeat his blood work, to see if anything has changed?  Do I have him have an ultrasound which might or might not tell us much, if anything?  do I change his food again?  Or, stay the course with the food, and see if his digestion settles?

BTW, I added a probiotic this AM - I figured it could not hurt and might help.  He had a very small meal this morning because he vomited last night,  Ill give him small meals today. 
 

oneandahalfcats

TCS Member
Top Cat
Joined
Dec 13, 2013
Messages
1,437
Purraise
179
 
Thank you for your reply and your interest  Obi has been on  these drugs since the hairballs increased, about since the beginning of March.  We started with Prednisolone and pepcid, but I asked if there was something that could calm his GI tract, so we added in the metaclopramide.So, the meds are probably unrlelated to IBD because they are a recent addition, in response to the hairball, which, as I say, three vets say results from overgrooming, and in fact I have noticed that more lately and a thinning of the hair on his lower adomen.  He does not appear to be stressed.  I need to underscore that the drugs were a response to what my vet felt was an inflammation (elevate, slightly elevated, eosinophils) either due to allergies or some slight IBD.  However, he for the most part does not have diarrhea, as most IBD cats have, I believe.

But the overgrooming/increased hairball production preceded the medication.  The medication was in response to the hairballs/overgrooming.

What it comes down to, I think is the the following:  Do I repeat his blood work, to see if anything has changed?  Do I have him have an ultrasound which might or might not tell us much, if anything?  do I change his food again?  Or, stay the course with the food, and see if his digestion settles?

BTW, I added a probiotic this AM - I figured it could not hurt and might help.  He had a very small meal this morning because he vomited last night,  Ill give him small meals today. 
If the original problem is hairballs, then you need to get to the heart of the cause of this. These medications only deal with the symptoms of vomiting, nausea and/or acid reflux, but they don't address the hairballs. Did your vet discuss with you some of the side effects of Metoclopramide? Ironically, some of the most common side effects of this drug are vomiting, constipation, nausea, disorientation, low blood pressure, rash, hives, diarrhea, restlessness, sedation, and an increase in a cat’s frequency of urination. (http://www.vetinfo.com/treating-gastritis-cats-metoclopramide-reglan.html). I guess my thoughts regarding these medications is that if the problem originates with hairballs, then there are other more natural ways of dealing with this, that come with little to no side effects. Metroclopramide is not currently approved by the FDA for use in animals, but is prescribed by vets as a go-to drug for treating gastritis. The question is, does your cat have a problem with gastritis. I would want to be sure of this before administering this drug.

Hair should normally be eliminated through feces. When a cat is constantly vomiting up hairballs, there is something else going on, perhaps a problem with constipation or motility or as the result of a lack of fiber. While most cats do not need fiber in their diet, some cats can benefit from this.  That said, there are different types of fiber and cats may respond to one type but not another, so some trial and error is necessary.

I definitely agree that the probiotic is a good thing to introduce, which will help to restore any imbalances in gut flora, and improve his digestion of food. I would stay the course with the current diet, but perhaps rotate with other meats such as chicken and turkey and serve smaller but more frequent meals and see if this can make a difference. I would also incorporate the Slippery Elm, as already mentioned, which will address many of the current issues but most immediately will help to address any inflammation. Pumpkin can also be an effective source of fiber and moisture which can help with constipation if this has been a problem, but is not as bulk-creating as the metamucil you have been giving.

My male cat Max had been dealing with constipation off and on for two years, which after much trial and error and culminating in the transition to wet food and the introduction of Slippery Elm, is pretty much a thing of the past now. I believe my cat's problems all along were due to poor digestion rather than the megacolon that one vet thought. I have since been able to discontinue the SEB in lieu of giving my cats a probiotic with 10 billion CFU, every day, and this is working beautifully to keep Max pooping and everyone's digestion in good shape.

Lastly, I know your vet has recommended these medications, but my gut says that this is not the way to go if the problem is one of hairballs due to constipation or motility. If you are interested in the Slippery Elm, then this would have to take place gradually as I believe cats need to be weaned off of Pred and/or the Metroclopramide, slowly.
 
Last edited:
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #20

myrnafaye

TCS Member
Thread starter
Super Cat
Joined
Apr 20, 2014
Messages
923
Purraise
164
Thank you so much!  I think we can probably stop the metaclopramide, although there is a script waiting for me...

two questions:

1.  please tell me how you administer the slippery elm, where you get it, and how you dose it, do you put it on his food?

2.  What if he is overgrooming because of allergies?  are you saying that the hairballs should still pass?  but, if he has an allergy, what on earth do I do about that?? getting to the bottom of allergies seems like an exercise in futility...
 
Top