NEED OPINIONS - Let Blacky out or Force in house

feline03 · Jun 10, 2014

Thanks again ShadowsRescue for your reply. I went out there this morning and sat for 15 minutes but she just stayed in the corner. I did put a long box for her to go in but she isn't using it. She just stays In the corner. When I got home from work she was in the corner. I went into the house and she came out. I opened the door and sat on the stoop. She actually stayed about 4 feet from me just staring. I would give her slow blinks and then look away . She gave me a couple of winks back which is good. Then I decided to go to the store and get some baby food because she isn't eating much. When I got back she was still in the corner. I taped some baby food on a ruler and tried to feed her but she just wacked it out of my hand. I tried again but she won't eat it so I left It on the spoon in front of her and just sat there not looking at her and talking to her telling her about my day. I will try to go back out at dusk and leave some baby food in a bowl to see if she'll eat it that way. What are composure treats? Are they like feliway? I was going to pick up some of that tomorrow. She's not even eating treat either.

I am willing to give up the breezeway if that is what it takes. You are absolutely right, with ferals one step forward and 2 steps back. I have seen this many times with her so far.

I'll keep you posted.

Thanks again.

catsallaround · Jun 10, 2014

Is this a new thing of her not eating or you mean she is not eating when you are there? If it is new and she is getting closer and just started meowing I would be worried she is sick.

feline03 · Jun 10, 2014

catsallaround said:
Is this a new thing of her not eating or you mean she is not eating when you are there? If it is new and she is getting closer and just started meowing I would be worried she is sick.

This is a new thing However, I went to get the baby food. Please see my reply to ShawdowsRescue. I left the room to eat for about a 1/2 hour and when I came back the baby food was off the floor and the spoon. So, I went back in and put some in a bowl and sat out there for about 15 minutes. I am hoping she will eat that. I will check in the morning.

feline03 · Jun 10, 2014

catwoman707 said:
Sorry! Didn't mean to shock you with my thoughts.

It came from my overall feeling for the cat, as I re-read through this thread.

Obviously indoors is so much better for her, or any cat really, and what's best is usually my choice if given one.

But due to the time factor, she is feeling an awful lot of stress these days, why she is crying lately too.

If you had been working with her since you have had her, by now you would have made marked progress. So, because of the delay, I felt maybe you don't have the time or enough interest in working on it, maybe after work you come home tired and simply don't want to deal with it, believe me, I completely understand all of this, and don't want to give the impression I don't fully recognize your efforts and that your heart is in the right place and you do care.

For instance you mentioned putting a tv out there, it's a great idea and will help, but it would have been even better if you would have done this some time ago, earlier in the beginning.

I think your plan is great, I know you are doing what you feel is best for her, I just wish it were started and worked at a bit sooner, for her sake and stress levels.

Giving it another 2 weeks is fine, but you must stay vigilant at what you are planning, what you intend to achieve with her. If it's truly what you want, for her to be indoors permanently, then work at it now, put the extra effort and time into it and be with her, talk to her all the time, read out loud, etc.

Lay on the floor, offer treats in your hand, do this every day and eventually, she will figure out you are not the enemy.

The silence is hard for her too. No cats to communicate with, no sounds at all, only to look out a window, day in and day out, sort of feels like isolation to me, and this is not healthy for her mentally, all around really.

Give it another week or two as you said, but please think after this time what is best for her in the end.

Remember she is feral, never been social with humans, so it is very foreign and hard for her to trust and feel safe.

Also, if you block off the couch, make sure she has someplace to feel safe, a box on it's side with the opening mostly turned to the wall, etc. She needs to not feel she is totally vulnerable. The less stress for her, the more she can ease into the transition.

She must have a comfort zone at all times.

Forcing her to be fully exposed is too much for her to overcome in a short time.

Good luck, as I said, it's only the time factor that caused me to believe she should be let out now, 4 months is a long time.

The reason why I didn't spend much time out there was because it was too cold. Believe me I tried but end up getting frozen after a short while and she would only stay under the couch anyway. I did put boxes set up facing the wall but she won't use them. I am going to try getting some feliaway tomorrow and put it in baby food for her.

shadowsrescue · Jun 10, 2014

feline03 said:
Thanks again ShadowsRescue for your reply. I went out there this morning and sat for 15 minutes but she just stayed in the corner. I did put a long box for her to go in but she isn't using it. She just stays In the corner. When I got home from work she was in the corner. I went into the house and she came out. I opened the door and sat on the stoop. She actually stayed about 4 feet from me just staring. I would give her slow blinks and then look away . She gave me a couple of winks back which is good. Then I decided to go to the store and get some baby food because she isn't eating much. When I got back she was still in the corner. I taped some baby food on a ruler and tried to feed her but she just wacked it out of my hand. I tried again but she won't eat it so I left It on the spoon in front of her and just sat there not looking at her and talking to her telling her about my day. I will try to go back out at dusk and leave some baby food in a bowl to see if she'll eat it that way. What are composure treats? Are they like feliway? I was going to pick up some of that tomorrow. She's not even eating treat either.

I am willing to give up the breezeway if that is what it takes. You are absolutely right, with ferals one step forward and 2 steps back. I have seen this many times with her so far.

I'll keep you posted.

Thanks again.

You may need to try a variety of yummy treats. Try some plain cooked/boiled chicken or tuna. Give her a piece to start and then toss her a piece here and there. The slow blinks are a good sign!! She knows you are the food person!!

Here are some links for Composure. It is a calming treat. It doesn't drug the cat at all just calms them so they are not so fear based. I started with the treats, but then my cat stopped liking them so I moved to the liquid Composure Max.

The liquid is more expensive, but only takes about 1/2 t. per day so it lasts a long time. You might find that since you are on a breezeway and exposed to outside air, the feliway plug in might not work well. You can get the spray which you can spray on certain areas. You could spray the boxes or areas where she eats.

feline03 · Jun 11, 2014

HELP! Blackie is not eating any more. She ate come baby food last night but nothing today. I went out there this morning to spend time with her and she went into the box I left for her and I don't think she came out. It is a long box that had a vacuum cleaner in it. I left a radio on for her with soft music while I was at work. I also bought some stress relief to give her and will put that in some baby food in front of the box I think she is in. Hopefully she will eat it and it will relax her.

Could this mean that she is so stressed that she doesn't want to eat? I am getting worried. She has never not eaten. I don't know if I should let her out. I don't want her to get sick from the stress. Is it better to let her out in the day time or when it starts getting dark? I really wanted to try to socialize her longer but I don't know if I am going to succeed. Has anyone experienced this behavior before? She doesn't look sick; not sneezing and doesn't look like she lost weight. OMG what to do?

catsallaround · Jun 11, 2014

It sounded from your other post that she was starting to stop

After months I do not think the stress would show now unless you really changed things up. I have not had a feral in the house as long as you have had her so no experience there.

Could she have caught a mouse? How is the litter looking? Her eyes and coat? Any new things going on-construction or the like on your street?

feline03 · Jun 11, 2014

catsallaround said:
It sounded from your other post that she was starting to stop

After months I do not think the stress would show now unless you really changed things up. I have not had a feral in the house as long as you have had her so no experience there.

Could she have caught a mouse? How is the litter looking? Her eyes and coat? Any new things going on-construction or the like on your street?

She is more stressed now because she can't go under the couch anymore. But she did go in that box this morning but I don't think she has come out. I am going down now and try the baby food with the stress relief and see if it helps

catsallaround · Jun 11, 2014

Unblock the couch. If she stops eating you will lose her very fast. Let her go under couch and if she starts eating again I would let her out without a doubt. But give the stress relief time to leave her system if it calms her to much. If the music is new turn it off.

msaimee · Jun 11, 2014

Yes, unblock the couch and turn off the music, and leave a variety of food out for her--tuna fish, canned food, chicken breast (if you have it), and whatever she's eaten in the past. Leave her alone completely and see if she starts eating again. If she starts eating again, then you need to let her out. It is better for her to live the life of freedom that she chooses and face the risks that ferals face than live a life of stress, confinement, and depression. If she doesn't eat within the next 24 hours, then you need to have someone assist you in getting her into a carrier and get her to a vet.

shadowsrescue · Jun 11, 2014

Definitely unblock the couch. It was her safety net and she needs it back. As suggested by Ms. Aimee put out all kinds of food; dry, wet, tuna, chicken, baby food, etc.. If she chooses not to eat and hasn't been eating, you will need to decide to let her out or get her to the vet.

I know this is all very hard. It is so hard to give good advice when we are not there to see her in person. You need to go with your gut. See if you unblock the couch and put out lots of food for her. Get lots of yummy food that cannot be resisted; tuna, salmon, mackerel, wet food, dry food, et6c... She may not like the baby food.

ondine · Jun 11, 2014

I am tending to agree with the latest posts.

After all this time, though, her behavior is a little worrisome. I would plan one vet visit first, just to make sure she's healthy. Have you had her combo tested (FIV and FELV). Also ask about FIP - each presents different challenges.

If she checks out, she is probably better off outside. Is there any way you can build her an enclosure? That way, she's safe but outside. Not sure what your situation is but that might be a good compromise. Even if its a small kennel at first, she'll be outside where she apparently wants to be but safe from wandering, which will help you feel better.

No matter what your decision, you've done so much for this cat. Please remember that.

feline03 · Jun 11, 2014

OK. I'll turn the radio off. I checked to see if she ate any of the baby food (which she ate last night) but she hasn't yet. It has the stress relief in it. She liked the crap Purina dry and I still have that and will put some out too. If I unblock the couch she will go under and I may not be able to get her to go out if that is best. I could open the door to the backyard and move the box so she will run out. But, is it better to wait until morning? I can leave the door open and leave the room to see if she leaves.

catsallaround · Jun 11, 2014

You CAN NOT let her out until you know for sure she is eating! I can not stress that enough that she can not be let out.

I really would not even put the stress relief in as it may change the taste. I would look into getting a trap in case you have to go that route to get her to the vet at this point. She does not have much time after not eating and obviously force feeding this cat will be out of the question. Main concern is her eating again. If you can get fancy feast or something get that and give her a buffet to choose from.

If door is left open I am sure she will dart from under couch when she realizes so do not worry about that yet.

catwoman707 · Jun 11, 2014

I do believe she has just become too stressed out at this point, and the couch being blocked is making her feel much too vulnerable and is extremely unsettling.

As I mentioned before, she is not a semi-feral cat, she is a feral all the way.

She has been out of her element and comfort zone for a very long time now, she obviously found that being able to hide under the couch without interruption gave her just enough relief for her to come out at night to eat, etc.

I must say, when a cat will refuse chicken baby food.....that's rather extreme really, as it's irresistable to nearly all cats.

I think you should definitely unblock the couch right away as others have said too, as well as putting out any kind of food she might want to eat.

I would unblock couch, put several foods out and leave her alone, close her area up so she thinks she is alone and safe, and leave her be for the night.

Hopefully she will have eaten something, be sure you measure the amt of dry for instance, so you don't look tmrw am and wonder if she ate or not, and will know the amt too.

IF and only if she has eaten, I personally think it's time for her to be let out.

Just prop the door open and leave her be. If she has not, wait until she does eat to let her go. I think unblocking the couch will bring her back around.

This sort of helps explain my post about letting her go out that you were so surprised I had a change of heart about.

It is extremely hard for a cat to be taken away from what they know and then be as isolated as she has been.

She needs to be with her kind as well, other cats.

I don't think she will stay away, as she knows you have food there, although she may or may not go a bit before coming back around for food.

It's okay, she needs to feel better and her spirit needs to recover too, but soon enough she will bounce back to herself and start to spy while nearby.

I would definitely be leaving dry food out for her so that, whenever she does decide to check in case there is food, it will be there waiting.

Your intentions are clear for her, and we all know this and can appreciate your efforts very much.

However, ferals are different, even though WE know what she is missing out on, how much better her life would/could be, she unfortunately doesn't know. She only knows what she has had, and it's sad, for sure. Life for any living, feeling creature should not be all about dangers, and struggles, and the stress of simply surviving day in and day out. This is natural for her though.

If she were semi feral, once social with humans but for whatever reason became an unowned cat causing reverting to a cat's natural inborn instincts of survival and a lack of human contact for a period of time, she may appear as feral, but that early learned behavior learned by socializing with humans, is never lost and can be regained fairly easily. It is in them and will never be a true feral.

Just the same for ferals who only know that life. You can never undo what is learned in the earliest times of kittenhood. She is an adult and unknown age, so this is the only life she has ever known, which is why it is so very difficult to show them a different life and get them to trust and accept.

feline03 · Jun 11, 2014

catwoman707 said:
I do believe she has just become too stressed out at this point, and the couch being blocked is making her feel much too vulnerable and is extremely unsettling.

As I mentioned before, she is not a semi-feral cat, she is a feral all the way.

She has been out of her element and comfort zone for a very long time now, she obviously found that being able to hide under the couch without interruption gave her just enough relief for her to come out at night to eat, etc.

I must say, when a cat will refuse chicken baby food.....that's rather extreme really, as it's irresistable to nearly all cats.

I think you should definitely unblock the couch right away as others have said too, as well as putting out any kind of food she might want to eat.

I would unblock couch, put several foods out and leave her alone, close her area up so she thinks she is alone and safe, and leave her be for the night.

Hopefully she will have eaten something, be sure you measure the amt of dry for instance, so you don't look tmrw am and wonder if she ate or not, and will know the amt too.

IF and only if she has eaten, I personally think it's time for her to be let out.

Just prop the door open and leave her be. If she has not, wait until she does eat to let her go. I think unblocking the couch will bring her back around.

This sort of helps explain my post about letting her go out that you were so surprised I had a change of heart about.

It is extremely hard for a cat to be taken away from what they know and then be as isolated as she has been.

She needs to be with her kind as well, other cats.

I don't think she will stay away, as she knows you have food there, although she may or may not go a bit before coming back around for food.

It's okay, she needs to feel better and her spirit needs to recover too, but soon enough she will bounce back to herself and start to spy while nearby.

I would definitely be leaving dry food out for her so that, whenever she does decide to check in case there is food, it will be there waiting.

Your intentions are clear for her, and we all know this and can appreciate your efforts very much.

However, ferals are different, even though WE know what she is missing out on, how much better her life would/could be, she unfortunately doesn't know. She only knows what she has had, and it's sad, for sure. Life for any living, feeling creature should not be all about dangers, and struggles, and the stress of simply surviving day in and day out. This is natural for her though.

If she were semi feral, once social with humans but for whatever reason became an unowned cat causing reverting to a cat's natural inborn instincts of survival and a lack of human contact for a period of time, she may appear as feral, but that early learned behavior learned by socializing with humans, is never lost and can be regained fairly easily. It is in them and will never be a true feral.

Just the same for ferals who only know that life. You can never undo what is learned in the earliest times of kittenhood. She is an adult and unknown age, so this is the only life she has ever known, which is why it is so very difficult to show them a different life and get them to trust and accept.

Thanks Catwoman and Shadowsrescue for taking the time to write. After I read the replies from the first one, I rushed down stirs and go the Cat Chow she used to like and put a 1/4 of a cup beside the box. I just looked out the kitchen window again (about 20 minutes after leaving the dry food) and she is on the couch grooming herself. Which usually means they ate. I cut up some cooked chicken I had for dinner and was going to put it out there again but I am afraid she will get stressed again. I think it is best to wait until morning to see what she actually ate. It is a good sign though that she is on the couch where her mat is now and grooming herself.

In the morning, if she ate all the food, do you still think I should let her out?

Let me tell you a little history before you answer that okay. Before I trapped her on the breezeway, I was feeding her for about 8 months. She would come EVERY day at the same time; around 6;45 am when I left for work and when I got home at 5pm she would be sitting on my back steps and would meow when she saw me. I would get food and go down the stairs slowly and she would back off about 12-24 feet. I would then sit on the bottom step and moved the dish closer and closer to me each couple of days until she was eating literally at my feet while I was sitting on the step.I would say over and over Its Okay, It's Okay. I tried to pet her a couple of times but she was too scared. She even played with me a couple of times with a hand toy. While I was in the yard she would be excited she saw me; was yawning and stretching out and her tail strait up and wiggled when I told her she was a pretty girl. By these behaviors, that is why I thought she was a stray turned feral. What is your take on this kind of behavior. While she was in the breezeway she seemed very happy, playing with toys I gave her and sleeping on the couch. It has only been since I blocked the couch of she has taken a step backward.

In my heart, I really thought (? still think) she has had some kind of contact with humans, but I'm not sure now.

If she starts to eat again (I'll leave her old food out), do you still think I should not pursue trying to socialize her? Now that she is using the long box, I could put a carrier in front and try to slip her in it by lifting the box so she slides into it and bring her to a vet for a check up. Then if she is ok I would think about letting my cats out there too

Your thoughts.... should I do the above and just leave her alone for tonight?

Thanks for caring.

rachelinaz · Jun 11, 2014

I am another who feels to unblock the couch and put her food where she can get to it.
Hopefully she will start eating again. Sounds again soon.

Good luck!

catwoman707 said:
I do believe she has just become too stressed out at this point, and the couch being blocked is making her feel much too vulnerable and is extremely unsettling.

catwoman707 · Jun 11, 2014

I'm glad to know that at least she is familiar with you from feeding her outside for many months.

I think her behavior is typical for a feral who is getting fed, which does make them happy, and will appear to be getting comfortable to an extent.

Ferals have it rough in many ways but food is always an issue.

I came up with the expression "tube cat". You can clearly see the average feral struggles to find food, and living off of rodents never gives them any extra meat on their bones, so they keep that tube shaped body. This is survival, but barely, so providing food is a big bonus for cats.

Well it gave us a scare for her when you said she isn't eating. Obviously she has now, and sure the couch access has relaxed her enough to eat again.

Don't you feel in your heart, that she will be a happier cat outside? But continuing to provide her food and cold weather shelter?

Believe me, you can still befriend her, I have done it with countless ferals as I have a cat route I go on at night in town where all the tnr'd cat colonies I have done I continue to care for.

Some will, in time allow you to pet them, many will not. But it is just as rewarding to love them at a distance, because they give you small signs that tell you, you are making them happier, making life easier, and will grow to trust you more and more.

Funny, my colonies I care for, even though I trapped them at one point so I could fix them and vaccinate, they trust me so much that if I wanted to retrap them, I have no trouble doing this. If it's me setting the trap, they don't feel leary or afraid of anything I do. "oh, it's our food mom, let me just get on in this thing and eat". It's nice to know actually, they have that much trust in me

But it takes years to get to that point.

I wish you would seriously think about putting a cat door so she has access during the cold months.

catsallaround · Jun 11, 2014

I still feel strongly to let her out when you know for sure she is eating. I feel cats can socialize outside. My ex feral did. He was so wild they called me to come get him early as he woke up fast from surgery and was very stressed. I let him out that night and took many months but I can now hold him for a short time and groom him. Have had him in for Rabies booster and also to vet for few cat bites that got infected. If blocking couch off caused her to stop eating I think this cat is telling you it NEEDS to be out.

catsallaround · Jun 11, 2014

I would leave her alone. If you end up letting her back out at least you know she went after a restful nights sleep so she can wander/get her bearings of what has changed/stayed the same outside far as spots to sleep,things to do.

NEED OPINIONS - Let Blacky out or Force in house

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