Intact males and size

Have any of you had an intact male and a neutered male from the same breed? Or do you maybe know a breeder?

I'm curious to whether you've noticed if the intact one is larger? Bigger in size, length and so on, but maybe not muscles as much? 

It's just that people always comment on how big our cat is, especially those who live in this neighborhood, where probably all the cats have been neutered. Of course this is very different from cat to cat and from breed to breed, and as he's no particular breed, who knows what kind of different genetics he has! 

I'm a breeder of maine coons - these are big cats lol :lol3:

There is no difference in actual size like height and length. But intact male do tend to have larger heads due to having bigger jowls ( cheeks ) But that's all in difference

So is your male cat not neutered then ?

No he isn't, so I've started thinking about why he's so big. Almost every time we're on a walk people comment that he looks more like a dog 

Since castration of humans(do one even call it that..?) can result to this and a lot more, I'm a bit curious when it comes to animals, but I can't find any good studies, it's just all useless. I guess if you want something done, you have to do it yourself 

Cats just come in different sizes that's all.

I had a domestic shorthair that was huge weighed 18 pounds and he didn't have an once of fat on him. He was just big and he was neutered at 6 months old. His brother from the same litter only weighed 11 pounds :dk:

I think it's just one of them things like humans - some of us are short and others are really tall

Intact males always seem to be bigger in the head  and in the muscles to me, I can pick out a 'tomcat' head from a long way off!

This is from a Winn Foundation paper on early spay/netuer -
 

 Testosterone and estrogen assist maturation of the growth plates in long bones. Growth 
stops when physeal closure occurs. Intact cats have distal radial physeal closure at 1 year 
of age or older. Cats altered at 7 weeks and 7 months of age had distal radial physeal 
closure about 8 weeks later than intact cats. The effect of this delay in physeal closure is 
unknown, but adult size in cats is not significantly affected by age of altering

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So, in theory, neutered animals should be slightly larger (they have more time to grow before their bones "close"). In fact, the animals are about the same size. I know that with my own cats, people used to comment on how huge they are (not overweight, just large) and both had been neutered at the age of 3-4 months. I like to think I was a very nurturing owner  ​ It's probably just their genetics.

This is The Rogue. He's about 19 pounds. He's been neutered at about 3 months old. He's not quite a year old yet and hasn't stopped growing... well, I keep feeding him and occasionally use him to weightlift.

Interesting. My cat was neutered at 2 months, he was quite small at the time, and is now 11 years old and about 10lbs. He was his heaviest about three years ago at 12lbs. Not a very large male cat. He has a weird shape to his body. I always felt it was because he was neutered so young, but I've also been studying dog structure and that may be distorting my view of cats.    

So you have an intact male living inside?

3nails said:

 
Interesting. My cat was neutered at 2 months, he was quite small at the time, and is now 11 years old and about 10lbs. He was his heaviest about three years ago at 12lbs. Not a very large male cat. He has a weird shape to his body. I always felt it was because he was neutered so young, but I've also been studying dog structure and that may be distorting my view of cats.  

 

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But are dogs and cats really that different? They are of course different animals, but there is so much that's similar in animals and humans.. Since humans and dogs usually are considered "more important", there is also more knowledge about them.

I was considering neutering my cat, but decided not to. I am 100% for neutering in general, but when you don't need to, I don't see the point

bigperm20 said:

So you have an intact male living inside?

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Yes, but we do talk him with us on walks

It is quite unusual that your tom hasn't started spraying. Most intact tomcats are rather unbearable to live with indoors (even purebred cat breeders and show people usually keep their toms in enclosures). Lucky you! Hope he doesn't start up later on.

As for size, intact tomcats do have larger heads/jaws. All the toms I see are outdoors and fight a lot, and tend to neglect eating for more important pursuits like mating and fighting, so they always look a bit scrawny in the body and big in the head, kind of funny really :tongue2:. I guess if you want to see what kind of difference there is in body shape for neutered males vs intact males among well-cared-for cats, you could look at pictures of a cat show, Championship class (intact) vs Premier class (neutered). Although most of the Championship cats are younger than the Premier cats so that might make a difference too. But that would be the most informative because you could compare neutered vs intact cats of the same breeds.

Willowy said:

It is quite unusual that your tom hasn't started spraying. Most intact tomcats are rather unbearable to live with indoors (even purebred cat breeders and show people usually keep their toms in enclosures). Lucky you! Hope he doesn't start up later on.

As for size, intact tomcats do have larger heads/jaws. All the toms I see are outdoors and fight a lot, and tend to neglect eating for more important pursuits like mating and fighting, so they always look a bit scrawny in the body and big in the head, kind of funny really

. I guess if you want to see what kind of difference there is in body shape for neutered males vs intact males among well-cared-for cats, you could look at pictures of a cat show, Championship class (intact) vs Premier class (neutered). Although most of the Championship cats are younger than the Premier cats so that might make a difference too. But that would be the most informative because you could compare neutered vs intact cats of the same breeds.

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I haven't thought about cat shows, thank you for the tips!

As for my cat spraying, I'm actually more worried he hasn't started yet. I was under the impression that all intact males do it? He is only ten months though, but he does sometimes pee outside his litter boxes, a bad habit he's had since early on. Because of that it might be difficult to know when he starts spraying..

Curious, are you planning on using your cat as a stud? Why is he not neutered?

Also, it is likely that he hasn't "mastered" the art of spraying yet, but IS able to mark his territory my "urinating" in set places.

CatPack said:

Curious, are you planning on using your cat as a stud? Why is he not neutered?

Also, it is likely that he hasn't "mastered" the art of spraying yet, but IS able to mark his territory my "urinating" in set places.

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There was no reason to neuter him, so I preferred not to do it. He's not any particular breed, so using him in breeding isn't really my plan.

I didn't know urinating also was a way of marking his territory..    Does that mean he has reached sexual maturity then?

He's kind of in the middle of sexually maturing. Like a 16-year-old boy, maybe. He could impregnate a female, he'll posture and fight with other males given the chance, but he's not a full-grown MAN cat yet. It can take up to 3 years for tomcats to reach full social maturity, but usually they're fully sexually mature around 18 months.

Most people see urine marking prevention as a good reason to neuter but if you don't mind it I guess nobody can argue with that .

Pros of neutering a male cat:
-Prevents testicular cancer
- No spraying/marking (if done early enough)
- Prevents him from trying to get outside to mate...this will eventually become an issue. The drive to mate once they are mature is very high and is all that is on their mind.
- Once mature, they can become destructive indoors due to above reason. If they cannot mate, it literally can drive them insane.
- If/when he does get out, he will get into fights over territory/females which leads to FIV/FeLV, infections, abscesses, etc.

The pros for spaying/neutering are not just beneficial for the females. Males are actually more likely to get FIV/FeLV due to the fighting.

Even if your intent is to keep him inside and "deal" with the spraying/marking, his drive to mate will have him doing anything to get outside. (Males can also become very vocal too.) Ask others on here whose intent was to keep their female cat indoors only, but had them escape and they ended up with unexpected litters of kittens.

CatPack said:

Pros of neutering a male cat:
-Prevents testicular cancer
- No spraying/marking (if done early enough)
- Prevents him from trying to get outside to mate...this will eventually become an issue. The drive to mate once they are mature is very high and is all that is on their mind.
- Once mature, they can become destructive indoors due to above reason. If they cannot mate, it literally can drive them insane.
- If/when he does get out, he will get into fights over territory/females which leads to FIV/FeLV, infections, abscesses, etc.

The pros for spaying/neutering are not just beneficial for the females. Males are actually more likely to get FIV/FeLV due to the fighting.

Even if your intent is to keep him inside and "deal" with the spraying/marking, his drive to mate will have him doing anything to get outside. (Males can also become very vocal too.) Ask others on here whose intent was to keep their female cat indoors only, but had them escape and they ended up with unexpected litters of kittens.

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I don't really consider those for reasons, except the one about cancer. However given that the chances for that are slim, I've decided not to worry about it. 

He knows he is allowed to be outside for an hour or more every day, so he usually don't nag about going out. The times he went outside without his leash, he just stood in our yard, looking at me as if really confused. I know that if given the right motivation, a cat can keep on running, but he has to run for a while if he wants to mate, because the cats in the neighborhood are neutered, and it's a big neighborhood. 

The risk of him getting FIV or FeLV is also little to none, so that's nothing to worry about   

There might be a chance that he gets into some trouble with one of the cats here though, if he gets loose. She does like him, but sometimes when she wants to be alone, he doesn't get it..  Then when she goes, he gets a bit vocal

I've given this some thought, so there's no reason to worry, but I appreciate you caring

You've obviously made your mind up. Just know that this site is pro-spay/neuter. Unless you are a breeder and prepared to deal with an entire male feline, you really should take our advice.

Unfixed cats WILL mate. This is almost always the case. An entire male will travel miles and risk his life to traffic, other cats, and wild animals to mate.

Add that to the fact that you will be personally responsible for your cat's offspring. In other words just because you don't have to raise his kittens, doesn't mean they cease to exist. There are too many needy cats dying in shelters to allow new kittens to be born.

I know what your thinking: He'll never get out." That's the logic we hear from owners of female cats here time and time again. Guess what? EVERY TIME the cat ends up pregnant.

Do him and yourself a favor and get him neutered.