To relocate or not ?

I'm currently doing some tnr and trapped 2 kittens around 5-6 months old. My friend lives where the kittens were trapped along with other cats (trapped-sterilized as well) and she will start feeding them. But she plans to move next year..
The cats and kittens survived all winter without my friend feeding her.
She believes some neighboor leaves out food occasionnally.
The landlord doesn't want people feeding cats.
Is it better to return the kittens where they came from or they can readjust living in my backyard (where I provide shelter, food) ?
I just don't believe the neighboors will be reliable caretakers. But somehow the cats over there seem to survive. Is it good or not to tell my friend to feed constantly for a year and then, I am not sure what will happen. So, basically is she helping by feeding even if they manage without her help ? (Considering she won't be there in a year)
I read it is really hard to relocate, but I wonder for kittens, will they adapt more easily ?
Thanks

Thank you so much for neutering these guys! You have the kittens confined now? They have already been neutered and are rehabilitating? Or have they already been released? Can you handle them to any degree?

To me, the answer to your question is obvious, the cats would be better off with you, where they'll have consistent food, shelter, love, and care. If the neighbors have not neutered them by now it's a pretty good indication that you are correct; they are not reliable caretakers.

Relocating can be tricky, but it's very do-able and the younger they are when you do it, the better. The biggest part of relocating them is keeping them confined for a period of time. Long enough for them to feel safe and comfortable and to realize this new location is where the food is. How long that takes depends on so many things, mostly how tame or feral they are.  It is so rewarding and worth any effort and you are WONDERFUL for wanting to do what's best for these guys.

Whether your friend is helping the cats by feeding them, my feeling is yes! As long as she is sterilizing them also. But that gets into a whole 'nother discussion ;-)

I have them confined in my appartment now in a very very small room. One of them is sterilized, the other one will be shortly. I can't handle them, they are always hiding in the open carrier I left in the room. So if I confine them long enough in that room, they will understand that the backyard is their new home ? I mean do they make the connection ?

The question regarding my friend feeding is in fact will they be ok in a year when she won't be there to feed anymore (they were ok before she started to feed them, I am just afraid they will "lose" their hunting skills). And yes these cats are sterilized (except one left to trap!).

Keeping them confined in the room makes them associate the inside of your house as "home."

Is your plan to have then as strictly outside cats? Do you have a shelter outside for them (like a barn or shed?)

In order for them to associate your yard as home (and not completely run off when you release them outside) is to crate them outside for 4+ weeks. They will need to be out of the elements, but be able to take in sights and smells.

Check out Ally Cat Allies (AllyCat.org) for more detailed info on relocating feral cats

If you follow their advice and crate the kittens for at least 4 wks they should stick around.

We relocated a mother/kitten pair about 8 months ago (both very feral.) They are both still sticking close to the shed that they were housed in during their 4 wk adjustment period.

Just as CatPack said, if your intention is to not tame them, but release them outside, then you do need to keep them confined outside. There's no rush to get them out there, but once you do you'll need to keep them confined for quite a while.

Would it be possible to keep them confined inside for a while first, to get them bonded to you and maybe tamed? Again, depending how feral they are, that can take weeks or months, if at all. How long have they been in your apartment? Do you have other pets?

My intention is to release them outside. One of them have been in my app for 2 weeks the other one 5 days, I think they are sisters. I have 2 cats and 1 dog.
They can have shelter under my porch, but it's not escaped proof. So I am planning to buy a shed for them.
The first kitten was so afraid the first few days, I could touch her without her hissing or moving... Now she hisses even if I am just changing water or putting food..maybe she resents me for applying drops in her eyes because of her infection.
So with the second one, who did not hiss, I don't want to make the same mistake, so I don't even try to pet her.
Also, will these young kittens be ok with the other feral/stray cats that are around ? Since the beginning of spring, I've already seen 4 new faces :/.

You are awesome! A shed would be perfect for their confinement. Yup, no petting, no approaching, you can't even look directly at them! Ain't it fun? Such funny little critters they are. She'll eventually calm back down now that you're finished with the medicine . If you're fine with them being in that little room in your apartment for a while give it as much time as you can.

Four new faces , it just never ends. There could be problems, that's for sure, with other ferals constantly showing up, if there is food out. Hopefully, after your two are confined for the necessary length of time, they'll be willing to be locked in the shed at night so you can provide food only when they are locked up at night. Without the allure of breeding or food there's less chance of the others causing trouble. Are there any efforts to tnr the new guys?

Back to one of your original questions about if your friend is doing any harm feeding the cats since she'll be out of the picture in a year or so.... I'm no animal behaviorist, just speaking from lots of observation;

Those cats that are successful hunters will continue to do so whether they're fed or not. Not all cats can hunt successfully enough to sustain themselves. Even those that are very good hunters are sometimes too low in the pecking order to keep their catch. It sounds we're talking about a large feral cat population so it's questionable whether there is an adequate food source. Your friend is helping them, even if she's just buying them a little time.

Yes I'll definately trap et neuter the newcomers ! But I want to feed them too without causing any trouble between the cats. I plan to put a cat door to the shed if that's possible for them to come in and out as they wish.

Where my friend lives, the feral cats don't seem malnourished, one mama cat had babies last December and it was really really cold (the 2 I want to relocate),
so I really hope they have another food source.

Thank you all for your help, really really appreciated.

That's so great of you to tnr the newcomers too. Have I mentioned that you are wonderful for doing all of this? If there is plenty of food and no breeding, then the scuffles will be minimal.

Like you, I hope the others have another food source. But even more so, I hope they all get neutered. It's such an awful life, the constant reproduction. And the number of kittens that are born then quickly die or are killed, just heartbreaking. A lot of times it appears that a group of unhomed and/or feral cats are thriving because there is such a large quantity of them. In fact, what is really being seen are the progeny of last year's (or the year before) litters. I think that it would be a rare occurrence that an unaltered female in an unmanaged colony under the best of circumstances could survive longer than 3 years, and that's assuming she's the "main dame" (my term ).

I always imagine how hard their life must be and I feel so bad.

You could be right about the large amount of cats being only last year's litter or the year before, the ones I tnr'ed are quite young ~1 yr old. It seems like there's 1 cat left in that colony to trap, very smart cat. He's the most visible cat, comes to eat but never in the trap !
I am afraid if in fact he is a "she", I'll have to start over if she has kittens :s.

There's always got to be one, doesn't there? Chances are it is a she. The males seem to be the "easier" of the genders to catch.

Have you been able to visit with the kittens you've got in your apartment? It can do wonders, sometimes, if you just calmly sit with them and talk to them. There's something about a calm, familiar human voice that goes a long way in the taming journey. Personally, I think it's perfectly normal to have conversations with cats, but not everyone (including certain of my family members) agree.   I don't know if this is any more "normal", but you can always read to the cats instead of conversing with them.

When does the other kitten get spayed? I know this has taken a lot of money, time, and energy for you. What you're doing for these cats is the world to them.

Yes I do talk to them, my family thinks I am crazy .

I am now able to play with the second kitten with a string. The first one is still hesitant, but I think the 2nd kitten gives her a good example . They also will gladly accept tuna and treats.

They are already sterilized. It has cost me a lot of time, gas money and sleep BUT the sterilization were free (my city TNR program).

Just wondering how you and the kittens were doing and if you had moved them into their shed yet? With them playing and accepting treats you are really making great progress with them!   

That sounds like a fantastic TNR program but no matter how good it is it wouldn't work without cat angels like you . 

A really nice and expericend lady took the 2 kittens as fosters and will be socializing them .
A really happy ending for those babies even tough I was sad to let them go.. I was already becoming attached .
Now I have to find a way to trap mama kitty, the one who will NOT go into the trap.

That is wonderful news about the kittens!!! Thank you so much for changing their lives. It is so easy go get so attached and it happens so quickly. At least you will be able to get updates on them and how they are doing. Now on to the next challenge, mama.

Yes, I failed to trap her again last weekend .
Thing is this kitty is in my friend's backyard (well my sister in law).
I asked her to just try to notice when she comes to eat so it is easier for me to come at the right time.. And tell her to fill the feeder when it is empty (I provide the food). But nope she "forgets", she has no time, etc. I don't even think to ask her to change the water, I know she won't do it and I don't want to ask too much if I still want "some" collaboration for this last cat. People just dont care, I guess. "It's just a cat."
End of rant.

Rant all you want -here you will find people who understand there's no such thing as "just a cat"!

Because I have to coordinate my work schedule with the clinic's low-cost days I can only trap on Wed. mornings. So, about 2 weeks before I want to actually catch any I put the traps out (velcro-ed open) and start putting canned food in there. They get comfortable going in and out of the traps, so that on catch-ya day I actually have a pretty good chance of success. Is there anyway you could do that with this wily girl? Leave the trap out everyday with her food in there? Sounds like you'd have to feed her daily yourself, though, and not count on your friend.

Well this cat does not go in the trap. I left an open carrier with food inside and water outside so she can get familiar with the carrier.
Last two times I came to check the door was closed due to the wind... She doesn't even care to open it back. So I put the water bowl to hold the door... She moved the bowl for whatever reason and the door was closed again.
You're right, I'll do the feeding myself and not count on her.
Thanks so much for your support

Lot's of prayers that something works! There always seems to be one that is too smart for their own good.

You can velcro the carrier door to the carrier vents to keep it open (velcro and zip-ties are a crazy cat-lady's best friend ), but if she won't come when you're there I don't know how you'd ever get the opportunity to catch her in the carrier. Has she been going into the carrier to eat when she could?

Usually, they get used to you (the food) arriving at a certain time of day. Even if you don't see them, they know you're there. It can take a while to establish a routine with one as smart as this girl, but it will happen. You have to be consistent and adaptable, though. Not always easy to do when you've got a real life you're trying to tend to, too  . 

I've never used one, but others on the site have used a drop-trap successfully. There again, you'd have to be pretty close by for it to work. You know the situation best, but my suggestion would be putting the trap out with her food in it everyday at the same time (preferably dawn or dusk). Give that a couple of weeks, if she still won't go in the trap at all then maybe the TNR program you work with would have a drop trap you could borrow.

Well I can't establish a schedule (since yes I have a real life!), but I've seen her on occasion around 6 or 9 pm.
A drop trap might be good, I'll try to look for one.