scabies or mange? moma cat aggressive with kittens

Hi all,
Don't ask me what's with the cats these days!

I got a call from a friend in Iraq! Telling me that the cat in their compound had delivered about 2 weeks ago - I think she mentioned 5 kitties.

The mother apparently is losingher fur and has blood coming out of her skin. She is also agrrssive against her own kitties (maybe to protect them from whatever she has got?)

I advised them to look for a vet and cat milk and cat vitamin gel asap. But given where they are a vet is hopefully possible but only for basics.

I can try to ship cat milk and vitamins and whatever medication we can give to the mom (hoping this is allowed! But even that will take a long to get there)

They will hopefully email me some photos of kitties and mom tomorrow.

Until we get photos, my questions are:
- they have human multivitamin tablets..will that be ok to give?
-any of the human antibiotics, like doxycyclin, can work for the cat?

Once we get the pictures, im hoping we can sort of guess what can be done to help...

I just remembered a similar case I came across last year. We gave the cat ivermectin and sulfur baths.... but since she was an outdoor cat she ran away and we never saw her again.

I am not sure if she will find ivermectin or any alternative to it in pharmacies there...I sent her the info already.

I am not sure what to do with the babies now... if its indeed mange...it is highly contagious (I itch just thinking about it!)

Any recommendations are highly appreciated

Wow, that's a tricky one. Iraq!? I have no idea what you can or can't get in Iraq and it's of course hard to treat anything if you don't know what it is. It could be many things from mange, ringworm, allergies, etc. That mom is acting aggressive with the kittens is most likely because she's not feeling good and they are bothering her. If possible I would highly recommend that your friend help them out by supplementing the kittens with formula from a bottle. That will give mom a break and get the kittens more nutrients. If they can't get kitten formula they can make something called kitten glop. You can find recipes on the internet. There are many different ones. If they don't have a bottle they can use an eye dropper or an oral syringe and inject the formula very, very slowly with the kitten on its stomach or held upright. They probably want to read up on how to bottle feed kittens as there is a risk of the formula going into the airways which can be fatal. The kittens also need to be burped after feeding.

Since mom is feeling so bad I would separate the kittens from her as much as possible to give her a break. As they get older it may be necessary to separate them all together. It's important that the kittens are kept warm when away from mom.

As far as mom goes, like I said, it's hard to know how to treat her if they don't know what it is. However, there is a shampoo that used to treat both parasitic infections (like mange) and fungal infections (like ringworm) and is usually the go-to treatment here in the US. It's called Malaseb shampoo and is available over the counter. It may be available in Iraq but if it isn't maybe you could send it to your friend. It works very well and you should start seeing results after a couple of baths. It's a several weeks long treatment though so mama cat has to be kept confined. If the kittens get the same thing they can be treated too.

Since mom is so uncomfortable your friend may want to use something like Neosporin (triple antibiotic ointment) on the kitty's skin. That should be available on the base. That may be a good idea anyway to keep the sores from getting infected. If she's very itchy they can also give her Benadryl (1/2 pill).

An antibiotic won't help the skin condition unless it's bacterial which it's most likely not. It's not very common in cats. However, if the kitty has wounds that are getting infected an antibiotic may be beneficial. You can't use any antibiotic, though. Different antibiotics are used for different things and some can cause additional problems. But if she appears to have an infection she can be given amoxicillin which is a broad antibiotic that works for several different things and is fairly safe. It's also safe for nursing moms.

Of course, it's also super important that mom eats cat food and enough of it. She needs the nutrients. I would NOT give her the multivitamin unless it's made for cats. If it's for humans it can cause real damage. If they make the kitten glop they can also give that to mom.

I know many service men and women has helped Iraqi cats and dogs so I would assume that someone there knows where you can find a vet. That would of course be your best bet. It would also be good if they can get the medicated shampoo quicker than you can get it to them. It may be available there under a different name so your friend may want to look for something with the same ingredients.

Good luck and please keep us updated.

ok so above are the photos I got of the cat and one of her kitties. I also scheduled a call with them tomorrow evening (around this time) to discuss what they can do in details. 

I did look online for some possible vets and pet shops (not many options im afraid). The thing is that they can't really go out in the city. I also contacted a friend in the better part of the country to see if pet medicine can be found there and express-mailed within the country. 

The kitten looks to me like 3 or 4 weeks old, which is not too difficult to bottle feed.  I also assume she/he should be able to start nibling on some pate (if found! I will find out tomorrow).... as a worse worse case scenario, is fresh yogurt ok? and tuna? 

Thanks a lot @Ziggy'smom  for the advice I will not it down and let them know. The amoxicilin and shampoo combination sounds like it is doable. No experience with ivermectin?  ( @catwoman707)

I doubt it is mange or allergy... it looks to me like some fungal infection?.... i am no expert though...

OH she is just so pretty and I am so sorry to hear of her skin condition. I was also going to suggest looking into Malasab shampoo. http://www.answerbag.com/q_view/1922764 But, I wonder if the cat would allow a bathe? And, if it is safe to use while she is nursing kittens. I do think it needs to be treated and quickly, though.

I very well could be mange too. Revolution topical given three weeks apart will cure any mange/mite infection. It is extremely effective. Again, not sure if it would be safe to use on mom with kittens. catwoman707 will probably know about that. :nod:

Mega, mega vibes for momma and her kittens. I am glad that you have such a wonderful friend looking after them.

What a pretty kitty! It's not as bad as I thought. I agree, it does look like a fungal infection, i.e., ringworm, which is usually treated with Malaseb. According to what I can find Malaseb is okay to use on nursing moms but the kittens have to be kept away from the mom until she's dry. You should also wipe the teats off with a wet washcloth. You could also use Lime Sulfur dip which is also safe for nursing cats. You just have to wipe the teats off after the dip. Both Malaseb and Lime Sulfur Dip works for both ringworm and mange (mange and scabies is the same thing).

Ivermectin works for mange but does nothing for ringworm. Since you don't know for sure if this is caused by a fungus or a parasite I would use something that treats both, not ivermectin.

It is difficult to treat a cat with shampoo so for that reason lime dip may be better. It stinks pretty bad though and may stain the fur but for some cats it's much easier to use. There are some good videos on Youtube that shows how to do a dip properly.

Since it doesn't look like the kitty has any  infected wounds I would NOT use any antibiotic. Antibiotics could make things worse.

The kitten does look to be about 3 week and in that case they may be able to eat some solid food. I would not give them yogurt if it's made from cow's milk. The lactose in it could cause diarrhea. There probably wouldn't be any nutritional benefit either. Tuna may be slightly better.

Mom isn't as bad as I thought and considering that her problem is only on her back there shouldn't be a problem with them nursing. What does mom eat?

@djoe  mange in cat is quite rare, but it does look to be a mild case of mange, although mostly it is seen on the face and neck, ears, rather than body and not the face at all.

It does not look like ringworm or lice at all.

Sulfer lime dips with ivermectin works, but not so easy to do. Not only does it stink to high heaven, the cat will really resist doing this to her repeatedly.

As @Feralvr  said, revolution is the way to go.

I would treat her this way, and once the kids are a bit bigger and are able to treat with revolution, treat them as well.

Mange is alot like lice, in the way that it is rarely seen and only will be found in malnourished cats who's immune system is not strong due to any reason but usually from lack of decent and consistent food.

The kittens look about 4 weeks old. Mom's aggression is likely due to her going into heat again, they get rougher with the kids, like she doesn't want to be bothered by them while she is preoccupied with her heat cycle. Also commonly seen.

She needs to be spayed!

Thank you all for all the suggestions, which I will compile and send to my colleagues in Baghdad. I also googled pet shops and vets and sent them whatever I could find. the next step will be to identify the possibilities with them, and see what are the options available. I will get back to you with the info on what is available and see how that evolves into a solution for these cats. 

I respectfully disagree with Catwoman that it doesn't look like ringworm. I think it looks very much like ringworm. In fact it looks very similar to the ringworm my own cat had a couple of months ago, also on her back. Since you don't know for sure what it is I still think a treatment that works for both would be better. Or try Revolution first and see what happens.

Lime Dips does stink. It smells like rotten eggs but I think it's bearable. And it isn't easy to dip or bathe a cat but it's not that difficult either although it helps if you have another person to help you. You don't have to actually dip the cat. Instead you can put the solution in a spray bottle and spray the cat until she's soaked (the point is to make sure it all gets to the skin). If you do go with a topical treatment it helps to shave the affected area. It looks funky for a while but it grows back.  If you use Lime Dip you don't need ivermectin too.

If you are sure it's mange then Revolution is of course a much easier and better treatment and much less stressful for the cat. It will also treat other things the cat may have like fleas and ear mites. It requires a prescription in the US but I've heard that you can get it online without a prescription.

According to the box Revolution should not be used for kittens younger than 8 weeks but the vet at a TNR organization I used to work with would use it for kittens as young as 4 weeks if it was really needed.

As Catwoman mentioned this cat should really be spayed asap if possible. If not please tell your friend to keep her inside so she can't go find herself a boyfriend.

Will a combination of revolution and ivermectin be needed/useful?  

I am reading that Ivermectin has such horrible side effects ?!?!

Well it IS infact a poison.

I use Ivermectin mixed with baby oil for earmites.

I don't know if I would use both at the same time - the Revolution and the Ivermectin. I mean, they both do the same thing, right?? :dk:

Colloidal Silver is also something you can use IF it were to turn out to be a ringworm. It would need to be applied to any lesion looking sores 4 times a day. Either way, the CS will help tremendously to soothe and heal those sores. I would suggest they have a vet do a skin scraping, if possible. Check for mites/mange and send out for ringworm culture as well. You never know.

She does need to be spayed as well - right away, if possible. She will soon be pregnant again. :shame: I hope your friends can get her to a vet for an exam and spaying soon. :cross:

Yes, I second that, if the plan is Revolution, you would not want to add additional poisons to her system, revolution should be all she needs, but repeatedly dosed.

Okay, i sent them all the information today. They will hopefully let me know by tomorrow what the plan really is. It will all depend on what is possible for them to do, giving where they are and the movement restrictions they had. Will get back with the info on the possibilities as soon as i get them

Let me get this one straight though, Ivermictin would treat ringworm but revolution would not?    and they would both treat mange. 

djoe said:

Let me get this one straight though, Ivermictin would treat ringworm but revolution would not?    and they would both treat mange. 

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I don't think Ivermectin treats ringworm.... :scratch: Ivermectin would treat mange, mites and parasites. Revolution would be the way to go, I think. Just make sure you place the drops on the back of the skull and not down on the back of the neck. Most cats can lick it right off. Kitties heads are extremely flexible. :lol3:

and what is it that treats ringworm? 

Ok - Ivermectin does not have any properties to kill a fungal ringworm infection because ivermectin is specifically an anti-parasitic. Ringworm must be treated with an antifungal cream or oral medications given by the vet only.

This article has the list of all of the medications to treat ringworm. http://www.showcatsonline.com/x/ringworm_battle_plan.shtml I once had two foster kittens with ringworm, years ago. Treated them with the Griseofulvin oral and a 20:1 bleach dip. YIKES. I don't think that is recommended anymore - the bleach dip. This was 25 years ago. The Lyme sulfur dip is more used.

FIRST - the kitty needs a skin scraping and the results need to be sent in for culturing which can take 7 days to grow.

Hope this helps.