20% kidney function, high liver, high side thyroid

16-year-old Cocheesie (17 in August). Inoperable tumour on or near liver (no noticed increase in size). Constipation now completely under control.

Vet called (I trust this guy). Blood work and urinalysis back.

20% kidney function

liver values very high

thyroid on "the high side."

not producing enough red blood cells - anemic

Nothing wrong with ears - just old-age.

Vet very impressed that she's so well, considering what's going on inside the old girl.

Going to vet now to get sub-q (cat version of dialysis), b12, lab report, and a couple of foods to try. Don't now what else, husband took the phone call.

Lots of work ahead of us. Will probably have all sorts of questions for the lovely folks on this forum. Will post lab results later this afternoon.

cocheezie said:

 
16-year-old Cocheesie (17 in August). Inoperable tumour on or near liver (no noticed increase in size). Constipation now completely under control.

Vet called (I trust this guy). Blood work and urinalysis back.

20% kidney function

liver values very high

thyroid on "the high side."

not producing enough red blood cells - anemic

Nothing wrong with ears - just old-age.

Vet very impressed that she's so well, considering what's going on inside the old girl.

Going to vet now to get sub-q (cat version of dialysis), b12, lab report, and a couple of foods to try. Don't now what else, husband took the phone call.

Lots of work ahead of us. Will probably have all sorts of questions for the lovely folks on this forum. Will post lab results later this afternoon.

Click to expand...

 l'm glad she's feeling so well in spite of the list.

Sending positive vibes!

Lab results

Biochemistry:                           Hematology

Glucose  6.8 mmmol/L             WBC   11.9

Kidney:                                     RBC   6.0

Ureas (bun)  27.4                    Hemoglobin   84

Creatinine  33.8                       Hemacrit    0.23

Phosphorus    2.2                    MCV    39

                                                 MCH    14

Calcium    2.70                         MCHC    372

Sodium   153                            Platelets    449

Potassium   4.7                        % Reticulocyte   .03

Na/K Raio   33                          Reticulocyte    18

Chloride   112

Total Protein   76 g/L                Differential:

Albumin   30                             Bands               0%    abs. 0

Globulin   46                             Neutrophils     62%        abs.   7.4

A/G Ratiko   0.7                        Monocytes     28.6%    abs. 0.3

                                                 Eosinophils     5.9%     abs. .07

Liver:                                        Basophils 0

ALT   609

ALP   369

Morphology

RCB: anemia   moderate

Polychromasia    rare

Well, it doesn't look good on paper, but Cocheesie is having some of the best days she's had in months. She's jumping aprox 3 feet from the bed to the window and back with ease, showing a huge interest in the outside world. She's jumping over the end of the bed to the chest where her water and food are, and where there is a cozy blanket for sleeping. She's demanding and thoroughly morning pets, mid-morning pets, brushing, and so on. Her weight when the constipation problems started was 6.7 pounds. She lost a lot of weight (down to 5.8 pounds and then some), but we've managed to regain most of it. Her current weight is 6.3 pounds. She's having one bowel movement a day with ease, and generally three small pees. (We only took her in because her water intake had increased slightly.) Went for a leashed walk last night in the dark. She marked her telephone poles and had a good sniff, then went further up the street than she ever has before.

Food: She lost her appetite and too much weight with the constipation. We spent well over $100 on wet food trying to find something that she would eat. She's been eating a selection of Wild Calling Duck, Merrick Thanksgiving Dinner, and FF cod, sole, shrimp. All three have to be on the plate. She's a grazer who eats frequently and a lot. She complains like crazy unless she has a selection. And it has to be pate. She won't eat any other kind of wet food. She has never touched and will not touch human cooked or raw food. Not even tuna. She hasn't touched dry food since the constipation episode. Has even declined treats.

The vet suggested Royal Canin Senior Consult wet (which, according to the vet tech) has ingredients that support the kidneys.

Treatment:

100 ml sub-q fliud 3x a week (tech said every 2nd day is even better)

Rx Vitamins for Pets. 1 ml bid. Contains an amino acid glen, panothenic acid, niacin amid, spirulina, potassium chloride, b-1, b-2, b-6, iron, b-12 (in cyanocobalamin form ????)

She is also on cisapride bid (IMO to help get food past the tumour which has moved her organs around), miralax 1/4-1/2 tsp bid, pepcid ac 1/4 tab in the evening. It's always at night when she has stomach acid issues and vomiting. During the constipation event, we were also giving her sub-q.

Obviously, her liver or her kidneys or both are going to take her out. It's only a question of when. If she doesn't like the Senior Consult food, that's fine. We've agreed not to force her to eat something she doesn't like. Personally, I'd rather go out eating chocolate than broccoli.

We were unable to see the vet when we went to the clinic today. He was in emergency surgery. Nothing was prescribed for thyroid or liver. The vet is of the "keep her comfortable" approach and seeing such high numbers, so are we.

From the little reading I've managed to do today, it looks like the bone marrow is involved, hence the anemia.

Sorry it's such a long post. She's howling at me for another petting session. Any thoughts, questions, suggestions appreciated.

Edit: have been educating myself at Tanya's site.

Anyone had any experience using B-complex liquid instead of water for mixing miralax? I'm trying to think of ways of cutting down the number of times I shove meds down my Cocheezie's throat. She won't touch any food that has been medically adulterated and even if I could hide it successfully, she always leaves a bit on her plate, meaning she may or may not get a full dose. I've tried dissolving the cisapride in the miralax in the past, but that particular combination comes straight back up about 20 minutes later.

It's isn't something that I have tried.  I know Miralax is very 'forgiving' for lack of a better word.  I don't think there would be any harm in trying it and seeing what happens.

Gave this combination about 20 minutes ago. She was none too happy but would have been even less happy if it was separated into two syringes. So far so good. It hasn't come back up and she's sitting in front of her food bowl meowing. Pretty she's telling me off for not putting enough duck in the bowl.

Is there anything out there to treat anemia that does not contain B 12? Cocheezie is still doing fantastic, but I feel like I'm in a double bind by giving her a B 12 supplement. B 12, while good for treating anemia, also feeds cancer cells. We've been using Rx Vitamins Amino B-Plex. Theoretically, it's a feel better for a shorter amount of time situation if treated with B 12. I go back and forth about it in my head every time I give her the stuff. If there's a supplement that works just as well ...

cocheezie said:

 
Gave this combination about 20 minutes ago. She was none too happy but would have been even less happy if it was separated into two syringes. So far so good. It hasn't come back up and she's sitting in front of her food bowl meowing. Pretty she's telling me off for not putting enough duck in the bowl.

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Cocheezie sounds like trooper. I do believe she may be voicing her objections to the "restaurant cat service" she is getting, but may be she just said a loud "what else is on the menu?". 

My cat Spotty also has an annoying habit of walking away, and then returning after 3 minutes to his bowl. 

He must be giving me his opinions as well.

cocheezie said:

 
Is there anything out there to treat anemia that does not contain B 12? Cocheezie is still doing fantastic, but I feel like I'm in a double bind by giving her a B 12 supplement. B 12, while good for treating anemia, also feeds cancer cells. We've been using Rx Vitamins Amino B-Plex. Theoretically, it's a feel better for a shorter amount of time situation if treated with B 12. I go back and forth about it in my head every time I give her the stuff. If there's a supplement that works just as well ...

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I am very curious  to learn more about vitamin B12 and cancer cells.

  My 89 year old aunt gets B12 shots, monthly, and had intestinal, thyroid and lymph node cancer tumours removed.  She is doing fine, considering her age and other health issues.

If there is a negative correlation, then it would be beneficial to know. 

Did you read about this "B12 feeding cancer cells"....online?

And thanks for posting this thread, I hope your Cocheezie, stays strong in having to deal with the lymphoma.

I saw your avatar pic, but I think I read that cocheezie is a black cat?  Are there any pics of her? What is your second cat's name?

It may be wiser not to give Vitamin B12 to a cat with cancer because cancer cells rely on Vitamin B12 for growth. If you are dealing with lymphoma, however, the University of Penn School of Veterinary Medicine  is researching whether cats with lymphoma have a Vitamin B12 deficiency (which is quite possible, because lymphoma may reduce Vitamin B12 absorption in the intestines), and if they do, they plan to offer supplemental treatment to address the deficiency.  

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 However, there are also sites that say B 12 is beneficial, esp. for the anemia side of cancer. I'm coming to the position that you can't fight the cancer but you can fight the anemia and make the cat feel better over the short term.

I've been trying to take a picture but it's hard because of all the blackness to get a good picture. And my scanner is down so I can't load a youthful picture. Second cat (pictured in avatar) is a BIG brown tabby with a number of Maine Coon characteristics and the longest whiskers I've ever seen. But at 16 pounds he's too small, and having been born in small town dumpster makes Maine Coon highly unlikely. He will be 15 July 1st. He's the diabetic one. He was named Rover because his original owners wanted a dog but couldn't have one.

cocheezie said:

 

It may be wiser not to give Vitamin B12 to a cat with cancer because cancer cells rely on Vitamin B12 for growth. If you are dealing with lymphoma, however, the University of Penn School of Veterinary Medicine  is researching whether cats with lymphoma have a Vitamin B12 deficiency (which is quite possible, because lymphoma may reduce Vitamin B12 absorption in the intestines), and if they do, they plan to offer supplemental treatment to address the deficiency.  

Click to expand...

 However, there are also sites that say B 12 is beneficial, esp. for the anemia side of cancer. I'm coming to the position that you can't fight the cancer but you can fight the anemia and make the cat feel better over the short term.

I've been trying to take a picture but it's hard because of all the blackness to get a good picture. And my scanner is down so I can't load a youthful picture. Second cat (pictured in avatar) is a BIG brown tabby with a number of Maine Coon characteristics and the longest whiskers I've ever seen. But at 16 pounds he's too small, and having been born in small town dumpster makes Maine Coon highly unlikely. He will be 15 July 1st. He's the diabetic one. He was named Rover because his original owners wanted a dog but couldn't have one.

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Wow....doing all that stuff in one day, does not sound any different to any cat. (Except mine does not nap on me....so I am jealous....lol)

thanks for posting that link and that info.

  Yes, I do agree that there must be something to these relationships to B12 but read another article which said if was inconclusive, so I have to read more.  This was not on cats though.  http://www.dsm.com/campaigns/talkin...013/11/vitamin_B12_cobalamin_cancer_risk.html

Interesting that they recommend not to give B12, to perhaps slow down the cancer cell growth, but then mention a deficiency being noticed in lymphoma cats.

I agree with you, treating the anemia would definitely be the priority,  but slowing down the cancer growth somehow would be beneficial also.  I hope that one day, the meds they come up with could be more specific in its treatment, but that would be a long way off.

Rover is such a cool name for a cat, but he looks too fluffy for a Rover, unless he likes to walk a lot.

Thanks for the link. Double binds are never easy.

Yes, and I forgot to ask.  Is Cocheezie taking an iron tincture, or supplement?  for the anemia?

Not at the moment. Her RBC count right at the bottom end of normal range. I've been looking at a few online and plan to ask about it at the next vet visit. I have to go in this coming week for another bag of sub-q.

Okay, thanks.  I was looking at the bloodwork, and just wondering about the numbers.  For the liver my one vet had given me a supplement called Zentonil Plus.  It has SAMe and milk thistle.  The thing is, she didn't know if it could help or not.

The problem is that you don't want to put too much on board, either, because it might be too much for the liver and kidneys to process.

  (I hate catch 22's....in deciding what is best)

Cocheezie is eating well (I'd estimate 8-10 ounces of wet per day) which makes me leery about adding an iron supplement at the moment.

cat nap said:

 
Yes, and I forgot to ask.  Is Cocheezie taking an iron tincture, or supplement?  for the anemia?

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Oops. Looked closely at the amino b-pled tincture this morning. In teeny tiny letters, it does say that it contains iron.

I wonder how much iron you can get from sheep or poultry liver, and if a cat would eat it? 

And Iron does cause constipation in humans, so don't know how it affects a cat.

Its good that Cocheezie is eating, so she is still getting nutrients from there.

Can I ask what you first noticed in Cocheezie, that had you concerned?

  Was she limping, not eating? 

    or lethargic? 

      I mean looking back, what were the first signs...you think?

cat nap said:

 
I wonder how much iron you can get from sheep or poultry liver, and if a cat would eat it? 

And Iron does cause constipation in humans, so don't know how it affects a cat.

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There's an iron chart here for small amounts of cooked human food (scroll down to the meat section): http://www.dietitians.ca/Nutrition-Resources-A-Z/Factsheets/Minerals/Food-Sources-of-Iron.aspx

Can I ask what you first noticed in Cocheezie, that had you concerned?

  Was she limping, not eating? 

    or lethargic? 

      I mean looking back, what were the first signs...you think?

Click to expand...

There were no signs. We found out when we took her to the ER vet for sudden onset severe constipation and 2 x-rays were taken. The tumour was very noticeable. Whether the constipation is old-age related or is caused  because the tumour has squished her internal organs, we don't know for sure. I'm thinking "squished" because I tried 3 times to slowly wean her off cisapride and mirlax, and each time the constipation and related vomiting came back with a vengeance.

Hope this is helpful.

Thank you,@cocheezie the chart is extremely helpful.  I did not know that cooked pork liver and also cooked octopus, were that high.

Thanks for the other info, too.

A previous dog I owned also seemed to suddenly develop cancer, but the ER vet suspected his was in the liver.  The only thing I noticed in hindsight was weight loss.  (actually my friend noticed it, I just attributed the weight loss to the dog being 11yrs old.)  We didn' t do any biopsies, but only bloodwork.  It was fast and sudden.

So I just wondered if cats show any signs.  I guess like people, sometimes you just catch it by surprise.