Vets Don't Know What's Going On

stephenq · Apr 25, 2014

@missbliss

I just read your long reply in post #13, thanks to @AbbysMom and I agree a consultation with Cornell may not add much, it seems you have done a great deal. The pupil size issue is interesting as that supports a neurological cause. I am going to link this thread to a member who is also a vet and maybe he will have some insights.

Just a funny question. If you give her all the food she wants in a meal, does she reach a point of being "satisfied" and how long does that last?

missbliss · Apr 25, 2014

missbliss · Apr 25, 2014

StephenQ said:
@missbliss

I just read your long reply in post #13, thanks to @AbbysMom and I agree a consultation with Cornell may not add much, it seems you have done a great deal. The pupil size issue is interesting as that supports a neurological cause. I am going to link this thread to a member who is also a vet and maybe @Dr Kris will have some insights.

Just a funny question. If you give her all the food she wants in a meal, does she reach a point of being "satisfied" and how long does that last?

stephenq · Apr 25, 2014

missbliss said:

Wow. I'm speechless. No idea it was this often.

dr kris · Apr 25, 2014

Joy,

What a journey you have been through.

Your findings had me scratching my head for a while. A good while. I had to reach WAAAY back into my graduate school days to think of something that would fit what you are describing and the myraid of frustrating negative results. Joy, I if was ever sick, I would want you on my side.

In graduate school, some of my research revealed that all vertebrate animals may have the potential to show Parkinson like symptoms. Because it effects brain structures that are very well conserved over evolution.

Parkinson's.

I would maybe start there.

k

quiet · Apr 26, 2014

Hi;

Have they ever checked her blood pressure that you can remember? She can see right? Can she hear? How is her balance? Sorry for all the questions, I am just throwing some things out there to see if anything happens to lead to something. I hope she is feeling better. Oh, have they ever done a cobalamine test? I may have the spelling wrong.

goholistic · Apr 26, 2014

Unfortunately, not all symptoms will always point to one condition. Senior cats, especially, can have multiple things going on at the same time. In some respects, I am going through something similar with my Boo (also 14 years old). I've tried to read through all your posts, and it's helpful to me to put things in a list, so here's my attempt to do this for your cat.

Symptoms

shaking head, chronic otitis, scratching, tremors, startling, increased appetite, increased defecation, some weight loss/possible muscle wasting, mouth rubbing, FORLs/calcium buildup

Tests performed/conditions ruled out

blood (some indication of allergy with basophils), urinalysis, thyroid, CT of abdomen, x-ray of head, blood pressure, diabetes, toxoplasmosis, giardia, kidney, liver, neuro

Can you describe the tremors? Are they like twitches or trembling? Are they all over or mainly in the face and/or limbs?

Chronic ear infections and scratching around the head and neck can be strong indications of a food allergy. She could be shaking her head because of the chronic otitis. Regarding the basophils found in her blood work: "Eosinophils and basophils are increased in pets with allergic diseases, or parasitic infections (worms, fleas, etc.)." (Source) Also, does she have chin acne?

FORLs are not uncommon and her teeth issues alone could be the cause of her mouth rubbing. The thing that stumps me is the increased appetite. If she's eating a lot, then the defecation is not surprising. What goes in, must come out. Just within the last year or two, Boo will poo right after eating, or even during eating (he'll leave in the middle of eating, go poo, and come back and finish). I've just accepted it as an old age thing.

Cushing's Disease can cause an increased appetite, but the rest of the symptoms don't fit. Problems with the pancreas (exocrine pancreatic insufficiency) can also cause an increased appetite, but again, the rest of symptoms don't fit.

In fact, Boo has a lot of the same symptoms your cat does, except he doesn't startle and has a decreased appetite. We've been through the whole gamut of tests. We're all out of ideas, and his comfort and quality of life is what's important to me. So, we put him on a medication that addresses both a possible neurological issue and general pain (he also has arthritis and intervertebral disc disease). The reason I asked about the tremors specifically is because Boo would get these episodes of facial twitching and body trembling, sometimes accompanied by an increased breathing rate. At first I thought it was some kind of mild seizure. My vet is sure it is because of pain, but we still cannot pinpoint it's origin. The medication has really helped.

ETA: I wanted to add that, most recently, Boo has had a recurring ear infection and marked increase of scratching around his face and neck, so I am trying him on a novel protein diet (again). He's not happy about it because he's not getting the Fancy Feast that he likes.

cprcheetah · Apr 26, 2014

I have a cat who has facial tremors, we have determined it is idiopathic (no known cause) in nature and probably a form of epileptic seizures (not full on seizures). The vets recommended Phenobarbital however we dont' want to go that route due to side effects of the drug so we just let it be. I have cats that would eat 24/7 if I let them (I feed on a timed basis), some cats are just naturally hunger mongers I have determined, I know my cat Munchie is, he would eat himself sick if I let him. He LOVES food and ALWAYS acts like it is his first meal in days. He was overweight but with feeding restrictions I have gotten him down to a normal limit. There are neurological issues such as suggested above like forms of kitty parkinsons that cats can get. You could try something like an anti-seizure drug and see if that helps. GO Holistic has posted some great information and things to think about.

missbliss · Apr 26, 2014

Dr Kris said:
Joy,

What a journey you have been through.

Your findings had me scratching my head for a while. A good while. I had to reach WAAAY back into my graduate school days to think of something that would fit what you are describing and the myraid of frustrating negative results. Joy, I if was ever sick, I would want you on my side.

In graduate school, some of my research revealed that all vertebrate animals may have the potential to show Parkinson like symptoms. Because it effects brain structures that are very well conserved over evolution.

Parkinson's.

I would maybe start there.

k

missbliss · Apr 26, 2014

cprcheetah said:
I have a cat who has facial tremors, we have determined it is idiopathic (no known cause) in nature and probably a form of epileptic seizures (not full on seizures). The vets recommended Phenobarbital however we dont' want to go that route due to side effects of the drug so we just let it be. I have cats that would eat 24/7 if I let them (I feed on a timed basis), some cats are just naturally hunger mongers I have determined, I know my cat Munchie is, he would eat himself sick if I let him. He LOVES food and ALWAYS acts like it is his first meal in days. He was overweight but with feeding restrictions I have gotten him down to a normal limit. There are neurological issues such as suggested above like forms of kitty parkinsons that cats can get. You could try something like an anti-seizure drug and see if that helps. GO Holistic has posted some great information and things to think about.

missbliss · Apr 27, 2014

GoHolistic said:
Can you describe the tremors? Are they like twitches or trembling? Are they all over or mainly in the face and/or limbs?

It's a startle that develops into a serious of jerks. In the face (her eyes shut), then it travels rapidly down the front to her chest down to her front 2 feet.

Chronic ear infections and scratching around the head and neck can be strong indications of a food allergy. She could be shaking her head because of the chronic otitis. Regarding the basophils found in her blood work: "Eosinophils and basophils are increased in pets with allergic diseases, or parasitic infections (worms, fleas, etc.)." (Source) Also, does she have chin acne?

Yes - She does have chin acne - and has had for a few months (!) tried to heal it - there is one bump that will not move (looked under her tongue and in her mouth - all is ok. Had the vet look at it - he said *plastic dishes* - she eats out of either stainless or china. Yes, allergens. 100%. I concur. This has been the bane of our existence for too long. Her skin is also now itchy/ier. I could get her tested with nosodes. Aware of this. Considering it.

FORLs are not uncommon and her teeth issues alone could be the cause of her mouth rubbing. The thing that stumps me is the increased appetite. If she's eating a lot, then the defecation is not surprising. What goes in, must come out. Just within the last year or two, Boo will poo right after eating, or even during eating (he'll leave in the middle of eating, go poo, and come back and finish). I've just accepted it as an old age thing.

Cushing's Disease can cause an increased appetite, but the rest of the symptoms don't fit. Problems with the pancreas (exocrine pancreatic insufficiency) can also cause an increased appetite, but again, the rest of symptoms don't fit.

Cushing's was ruled out at the time when she had the x-ray done. Also the skin tears are not a symptom. I'm chalking the mouth rubbing to something going on her mouth - and the tremors and appetite due to malabsorption/enzymatic deficiency. Let me post her last liver results in a bit. They were done a few months back - the most recent blood tests were only panels - not including liver. There was an indication of abnormality. No one gave us direction and it was just left untreated. So will bbl with the numbers.

Best wishes to you and Boo,

Joy

missbliss · Apr 27, 2014

Quiet said:
Hi;

Have they ever checked her blood pressure that you can remember? She can see right? Can she hear? How is her balance? Sorry for all the questions, I am just throwing some things out there to see if anything happens to lead to something. I hope she is feeling better. Oh, have they ever done a cobalamine test? I may have the spelling wrong.

goholistic · Apr 27, 2014

missbliss said:
GoHolistic said:

Can you describe the tremors? Are they like twitches or trembling? Are they all over or mainly in the face and/or limbs?

It's a startle that develops into a serious of jerks. In the face (her eyes shut), then it travels rapidly down the front to her chest down to her front 2 feet.

Chronic ear infections and scratching around the head and neck can be strong indications of a food allergy. She could be shaking her head because of the chronic otitis. Regarding the basophils found in her blood work: "Eosinophils and basophils are increased in pets with allergic diseases, or parasitic infections (worms, fleas, etc.)." (Source) Also, does she have chin acne?

Yes - She does have chin acne - and has had for a few months (!) tried to heal it - there is one bump that will not move (looked under her tongue and in her mouth - all is ok. Had the vet look at it - he said *plastic dishes* - she eats out of either stainless or china. Yes, allergens. 100%. I concur. This has been the bane of our existence for too long. Her skin is also now itchy/ier. I could get her tested with nosodes. Aware of this. Considering it.

FORLs are not uncommon and her teeth issues alone could be the cause of her mouth rubbing. The thing that stumps me is the increased appetite. If she's eating a lot, then the defecation is not surprising. What goes in, must come out. Just within the last year or two, Boo will poo right after eating, or even during eating (he'll leave in the middle of eating, go poo, and come back and finish). I've just accepted it as an old age thing.

Cushing's Disease can cause an increased appetite, but the rest of the symptoms don't fit. Problems with the pancreas (exocrine pancreatic insufficiency) can also cause an increased appetite, but again, the rest of symptoms don't fit.

Cushing's was ruled out at the time when she had the x-ray done. Also the skin tears are not a symptom. I'm chalking the mouth rubbing to something going on her mouth - and the tremors and appetite due to malabsorption/enzymatic deficiency. Let me post her last liver results in a bit. They were done a few months back - the most recent blood tests were only panels - not including liver. There was an indication of abnormality. No one gave us direction and it was just left untreated. So will bbl with the numbers.

Best wishes to you and Boo,

Joy

Click to expand...

Oh, okay. Interesting about the chin acne. I asked because chin acne can also be a symptom of an allergy. With a few of her symptoms possibly pointing to a food allergy, could you try to put her on a novel protein diet for a trial period (usually 6-8 weeks)?

If you suspect that she has a malabsorption/enzyme problem, you could try a few harmless things now to address this. An omega-3 fish oil supplement, vitamin B12 injections (must obtain from vet), probiotics (including saccharomyces boulardii), and digestive enzymes, such as Prozyme or Fresh Digest (aka Optagest), could really help in this regard.

And, yes, if there is an abnormality of her liver, this could be a factor.

Vets Don't Know What's Going On

stephenq

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missbliss

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stephenq

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dr kris

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cprcheetah

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missbliss

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