Help me help these kittens I found!

Hi all, 

some of you remember me from the threads about three orphaned kittens i fostered last summer, Qays, Gebran and Cynthia. Thanks to your help, we managed to nurse them to life, and give them a healthy and beautiful second chance after their momma died.

It seems it is my fate to run into orphaned kittens in urgent need of help!!!  I just moved to a new country for work (this time it is Jordan) and i stumbled upon a poor family of 2 twin brothers who care for ferals and strays.

Here is the story, I was having a smoothie on a rooftop of a cafe and enjoying my afternoon as i saw what seemed to me like a 3 legged cat trying to jump to the garbage container to fetch for some food...if knew even if i tried to approach, the cat would run away.  2 hours later, I was going to my car and I see that very same cat sitting under my car!!!!!!  she/he is not 3 legged, but has a swollen arm and is thus limping. I tried to approach her/him but the fluffy cuty ran away. I promised I would return the with a friendly trap.... while trying to catch fluffy, a man shows up and asks what I needed, and I explained. he hurried to show me the rest of the colony and to promise me he will help fluffy like he helped all the others... then another shows up - the are twins - and they insisted i enter and say hi to all the cats... 

they told me that they found a nursing moma cat dead in the street. Together we looked for some lonely kitties missing their mom, and we found 2. very skinny little kitties, probably a week or 10 days old max. We took them in to an already nursing cat (probably in their late second or early third week) that the twin brothers are ofc caring for.   She luckily accepted them...

 I hope I was not too late, I went there today with a tuna-trap to catch fluffy and take him/her to the vet, spent all afternoon waiting, but fluffy did not show up ;(    

I checked on the orphans, only to find that they are extremely skinny, One of them is really really skinny as if she/he is not growing! and the problem, one his eyes is swollen and closed with some brownish pus on it.   and the other one is open. 

The twin brothers are thinking of maybe giving them a bit of penisilin, just a tiny little drop. But I am not sure this is a good option for such a small kitty.  I don't know what the problem is with the eye.... Herpes? Infection?  My wild guess is that it is due to a weak immune system after being separated form their mom.

I have a multivitamin tube for cats and kittens.,, will that help???    The vets are hesitant to deal with such young kittens because "they don't respond to treatment".

Most of these cats in that colony have "eye infections" and I would be surprised if that would be a coincidence. 

Another one of these kittens also has some sort of excess pus on her eye but at least the eye is open. 

Among the bigger cats, several have a shade of bluish white on their one of their eye... and one of them was even operated at the vet for "eye infection"

I can get your advice on how to care for the rest of them at a later stage but for now I want to make sure these 2 little orphans don't fade and die...specially the one with the eye problem....  They are reportedly both nursing as the queen cat adopted them.
I know you car barely see anything, but it was very dark in the garden where they are I couldnt get a better photo

PLEASE ADVICE!!!

Re the eyes problem, @Catwoman707 is probably the most experienced of us with it...   She knows some practical short cuts.

But as I understand, you DO have access to a vet?  Perhaps not very knowleable, but if you ask for a specific medicine or treatment, he should be able to help with that?

OK, re the feeding problem.  One possible variation is, its the mom who doenst has enough with milk.   Mom having first rate cat food, do seldom need extra supplements, perhaps when the kittens are becoming big and they are several.

But here, who says the mom gets first rate food?   If the caretakers are poor, and they have costs for vet, the risk is she gets what they can give and not much more...

In Jordania I suppose you can get goat milk?   Goat milk is useful both for mom and for kittens.   Fresh mlk is most efficient, but bottled is OK too.

If you dont have problems with salomonella in eggs, raw egg yolk is useful.  Perhaps blend with this goat milk, or with something else...

If you DO have problems with salomonella, boiled yellow is also OK, but not so easy to access all the nourishments.

Minced meat.

Plain full fat yoghurt - I presume you have plenty of youghurt there?

Melt in some butter with her food.

Some olive oil  could be good too.  Contains vitamine E if nothing else.  But butter is better as fat source

So, helping the mom cant be wrong.  Question is if you can and should supplement the kiten too with this goat milk.     You know how to give?

Its not difficult, but giving in wrong postion may be dangerous for them.

Good luck!.

First of all I'm so glad you are a caring person who is trying to help!!

Eye infections are quite common in outdoor born kittens, I'd say the majority do have this, I know all mine do that come during kitten season.

The best and fastest treatment is applying terramycin ointment twice a day, it won't take more than a couple day, and will show improvement after the first time even. GREAT stuff!!

Terramycin used to be sold on ebay but recently has stopped.

I don't know what is available to you there but it's pretty easy and no prescription needed.

There are some substitutes available from vets but not quite as good as terramycin. They are basically antibacterial ointments that can be used on any age kitten/cat.

When you do find some ointment, be sure to use a very wet/warm cloth to soak over the eye to loosen the crust so the eye will open, never pry or force it open as this can cause serious damage.

You will hold baby by the scruff and turn on her back facing you, squeeze a line out of ointment in the inner corners of both eyes, set the tube down and swipe it into and along the eye, having the eye just cracked open a bit since you want it inside where the infection is but don't want to swipe your finger along their entire eyeball either. The vet will show you I'm sure.

As for skinny? This is a big thing, the nursing mom has older kittens who will surely be bumping these babies off, so that they are not nursing anywhere near enough.

Unless you are or have access to an experienced bottle feeder, I suggest a rotation.

Her kittens be taken out and put in a warmed box while the 2 orphans are allowed to nurse for a good 2 hours. The others will be just fine.

If this can be done, as often as possible in the beginning to get these kids back to being stronger and gain some weight.

As StefanZ said, it's also a good idea that mom gets decent food, always lots of fresh water to produce plenty of milk too.

I believe those babies being smaller is the cause though, very common. Kittens have their favorite nursing spot by the time they are a week old, and usually nurse on that same one through until weaned. Guaranteed those babies being less than half of their age is what's going on here.

Good luck!!

I meant to say, I can see the baby good enough to see he looks identical to 2 babies I had last year, skinny, scrawny, and they ARE savable! Just undernourished, but needs help asap. See if you can get them rotated asap

One more thing to add, the injured legged cat is likely a male and not neutered so males continuously fight, which bites cause abcesses, they will usually burst on their own, drain and heal. So it's a matter of time for that one and will likely get better on it's own.

How are people about spaying/neutering there?

If it's a poor area I don't imagine much of that goes on, but it sure is the way to get control over the endless litters born!!

Highly likely that colony does carry quite a good eye infection, the white/blue color is scasr tissue, caused by eye infections not getting help and also commonly from males fighting. They go for the eyes and ears first thing in fighting.

Thank you all, I will re-read everything up there after work and make a list and hit the road to the vet and the caretakers..... if worse comes to worse i will bottle feed the 2 little ones. I have done that before with my orphans and it worked brilliantly... but i will try first for the mama cat. 

The twins are 2 great men. we discussed neutering - I am not the first to tell them it seems - they are quite open about neutering females but not males!  still a lot of work to do there. They do have one neutered male, he is obese and they think it is related. 

I am sure with some persistence we can get somewhere. 

Fingers crossed. 

Will keep you posted.

Million thanks, I would definitely not know what to do on my own.

Thank you for helping them djoe. You did such a great job with the last litter of kittens you saved, I remember reading your thread about them.

I don't have any advice to give, I think you're in great hands with Catwoman and StefanZ to help you. I just wanted to say good luck and I hope you have as much success with these little ones as you did with Qays, Gebran and Cynthia.

Okay great cat people,

I just took note of everything. Thank you very much:

2 more questions:

1-the size of the infected eye is huge in comparison - do i need to know anything about that? do i need to do anything? will there be anything coming out of it that i need to expect?

2- the antibiotics that they are using - is that harmful for kittens? do i need to warn them?

 I hope i will find Terramycin!
 

best

The eye infection is filled with pus, and unable to drain out because it is stuck shut. It is draining/filling up around the eye rather than able to drain.

That's not good at all.

It really needs to be softened and opened and the terramycin in there to get started healing it, he risks the chance of losing that eye if it gets too far gone. With his age though, I have high hopes it can be saved if acted asap with treatment.

I don't know what the antibiotic is they are using, penicillin?

It's not that it can't be used and actually if it were me I would be giving an antibiotic for his eye, however I only know the correct dose for clavamox in a baby so young, penicillin I have no idea what the dose would be.....

Don't want to overdo, but needs enough to work too. (??)

I will see if I can find out.

I need to know is this the injectionable penicillin?

Honestly if the eye is able to open and remain open for draining, with the antibiotic ointment applied often and at least 4-5 days AFTER it looks all better to prevent any remaining bacteria from reinfecting, I don't believe he actually needs to take an antibiotic other than the eye ointment, which is critical in making this eye better.

Are these cats in the colony sick with an upper respiratory infection at all, including the babies?

If so, then it's very likely herpevirus, but if not is caused by the mom having a vaginal discharge at the time of birth, staph and strep bacteria are the most commonly seen eye bacterias causing these infections, and are HIGHLY contagious to all cats in the colony.

@catwoman  I really don't know if this is URI. I don't see runny noses.But the majority of the cats have at least one bad eye.  the thing is they got it at different times, and they are in the same place because the twins care mostly for sick cats that can't survive the streets otherwise.

I tried and tried with a cotton napkin and warm water to soften the a bit but there was no luck, i applied the gel on top of it... i think that's useless but that's the only thing I could do, and I told the twins to keep on trying. I will check again tomorrow. I am starting to freak out. I really really really want to save him.

Even worse, I realized that another one of these kitties in a HORRIBLE CONDITION! I might have to take him to the hospital tomorrow and hope they will help... he looks to me like he is paralysed though he is not ... but it is as if he has no nerves!  he is flat down i have never seen a cat in this position both ARMS AND LEGS FLAT TO BACKWARDS and the neck barely holding the head. 

I really don't know what to do!!!!!!!  I tried to bottle feed him but he doesn't swallow so much!  the others do. 

 I should have taken him to the hospital today already but i was hoping some syringe feeding will help.... he did get a bit of energy after some drops and he moved but only a few steps. he is EXTREMELY SKINNY and helpless to the point that the other kittens are SITTING ON him. I don;t understand why is his mom not paying extra care for him.  I have to absolutely take him to the vet tomorrow. right?

uffff the poor lil thing

Oh dear.........yeah he is in bad shape, something more than lack of nursing, which causes dehydration and lack of growth, but wouldn't look like this, he would simply look weak and lethargic, sleeping constantly.

His mom won't take extra care but rather choose to ignore him, as, despite their love for their young, the instincts of the weak/ill kitten means the rest and herself are vulnerable to predators, so she will push him away more than help him, sad I know.

Now is this another sibling to the other pair? Or a different one?

He most definitely needs a vet asap. I don't know about there where you are, but the vets here will only charge for one office visit when you bring in multiple kittens from the same litter. I would take the other one in as well. That eye has got to get opened up.

Does it bulge? Or just seems swollen? Like does it appear through the lids that the eyeball is alot larger than the other one?

Sounds like you did get eye ointment, excellent! Applying it over the top often will help it soften so it can be opened. What kind did you get?

This is the most important, critical thing for saving the eye, getting that eye opened up so it will stop leaking fluid around the eye causing permanent damage, AND to allow the med to get inside there and start working.

I've gotten kittens before plenty who have serious eye infections, and sometimes really have to work a long time to get it soft enough to open up. Warm cloth, saturating the eye and held on as long as possible, wiping then doing it again, over and over to get that crusty goop softened up.

I asked about the uri but you would see other cats with snotty noses or sneezing, it doesn't sound to be this, but the standard bacterial infected eyes that are so common.

As I said, highly contagious to the other residents so this would be why so many have an eye issue.

I checked thebeye more closely today and it seemed like inside it is normal but there is a huge hard lump of dried pus on top of it....so hard I felt I need to cut it to get through! The kitten is toooo tiny for me to even try hard .... you are right nust go ti the vet.


The other dehydrated skinny kitty might not even survive until tomorrow. I will take him to the vet though I am skeptical the vet will do anything.

At this point I dont care whta it will cost me as long as I can save them.

For the eye I got oxycycline. I got them 5 tubes to use for all the cats.pretty cheap actually.
And for nutrition I got them dried kitten formula milk.

I would really want to spend more time there with them to feed and treat but they live about an hour away from where I live, and normally after work I go ti language class.... but I have to figure something out


Do you think I should separate them from the mother and bottle fees them? I woukd be too scared to do that. What if they died here? I would feel like I might have caused it.


It is going to be long long hours until tomorrow afternoon when I take them to the vet....

djoe said:

I checked thebeye more closely today and it seemed like inside it is normal but there is a huge hard lump of dried pus on top of it....so hard I felt I need to cut it to get through! The kitten is toooo tiny for me to even try hard .... you are right nust go ti the vet.


The other dehydrated skinny kitty might not even survive until tomorrow. I will take him to the vet though I am skeptical the vet will do anything.

At this point I dont care whta it will cost me as long as I can save them.

For the eye I got oxycycline. I got them 5 tubes to use for all the cats.pretty cheap actually.
And for nutrition I got them dried kitten formula milk.

I would really want to spend more time there with them to feed and treat but they live about an hour away from where I live, and normally after work I go ti language class.... but I have to figure something out


Do you think I should separate them from the mother and bottle fees them? I woukd be too scared to do that. What if they died here? I would feel like I might have caused it.


It is going to be long long hours until tomorrow afternoon when I take them to the vet....

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Yes, it's common for vets to say they are unable to help a newly born baby. They will likely help with the eye though, it's when the baby has signs of weakness or illness when they don't usually want to help since they are so fragile and weak, and often don't do well in the end.

It's best if they can stay with a mom and nurse, but this is only if they are being rotated, as there is no way the older babies will allow them to nurse properly and get stronger. They will never get better, maybe just enough to survive but not enough at this point.

You could always bottle feed, but understand that if they or one doesn't make it, it is not your fault in any way, it just was too late to pull them back from the downhill point. But would know you tried, and cared. 

If you do decide to bottle feed them, I would do it asap, just because of the condition they are in now.

Don't expect miracles with the one baby who is so weak and can't walk, okay? At least if he does die, it will be in loving hands, remember that.

Depending on the twins and whether or not they will be vigilant in rotation for them, and the eye treatment, is what you should consider in your decision to bottle feed or not really.

The hard clump of pus on the one's eye, is it on the outside of the eye or inside? It must be glued with it on the outside otherwise how would you be able to see it right?! Jeez....

I wonder if it would help to soften it if you could get some oil behind it to penetrate the clump? Like mineral oil. I've heard of using contact lens solution also weak tea, which has some anti-inflammatory properties.

Once the eye is finally open, the ointment should be put in constantly, like 4 times a day, and possibly need to push on the eye a bit for the pus to start coming out, but rather not do this, so we will just see as things go.

Just got to get the darn stuck eye open asap.

What do you mean by mineral oil? And weak tea? The clump is on the outside but itbis hard to confirm that because I could still see the furr. I will try to take better photos.


The twins just confirmed to me on the phone that the mother stopped breastfeeding the little one... they are scared to rotate because - they say -they tried to and the mother ended up leaving them.

Ok now I willing to consider bottle feeding but how would I do that from 7 to 5.30 when im in the office? .... o can come for a few minutes of lunch break if I am not in the field....

This is not gonna be enough to feed them AND help them poo and pee....

I am going to call my neighbour and ask if she would be willing to help.... if not...... whay do you think?


I should try to find a suitable bottle the syringe alone is not enough. For some reason the twins are not accepting to feed the kitty more than a few drops every 4 hours... theh say they will make it choke!!!!!! I don't understand the resistance!

The one with the eye problem is eating more or less ok but the dehydrated one has no strength to do it!

I will probably ask one of them to join to the vet and maybe that will convince them.

djoe said:

What do you mean by mineral oil? And weak tea? The clump is on the outside but itbis hard to confirm that because I could still see the furr. I will try to take better photos.


The twins just confirmed to me on the phone that the mother stopped breastfeeding the little one... they are scared to rotate because - they say -they tried to and the mother ended up leaving them.

Ok now I willing to consider bottle feeding but how would I do that from 7 to 5.30 when im in the office? .... o can come for a few minutes of lunch break if I am not in the field....

This is not gonna be enough to feed them AND help them poo and pee....

I am going to call my neighbour and ask if she would be willing to help.... if not...... whay do you think?


I should try to find a suitable bottle the syringe alone is not enough. For some reason the twins are not accepting to feed the kitty more than a few drops every 4 hours... theh say they will make it choke!!!!!! I don't understand the resistance!

The one with the eye problem is eating more or less ok but the dehydrated one has no strength to do it!

I will probably ask one of them to join to the vet and maybe that will convince them.

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Using a cotton ball or gauze, saturate it with mineral oil and apply to the pus and all around the eye where it needs to open. It will help it soften up and wipe, repeat this until the lid opens. Oil is better for softening than the tea is actually.

It must be on the outside, and you can still see a bit of fur there too showing through.

If this were me, I would have mom contained in a large cage/crate or a small area, rotate the kittens and she is unable to leave.

However this is not going to chance whether she will allow the one baby to nurse or not, if she has decided to stop feeding him, it's because she knows he is not well.

Bottle feeding would go like this-you would need to syringe at first, since the bottle they will be resistent to for a bit but still need to eat, so using a small syringe, putting tiny drops into their cheek only, while on their tummys only, as you likely know already.

Pottying is a piece of cake, as soon as they are fed, I just run warm water in the sink, stick their little but area under the warm water and tap with my finger. Whoop, all done. Plus the rubbing makes them raw and sore, irritated butts.

They will need feeding every 3 hours or so for another week, then they can go 4 hours if needed.

You will want to weight them daily to determine if they are progressing or not getting enough formula.

It will be a rough start, but once they finally latch on to the bottle way, it's smooth sailing after that.

Syringe until you know they have taken in plenty over the first day. Then start trying them on the bottle. They hate it, it's hard and nothing like mom, so try and try, but when they don't take to it then syringe them. ASfter about 4-5 times of attempting, bam, they suddenly 'get' it.

Nipple should have a hole punched into it small, so that tipping it upside down, a drop forms quickly but doesn't drip off unless it is gently shook down.  So start with a small hole and go from there.

Babies also need warmth, for the first 3 weeks 24/7 with a heating pad, get a box to make up their room, small is best. Heating pad on the bottom on half only, in case they get too hot and will scoot off to the other cooler side.

Heating pad should never be exposed, have a towel or soft fabric over it.

A stuffed animal is good, they tend to feel they have something to snuggle with like mom, and will help keep them content.

It's only rough when they are weak and underfed now, and not using a bottle yet. But in a matter of just a few days when they are fed better and taking the bottle nicely, things will get alot better, really!

The twins must not know the right way to syringe a baby. I sure hope they never put them on their backs! Instant pneummonia, happens all the time.

Mineral oil = baby oil for example.

Weak tea = normal tea, say english breakfast tea.  But make it weak, and use of course lukewarm, not hot.

The brothers refuse to extra feed because risk of suffocation: they probably do it wrongly, like they would do with a human baby, the back down.   Yes, there will lbe risks for suffocation...  Giving just a few drops may make the difficulty and danger lesser, but still, its no good way.

Correct is With kittens tummy down, back up, head a little up.  Sometimes they can even be diagonally up, standing on their four paws, head and mouths a little up.

If you use a dropper or a syringe, put in in the corner of the mouth,   and yes, slowly.  Better a little portion but often, then to risk a too big portion and they dont manage to swallow down, or got reflux.

Good to burp them a lttle afterwards.

continuing.

When you supple feed, if they are very small or very week, its easier with a dropper or a syringe.  Bottle is more difficult for them!

Also, give some water or home made pedialyte. inbetween the feedings.    Dehydration is a danger for them, makes them weak.

If weak and lethargic, you can perk in some energy by smearing a little wetted glucose sugar (brand name often Dextrose or similar).

If you dont have it, try with honey.   Even common sugar works, but much slower.

Oh djoe. I just posted in your other thread about Qays, Gebran and Cynthia and now find this new thread of yours. Seems your fate to rescue will carry on and bless your heart for trying to save these babies. You are receiving excellent help from Stefan and catwoman. I just want to add in my prayers for their survival. Strength to you for trying as well.

Good morning everyone.
Thank you all for the support, as usual.

My earlier fosters immediately clicked with my hands and yhe bottle, but they were slightly stronger than thisnone....I remember gebtan fading om me the second day and the rehydration solution helped me get him back.

I will see with the twins today what we can do. And I will try to with the doctor and the neighbour, who is a cat lover. I will need someone to help feeding when im at work.

Will keep you posted,

I would like to believe that the reason we found these little ones is to save them...

djoe said:

Good morning everyone.
Thank you all for the support, as usual.

My earlier fosters immediately clicked with my hands and yhe bottle, but they were slightly stronger than thisnone....I remember gebtan fading om me the second day and the rehydration solution helped me get him back.

I will see with the twins today what we can do. And I will try to with the doctor and the neighbour, who is a cat lover. I will need someone to help feeding when im at work.

Will keep you posted,

I would like to believe that the reason we found these little ones is to save them...

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I absolutely have no doubt in my mind, what-so-ever, this IS the reason you came upon these babies is to save them.

This is what continues to drive me in my rescue, day in and day out.

If it weren't for me, then who?

Same as for you my friend.

You will do fine whatever the decisions are made for the well being of these kids, and you have all of our help and support anytime.

The little one died.....

You did everything you could, and went above and beyond. The little one found love and attention in the last hours of his short little life, we will all grieve over his passing. Thank you for helping.... RIP little Angel!