Elderly parents

You all know that both my parents passed away a few years ago. Rick's parents are still alive and doing fairly well overall. His mom is 93 and his father just turned 91 years old. They have their issues, but we all do and we try to deal with them as we go.

Well, his mom was in a car accident and it was her fault. She was driving back from the grocery store, the car in front of her slowed down to turn into a restaurant and she rear-ended the vehicle. She said the whole thing just happened so fast, she didn't have time to even think about it. She tried to stop, but it was too late. Not a lot of damage to either vehicle and all people are fine. Both cars could be driven away. But she's quite shaken up by the whole thing. She's not had any kind of accident in more than 30 years and she was proud of being a good driver. A couple years ago, when she went into renew her drivers license, she agreed to be re-tested, had an eye test, and had papers signed by her doctor, so that she could get her license renewed. They have an old Jeep Grand Cherokee and it's a very safe vehicle for them....they've had it forever and see no reason to get another vehicle. They're going to get the car fixed; not much wrong with it really, broken headlight, some scratches, etc. 

They do have help coming in, but the women who take her to places (our local farmers market, for example) are to drive her car, not their own vehicles. So she needs to keep her car.

We're getting worried. She is 93 years old and, obviously, her reaction time is pretty slow. She uses a walker to get around. She has essential tremor; it's not Parkinson's, although one might think that if they saw her. Honestly, it's one of those situations where, if you saw her getting into the car, you'd probably stop and think, "Whoa! Why is she even driving?" It's become more difficult for her to get around and we've really seen a difference in her abilities in the last year particularly. Her mental faculties are fine....honest. It's her physical body, not her mental state. Rick's dad cannot drive as he has recently lost the sight in one of his eyes to cancer. We try to take his mom for groceries and Rick takes off work to take them for doctors' appointments and such. Sometimes on Saturdays, we'll take his mom shopping and take her to lunch or to an early dinner, just to get her out of the house for a while. She goes to her bridge game on Thursday afternoons. She used to go to the library, but that's gotten to be too much for her. I usually load up her e-reader with books from my computer and she has a Books on Wheels come to the house every other week or so....I made up a list of her favorite authors and some new-to-her authors for the library people to choose books for her....they do a pretty good job.

At what point do you say, "Mom, we love you, but you need to stop driving"?

Some of you might remember that, several years ago, I actually had to take my aunt's car from her because she was in no shape to drive at all. She had dementia and it was terrible. It was an ugly situation and I know she died, thinking that I stole her car from her. And I guess we did; we brought the car to our house and parked it out back.....Rick would drive it once a week to make sure it was OK. She told everybody that and, actually, she was on her way to the police station to report me for stealing the car when she fell down and broke her hip. And it wasn't too long after that that she passed away. But she would call me and beg me to give her her car back. And we couldn't. She wasn't safe on the road. But it broke my heart that I had to do what I did to her. She'd call my mom and tell her to tell me that if I didn't give her her car back, she was going to throw herself into the river. Then Mom would call me and I'd have to go to the police to help me get into her apartment to make sure she was OK. Til I got there, she was lucid again and wondering what all the fuss was about.

After my dad died, my mom did drive for about six months or so. She was also using a walker and she had trouble getting around. We thought we were going to have another round with Mom, but she called me one morning to say that she was selling the car to my cousin for his son to learn to drive. My sister and I were so relieved. I think Mom was secretly relieved that she didn't have to deal with driving anymore; she knew it was becoming too difficult.

We need to talk to Rick's parents about driving and we don't know how to bring it up. They are such strong people and I know this is going to lead to some place we don't want to go. We're hoping that, since the police did come to the accident and it was obviously her fault, that they make her be re-tested, even though she was just tested a couple years ago. And I'm hoping that she can't pass the test (and I feel guilty for hoping that). They can still keep the car for her "ladies" to drive, but she won't be able to use it anymore. 

But that just puts more stuff on us. As it is, we try, we really do. But Rick and I both work full-time jobs and I'm not close to retirement. His sister is retired, but she went  back to work because she doesn't like being retired. Her husband is also retired and, believe me, he does his share of providing taxi service for them, too. It's not just us. Everybody chips in to help. I feel guilty because I am starting to feel kind of "put upon". And if his mom has to completely give up driving (and I realize it's for the best that she does this), that just adds to things we have to do. And that's difficult, too.

So I'm not sure how this is all going to come out or what's going to happen. We need to bring this up to them and soon.

My uncle gave up driving about two years ago when he was 90.  He did it because he realised he no longer had the reflexes and responses required to drive safely.

If he hadn't I would have mentioned to his doctor that it may be time to give it up.  Is that at all possible with Rick's mum? 

I think a doctor is a good option.. not family, who are often resented in situations like this (as you've found out!) and not as 'official' as the police.

Mani said:

 
My uncle gave up driving about two years ago when he was 90.  He did it because he realised he no longer had the reflexes and responses required to drive safely.

If he hadn't I would have mentioned to his doctor that it may be time to give it up.  Is that at all possible with Rick's mum? 

I think a doctor is a good option.. not family, who are often resented in situations like this (as you've found out!) and not as 'official' as the police.

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We're facing some of that stuff with hubby's mom. She's functioning physically more or less, but the dementia is getting to be a real problem.   We've already had to take away her money basically--we got a power of attorney so we can pay all the bills and monitor her finances.  We're accused regularly of stealing all her money.     The car is next, but fortunately it just sits in the driveway and she doesn't try to drive at this point, so we haven't taken it away yet.  We'll need to soon, though, before she gets a bee in her bonnet to go somewhere and ends up hurting herself or someone else.  

I feel for you, Pam, in your situation, especially since the outcome with your aunt was so difficult.  Asking the doctor is a good idea.

It sounds like you're already part of the way there, with the "ladies" helping out for certain trips.  Can they afford for these ladies to take on a little more?

I'll be thinking of you and wishing you well.  It isn't easy telling grownups stuff they don't want to hear.  But chances are, it's already crossed their mind and therefore NOT news to them.

I wouldn't be surprised if this accident is just the "wake up call" she needs. 

I have a friend whose wife started to have bouts of "forgetfullness" 10 years ago.  One afternoon, when she went out for a 10 minute trip to the grocery store, she ended up in a whole 'nother city an hour and a half away.  That was her wake up call, and she made the decision to turn in her keys.  According to my friend, the conversation was actually easier than he expected.

Everyone is different, though.  Our vehicles are a kind of statement of independence, it's understandably difficult to let that go.

Yes Pam it is a difficult situation.  My sister will be 86 in August and still drives and does it well.  She always says when she realizes she can't drive anymore, she will stop.  Of course anything can happen as it did with Evelyn.  I'm just glad she is ok. 

Yeah when our loved ones get older we have to be there to help but you have always been there for people.  I certainly can vouch for that.

Hope your Easter Sunday dinner is going well.

My mom and inlaws aren't that old.  Mom was 75 in January.  There are times that I cringe when she drives.  But she lives with my sister (her choice- not because she can't live by herself).  And she doesn't even drive very far.  She won't drive by herself to see me- and that's fine with me.  But she will fly by herself. 

Fil just turned 80.  Mil is in her upper 70's.  He insists on keeping this nighttime paper route where he goes out and drives at 2am.  And I cringe when he drives too sometimes (dh won't let him drive us around- we drive him when we go there to visit).  Mil can't drive at night right now b/c she's got cataracts that need to be taken care of.  But I'm assuming she'll drive when they're taken care of. 

They also live on this 100 acre farm.  A half- mile away from any neighbors.  They have it on the market.  It is WAY overpriced- it's been on the market for almost a year and there have been no takers.  They refuse to lower the price.  And Bil doesn't want them to.  Add to this that Mil did a whole lot of work on the house and now she's happy and doesn't want to move. 

Fil also has a hard time walking.  He can only walk for a bit before it hurts too much.  I don't know what's going on- and they say nothing. 

My sister-in-law lives 30 minutes away.  My other sister-in-law is 2 hours away.  We are 10 hours away.  Does it worry me?  Oh yeah.  There's not much we can do right now.  Dd has another year in high school before she graduates.  Dh likes his job (for the most part).  The oldest is in college 3 hours west of here (same state).  One day, if the land doesn't sell, I would love to sell this place, move out there and build something down the road from them.  I just don't know if that's ever going to happen or not. 

Sorry for rambling.  Glad your husband's mom is ok.  I don't want to have that conversation with the inlaws either- mine are just as stubborn and there would probably be very hard feelings.

Cheryl

I've had numerous conversations with my mom over the past few years and once it was talked about openly it was easier than I expected: she had the same worries and considerations as I guess we all do, about independence, needing other people to do things, choice and spontenaity, accepting something is getting harder and you are getting older or less able to a point you can't ignore it any more.  For my family it has meant thinking about where we live and also having to find a way to talk with mom about moving house and to a different town.  That was even more scary but again, once the conversation was started it was amazing how easy it was to start to look at what should happen.  I did spend a few years with my mom kind of building up to a lot of this by decluttering her home with her and checking how she was feeling about things first though which probably helped.  

You might find that this accident has really shaken your mom and maybe she will be relieved if she is able to talk more openly about what is going on in her head.  You will know her best in terms of how she is likely to be thinking.

My mom finally sold her car a few weeks ago and will now need help with heavier shopping she can't manage, or if she isn't well enough to use the bus.  She is otherwise independent for now, and  lives over 50 miles away so not the easiest of situations but could be a lot harder.  

We didn't talk about it yesterday because there were other people there and it wasn't the right place. But she is driving the car to the garage for the claims person to inspect and it is going to be repaired. Rick said he'd take the car in, but she said she wanted to do it. As we're both working today, Rick just said OK and left it go. At this point, I think we're going to wait to see what the police report says as she was obviously at fault. We'll see if she gets cited and for what and take it from there.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts and experiences. It helps to know that others are going through this or have gone through this. It's hard when the children become the parents....if that makes any sense.

My dad accepted it very well, I think he knew he just didn't want to be the one that brought it up.  He did have to move.  He was a retired farmer and still lived in the country so he moved into town.  The town close to where I grew up is very small only about 2000 people so it wasn't much of a change, everyone knows everyone and still hold on to the old tradition of neighbors helping neighbors.  If he just needed a couple of things he would walk to the store which was not a problem for him physically.

Yikes Pam; that is difficult.  Maybe she will come to accept it on her own.  My Dad and Aunt took the keys from my Grandfather.  He had dementia and was only driving literally down the street to the American Legion; but one day Dad watched him to see how he was doing.  He saw him bump one snowbank and then another and that was it.  Grandpa wasn't happy; but he came to accept it.  Everyone with dementia seems to experience it differently.  He was more verbally resistant; whereas my other grandmother took off walking down the street.  (With my aunt following in the car.)  In that Grandmother's case; it was good her physical abilities declined along with her mental ones.  I have to laugh a bit at your Aunt trying to turn you in to the police for stealing her car.  My Grandmother is convinced my Grandpa put her in the nursing home because his girlfriend was pregnant with his child and he wanted to move her in.  My Grandpa was in his late 80s at that point.   But Gram used to "see" all kinds of things. 

My other Grandfather has recently given up driving.  He is 92 and mentally sharp as well; but he has developed neuropathy in his feet and fingers.  It's become too difficult to drive; even to the grocery store directly down the street.  He gets around his home fine for cooking and things; but has help for cleaning and yard work.  He has found new ways to putter around.  He's never been one to sit still so it's been an adjustment.  I do feel bad that I don't live anywhere close enough to be helpful.  It falls on my Aunt mostly; but even one of his nieces has stepped up to be there for him.  One of the older great-granddaughters is the one doing the cleaning.

I know I'm only in my mid-20's, but my dad is in his 70's. He had a stroke couple months ago, and lost function of his left leg and arm. It is better now, but still weak there and requires his usual excercises. It is still tricky though, since it is only my mom and I - all the other family members are far away, so it is alot.
 

Of course, he still wanted to drive, something that was a wee bit worrisome considering the limitations.

At any rate, just think this - it is better to deal with an argument and tight emotions, then the risk of someone else getting seriously hurt or killed. Your willingless to discuss could very well save a person's life later on, including hersself, and it will be worth it. It will be hard, but worth it.

Who knows, even if in the outside she might still feel stubborness, denial, or whichever feeling it might be about driving, in the inside I'm sure she already knows. You might be pleasantly surprised, you won't know until it is attempted. Have it be done and over with, instead of it lingering stressfully in your guys' head for days at a time. It might even be lingering in their head too, just waiting at any moment for The Talk. Neither side would want this sort of thing to drag on, to a point where everyone tip toes around each other.

While it is understandbly difficult to lose driving priviledges, it is important to remember that it doesn't define a person, nor a reflection of status nor shutting down of complete freedom (Even if sometimes society says the contrary). Tell her that you are doing this because you love her and care about her safety, wanting her to continue having a long healthy life. Of course, no doubt we all already know, is to not talk about it in a patronizing way as if they were kids, or a pariah etc Mayhaps all of you can think up of other ideas to keep her mentally enganged and busy? Like a club (Mini golf, Red Hat Society, square or ballroom dancing, movie night, tea gathering etc) where she can meet people a second time a week. Maybe even a future trip that devotes purely on seniors. For example, every summer there is a cruise that goes down the river that is just for seniors. Everything is catered for them to the T. It is quite lovely and comfortable, and they may stop to look at sites or go to a restaurant (Gave them a tour at the museum I worked at!). Does she have any pets? A small pet at home, sometimes that isn't too difficult to maintain, might not be a bad concept, for a little bit of daily company.


Obviously, that is all easier said than done, especially financially, personal willingless and time. But possibly worth a thought.

Have you looked up any possible senior rides in your area? For example: http://www.torontoride.ca/
 

Best of luck, and many many hugs. I have no idea if I was remotely helpful, but altogether we are all here for you guys! They are very lucky to have a wonderful daughter-in-law like you. Stuff like this definitely is not easy  My late grandpapa went through similar, and my ballet instructor is currently going through the same thing with her parents who are in their 90's, and lives three hours away from them.

I'm sorry you are having to deal with this, Pam.

In my father's case, my mother mentioned something to the doctor. I think the doctor was horrified he was still driving. The doctor then notified the registry and they got something in the mail where they had to mail his license in. My father was very, very upset.

Poor pam. It seems to be happening a lot now with people living longer. My dad died when he was 75 of a sudden massive stroke so there was never a problem with driving. My mum didn't drive - nor do I - and nor did my grandparents.
Don't worry betsygee. My mother wasn't impaired in her mind but she still accused my vsister of stealing. She was 80 when she died. As I'm living the life of luxury over here my sister was landed with all problems. I wouldn't have coped.
But I'm the lucky one compared to all of you.
Of course your MiL mustn't drive anymore pam. Much to dangerous not just for her but for people around. Good luck.

What makes it bad is that his mom decides she wants us to do something and it has to be NOW. Well, we both work and we're not ready to retire, so it can't be NOW. It has to be when we can do it. I have no problem taking her anywhere....as long as Rick is along. Why? Because if she falls, there's no way I can get her back up. So Rick and I take her together (the only time Rick takes her alone is to church because I don't go to church). Her "ladies" take her for a few grocery items and they take her to the farmers market, too.....that's the market that I like to walk to on Wednesdays. It's been in existence forever.

But they don't take them to their doctor's appointments because that's Rick's job.   So he has to take vacation time from work so that he can run them to the doctor when they need to go. (And that's something the ladies could do.) It's OK because Rick has a ton of vacation time that he can use. But he has to put in for his time off weeks in advance, so he has to know ASAP and they're not real good about telling him about their appointments.

As far as we know, she hasn't heard anything from the police yet; I rather thought she would have by now. Unless she did and hasn't told us, which is likely, too. We're stopping in this morning, so we'll see how things are. We do little things on Saturday mornings: get stuff from her freezer in the basement up to the kitchen freezer, work on a bit of laundry, things like that. Things that we can do in the basement, so they don't have to run down there throughout the week.

I know it's hard for them, too. They're not the type to depend on anybody else; they take care of themselves and that's the way it is. 

There is a transportation assistance program in our county for seniors and for disabled people. Rick's parents were absolutely horrified when I brought that up. They don't need anything like that.

They have a beagle, Jackie. But Rick's dad only takes her out now to potty and that's it. The poor dog is overweight and I've told him that he needs to get her out more often. I walk her when I can. She's a good dog and she's a great companion for them. They got her from a local rescue, but only after making us promise that if anything happened to them, we would take Jackie into our family. And we will. 

Actually, my mother wasn't a bad driver. Yeah, it took her a while to get into the car because she had to get her walker in the trunk and then get herself situated. It was one of those situations where, if you saw her getting into the car, you would probably be horrified, thinking, "OMG, what is she doing even driving?" But she wasn't bad. I followed her home from Dad's nursing home more than once and she never swerved, she was always right in the middle of the lane, she took no chances, etc. She was careful. (Maybe because she knew I was behind her.) But even she got to the point where she knew she had to stop driving.

I think the drivers license is that last vestige of independence for many people, especially if they live alone. And it's so difficult to give that up. 

I was talking to our son right after Mom passed away. He said he was looking at houses down in his neighborhood. I asked him why, that he had just moved down there. He said it was because he wanted us to move down there when we retired, so  if anything happened, he'd be close by. Well, maybe I'll change my mind when the time comes, but for now? I'm staying where I'm at. But I do think it's nice of him to be thinking about that. 

Winchester said:

I was talking to our son right after Mom passed away. He said he was looking at houses down in his neighborhood. I asked him why, that he had just moved down there. He said it was because he wanted us to move down there when we retired, so  if anything happened, he'd be close by. Well, maybe I'll change my mind when the time comes, but for now? I'm staying where I'm at. But I do think it's nice of him to be thinking about that. 

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lt's wonderful of him to be thinking about that, you've raised a good man who has obviously learned well from all the help you give to your in-laws.

Winchester said:

There is a transportation assistance program in our county for seniors and for disabled people. Rick's parents were absolutely horrified when I brought that up. They don't need anything like that.

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l was going to ask about this, we have this well-used service here. Ours is govt sponsored but through the bus service so they have the bus livery on the mini-buses, and seems like less of a "charity" and more like a regular specialized service. Maybe there is something similar there, it's a fantastic service and they'd probably love it if they tried it.

Our program is government-sponsored, too, actually it's a county thing. But they would never use it....we've talked about it. As long as Rick has vacation days that he can use to taxi them around, I'm going to let that go. 

There are other issues here, too, but it's a public board and not the place for airing out issues with elderly parents.   We all have problems with our parents and sometimes, it's not easy trying to figure out what's best for everybody. 

Winchester said:

 
 We all have problems with our parents and sometimes, it's not easy trying to figure out what's best for everybody. 

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Very true.

Do they have sufficient funds to hire a private car for occasional outings? That might be a good compromise---more "dignified" than the senior bus but still available on demand. My grandmother (who is still occasionally driving at age 93 but shouldn't be :/) is too proud to use the senior bus, too. She also won't allow her kids/grandkids to drive her around because she "doesn't want to be a bother". But she hires a lady to take her around---I guess it makes her feel better if she pays for it. So she only drives herself when that lady is unavailable.

It is a difficult situation and I feel for you, having been through it with my father. He died still accusing my mother of having given his car away without his permission - we made a pretence of my daughter needing it for work as hers was off the road. By the time we did it he was really really dangerous on the road, forgetting where he was going and stopping dead in the middle of junctions etc. But by then he was also suffering from dementia and was not himself. So I would say, do not leave it till it is too late. Have the conversation when she is still able to talk reasonably and understand. I think it would be a good idea to see what comes out of this accident and use it to try and stop her. Even if she is not cited she knows it was her fault and her reactions are to blame. It is amazing how quickly people can adjust to using public transport, taxis etc.