Can I paper-train a cat?

runekeeper

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Some months ago, my kitty decided that his litter boxes were only worthy of urine, but not anything else and he would instead poop on the floor near or beside the boxes. With him being on a mostly chicken diet, his deposits aren't very solid and they smell horrible and it's no fun trying to scrub almost-diarrhea out of the carpet multiple times a day. Anytime I would catch him squatting on the floor about to drop a deuce and put him in his box, he'd just leave the room.

So I tried lining the entire basement floor (especially in his favorite poop spots) with newspaper. At first it seemed to discourage him, but he'd still either go in the garage (where his boxes are) and poop on the floor, or he'd walk to the edge of the papered area and go on the carpet. It's still hit and miss, but the last couple days, he's been actually pooping on the papers and burying it. It's not as good as going in the litter box, but it's much better than having to clean the carpet after he makes a deposit. I can't tell you how much air freshener and Resolve I've used in the basement already.

If he's content with pooping on newspaper, I can deal with that. I'm wondering if it's possible to continue lining the floor with papers and then cutting down on the number of paper to the point where he'd only go on the paper if left beside the litter boxes. Has anyone ever tried doing this with a cat? The only thing is he also likes to lay on newspapers and I don't want him laying in his own messes.
 

catpack

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While I have heard of someone "training" their cat to use puppy pee pads, I think your problem may be due to GI issues. Have you had your cat vet checked for parasites/bacterial infections recently? It sounds as if you may think his chicken diet may be to blame?

Have you tried putting your cat on a novel protein diet to see if this clears up the diarrhea?

It is quite possible that kitty is avoiding the litter box due to stomach pain.
 

di and bob

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You could sure try. I guess it would depend on the cat, but they are sure smart enough! I've trained dogs to go in a litter box, so why not vice-versa? It sounds to me that he doesn't like the box for pooping or wants a different box altogether, 1 for each which is definitely not unheard of. Maybe he wants a different litter for each. You might want to try two different boxes first. Or even use shredded newspaper in one. Good luck and keep us posted on your progress.
 
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runekeeper

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He does have two boxes. They used to be covered, but I thought maybe the cover was somehow scaring him (despite the fact he's been going in a covered box for years), so I removed the cover. I think maybe he has started finding it hard to actually get into the formerly covered boxed, which have high sides, so now he has two shallow boxes. He seems to like going in one more than the other.

I've also been giving him chicken because he likes to throw up a lot and was doing so on an almost-daily basis when he was eating canned cat food, so I switched to cooked chicken. It confuses me because I've seen and read the results of other folks switching their kitties from cat food to meat and the cat's bowel movements were a little more solid and there was less of an odor. When kitty was still eating catfood and didn't vomit it up, he seemed a little constipated and his BMs didn't smell much. So the meat diet has had the opposite effect on him.

He has not been tested recently for anything, but I don't think it's parasites since I think I would have seen evidence of them in his stools. And this has been going on for a while, and I assume a bacterial infection left untreated would have made him very very sick by now (after all, UTIs can kill a cat).

I have some extra litter boxes. I'll try putting shredded paper in one of them and see how that works out. Thanks for the suggestions! :)
 

vball91

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While I have heard of someone "training" their cat to use puppy pee pads, I think your problem may be due to GI issues. Have you had your cat vet checked for parasites/bacterial infections recently? It sounds as if you may think his chicken diet may be to blame?

Have you tried putting your cat on a novel protein diet to see if this clears up the diarrhea?

It is quite possible that kitty is avoiding the litter box due to stomach pain.
I too think the litter box avoidance is pain related. If he is consistently having diarrhea like poop, there is something wrong with his GI system. Does he have IBD? How long has he been on a cooked chicken diet? Cooked chicken is not nutritionally complete and should not be fed long term. He may also be intolerant/allergic to chicken.
 

happybird

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I agree with the others- this sounds like a medical issue more than a behavioral issue (or I guess it would be a behavioral issue caused by a medical issue). A trip to the vet for an evaluation would be a good idea. Cats are good at hiding pain, so sometimes eliminating outside of the box is the only clue they give us that something is wrong. UTI's can lurk and be mild and unnoticeable for weeks before they get really bad. I agree with Vball, it sounds like it could be a digestive/GI issue.

Switching to raw requires careful planning to ensure the cat is getting all the special nutrients he needs and supplements unique to each cat's situation. Once you get the right diet for your cat nailed down, then it be becomes easy to feed and you begin to see the benefits. Boiled chicken is considered a bland diet, usually served with white rice for only a day or two until vomiting or diarrhea clears up. It is not a complete diet. Cooking can remove some of the important nutrients, so a raw diet is that- raw and uncooked with the uncooked bones and marrow included. Organ meats are packed with good stuff and make up a good part of the diet. Feeding an inexpensive canned food would be better than a diet of only cooked chicken. This is probably the best site for cat nutrition and gives tips on how to feed cats prone to UTI's or digestive issues. http://www.catinfo.org/.

My Sammy started peeing and pooping out of the litterbox a few weeks ago. Sure enough, he had a urinary tract infection. Until we got him back in order after his vet visit, I used puppy training pads around the litter box for him to pee on. The cats did not like to lay on them like they did newspaper and there was the added bonus of being able to clearly see the color of his urine on the white pad. They absorb well and make clean up easy. Plus, they do not leak if the cat digs on them to 'bury' the mess (unless the cat is very enthusiastic and the plastic backing is ripped).
 
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runekeeper

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I have no idea if he has IBD. And he's been on the chicken diet for a few months. I switched to chicken because I got sick of buying him canned food (Fancy Feast, the only brand he would eat) that he would only eat half the time; the other half I threw the food away because he would not eat refrigerated/microwaved or frozen/thawed cat food. And when he did eat it, it usually was vomited back up, which I assumed was from being too rich and, at the time, fatty liver disease, which has cleared up with the help of the chicken diet. I had to get something in his belly that he would actually eat consistently and would stay down, and chicken happened to work. He still vomits a few times a week, but it might be due to not chewing his food properly and swallowing it whole, even though I mince it up pretty finely (he only has half his teeth). Or sometimes I think he has days where he just barfs for no reason like most cats do. I think he's on a secret mission to vomit and poop on every square inch of the house.

I recently learned about slippery elm bark for kitty digestive and GI issues and I think I'd like to give that a shot. A lot of people seem to swear by it, and hopefully he'll actually eat what I hide it in. Usually he knows when I drug him and won't touch the food I give him that has a supplement in it (save for FortiFlora, which he enjoyed). If SEB shows success, maybe I can get him back on a kitty food diet along with chicken or chicken baby food on the side for extra protein. Like I said, the only reason I switched him to chicken was to try and get food to stay down since he's already skin and bones. In addition, I feed him boiled chicken and let it soak in the broth in the refrigerator like soup, so I think he still gets some nutrients that might otherwise be lost via boiling.

Also, I have no idea what a novel protein diet is. I figured giving him meat would offer enough protein. Catinfo seems to be more about homemade food and how to not feed dry kibbles, neither of which really apply to my kitty. He was eating canned food and now he eats meat. Thank you for the link - I actually did read there before when looking into a meat diet for kitty - but I don't think it applies to him.
 

catpack

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A novel protein is any animal protein he has never had before (Duck, Venison, Lamb...)

Are you only feeding him cooked chicken without any supplements??
I understand trying to get something in him for nutrition purposes; but, there are serious consequences for feeding a non-balanced diet long term. Retinal degeneration can occur in a matter of 2 weeks without taurine supplementation, you can also have serious heart problems. (This is why ALL commercial cat food is required to add taurine.)

You can continue to make his food; but, you need to figure out how to get all the essential vitamins/minerals into his diet. CatInfo *is* a good source as they talk about the requirements for a home prepared diet that is fully balanced and complete.

Also, a healthy cat will not just vomit periodically. If a cat is vomiting on a regular basis (be it daily, several times a week...) there is something medically/dietary wrong.

It's been trial an error for me with one of our rescues. He is highly allergic to chicken/chicken products (egg, chicken fat...) and venison. Also, not that it is a problem; but, he also will *not* touch fish of ANY kind.
He finally settled on Nature's Variety Instinct's limited ingredient Turkey formula and a mixture of Gerber stage 2 turkey mixed with Natural Balance limited ingredient can Duck formula for his wet food.
 

vball91

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What exactly is his chicken diet? Meat and broth alone are not nutritionally complete. You need a calcium source and certain vitamins/minerals/amino acids.

Also agree with CatPack that cats do not just vomit regularly for no reason. This indicates that something is wrong with the GI system.
 

hazmat

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One of my cats hates litter. She uses empty litter boxes (dish pans).

I simply dump them in the toilet and spray out with cleaner and wipe with toilet paper.

Try putting an empty litter box next to the one she pees in. 
 
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runekeeper

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So far, the slippery elm bark is yielding unimpressive results. I don't know if it's supposed to take immediate effect or if I have to feed it to him for a few days before it starts working. I tried giving it to him in some cottage cheese and he wouldn't eat it, I assume because he could taste the herbs. So I put it in some Fancy Feast - the first he's eaten in quite some time. I got the entire 400 mg of powder in the food and he licked the dish, but I found every last bite of food barfed up in the basement a few hours later. I assume this means none of the herb stayed down long enough to make a difference.

He got a second can of FF a few hours later (before I knew he threw the first one up) and so far it's staying down. I know I need to hide medication in something with a strong flavor and smell, but how is it he's still vomiting despite being given an anti-emetic supplement? I can't very well get him back on cat food when he throws it all up. I've got my money on kidney issues, personally. His symptoms match perfectly, and if I were to try and treat it and the symptoms, it would be with home remedies just to minimize stress in kitty's life. He hates getting fluids, so I already know I wouldn't pursue that. Trust me, this cat cannot be given pills and I don't think anti-nausea meds could be injected. And he is miserable when he gets sub-q fluids.

I don't know if it's a matter of the SEB just doesn't work or it doesn't stay in his belly long enough to take effect before getting vomited. I'd give it to him as a snack, but the only way I can get it in his system is in Fancy Feast, which he will not touch if it's not fresh out of the can. So it has to be eaten with an actual meal. And his diet is/was just chicken and broth, along with the occasional cheese because it was something he would eat. Not nutritionally sound, I know, but given the choice of him eating cat food, throwing it up and getting no nutrients and giving him bland chicken and cheese and only having him throw up occasionally, I have to pick the latter. Does it give him the nutrition he needs? No. But he needs something in his belly, and the chicken/cheese is what he can keep down. Commercial cat food is too rich for his system. In my experience, there is only one thing more important than feeding a sick cat the proper formula, and that is getting a sick cat to eat at all. Sometimes just giving the cat whatever he wants is what you have to do to keep kitty alive. I know it isn't healthy long-term, but it's healthier than letting him starve from throwing up canned cat food. I would do something different if I knew what.

Also, I couldn't put vitamins in his food anyway. Chicken is bland, and if I, say, made homemade food with blended chicken and various supplements, he wouldn't eat it. The chicken's flavor is much too bland to disguise the often bitter flavor of vitamins. I know from experience with trying to "drug" his food in the past and trying to put it in things like chicken baby food. It's a no-go. That's another reason why I don't make "fortified" homemade food. If I knew for sure he would eat it and it would stay down? Sure, I'd do it. But I know either he'll refuse or throw it up, so I see no point in spending a ton of money on supplements that will just get thrown away. It sucks, but I know my cat and his dietary habits.

Le sigh. Gonna stick it out a bit longer with the slippery elm bark and see if it makes a difference. If he can keep it down, that is. I would really really like to get him back on kitty food. Now that his liver is better, his appetite has improved and he actually really likes canned food again. It's just it always comes back up. :(
 
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runekeeper

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A little update on Kippy. He seems to be doing better overall since I've gotten him back on cat food. That first day he barfed up kitty food with slippery elm bark was most likely just from a very rapid transition from chicken to cat food and his system didn't like it. But since then, he's only thrown up everything once, which I attribute to eating too much at once.  He's also tossed up little hunks of meat I gave him as treats that he didn't chew. So I take back what I said about the SEB because it's working wonders.

In addition, his appetite has grown, I think. He seems to be hungry more often - not constantly, but he easily eats 3-4 cans of Fancy Feast a day and/or a can of Friskes and 2-3 cans of Fancy Feast and keeps it all down. He also hops up on things more often and looks actually comfortable when he lies down rather than looking like roadkill.  I could just be imagining this, but he feels like he might be gaining a bit of weight.

On top of this, his accidents have been noticeably fewer in number since he finally realized he now has a litter box upstairs, so there's no need to go all the way to the basement to potty. He still has accidents, but not nearly as many. His stools have also started having some form since I got him back on his kitty food. Not totally solid, but not the pure liquid he was doing before. But he needs to go at least two weeks with no accidents before I'll decide it's time to unwrap the basement.

He went to see the vet today and I found out he weighs only 6.75 pounds, but maybe that'll improve with more kitty food. He also got Fortiflora and antibitoics for enteritis, which I don't know what that is.

So I'd say he's doing well. :)
 
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