Giardia nightmare! Please help!

fefuerzaamor

TCS Member
Thread starter
Young Cat
Joined
Mar 5, 2014
Messages
22
Purraise
1
I have a 4 1/2 month old kitten from a shelter that I came to learn the hard way that they did not take good care of her.  She was diagnosed with giardia within the first week having her home.  They put her on metronidazole and amoxicillin (they didn't have the giardia results at the beginning so they wanted to cover their bases with amoxicillin) for 14 days. She was also put on panacur for 6 days.  She was cleared of it right after but was tested positive for giardia again just 2 weeks after.  She was put on metronidazole for 10 days and panacur for 8 days (I gave her an extra 4 days of the panacur).  She just finished the panacur one day ago and I'm scared beyond my understanding that maybe it may come back again.  I do not have the capabilities to continue on this way as I have gone crazy cleaning and barely sleep.  I sanitize daily for 4 hours and just did a complete overhaul the other day with bleach and a steam cleaner.  Everything that could be bleached was bleached and everything else was steam cleaned at 345 degrees. I got this kitten to help my 9 year old cat who was dealing with Feline Idiopathic Cystits from stress of losing her 8 yr old sister just some time ago.  My debate currently is whether to treat her for a 3rd round without waiting to see if she stays clear of giardia this time around.  I know its a possibility it may be gone for good but I also read many other stories that its also the same possibility it could return.  I asked my vet and he agreed to put her on metronidazole again for another 14 days but he refused to put her back on panacur.  Has anyone treated their previously diagnosed kitten for a 3rd round before testing for giardia?  To put it frank, I do not have the capabilities to care for her if it returns for many many reason and I truly do not want to send her back to the shelter that she got this from in the first place.  As well, I also know that none of this is her fault so I don't want to just give up that easily.  Please I would love to hear some suggestions on whether to treat her again right away, should I wait, should I not do it at all or should I consider other alternatives?  Please, I am losing my sanity as this has affected every area of my life and I worry at this point what kind of life am I giving my kitten and my 9 yr old cat if I do not have the time to take care of myself either?
 

stephanietx

TCS Member
Veteran
Joined
Dec 1, 2005
Messages
14,772
Purraise
3,491
Location
Texas
Giardia can be difficult to treat and to get rid of, especially if it's a severe case, which it sounds like your little girl has.  I would also ask them to check for tritrichomonas foetus to see if she might also have that.  http://www.highgait.com/page/page/3485008.htm   It's diagnosed using the same PCR test as giardia.
 

burkey

TCS Member
Adult Cat
Joined
Feb 4, 2014
Messages
160
Purraise
32
Location
Illinois
Has she been retested? Or is your vet assuming the returning symptoms are caused by giardia because she tested postive previously? If she hasn't been retested and it's just an assumption at this point, there are other things that can cause a kitten or cat to have diarrhea. For example, it could be as simple as her food not agreeing with her.

Also, has your older cat been tested? While most cats will show symptoms, it is indeed possible for a cat to have giardia and be asymptomatic. One of my teenage kittens tested positive for giardia and yet we had no signs of it in the litter box. If your older cat is a carrier, she could be reinfecting your kitten, if they use the same litter box and/or share the same living spaces. If you are going to retreat your kitten, you might want to ask the vet about treating your older cat at the same time simply as a precautionary measure, if she's healthy enough for the medications used.

Metronidazole and Panacur are the go-to treatments for giardia, and I believe the Panacur gets more strains of the giardia than the metro. So your vet has likely treated her appropriately to this point (providing he is actually retesting, not just assuming a reoccurrence). I remember reading somewhere that there is a certain probiotic that can help eliminate giardia but it is a longer-term treatment. And it's not just any probiotic...I think it needs to contain S.Boulardi (spelling?). Hopefully someone will come across this thread with accurate information for you, in regards to that.

Giardia can be tough to knock out in some pets. So needing multiple rounds of treatment isn't unheard of.  I feel for you. Hang in there.
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #5

fefuerzaamor

TCS Member
Thread starter
Young Cat
Joined
Mar 5, 2014
Messages
22
Purraise
1
She has not be retested since the 2nd time she was positive for giardia.  I was the one who actually requested to still do the 3rd round of meds as a precautionary.  The amount of money and time needed to disinfect and steam clean my entire apartment if it happens to return is just not feasible for me anymore.  I have let my work be affected due to the lack of sleep and the amount of stress involved in trying to keep either my kitten or my cat from not getting infected or re-infected.  She still has a bit of the awful smell in her stools when you have giardia and I'm so worried about letting her around my apartment again.   On the flip side, I have had her for almost 2months and she has spent most of that time isolated in my room which I don't feel is really good for her in the end.  My kitten and my cat still have not full integrated with each other because they don't get much time to spend together.  My cat did get treated during the 2nd round of meds as they were concerned that she could be an asymptomatic carrier.  We did not treat her the during the first round due to her high level of anxiety and stress and we didn't want to make things worse for her having been dealing with the feline idiopathic cystitis at the same time.  We have not tested her however due to costs which is why we treated her during the 2nd round just to be sure.  They have their own litter boxes but occasionally will use each others boxes which I try to stop them from doing if I catch them.  I would love to find out more about this long term probiotic as I have a feeling this may be a long term problem anyways.  Hopefully I can find this info and get her started on that.  Since my vet won't put her back on panacur, do you have any other suggestions of another med she can be put on in combination with the metro? 
 

burkey

TCS Member
Adult Cat
Joined
Feb 4, 2014
Messages
160
Purraise
32
Location
Illinois
It sounds like you've been through the wringer. When we were treating our guy for it, our vet didn't recommend nearly as stringent a cleaning protocol as yours apparently has!  We were told to:

A) scoop as often as possible...whenever we saw the box had been used, first thing in the morning, upon returning home from being out for awhile, etc.

B) disinfect the scooper once per day. We kept a spray bottle of diluted bleach near the sink which made this simple and I did it each night before going to bed.

C) clean out & disinfect the litter box once mid-way through treatment (day 3), and after the last dose had been given (day 5). Then weekly until the re-test 2 weeks later.

D) Mop hard floors mid-way through treatment (day 3) and again after last dose (day 5), using dilute bleach on surfaces that can handle it.

E) Vacuum every few days, with a good vacuum with beater bar turned on.

F) wash our hands thoroughly after scooping, cleaning the box, etc.

That was it. No steaming and bleaching everything, etc....I'd be exhausted too, doing all that you have.

The only two meds that I'm familiar with for treating giardia are the metro and panacur. Our vet prescribed one 5-day round of panacur for our guy (who was about 7 months at the time), and he tested clean after that. He was asymptomatic, so perhaps his infection was pretty mild. Did your vet state why he didn't want to use Panacur again? It's available over the counter (in the US), so I made the assumption it wasn't that harsh when dosed & used appropriately. And I do know for humans, metro can have some not so great side effects.

Give some of the probiotic threads here in these forums a read. There is a lot of info to be had...their use is beneficial for so many things. I'd probably put her on one (human-grade, not pet) just to support her digestive system in general, at this point.  I'm sorry I cannot remember more about the person who had some luck with the particular strain of probiotic vs. giardia. I tried a search for you, but because there are so many probiotic threads I'm coming up empty-handed.
 

cprcheetah

TCS Member
Top Cat
Joined
Nov 23, 2013
Messages
1,887
Purraise
149
Location
Bountiful, UTah
What test are they running?  Sending it out to a lab?  Fecal at the vet?  Snap Test?  Some tests can give a false positive.  Is she having diarrhea?  Bad smells in the stool can also be caused by diet so that may be something to look at as well.  What is she eating?  Has she been dewormed (not for giardia, but for things like round, whipworms etc?)
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #8

fefuerzaamor

TCS Member
Thread starter
Young Cat
Joined
Mar 5, 2014
Messages
22
Purraise
1
Thanks Burkey for looking for me.  That is really nice of you to do.  During Maia's first round of giardia my vet didn't suggest to do anything other than give her the meds which I thought was a bit odd once I went home and read up about how hard giardia can be to rid.  During Maia's second round she told me to clean the litter boxes and food/water dishes daily with boiling water and diluted bleach….which I thought was way too late to be telling me this since I already was doing it the first time (after reading some other threads on here)!  During her second round I was changing/washing all bed linen (she stayed in my bedroom) daily, cleaning the litter boxes with boiling water and bleach daily and refilling with new litter daily, boiling all water and food dishes daily (I was not comfortable using bleach with their dishes), bathed both my kitten Maia and my older cat Cleo at the beginning and the end of treatment, and disinfected hard surfaces with lysol daily.  On the last day of treatment is when I disinfected all hard surfaces in my apartment with diluted bleach and also steam cleaned everything including my bed, carpets, couch and chairs.  One thing is for sure, there is no way she could have re-infected herself other than directly swallowing cysts when cleaning her bottom.  The rancid smell of her stool the past 2 days is worrisome but thankfully the stools are still looking normal.  Maia is still on Fortiflora for the next week or so but I would really like to find something a bit better.  I saw online a product called Kocci Free which apparently kills the protozoans.  I will have to do some more research first before buying it.  

cprcheetah:  All 3 stools sample tests have been sent out to the lab and they did the Elisa test to check for the antigens each time.  I know there are some tests that can be a false positive which is why I didn't want them to do the fecal float as I thought it would be  waste of time.  Maia is not having diarrhea currently, just the rancid smell that was just the same when she had the giardia each time.  She did have normal smelling poop after she was cleared the first time, as well as this last week while she was finishing her meds during round 2.  I wondered about her diet as well but my vet does not seem to be concerned about it.  She is on Royal Canine wet kitten food and Science Diet dry kitten food (3/4 of her diet is wet, 1/4 dry).  The shelter she came from dewormed her (or her questionable records say so at least) once with Profender and once with Advantage Multi Feline.  Since her records were very inconsistent, I had my vet deworm her 2 more times with Revolution.  
 

burkey

TCS Member
Adult Cat
Joined
Feb 4, 2014
Messages
160
Purraise
32
Location
Illinois
Most vets don't know a whole lot about pet nutrition, and they will frequently recommend the brands they sell at the clinic (like Royal Canin & Science Diet products). There are some who are up to snuff on the topic, but they are few and far between. It doesn't automatically mean they are bad vets overall, they simply just don't get enough instruction on the topic of nutrition while in school.

I think before medicating her again, my inclination would be to take a look at her food. If you're comfortable with it, I'd consider changing it for at least several weeks to see if there's any improvement. I believe the RC and SD kitten varieties that she gets now both contain some of the things a cat doesn't need, like wheat, corn, rice, beet pulp, etc. Cats aren't naturally designed to properly digest those types of ingredients, as they are strict carnivores....and some cats have trouble with them as a result. So, look for products that contain as much meat as possible, and as little veggie/fruit as possible, with zero grains. You don't have to feed her kitten food necessarily, as long as you are offering her quality food that is calorically/nutrionally dense with a fair amount of fat. My kits were a bit older than yours when we adopted them (6 & 7 months), but we fed canned brands like Wellness grain-free & core varieties, Nature's Variety Instinct, and the occasional Fancy Feast Classic and Natural Balance. Shredded types (like Weruva, Tiki, Soulistic) often tend to be much lower in calories &/or fat, so limit or skip those until she's a bit older and her growth slows down). Our guy who still eats some kibble, was given Wellness Core Original for that part of his diet. There are fairly decent foods available for every budget, too...so you don't necessarily have to break the bank.  If it is feasible for you (I know it isn't always), you can even stop the dry food completely, since cats don't need it. If you do keep the dry food part of her diet, and decide to switch, make sure you do it slowly over a week or two...mix the two foods together, slowly increasing the amount of the new while decreasing the old each day. The wet food can be swapped out without a big transition...perhaps try one meal of new for a day or two, and if she does well just go straight to the new wet for every meal.

If you do decide to try a diet switch, and get stuck on what to use, there is a lot of information on the nutrition forum.  The threads over there helped me decide what to give our two when they first came home.
 

stephanietx

TCS Member
Veteran
Joined
Dec 1, 2005
Messages
14,772
Purraise
3,491
Location
Texas
What are you feeding?  Have you tried any prescription food for sensitive tummies such as Royal Canin Gastrointestinal HE?
 

cprcheetah

TCS Member
Top Cat
Joined
Nov 23, 2013
Messages
1,887
Purraise
149
Location
Bountiful, UTah
Both Science Diet and Royal Canin have a lot of ingredients in them that cats can have a hard time digesting (corn, wheat etc).  I would try to find a better brand of food and see if that helps.  Here are a couple of articles that can help:

http://www.thecatsite.com/a/how-to-compare-cat-foods-calculate-carbs-dry-matter-basis

http://www.thecatsite.com/a/choosing-the-right-food-for-your-cat-part-1

Personally I feed grain free (cats are carnivores and can not digest grains properly)

http://www.thecatsite.com/a/grain-free-cat-food-what-does-it-mean

.  This is a really excellent article on Giardia, it can take up to 6 months for it to completely get rid of sometimes.  http://healthypets.mercola.com/sites/healthypets/archive/2012/03/19/giardia-infection-on-pets.aspx 
 

stephanietx

TCS Member
Veteran
Joined
Dec 1, 2005
Messages
14,772
Purraise
3,491
Location
Texas
All I know is that the prescription RC Gastro HE cured my cat's diarrhea and that if we try him on a totally grain free diet, the diarrhea returns.
 

sarah ann

TCS Member
Alpha Cat
Joined
Mar 6, 2013
Messages
404
Purraise
69
Why don't you keep the new cat contained? When ever you introduce new cats you should quarantine them. I do this with all my new additions. . It keeps your older pets safe. Usually I put the new addition in the bathroom until they vet check clean. Diarrhea worm etc are extremely common in shelter pets. My last two kittens had coccidia and projectile diarrhea. My last puppy had both coccidia and Guardia.

Put trash bags and puppy pads on all floor surfaces. Keep the cat contained. My last kittens had the coccidia return 3 times. theye was locked in the bathroom for over a month.

Fenbendazole is available otc for goats. Just be sure to check the proper
dosage for cats.
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #14

fefuerzaamor

TCS Member
Thread starter
Young Cat
Joined
Mar 5, 2014
Messages
22
Purraise
1
Why don't you keep the new cat contained? When ever you introduce new cats you should quarantine them. I do this with all my new additions. . It keeps your older pets safe. Usually I put the new addition in the bathroom until they vet check clean. Diarrhea worm etc are extremely common in shelter pets. My last two kittens had coccidia and projectile diarrhea. My last puppy had both coccidia and Guardia.

Put trash bags and puppy pads on all floor surfaces. Keep the cat contained. My last kittens had the coccidia return 3 times. theye was locked in the bathroom for over a month.

Fenbendazole is available otc for goats. Just be sure to check the proper
dosage for cats.
Thanks everyone . When it comes to diet, I am a bit curious how it helps with the giardia?  Does it help her fight it better?  

Sarah Ann, my kitten has spent most of that time quarantined and was only allowed out when she was cleared after the first round.  She went back to the quarantine when the giardia returned.  I was going to let her roam the apartment after this past round of treatment but that didn't even last 3 days as I started noticing symptoms again so she is currently quarantined again.  Maia gets pretty anxious as she has so much energy and just wants to run around like crazy!  I am most concerned about my cat Cleo as she gets stressed when she cannot come into my room.  My room was her safe haven once my other cat passed away.  Cleo would stay in my room the entire time I went to work or left the house.  Her stress has definitely decreased but she is not completely out of the woods with the feline idiopathic cystitis.  Is Fenbendazole available over the counter in Canada or the US?   

Thank you all for your suggestions, it has been a very long couple of months!  We are all looking forward to returning to normal life (well more like praying!).
 

stephanietx

TCS Member
Veteran
Joined
Dec 1, 2005
Messages
14,772
Purraise
3,491
Location
Texas
I mentioned diet just in case his food is causing the problem if the giardia has indeed cleared up.
 

ldg

TCS Member
Veteran
Joined
Jun 25, 2002
Messages
41,310
Purraise
842
Location
Fighting for ferals in NW NJ!
Actually, if the giardia has put the internal environment of her intestines out-of-balance, food can make a real difference in her health. It won't help with the giardia, but given the giardia infection and antibiotics and panacur, these can precipitate IBD-like symptoms or IBD. She can have GI inflammation, which can cause leaky gut. What triggers any cat is different, but there is most definitely parasite-induced IBD.

cprcheetah provided some helpful links as re: diet.

But if you want to try another approach to treating the giardia or potential co-infections (like T. foetus) this is worth the shot: it's safe and easy and doesn't keep subjecting her body to toxins that can impair her immune system.

http://www.littlebigcat.com/health/giardia-natural-treatment-protocol/

If she still has diarrhea, you might want to consider using S. boulardii. If this works, then you know the problem isn't giardia, but side-effects from it or the meds. And to restore the healthy bacteria in her gut, a good L. acidophilus probiotic is a good idea. FYI, if you're going to continue using the metro, the S boulardii can be given with it: it is a yeast-based probiotic and not killed by the antibiotics the way a traditional bacterial probiotic is. Instructions for use are here: http://www.ibdkitties.net/Probiotics.html
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #17

fefuerzaamor

TCS Member
Thread starter
Young Cat
Joined
Mar 5, 2014
Messages
22
Purraise
1
Thank you both.  I wasn't sure how diet played a role in this so it all make a lot of sense with what you said.  I will definitely look at her diet in hopes that can help mend her sensitive digestive system.    

LDG: I saw that link about the use of enzymes to rid giardia as well.  I asked my vet if this was safe and he said he never heard of anyone using enzymes in this manner before.  Have you or anyone else here tried it?  I am just a little weary that he would only explain what to do but said he could not comment on most of the questions that were brought up by it. I really like the idea of using enzymes this way I just don't know how safe it is.
 

ldg

TCS Member
Veteran
Joined
Jun 25, 2002
Messages
41,310
Purraise
842
Location
Fighting for ferals in NW NJ!
Well... I'm not sure what to say. I guess it depends on your definition of "safe." The site, LittleBigCat is written and maintained by a vet, Dr. Jean Hofve. She has 20 years of experience in both traditional and alternative medicine. She's partnered with Jackson Galaxy, and has authored numerous books and ebooks on cat wellness and care.

Most traditional vets would have no reason to have heard of most alternative treatments for anything. Ask a holistic DVM and you may get a different answer.

:dk:

I only learned of this protocol a few weeks ago, seeking solutions for someone's kitty that all meds have failed. They're only on the first 8-day round, so I don't now what the results will be. It hasn't resolved the diarrhea yet, but the kitty wasn't diagnosed with giardia (or any parasites, though PCR testing was done), this was kind of a last-ditch effort, as a homemade, low-fat single protein source diet hasn't helped, various probiotics and supplements haven't helped, etc etc etc.

But Dr. Hofve discusses HER experience with it, and if you take the time to read through the comments, you'll see it has helped cats and dogs.

I can't imagine why plant-based enzymes would present any risk used in this manner for the duration discussed. These are digestive enzymes, used in cats all the time. The only difference is that instead of being put on food to predigest it, they're being delivered to an empty stomach so they can digest "proteins" in kitty's system. :dk:

In my estimation, it is far safer than metronadizole, which is neurotoxic, genotoxic, and potentially carcinogenic:

http://www.thecatsite.com/t/270801/...tro-is-genotoxic-and-potentially-carcinogenic

http://www.thecatsite.com/t/272498/...tibular-problem-has-your-cat-ever-taken-metro


I think it's a little odd that your vet would be willing to put her back on metro but not panacur. Panacur is far safer, and considered the first line of defense against giardia these days as many strains have become metro-resistant. You can see the issue with metro in the links above. Any vet worth their salt knows how dangerous metro is for anything other than short-course use.

:dk:
 
Last edited:

stephanietx

TCS Member
Veteran
Joined
Dec 1, 2005
Messages
14,772
Purraise
3,491
Location
Texas
@Carolina uses probiotics on her kitty who has chronic loose stools and diarrhea.  It has pretty much saved her cat's life.
 

ldg

TCS Member
Veteran
Joined
Jun 25, 2002
Messages
41,310
Purraise
842
Location
Fighting for ferals in NW NJ!
Actually, Carolina credits the raw diet with saving Bugsy's life. But when he had clostridium, she treated it with Saccharomyces boulardii, not antibiotics (her vet researched it and agreed she could go ahead and try it), as the last use of antibiotics put Bugsy in the 14-month diarrhea spin. :( It worked. The use of S boulardii (and acidophilus-based probiotics) are outlined in the link I provided above.

S boulardii is not indicated for giardia though.
 
Top