RELENTLESS Inappropriate urination in 5mth old kitten.

Hello everyone. Before I begin I would like to mention that I have spoken to our vet, read many articles and read the information in the sticky in this forum about innaproprate urination and can't seem to find anything that has helped. I am posting here in desperation as an absolute last resort!! I will try to make this as concise as possible.

 - In February we got a 10week old Ragdoll kitten to be an inside-only companion. My last ragdoll was run over because I foolishly ignored the breeders instruction to keep him inside-only (rags are rubbish at learning road safety!).

 - Immediately we had trouble with litter training. We use the same litter the breeder used (wood pellets) and while he ALWAYS uses the tray for defecation, he prefers to go just about anywhere in the house for urination. 

- Polo was underweight, dirty and in poor condition when he arrived, and as soon as he arrived the breeder stopped all communication with us which is very upsetting. We believe that poor treatment by the breeder may be the reason for his problems. Therefore there is no asking the breeder for help in our situation.

 - Polo is not yet neutered. Our vet said that since he would be inside only and not come in contact with any other cats we may aswell wait until he was 6 months old as this is safer and that way his growth is unaffected. As he is 5mnths now he wil be "snipped" next month some time. Let me stress that the issue here is DEFINITELY inappropriate urination, NOT spraying. He has had all his vaccs and is apparently healthy.

 - Polo started out by urinating one one particular couch. We tried cleaning the area with white vinegar, enzyme cleaners from the pet shop, and strong citrus stuff but he continues to go back. Eventually we covered the whole couch with plastic. This detered him for about a month and we thought we were making progress --  but the last few days he has started peeing ON the plastic (at least it's easy to clean up.

Wow, it seems you've done everything suggested with little improvement. I applaud you for hanging in there.
Luckily Ritz has always used the litter box--even when she had a UTI. But several things jumped out at me:
I read the ingredients of the food you're currently feeding Polo. Have you considered switching to wet food, high protein, limited/no grain?
Have drugs been discussed? There may be some underlying trauma you can't know about (shame on the breeder!) he is reacting to.
Good luck.

Wow, you've been very methodical in your approach, kudos for trying to help this little guy 

To me, it sounds more like litter avoidance rather than not knowing/remembering how to use a litter. This can often be caused by pain associated with the litter box, so they will go anywhere but the litterbox to avoid feeling the pain again.

Has the vet done a urinalysis to see if he has an infection? He could also have bladder inflammation which wouldn't show up in a urinalysis, but would show itself by litter avoidance. You could try giving him Cosequin which helps with bladder inflammation to see if it improves things.

Too bad the breeder isn't in contact. Perhaps she knows if he had an infection before you got him, which could now be gone, but left the behaviour behind.

Also, as Ritz mentioned, maybe something in his diet is giving him pain and that's manifesting through litter avoidance.

l hope this helps. Best of luck, and hugs for hanging in there 

Thank you for the replies!! 

Regarding the food, we have always fed our previous cats on dry-only -- is this bad? Polo used to get pretty bad tummy problems when we got him and always had the "runs". This is the only food we have found him on which he seems to be okay on -- we didn't try wet food though as we assumed it would be more likely to make him worse with his tummy problems.

I should explain that Polo has NEVER been to the vet. My partners mother is a vet so she brought all his vaccinations over and did them here, and gave him a look-over. She has never done an in depth check up though. I will talk to my partner about taking him in for a checkup.

What is cosequin? Is this something prescribed or you can just buy over the counter?

Cosequin is a nutritional supplement containing glucosamine, chondroitin, and manganese. lt's typically prescribed for arthritis, but also to support bladder health.

You can request it from the vet's but it will likely cost more. You can also order it from Amazon (among other online retailers) 

Thank you, I'll have a look. Never bought of Amazon before as I am from New Zealand.

Are there any types of litter which you recommend/don't recommend? Should I try changing his litter or keep as-is?

Anything could help. Perhaps a second litterbox with a different type of litter would pique his curiosity. 

On the food note, many on this forum prefer wet over dry as cats gain most of their moisture from their food. lt couldn't hurt to try a little canned - slowly of course, maybe a teaspoon per day gradually increasing over a couple of weeks. lf he's prone to the runs the slower the better.

First of all, I second the suggestion to have him thoroughly checked by the vet to rule out any urinary issues.  Secondly, I'd add some wet food to his diet just because it's better for them than dry.  I would add multiple litter boxes.  Sometimes with a kitty that young, when they have to go, they have to go NOW!  They're much like young children when being potty trained, so put a box in every room.  As he gets older, you can remove the extras.  You can use disposable cooking pans (aluminum).  I have used the 9" x 13" cake pans with good success with young kittens.  Also, I'm not sure you can get it there, but Dr. Elsey's Cat Attract Litter is good for litter avoidance issues.  They make one especially for kittens.  Be sure to clean all the areas where he's eliminated with a good enzymatic cleaner.

I used a "cat whisperer" about a year and a half ago.  She did a 2 hour phone consultation and it worked.  http://www.thecatbehaviorclinic.com/   I would recommend this before trying anything else.  It's time consuming and a little expensive, but it worked--from Day 1.

Good luck.

Has he been neutered?

CatMom2Wires said:

I used a "cat whisperer" about a year and a half ago.  She did a 2 hour phone consultation and it worked.  http://www.thecatbehaviorclinic.com/  I would recommend this before trying anything else.  It's time consuming and a little expensive, but it worked--from Day 1.

Good luck.

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So is a cat whisperer the same thing as a behaviorist? They did it by phone? Just curious...

As far as kitty's elimination issues: Has he been declawed by any chance? Probably not, but if so that could be his issue. If not, I agree that he somehow formed an association with either pain or fear and his litterbox.

Habits can be very hard to break in cats, unfortunately. I would get him in to the vet and see what they have to say.

Another thought, is that maybe he smells your previous cat in the apartment and is trying to "claim" his territory. Cats are non vocal communicators, so smells are HUGE to them. Regardless, much of what we say is purely speculation. Get him a clean bill of health first, and then go from there.

I will also add that Dr. Elsey's Kitten Attract Litter may help significantly.

Does the breeder have a website, or do you have any information I.e. papers, documentation, etc. If you do, you can report her/him to the association their kittens are registered with. I think it's required in associations here in the states, that they support new owners somewhat.

Hey, thanks for the replies again.

Andrya -- he has 2 litter boxes in the lounge and he used both of them previously (when I made him!). I changed one of them from wood pellets to clay stuff. As soon as I changed it he won't use it at all, not even for defecation. May try changing it to something else, and if he doesn't like it he's still got the wood pellet tray.

Stephanie -- as I mentioned in my post we have multiple trays in every room in the house. I doubt it's a matter of urgency considering he often wanders around for 20 minutes looking for somewhere nice to go before actually going. Also he's 5 months so not that young. Thanks for the litter suggestion! I have never heard for it but will look for it.

Cat-Mom -- thanks for the suggestion. I am not sure if wer have anything like that in NZ but I will investiagte.

Maple Syrup -- as I stated in the post he's not neutered yet but he will be done next month. This is DEFINITELY not spraying though. 

bigperm -- I found the breeder in the paper. She wasn't a registered breeder so nobody I can complain to really -- my own fault for not going through a registered/papered breeder but she seemed like such a nice lady I thought it would be OK. I never met her either since Polo was flown down from the north island (I'm in the south island).

He hasn't been declawed, fairly sure that cruel practice is illegal in my country (thank goodness!!). I have seen on some show on animal planet that declawed cats get sore feet from litter trays. Poor bubs!

He is our first cat in this apartment so no to smelling previous cats. Can't say whether the previous owners had a cat but we lived here for 18 months before we got him.

Wow! I definitely don't envy you. I can't imagine how I'd deal with a situation like that. I'm sure it's maddeningly frustrating.

You may have already touched on this, but I'd like to ask if he's punished in any way when he does this? I know at one point you had him in a cage to help him, and he took it as you were trying to punish him.

If you don't punish him (which no one should punish a cat further than a firm NO), maybe the previous owner did punish him when he went outside the box. In turn, he may have developed an anxiety around it.

A vet may be able to determine if he's suffering from PTSD type symptoms. Poor guy, and poor you, I sure hope everything gets better soon.

I think he needs to have a urine culture done, and I'd opt for one that would be the most detailed, to show what, if any, weird bacteria he might have picked up where he was born.

AmeliaNZ said:

 
Cat-Mom -- thanks for the suggestion. I am not sure if wer have anything like that in NZ but I will investiagte.

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I am sure she will do a call anywhere.  You'd just have to arrange it.  Email is free!

Yes, it's all done over the phone.  I had to fill out an extensive packet of paperwork and include photos prior to the consultation.  She then methodically went through things step by step on the phone and followed up with an emailed treatment plan and links to products she recommends.  It was great.

Hi Amelia,

Sorry I didn't see that you'd reported on the neuter.  The reason I ask is because we got our male Siamese at about 14 weeks, and at about the same time frame as you he started Peeing and sometimes Pooping in some nice choice spots - obsessively so on the peeing.  He still went to in the litter box, but loved going on some nice soft spots... beds, laundry, blankets etc.  From what I understand this tends to be an issue with siamese breeds, and I wonder because your ragdoll will have some of the same genes, that it could be true for them as well.  He was also not spraying... just peeing.

He did have a trauma early on - he was trying to get to us after we left in the car one day (he is very possessive of his family and hates to be left behind) and managed to pull the window down on his paw, and ended up in a splint for a few weeks. So I think that you are probably correct that something may have happened with the breeder.

We did a couple of things:

We got a Feliway diffuser and put it in the room where he went the most and seemed to be the starting point - our guest room. 

We kept all the bedroom doors closed so he couldn't access the beds.  We had to replace a mattress on our sons bed it was so bad!

At night we kept him confined to the kitchen / office and hallway area - where his food, litter and bed were placed - He would pee on our bed with us in it, so sleeping with us was out of the question. 

We did this for about 2 weeks - enough time for the diffuser to kick in fully.  We made sure we used the Natures miracle on all his spots to get the smell out.  We had him neutered during a splint change so there wouldn't be an 'Extra' trauma,  and then gave him access to the guest room while monitored - if we saw the signs of the need to pee on something - he would usually go sniffing for his spots, we'd just abandoned the trial re-entry for another few days. 

It was a bit of trial and error, but the Feliway seemed to do the trick in the guest room, and after about a month the bedrooms were opened as well.  Enough time away from his 'habitual pee spots' seemed to be a way for him to 'forget'.   We transferred the Feliway to the upstairs where the bedrooms are  to be on the safe side.  But he has not had a subsequent occurrence.

Good luck... you can pull through this.

Just a note on the food.  We've had our Kipper on Raw frankenprey since we got him.  I have read that Siamese (not sure about Ragdoll) are prone to kidney issues, and making sure they are hydrated is really important.  There is lots of info on raw food in the forums if you want to look.  We actually find it less expensive than high quality wet food - and it can be more convenient when you run out of meat purchased for him because we always have frozen meat in the freezer that can be thawed in a pinch. 

I forgot about the Feliway Diffuser. Good save @maplesyrup !!!

To the OP, the advice she has given sounds strong since she has been through the same issue. Especially, the part about closing doors and limiting his accessibility to the bedrooms, and with using an enzymatic cleaner on ALL his pee spots.

I may go ahead and get him fixed now, rather than later. Siamese supposedlu mature sexually before other cats. Even though no sex is available to him, he still has copious amounts of teenage hormones running through his veins. To a cat this means he's starting to assert his dominance i.e. claim things as his. I wouldn't worry about his size at this point. It won't make much difference.

Andrya said:

 
Anything could help. Perhaps a second litterbox with a different type of litter would pique his curiosity.

On the food note, many on this forum prefer wet over dry as cats gain most of their moisture from their food. lt couldn't hurt to try a little canned - slowly of course, maybe a teaspoon per day gradually increasing over a couple of weeks. lf he's prone to the runs the slower the better.

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My Mia has 2 litter boxes next to each other in an L shape. I did this trying to get her used to a new one however she had her own mindset and started using one to pee in and the other to poop in. lol  As long as she uses the box I'll keep it that way. 

I'd like to thank everyone for their help.

We toom Polo to the vet today and it turns out he has crystals in his urine which mske urination very painful for him. I feel awful that we didn't get him checked sooner but we assumed he was abused by his breeder.

He is having his kidneys checked tomorrow and if they are okay he will be put on anti inflammatories and may have to have a special diet.