Pros & Cons of Both Ground Raw & Frankenprey

I'm seriously considering transitioning all of my 8 cats to some form of raw diet. The more I read about commercial food, and the more serious health problems they're having (I've posted in cat health about 2 kitties with bladder stones, others with pancreatitis and sinus issues) and the higher my vet bill becomes (we're talking in the thousands now) I'm seriously wondering if the dry/wet food I purchase is the culprit.

I'm still researching what would work best for my babies, but I think it will come down to a ground mix or frankenprey. I'm hoping some (or many!) of you can give me some pros and cons of either or both methods! Just so I can weigh all the information with my clouder of cats (thank you, Sheldon Cooper of 'The Big Bang Theory' for teaching me a group of cats is called a clowder, LOL) and make an informed decision.

So, in your experiences, what are the pros and cons of either or both methods?

When talking about a 'grinder' what exactly are you referring to? I have a grain mill and a food grinder attachment for my KitchenAid mixer, is that the right kind?

Really looking forward to your responses!

Have you seen the stickied threads at the top of this subforum? Lots of great resources there for new raw feeders.

For ground raw, the big con is the upfront cost of a grinder. If you want to grind bone, what you have won't work. You need something like the Tasin. If you are going to feed boneless ground with some other kind of calcium source like bonemeal or eggshell, then the grinder attachment for the KitchenAid will work just fine for grinding meat and organs only. Ground is easier in the sense that after each batch is made, each meal is complete in and of itself. With frankenprey, you generally balance out the meals over the course of week although it is certainly possible to balance each meal. With frankenprey, you get some dental benefits from chewing meat and possibly bone if your cats will eat bone-in meals.

Honestly, while there are pros and cons to both methods, I am not sure I would say one is better than the other. It comes down to what you are comfortable with and ultimately what your cats prefer.

Frankenprey is closer to what the cat would find and kill themselves, and generally needs very little to no supplementation.  Grinding exposes more of the meat, liver, and etc. to oxidation so supplements are added to be sure the cat gets what they need after it has been stored a while.  I chose to grind the food because I don't have time to police feed times.  I literally have to put down bowls then leave a lot of the time.  Ground means that each cat gets the same thing regardless of musical bowls.  If I did Frankenprey, I could guarantee that Julie would eat most of everyone's liver, Mason would steal the choice pieces of meat, and Gadget would just grab whatever he could and run off.  I grind most of the meat and chunk some of it for dental health, so I get the best of both worlds and it fits my "feed and flee" lifestyle otherwise known as nursing school.

That all said, you can feed mostly ground for example, then one day a week give a snack of chicken wings alternating with plain meat meals.  You can feed about 15% of the diet as unbalanced, which comes out to one full day a week.  My cats are diarrhea-prone (IBS), so I like to chunk up a whole Cornish hen into smaller snack size portions for teeth cleaning and give it a couple of times a week.  I also get water-packed canned sardines for omegas (super easy to feed snack:  open and portion out!).

Now for grinding.  I use the Tasin TS-108.  http://www.onestopjerkyshop.com/tasin-ts-108-electric-meat-grinder-1/.  I've used it for 2 years feeding exclusively raw and it still looks new.  Absolutely buy the brush cleaning kit and I'd advise getting the silicone spray as well.  I bought the disinfectant initially, but since then I use 90% rubbing alcohol while cleaning it and rinse well to cut the fat from the metal.  I use antibacterial dish soap so I'm not too worried about disinfecting it.  Another tip:  DO NOT put off washing the grinder parts after grinding bone.  It WILL turn into cement and ruin the die of your grinder.  The die is replaceable, but why wait?  And by "wait" I mean wait until the next day to wash parts.  A few hours may be fine, but I at least start the washing process by filling the sink full of hot soapy water and let the parts sit in it a while.

The grain mil or a cheap dedicated coffee grinder may prove useful for grinding supplements, but I wouldn't use the KitchenAid mixer.  Bone would probably be too much.

As far as health problems, I dealt with raging diarrhea out of these 3 cats on canned.  I was picking litter boxes 4 times a day sometimes and using Febreeze like it was going out of style.  My asthma was flaring and my cats felt like garbage.  I put them on raw and their poop became solid in 24 hours.  I was sold!  I had to wait on the grinder so I used premixes until it came in.  I have not fed canned since and my cats are a picture of health.  People marvel when they come to my house that you cannot smell cat or the litter boxes...even when it has been days since I picked them.  Hey never said I was a role model and sometimes I eat then crash after clinical. 

Fair warning:  cats on raw turn into really playful cats again (they feel better) so put away breakables. 

I fed frankenprey/prey model raw. I agree with all the other posters in so far as pros/cons.
My situation might be somewhat different because I have only one cat and while her poop has always been normal she is a puker. I've learned that she cannot handle red or strongly flavored meat if she has not eaten for more than 8 or 10 hours (work schedule). With frankenprey, I can mix proteins in the same day: dark meat like beef and bone in the morning, and white meat in the evening like quail or chicken.

Thanks for the responses, please keep them coming!

Since I have 8 cats and a limited budget, I'm hoping to make this as easy as possible for me, and at the same time making sure they get the variety and nutrition they need. I'm not sure I'll have the budget/resources to provide things like quail or venison, but I'll do my best.

I'm thinking ground may be the way to go, with lots of chunks to chew on. I have a rotating crew as well. Luna wants to see what everyone else has in their bowl before she settles on one for herself. Some of them don't want to eat at the same time as others, and may wait 15 minutes or so and eat once it's quieter. If I do ground, I can make sure everyone gets what they need. Some of my little piggies, er I mean kitties, will eat anything. Others are rather picky, and I can see them picking out what they like and leaving the rest (and the varied nutrition they need) behind.

Any suggestions on which meats are good to start with? Ones that are the most palatable and that most cats tend to like? I don't think I'd get too fancy at first, and I need to see what's available in the area.

Also, I know everyone raves about the ts-180 grinder from Tasin. If I couldn't afford it at first, would a manual grinder work? Or would it be too difficult to grind the bones with a hand crank?

I feed Frankenprey style, here's the pros/cons from my perspective:

Pros

 - no grinder needed

 - no supplements needed

 - easily mix/match meats & organs for variety

 - large chunks for dental health & mental stimulation

Cons

 - pre-packaging still time consuming, and I use Foodsaver, so a little extra expense there.

 - since I package by the day for 5 animals, I still need to weigh out meals at meal time. 

   Not difficult because I've already done the math, but takes longer than just pulling out a ground patty.

 - bulk meat takes up freezer space... we actually bought a standing freezer and put it in the garage. 

For me, since the cons really only add up to "time", I feel that the pros outweigh them.  But some folks don't have the time, so it's better for them to go with something that is going to be "quicker".

Generally chicken is the starter meat because one, it's the cheapest and two, it's well-tolerated and liked by most cats. So, unless your cats have a chicken allergy I would start with that, boneless at first.

There is a member here, I think @aprilprey who uses a manual grinder, but it is quite a bit of work. I would probably stick with boneless ground with a calcium supplement until you can afford the Tasin.

Another option that might work for you is to use eggshells or MCHA for the calcium source instead of grinding bone.  That way you can grind all of the meat with your KitchenAid or simply cut it into strips with scissors. 

If you still want to feed bone but can't get a grinder yet, the Frankenprey feeders can help with how they feed bone.

peaches08 said:

 
Another option that might work for you is to use eggshells or MCHA for the calcium source instead of grinding bone.  That way you can grind all of the meat with your KitchenAid or simply cut it into strips with scissors. 

If you still want to feed bone but can't get a grinder yet, the Frankenprey feeders can help with how they feed bone.

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That's a very good idea! I would like them to get the benefits of bone but unless someone's willing to donate a grinder to me (if it's as good as everyone says, I certainly wouldn't donate MINE if I had one, ha ha!) I'd have to make do, and if my kitchen aid would do it minus the bones, I may try that.

I would just want to make sure that they got the nutrition and benefits from bone. :-)

8whiskers said:

 
That's a very good idea! I would like them to get the benefits of bone but unless someone's willing to donate a grinder to me (if it's as good as everyone says, I certainly wouldn't donate MINE if I had one, ha ha!) I'd have to make do, and if my kitchen aid would do it minus the bones, I may try that.

I would just want to make sure that they got the nutrition and benefits from bone. :-)

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MCHA is freeze-dried bone.  I don't know if that contains all the marrow and all, and I can't say that it is the exact same as feeding bone nutrition-wise...maybe @mschauer can help...but plenty of cats are NOT eating bone and are fine.  Mine ARE eating bone and doing great, but when I do pork or beef I use eggshells since the bone is too tough for my grinder.  Not to mention, Heaven forbid one of them ends up in kidney failure then I need to get them off bone and onto eggshells anyway so at least I know they'll eat it.  Eggshell calcium is incredibly easy to make at home by the way.  Practically free too.

Or you can feed chicken wing flats.  You may be surprised at their ability to bust through raw bone.  When I was first feeding raw, these cats were climbing my legs/behind and screaming as I was deboning meat.  To literally "shut them up" I through a bone on the floor.  Within seconds they could bust through a raw chicken thigh bone.  Again I'm no role model and thankfully no one got choked.  Once they realized that raw food was what they were getting from here on out, they let me make food in peace.  Usually.  Sometimes when thawing out a package it gets removed from the sink.  Sillies!