How to achieve weight loss?

jman_in_mn · Mar 10, 2014

Just read a few pages of Mickey's thread, what a great story. I'm in a weight predicament situation in my household and my wife and I can't really figure out what to do. We live in a condo w/ two cats- 20lb and a 23lb. They've been on the dry dietary food that the vet recommends for like 2 years and we mix in some Wellness dry as well. Obviously its not working. We don't know what to do in order to get weight loss results. My biggest concern is that the cats are too sedentary. How do you fit in exercise when the cats aren't in the mood? Also, how do people deal with the food begging in the middle of the night? Our cats will meow and paw at the bed like crazy, literally destroying a good nights' rest, making the work day difficult, and everybody ends up with stress.

I just don't know what to do or where to go for help.

alisa brown · Mar 10, 2014

I just had my cat on a diet for about 2 months, he looks amazing now and runs all over the house, where before he used to just lay around.

I had to pull up all food, including the dogs all day and feed them in separate rooms. My cat would steal food from his sisters bowls. He was removed from Dry food completely for that 2 months and was given half a 5.5 oz can of cat food at breakfast and at dinner. He acted like he was starving and would wake me up at night too.

I started giving him about 1/8 of a cup of dry food before we went to be and that seems to satisfy him, so far so good, he is still healthy and a nice normal weight now. I have been leaving dry food before I leave for work but only a cup for all of the cats to share. If I leave more he will sit there and eat the entire bowl.

Maybe give them a had full of dry before bed or some lean treats.

As for exercise that is probably difficult in an condo but I used to tack string to the ceiling in 10 foot intervals down my hallway with cat nip mice attached. When the cats walked by (or one us us) the mice would swing and the cats would run up and down the hall playing with them.

I made the string long enough that the mice hung about a foot off the ground but you can experiment depending on your cats height.

Good luck and keep us posted.

mschauer · Mar 10, 2014

jman_in_MN said:
Just read a few pages of this thread, what a great story. I'm in a weight predicament situation in my household and my wife and I can't really figure out what to do. We live in a condo w/ two cats- 20lb and a 23lb. They've been on the dry dietary food that the vet recommends for like 2 years and we mix in some Wellness dry as well. Obviously its not working. We don't know what to do in order to get weight loss results. My biggest concern is that the cats are too sedentary. How do you fit in exercise when the cats aren't in the mood? Also, how do people deal with the food begging in the middle of the night? Our cats will meow and paw at the bed like crazy, literally destroying a good nights' rest, making the work day difficult, and everybody ends up with stress.

In my opinion the primary factor in cat weight control is the same as in human weight control: calories. To lose weight they have to consume fewer calories than they burn. If you don't know the actual calorie content of the foods you are feeding you must be consistent with the foods yoou feed and with the quantity you feed so that you consistently feed the same number of calories even though you don't know what that number of calories is. This may mean measuring the food.

Switching to an all wet or mostly wet diet is probably helpful. Dry foods are just too far off from any resemblance to a food a cats should eat. The moisture content by itself is beneficial. Some studies suggest that cats fed an exclusively dry diet may be chronically dehydrated. I know when I am dehydrated it adversely affects my energy level. I don't find it hard to believe that might be true of cats also.

Increasing how many calories they burn can certainly help with weight loss. If you can do that, great. But it can be difficult to convince a cat to get moving. Mickey is not a very active cat. Despite that I was able to get him to lose at least 1 oz a week, usually more, in 50 of the 53 weeks he was with me.

I fed Mickey 3 times a day to keep him from getting too hungry between meals. He is with his adoptive family now but is still on a weight loss diet. His new parents tried feeding him just 2 times a day and found that he acted very hungry between meals. Once they went to feeding him 3 times a day he was fine.

Many cats are pretty insistent about being fed early in the morning even if they aren't on a weight loss diet. Even with feeding 3 times a day you may want to look into getting an automatic feeder that opens at 3 or 4 AM. You can also close them out of your bedroom at night. If they scratch at the door you can use a product called SssCat to keep them away from the door.

I would recommend first switching them to an all wet diet. Don't worry about weight lose during this transition. Let them get used to their new food before you start trying to get them to lose weight.

How old are your cats?

jman_in_mn · Mar 10, 2014

mschauer said:
In my opinion the primary factor in cat weight control is the same as in human weight control: calories. To lose weight they have to consume fewer calories than they burn. If you don't know the actual calorie content of the foods you are feeding you must be consistent with the foods yoou feed and with the quantity you feed so that you consistently feed the same number of calories even though you don't know what that number of calories is. This may mean measuring the food.

Switching to an all wet or mostly wet diet is probably helpful. Dry foods are just too far off from any resemblance to a food a cats should eat. The moisture content by itself is beneficial. Some studies suggest that cats fed an exclusively dry diet may be chronically dehydrated. I know when I am dehydrated it adversely affects my energy level. I don't find it hard to believe that might be true of cats also.

Increasing how many calories they burn can certainly help with weight loss. If you can do that, great. But it can be difficult to convince a cat to get moving. Mickey is not a very active cat. Despite that I was able to get him to lose at least 1 oz a week, usually more, in 50 of the 53 weeks he was with me.

I fed Mickey 3 times a day to keep him from getting too hungry between meals. He is with his adoptive family now but is still on a weight loss diet. His new parents tried feeding him just 2 times a day and found that he acted very hungry between meals. Once they went to feeding him 3 times a day he was fine.

Many cats are pretty insistent about being fed early in the morning even if they aren't on a weight loss diet. Even with feeding 3 times a day you may want to look into getting an automatic feeder that opens at 3 or 4 AM. You can also close them out of your bedroom at night. If they scratch at the door you can use a product called SssCat to keep them away from the door.

I would recommend first switching them to an all wet diet. Don't worry about weight lose during this transition. Let them get used to their new food before you start trying to get them to lose weight.

How old are your cats?

Both cats are 6 1/2 yrs old. They're currently eating the Royal Canin Calorie Control dry food with Lotus mixed in. At night we supplement the dry with Wellness wet grain free.

You've nailed the problem cause right on the head- calories and activity. I know maybe 2 yrs ago we were pretty good about measuring and counting calories. Somehow since then and now we've let them run over us with their nighttime antics and begging. And of course the easiest solution was to give them a "snack" of dry food to curb the hunger.

My wife and I were just talking and I think we are going to pickup several small wet food cans today in a fact-finding mission to see which kinds they like. I should have mentioned this before- both are very finicky wet food eaters. Are there any brands to absolutely avoid?? After reading Mickey's journal i'm sitting here thinking "I can't believe I'm going to try and feed my cats Fancy Feast!?!?"

One other thing that has been an issue, the 23lb cat Marvin gets bad anxiety when he's hungry especially when we are not around. So he basically cleans himself nonstop and does so to the point where he has frequent hair balls. So that is the trade-off trying to get him on a regimen; his calorie intake gets corrected but his stress level goes up.

mschauer · Mar 10, 2014

jman_in_MN said:
My wife and I were just talking and I think we are going to pickup several small wet food cans today in a fact-finding mission to see which kinds they like. I should have mentioned this before- both are very finicky wet food eaters. Are there any brands to absolutely avoid?? After reading Mickey's journal i'm sitting here thinking "I can't believe I'm going to try and feed my cats Fancy Feast!?!?"

The Fancy Feast pate (Classics) are actually a pretty decent food. And they are generally well liked by cats. Of course there is no food that every cat will like. I was extremely fortunate with Mickey in that he will eat almost anything. As far as foods to avoid I would say to avoid anything that is very high in fat (EVO) or very low in fat (Weruva). High fat means high calorie but fat helps with providing a feeling of satiety A food with calorie content in the range of 30-38 per oz is OK in my book with 33 being my "sweet spot". Look at the guaranteed analysis on a can of fancy Feast Classic to get an idea of what it should be. Here is a good list of foods with the calorie information:

http://www.catinfo.org/docs/FoodChartPublic9-22-12.pdf

Edit: I just looked at that list and realized that Dr. P didn't include many of the FF Classic foods and most of the ones she does include are fish based. I wouldn't feed a lot of fish based foods to a cat. There several FF Classics that aren't fish based though. You might have to look elsewhere online for calorie information for them though.

One other thing that has been an issue, the 23lb cat Marvin gets bad anxiety when he's hungry especially when we are not around. So he basically cleans himself nonstop and does so to the point where he has frequent hair balls. So that is the trade-off trying to get him on a regimen; his calorie intake gets corrected but his stress level goes up.

I don't think they should ever be hungry enough to cause them anxiety. That would make me think they aren't getting adequate nutrition. I would suggest backing completely off trying to get them to lose weight and just get them on a wet diet. Don't even worry if they continue to gain weight during the transition. After they are comfortable with a wet diet figure out how much food they can eat without gaining weight. Then reduce their daily ration by no more 1/2 oz each. Stay at that level for at least 2 weeks. If they don't start losing at that amount, decrease by no more than 1/2 oz again. With Mickey I calorie counted so that I could use a variety of foods and know how much to feed despite the foods having different calories content. With him I reduced his calories by no more than 10% at a time.

jman_in_mn · Mar 10, 2014

So if i'm reading the chart right, Fancy Feast Classics Chicken is 91 kcals/3 oz.? So if I was targeting 180 cals/day that's two of those cans per day per cat. How do you deal with unfinished wet food when you're trying to make sure they eat the exact calorie amount? I get that a hungry cat should finish it no problem but there are times that the bowl will still have some left... you usually save it for the next meal that day??

mschauer · Mar 10, 2014

jman_in_MN said:
So if i'm reading the chart right, Fancy Feast Classics Chicken is 91 kcals/3 oz.? So if I was targeting 180 cals/day that's two of those cans per day per cat.

Yup. Do be careful about how much rounding you do when calculating calories. 1 or 2 calories don't matter but you might be surprised at how easily rounding down can result in feeding 10% more than intended.

How do you deal with unfinished wet food when you're trying to make sure they eat the exact calorie amount? I get that a hungry cat should finish it no problem but there are times that the bowl will still have some left... you usually save it for the next meal that day??

Well, I never had that problem with Mickey, but I would throw out what isn't eaten by the next meal time. If they consistently don't finish it then either you're putting too much food down or they are being fussy. If it is the latter you can't let them go consistently with not eating enough. Dr. P also has tips for transitioning a cat to wet food:

http://www.catinfo.org/docs/TipsForTransitioning1-14-11.pdf

mrsgreenjeens · Mar 10, 2014

Along those same lines, there are several canned foods that are quite high in protein, but very low calories, so you could feed them more than 2 cans per day, (even up to 3+ (3 oz) spread out over the day which may make them feel like they are eating very well, yet still maintaining low calories. And high protein, low carbs (the foods I am speaking of are also low in carbs, is a great way for cats to lose weight. Our Vet calls it the "Catkins" diet

. More importantly, high protein, low carb is what is most natural for cats, and that Royal Canin Calorie Control is almost 35% carbs. I also have a little porker, and the diet food did NOT work for him. Switching to controlled portions of canned (and eventually raw) is what is working for him.

Anyway, MOST Weruva, Tiki Cat and BFF are high protein, low in fat and low carbs. So are Soulistic in Gelee (only those), Petco's brand, which are actually made by Weruva. I just discovered Natural Balance Catatoulle, which does have some vegies which I'm not too fond of, but it's only got 45 cals per 3 oz can. Still falls into the decent parameters above though, even with those vegies.

Oh yes, I forgot to add that to get my heavier guy to exercise, I toss 100% freeze dried chicken or turkey or whatever protein treats broken into very small pieces as far as I can toss them (down the hall usually) and make him run for them. He enjoys it and at treat time is always waiting for me to do it. If he doesn't hussle and outrun his brother, then he misses out, so he has learned to really run for them

(if he doesn't manage to get any, then of course I will give him one or two, but not too many, as these are calorie laden, but pure protein, NO carb) And sometimes I just walk around with the bag of these treats in my hand and they follow me all around, so they get their exercise following me all around. Then, naturally, I give them a couple

jman_in_mn · Mar 11, 2014

So far so good. Started transitioning last night to mostly wet food (and eventually to all wet). Both guys didn't like the Fancy Feast, but of course. So we went to their wheelhouse and they gobbled up the Wellness Chicken + Herring. Supplemented that with the dry that they are used to and the lighter cat Izzy ate merely a fraction of what he usually does (1/3 of a 1/3 cup... 26 cals maybe?) and that was in the middle of the night bridge that he seems to require. Hopefully one day I can eliminate that. The larger cat Marvin was at the vet all day long for comprehensive exam and teeth cleaning so he didn't have much of a normal appetite yet... we'll see how he does in the coming few days.

I will say this, it does seem like the wet food is more filling when they consume it frequently (i.e. more than once a day)

mrsgreenjeens · Mar 11, 2014

Gosh, I'm surprised they didn't like Fancy Feast....most cats can't resist it. Of course they like the fattening stuff (YOUR cats

) Found another one today that my extremely picky eater likes, and it's around 65 calories per 3 oz can. Nutro Natural Choice sliced Chicken and Tuna. Low fat and low carb too

AND, no carrageenan!

mschauer · Mar 11, 2014

Great start!

Hopefully it will continue to go well.

jman_in_mn · Mar 11, 2014

mrsgreenjeens said:
Gosh, I'm surprised they didn't like Fancy Feast....most cats can't resist it. Of course they like the fattening stuff (YOUR cats

) Found another one today that my extremely picky eater likes, and it's around 65 calories per 3 oz can. Nutro Natural Choice sliced Chicken and Tuna. Low fat and low carb too

AND, no carrageenan!

The Wellness isn't too bad, 189 per 5.5oz can, especially compared to the Fancy Feast Classic chicken it's pretty close. I'll be aiming to try other brands with better ingredients once they are used to the new diet

mschauer · Mar 11, 2014

jman_in_MN said:
mrsgreenjeens said:

Gosh, I'm surprised they didn't like Fancy Feast....most cats can't resist it. Of course they like the fattening stuff (YOUR cats

) Found another one today that my extremely picky eater likes, and it's around 65 calories per 3 oz can. Nutro Natural Choice sliced Chicken and Tuna. Low fat and low carb too

AND, no carrageenan!

Click to expand...

The Wellness isn't too bad, 189 per 5.5oz can, especially compared to the Fancy Feast Classic chicken it's pretty close. I'll be aiming to try other brands with better ingredients once they are used to the new diet

That's 34 kcal/oz. Pretty good I'd say.

m and js mom · Mar 18, 2014

I had the same problem with my female kitty. Longer hair, lots of licking/cleaning and fur balls galore. My vet gave me a mild laxative and give her a "lick" out of the tube every morning after her breakfast. This has been doing the trick for the past 5 years. She passes everything and only coughs up a furball once a year or so. Her BMs are completely normal.

jman_in_mn · Mar 25, 2015

Haven't updated my own thread in quite some time... My large Norwegian Forest cat continues to struggle with weight. Tried the all-wet diet some time ago and he wouldn't eat all of his portion. I'd love to try it again but i'm stuck on the consumption problem. Do you have a special bowl to use? What happens is that the wet food doesn't get all into his belly but instead along the edges of the bowl. At some point Marvin decides he's done. So he shorts himself on the calorie allotment. With dry food he's able to eat up all the crunchies no problem. That's my dilemma...

Any bowl tips? Do I need to simply scoop out the excess and manually feed it to him?? On my last leg with his weight problem, I do not want him to suffer any longer as an obese cat.

mschauer · Mar 25, 2015

jman_in_MN said:
Any bowl tips? Do I need to simply scoop out the excess and manually feed it to him?? On my last leg with his weight problem, I do not want him to suffer any longer as an obese cat.

I don't use bowls. I use plates. I don't know if using plates will help Marvin finish his food but might be worth a try.

catpack · Mar 25, 2015

A few thoughts....

Rather than a bowl, have you tried feeding him on a plate/saucer instead?

Also, what percentage of his food is he not finishing? If it's just a little bit around the edges, I would worry about it.

How is the weight-loss going overall? Are they losing at a steady rate?

jman_in_mn · Mar 25, 2015

CatPack said:
A few thoughts....

Rather than a bowl, have you tried feeding him on a plate/saucer instead?

Also, what percentage of his food is he not finishing? If it's just a little bit around the edges, I would worry about it.

How is the weight-loss going overall? Are they losing at a steady rate?

Been using shallow bowls, haven't tried a plate. The cats seem to lick the food instead of "eating" it which I think why it's never always consumed. Once in awhile its just along the edges, most of time its slicked up on the rim of the bowl. Has to be 30% being left in the bowl and that's alot of calories they're losing out on.

Weight loss has been weight gain for Marvin. He's at 26 lbs. Oddly, and i'm very surprised by this, his joints and health are outstanding, even for a cat his size. And that's great supportive news but I'd like him to live along time and i'm fed up with his weight problem. Still cannot get into a groove or find that plan that has him losing back to a healthy weight. Sadly I had to abandon the all-wet diet last year because of the vomiting furball issue and the lack of sleep my wife & I were getting. It was affecting our lives too greatly. Obviously I chose poorly because going back to all-Royal Canin-crunchies packed on a couple pounds for Marvin. It's left me disappointed and embarrassed that I can't even take care of a feline properly. Sometimes I think I just wasn't cut out to be a cat guardian.

catpack · Mar 25, 2015

Are you free-feeding the dry? Even on a dry-only diet, set meals times are almost always necessary for weight-loss to occur. There are timed feeders that can do a night-time feeding if necessary.

Have you considered changing dry foods to a higher protein, lower carb?

Do you have play sessions with Marvin on a daily basis? If he has very little activity, his calorie allotment will be less than the manufacturer suggestions.

Also, at what weight are you feeding Marvin for?

jman_in_mn · Mar 25, 2015

CatPack said:
Are you free-feeding the dry? Even on a dry-only diet, set meals times are almost always necessary for weight-loss to occur. There are timed feeders that can do a night-time feeding if necessary.

Have you considered changing dry foods to a higher protein, lower carb?

Do you have play sessions with Marvin on a daily basis? If he has very little activity, his calorie allotment will be less than the manufacturer suggestions.

Also, at what weight are you feeding Marvin for?

Not exactly free feeding. More like 5-6 small meals. Food is taken from a measured container filled each day, each cat with their own. The reason small meals are used is because both cats have had tendencies to not eat their full size regular portion in one sitting and would cannibalize each other's food if they were still hungry. Resulted in one cat getting more food than the other. Smaller meals works because they fully eat the smaller portion. We just have to feed more often and yes, it does set a bad precedent.

Play sessions aren't happening so much. Marvin is sedentary except for when he gets these bursts of energy. He'll play but not for very long. It's tough and frustrating

Weight being aimed for? I don't know. Under twenty pounds. Weight loss is what I'm aiming for... Determining a target has been tough because the weight loss plan has been tough. I just want to have success.

How to achieve weight loss?

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