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Hey, Im new here :) Glad to meet you all

post #1 of 36
Thread Starter 
Hey everyone, how are you all doing? I just found this site, and Im really into cats. I own an intact russian blue male how about you?
peace all,
post #2 of 36
welcome to the site. it can be addicting and of great peace and support. where in utah? my boyfriend is from there, he loves it and is adjusting to Seattle rain ever so slowly. do you have cat pix of your 'blue? are you going to breed at all or? what is his personality like? how old? we all love to hear about these things! my oldest, Sasha, was supposed to be a russian blue butit didn't pop out that way - hence the Russian boy's name, Sasha.
Happy Fall to you.
post #3 of 36
Welcome to the site! Russian Blues are one of my all time favorite breeds. They are SUCH beautiful cats!!!
post #4 of 36
welcome to the site!
post #5 of 36
post #6 of 36
Welcome to this site
post #7 of 36
Welcome to TCS! Do you plan on breeding this beautiful breed?

post #8 of 36
Thread Starter 
Thanks for the welcome everyone. I dont have any pics of him right now, but Ill have some as soon as I get my dig. camera up and running. Hes about 4.5-5 years old, and has a real good personality. Very human friendly, he just drools some due to a misaligned tooth. (Im not the original owner)
I dont have the time or anything to breed him and such, as I have school things to tend to, but who knows.
Also, if anyone knows:
Im not 100% sure about his bloodlines, but Ive noticed lately that his tail seems to have a type of ring pattern on it. Not a true blue?
Either way hes still a great cat. Mabye when I get pics up you all can help.
Oh and Im out of South Jordan, Utah. Just south of SLC. I was up in Seattle just about 5 months ago for a car. That rain really gets on my nerves. What area is he from?
-Peace out all,
post #9 of 36
Welcome to The Cat Site. I have 2 cats, a DSH and a Burmese. Someday I would like to have a Russian Blue.
post #10 of 36
He's from American Fork, just south of SLC, too. He loved it there, he moved here to be w/his Dad, who lives 5 minutes from us. He's having a hard time with the darkness and rain this year, it's really bad this year, all the rain. You take care and welcome again to you.
Freddie fur
Sasha fur
SiSi forever loved but not forgotten
post #11 of 36
Thread Starter 
Yeah the rain can be really depressing sometimes. Ive got some friends down in American Fork. I like that area, but its a bit to sparse for me. Well good luck with Seattle

post #12 of 36
Welcome Cougar. I love Russian Blue's, although I don't own one myself. I have 2 Siamese: 1 Blue Point, and 1 Seal Point. I also have a 6 month old Bengal kitten, and a 3 1/2 year Pomeranian dog.

I'm from Los Angeles, CA, but I think Utah is one of the most beautiful states I've been to.
post #13 of 36
Thread Starter 
Hey, I love siamese cats. Theyre awesome. Is that a Bengal Tiger kitten? If so, id love to get some pics.

post #14 of 36
No, it's just a Bengal cat. They originally bred Domesticated cats with the Asian Leopard cat to create the Bengals. Once they are 4 generations away from the Asian Leopard cat they are considered regular domesticated cats, but with the markings and general look of the Asian Leopard cat. I have pictures of him and my Siamese on the Fur Pictures section.
post #15 of 36
Hi Brandon, I mean no offence or not picking on you when asking this question but how come your boy is still intact?

He sounds beautiful! Russians are such graceful animals!

I hope you're having a lovely day!

post #16 of 36
Thread Starter 
No problem, to be honest Im very against the spaying/neutering of animals and I think a few people on here might have oppisite views on it, but lets not start that argument right now.

post #17 of 36
Actually, Brandon, the site itself is VERY pro-spay/neuter.

Refering to Rule #2:

Please make sure to spay or neuter your cat. Unless you are a professional breeder and your cat is part of a professional breeding program, please spay/neuter your cats before they reach sexual maturity (at the age of 4-6 months). By spaying and neutering you enhance your cat's quality of life and improve his or her health. You are also proving your love for cats because in acting as a responsible pet owner you are minimizing the problem of cat overpopulation. Please read this article and don't hesitate to ask for more information in the forums.

I would hope that you would be open to a different viewpoint, and if you will not change your mind (regardless of the 8-12 million companion animals that are killed each year in the US alone because of the rampant overpopulation problem), please respect our standpoint as an educational website. You will see us encourage every person here to spay and neuter unless the animal is being kept by a legitimate and responsible breeder.

I do not mean to start an argument with you, and you do not need to respond to this if you don't want to, but I did want to let you know what our ideals are.
post #18 of 36
Thread Starter 
I understand where your coming from, and I am by no means here to push my beliefs on anyone. I assumed the site would be pro spay/neuter because most cat related orginizations are.
Ill read up on the article since Im not to well educated on the subject, but I doubt it will sway my current position.
Just know that I do respect this website as and educational one, and feel free to tell people whatever you want. I have no intentions of starting my own little cult

Thanks for the responses everyone,

post #19 of 36
Thread Starter 
Well I read that article you posted and one thing in specific bothered me:
Will my cat be deprived of manliness/the experience of motherhood?
Please don't make the mistake of thinking about your cat in terms of human experience. Cats are not bothered by our social concepts of gender and gender-specific experiences.
How did they come to that conclusion?
This is not the reason Im against it, I just though it sounded like they were putting words in the cats mouth...
post #20 of 36
Hi Brandon! Thank you for taking the time to read the article.

That point was included in the article because it is one argument many people (usually males) use to defend their anti-spay neuter position. The statement in the article "Please don't make the mistake of thinking about your cat in terms of human experience. Cats are not bothered by our social concepts of gender and gender-specific experiences." is included not to put words in your cat's mouth, so to speak, but simply because it's the truth. To place that value judment on a cat is to put words in his mouth, and as I'm sure you're aware, it's called "projection." Any animal behaviorist can tell you, and all studies on the subject indicate that the male/female role in the animal world is a genetic and hormonal one, not a "value judgment" or a social "role" learned like in the human world.

Our cats are into alpha status and territory - it doesn't matter if they're male or female. The dominant cat will become alpha - whether it's a 20 pound male or a 3.5 pound female. Being spayed or neutered won't affect that outcome. Being spayed or neutered will only affect the level of aggression in a multi-cat household (by lowering it), and decrease (probably to non-existent) the incidents of territory marking and fight wounds.

As you note, most cat sites are pro spay/neuter. In fact - I'm not aware of any that aren't. Even the Cat Fanciers' Association, the preeminent association for Breeders in the U.S., promotes spay/neuter for non-breeders. The issue is not only one of homeless cats. Even if you keep your lovely Russian Blue inside only - he will live a longer, healther life if neutered. Study after study have proven this - if you would like links to actual studies on the subject, please let me know and we'll provide them for you.

I certainly don't mean to lecture. It's just that I conduct research for a living (it doesn't happen to be animal related), and when I tackle a subject, I really delve into it. And after the weeks of research I put into the topic of spaying and neutering, I was able to come to only one conclusion. If not to prevent unwanted pregnancies, spaying or neutering our pet cats should be done for longevity, health and behavior reasons.

post #21 of 36
Thread Starter 
Thanks for responding LDG. Yes, if you could provide some websites that I can check into to learn more, it would be greatly appreciated.
My beliefs are based on the thought that humans and cats thinks similarly on this subject, so any information (from respectable sources of course)is welcome if it will help me see from other points of view.
Im no animal behaviorist, so its hard for me to visualize how a cat thinks.
This is what I would like to understand: "Any animal behaviorist can tell you, and all studies on the subject indicate that the male/female role in the animal world is a genetic and hormonal one, not a "value judgment" or a social "role" learned like in the human world.
Just doesnt work for me right now.

Thanks again!

post #22 of 36
One thing to consider as well is that there are many many human women in this world who have never had children (myself included). The fact that I have never given birth does not make me any less of a woman than those who have given birth. The same goes for men. There are many men out there who have medical conditions that keep testosterone from being produced in correct amounts. These men are no less a man than those with lots of testosterone. So...if you want to think of cats in human terms, consider my argument.

But....also remember that the brains of cats are very small. The parts of the brain that do all of the higher level thinking about things such as sexual identity are almost nonexistant in cats, but are HUGE in humans. So, biologically speaking, it is next to impossible that cats would be cognitively sophisticated enough to worry about being manly or womanly.
post #23 of 36
Many people think along the same lines as Brandon does. It is how we are developed to think and so we assume that other creatures must also have the same line of reasoning and emotions. But I would counter that cats do not. I would say they feel grief over the loss of their littermates, or parent, or feline friend or owner, but not the loss of their testicles or ovaries. I would counter that they get mad at times when we leave them for a period with someone else and come back home. But if they were open to the same sort of emotions that we as human experience, they would be easier to figure out and live with. They don't have the same emotions as we do, it is our desire for them to have this.

To spay and neuter is a responsibility that all pet owners must make and we hope all of them do. It does prolong the life of the cat, mellow behavior and other than one day of discomfort, the cats come out just fine. To keep an intact male inside 24/7 especially during mating season will prove to be difficult. Letting him outside to roam will put him in contact with other Toms much tougher than he is, and could ultimately wind up with you having a missing cat or one that drags himself home badly injured. It simply is not worth it- trust me I have lived the nightmare. All my cats are now spayed and neutered as soon as is humanely possible. Keeping your male intact will also start spraying behavior. Have you ever smelled full male cat pee? It's evil and it goes everywhere. Once the spraying starts, it will not stop not even after neuter (usually). It is instinct that drives them, not need and certainly there is no thought in his head that he has to prove his manliness.
post #24 of 36
Thread Starter 
Originally posted by lotsocats
The same goes for men. There are many men out there who have medical conditions that keep testosterone from being produced in correct amounts. These men are no less a man than those with lots of testosterone. So...if you want to think of cats in human terms, consider my argument.
True but they have lots of drugs, and things for people in those situations. Id say the general population of males would go for these drugs too if they were lacking in natural testosterone.
Hissy, thanks for the reply. Mabye Im just thinking about this subject too much Yeah my cat sprays and ummmm... eek.
Thanks for the replies,
post #25 of 36
Just to address the statements of lotsocats and the issue you just brought up, Brandon, my question is - are catholic priests less "male" because they are celibate their entire lives?

I think the point of this discussion is to make it a bit clearer that "male" and "female" are socially learned roles and it is we that place value judgments on them. Personally, I think just because a person doesn't have sex doesn't mean they're less male or female.

But, to address studies. I will have more as I'm in the process of collecting them for you. Unfortunately, it appears that much of what you're interested in is not available on line, so I'll only be able to provide the citations, and you'll have to head to your local library or college library to find the materials themselves.

Here is a study by the Winn-Feline foundation, a non-profit organization established by the Cat Fancier's Association, Inc. to support health-related studies benefiting cats.


If you want to read the full report and not just the study, this is the reference for it:

Developmental and Behavioral Effects of Prepubertal Gonadectomy. Mark S. Bloomberg, DVM, MS; W.P. Stubbs, DVM; D.F. Senior, BVSc; Thomas J. Lane, BS, DVM; University of Florida at Gainesville. Funded by the Winn Feline Foundation, February 1991. Continuation funded February 1992. A progress report on a study funded by The Winn Feline Foundation (Summary prepared by Diana Cruden, Ph.D. 1995/1996)

Here are links to a study on the difference between gender and sex. Although this addresses humans, it does address the higher-brain function required to make the distinction between the biology of the "sex" of a being and the process of gender-identity of a being.


Here is an article by a well-published researcher, Sarah Hartwell. A section of this article addresses the question of whether or not neutering is merely an attempt to "denature" cats:


Unfortunately, the Journal of the American Veterinary Medical Association (JAVMA) is not availble online to non-subscribers, but it is one of the most respected in the field of animal medical issues. Appropriate publication:

Lieberman LL. A case for neutering pups and kittens at two months of age. Journal of the American Veterinary Medical Assoc Vol 191(5);518-521, 1987.

Theran P. Early-age neutering of dogs and cats. Journal of the American Veterinary Medical Assoc Vol 202(6);914-917, 1993.

Re: neutering's affect on the "manhood" of your cat:

Root MV, Johnston SD, Johnston GR, Olson PN. The effect of prepuberal and postpuberal gonadectomy on penile extrusion and urethral diameter in the domestic cat. Veterinary Radiology & Ultrasound Vol 37(5);363-366, 1996.

More studies and references to come.

post #26 of 36
You might like this site, too. It's not a research study, but it is by a vet.

post #27 of 36
Thread Starter 
Woah! thats a lot of information! Well Ill get to reading it now
Oh and about the catholic priests: I think its different for them since what they do is by choice, and the don't have anything removed.
Thanks again,
post #28 of 36
Thread Starter 
I just got done reading them (plus a few more), and Im actually a bit torn now. They presented some facts about non-neutered/spayed cats that made me think twice, and although I want whats best for my cat, I just can't justify doing that. Im still a bit iffy on some of the arguments, but the facts about fighting, coming home injured, and being lost for days on end really kinda hit me hard. I guess it just sort of describes my cat, even though I don't want it too. Hes come home with pierced ears before, and it just makes me sad to think about it. Plus this enya music in the background isn't helping.
This is going to be eating at my head for a while

Well thanks to everyone for all you help.

post #29 of 36
Originally posted by Cougar
Plus this enya music in the background isn't helping.
post #30 of 36
Brandon, I'm still working on finding further studies for you, and I'm glad you're rethinking your position. Personally, I would think the health benefits alone should be a convincing argument, but to each his own, right?

But I must say, obviously you are free to do what you want and will do so - but personally I am shocked to hear you let him roam. I'm sure you've heard this before, but you are obviously intelligent - and this just does not jive with the irresponsibility to which you've just admitted. I believe it is really irresponsible to allow an unneutered cat outside. It would be one thing if he were an inside only cat. And even if I didn't rescue, I would have a serious problem with the fact that you let your unneutered male roam. But I do rescue, and I do deal with homeless cats and kittens. Please visit several shelters near you. Ask them a few questions about the waiting lists. Please take the time to see what your decision to not neuter your kitty and to still allow him to roam outside does. Just because he can't come home pregnant and you don't have to deal with his kittens and don't even know he's fathered them (which he certainly has), doesn't negate the fact that it's happening. And it doesn't negate your role in contributing to a really tragic problem. I'm so, so, so sorry to hear he's also an outside kitty.

Don't get me wrong - I'm not a pro-inside only cat person. I'm just intimatey involved in the consequences of irresponsible people who do not spay or neuter their cats, and it turns my stomach. If you could see what happens to the kittens your kitty fathers I am certain you would not continue to let this happen.
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