Please Read! Urgent!

This, I assume, is a teenager and she's very concerned about her aunts cats. Since I have been in thie situation, I'd like to try anf find her some help. I know the frustration she's feeling right now.

Cats in Houston Need Help
"I just recently visited my aunt, and to my surprise,
she has 50 something cats, all skinny, all under
norished. What can I do? she can't afford to spay &
nueter, and she has kittens everywhere. I don't want
her to go to jail either (cause she's my aunt) and
everyone would know it was me, (that narked) and there
would be a huge family fight. What can I do for these
poor kitties?" Contact: [email protected]


Please email this young person with any and all suggestions?

I think she should tell her aunt to give the cats to a no-kill shelter. I think she won't be presectued if she does it out of her own free will. If she is not willing, I think the girl will have to get other family members involved and if needs be and there is no other option - "turn her in". I'm sure her aunt loves the cat, but this is basically animal abuse and shoul be stopped ASAP.

What did you tell her? How did things go in your experience?

Hi Anne

Well, I never heard of a "no-kill" shelter...I'm glad if such things exists, but, if they do, then they obviously dont have them in every area of the country. Here, in my county, for instance, the only chance we have is with the humane society and they dont always have room. When something like this happens, a person takes in alot of strays and things get a bit overwhelming, if you are "turned in", not only do you go to jail for up to three years, but most of the cats - who could very well be healthy, just a bit underweight, are euthanized simply because there is no room and no money for medical costs. I see it alot, here, because I live in an unincorporated part of California and there are alot of people from the Hispanic culture, from Mexico, who breed, raise and fight dogs - and they use cats as a tool to help them get those dogs to liking the taste of blood, making them better fighters. So, there are ALOT of people, like me, who take in cats to keep them from being tortured and ripped to shreds and we soon find things overwhelming only because of the cost of things. There are even cat breeding farms for this purpose - to sell the cats to dog fighters. I know youre first reaction is to ask, "Why dont you call the law". The law around here leans more toward pleasing the "out-of-towners" than doing whats right. A good example of this is the pot-parties that go on blatantly every saturday night across the street. Cops drive right by &look at girls holding a baby in one arm and a joint in the other and will only arrest you if you are white or black. This is NOT 'specualtion', this is the way it actually *is*. So if the law is going to overlook drugs, the poor animals dont have a chance. So, we end up trying to protect our furry friends and trying to do the best we can and its not always the best. I suggested this girl/boy/teen, if she is that concerned, why not have arummage sale to help with the cost? Why not call thier chapter of the humane society and ask how they could help out local strays? Sometimes there is low-cost spay/neuter clinics in the area. Why not ask friends and family for donations? Why not try to get an adult to attempt an arrangement for credit with a local vet? I suggested many things and asked that this person keep in touch. Theres always a way for things to work out. And I know this sounds harsh, but, even if the cats dies from a weakened immune system or FLV or whatever, its still a better death then being dangled by its tail in front of a salvitating pit bull, then ripped apart when the dog gets hold of it. In this type situation, there are no "grey" areas...there is only "do or die". Its you and these cats youre trying to protect against dogs and the law. I would NEVER suggest this kid "turn her in". EVER. All that could do is cause more harm than good. If the kid is so concerned with these cats' welfare, try to get them some food or get some adult to arrange for some medical care. These may not be the healthiest cats, but theyre *safe*. Theyre *alive*. And if the aunt goes to jail, theres one less "safe haven" for potential dog-snacks.

Always remember this: "The road to hell is paved with good intentions".
People who mean well usually always end up causing more harm than good because they decided to make someone elses business thier own. I'm not saying the aunt is doing right by letting these cats get sick and go hungry. But what this kid needs is people to give them thought-out advice...learn abut the area and whats offered there by way of assistance *for* the cats and the aunt. Not everyone *has* a "no-kill" shelter. Ive never even heard of one until your post because they certainly dont do that here and they probably dont have one where this kid os from, either. I also suggested this kid sneak some kittens out to the humane society...they always seem willing to take babies.
But try to get some food and try to find a lowcost clinic or arrange for some credit at a vets office. Turning the aunt in will only get most of the cats killed and the woman who tried to keep them safe three years in jail.

The road to hell most *certainly* IS paved with good intentions...


MM

Absolutely brilliant advice, MeowMix. Did the girl respond? what was her solution to the problem?

Hi Catherine,
I havent, yet, heard back from the person in question...I hope I do soon, though. I'd like to know whats going on...its got me awfully worried. I'll give them a couple more days then try again. Perhaps this person got scared and decided not to do anything? Perhaps this person and his/her aunt had a long talk...I'd like to know, myself.

Anyway, here's to hoping prayers are answered quickly.


MM

Thanks for all the replies. My Aunt isn't one of those old senile cat ladies, she is only 40 something, and unemployed. She is the black sheep, so I can't ask the family for help. I am going to find out if she is on public assistance, if so I know where we can get them spayed and nutered for free. If not, I will raise the money myself.
We have no-kill shelters, but to turn them in, they must meet certain qualifications. They have to be healthy, have current vaccinations, and have to be attractive pets, that someone will adopt. I know I think it sounds mean too, but thats how they work.
I contacted several local organizations, but most of them told me to go somewhere else, or "ok we will take them, but they will be euthanized" NO WAY!!
Any other ideas will be appreciated.
Thanks everyone!!

Are there any rules in this forum that prohibit requesting donations from other catlovers to help out another? I mean, theres *got* to be some help we can find for this Huoston safe-haven...

Any ideas?


MeowMix

This is just a suggestion, but it has worked here. Contact a veterinarian clinic and tell them she wants to know if she can set up an account in her name so people can donate money directly to them for the medical care of those cats and kittens. Once she finds one who will agree to do that, and I'm sure at least one of them will, she can begin bringing them in for shots, altering, etc. She might also ask them if they have the "Maddie Fund" there. We have it here. The Maddie Fund was set up by someone who left a large amount of money to be used towards the spay and neuter of feral cats and kittens. Vets who honor the Maddie fund also have available what is called a "feral package". This package includes the necessary shots, ear mite treatments and flea treatment (usually Advantage) good for one month. It is either offered at a low cost or free. With donations and some spay and neuter assistance she can have all of them fixed and placed within a few months maximum. That is if she works diligently and can even maybe get a few friends to help her out with the transporting to the vet. This way the IMPORTANT task will be done, her aunt can breath a little easier and whatever money that may be left over can be donated towards food for the remaining felines that are not adoptable and the aunt keeps. I would also contact the local feed and pet stores to see if they have a "broken bag" policy in which she can get a big discount on dry cat food. I know I would be willing to send her a few LARGE bags of dry cat food to help out ... How about anyone else?
I'd like to know how this all works out and ends. My heart DEFINITELY goes out to her and her aunt ... and ESPECIALLY those poor cats and kittens. I believe that EVERY animal has a right to food, shelter and love. I make that my mission.

Best of Luck
FeralGuardian

Unfortunately, it seems that everyone has a misconception about what is really gong on here. First of all, you don't have to be any particular age and you especially don't have to be senile to exhibit the kind of behavior that your aunt is exhibiting. Your aunt is what they refer to as "an animal collector" or "Hoarder". This kind of behavior, which the majority of the time presents itself in women that usually live by themselves and who are over the age of forty, is not anything to sneeze at. This is a very real psychological disorder that requires treatment and years of continuous monitoring, sort of like alcoholism, instead of always having the need to drink, people with this disorder will always have the need or the desire to collect large numbers of animals. This behavior fulfills a psychological deficiency. Reasons why the deficiency has surfaced can be attributed to many causes, but nonetheless, it is there and the person knows that the only thing that seems to make them feel better is to collect living animals.
Do not kid yourself into thinking that just because you are going to take of the cats that currently live with your aunt and that you intend to find them all good homes that this will solve the problem because it won't, in fact you couldn't be more further from the truth in this situation. Your aunt will continue to accept animals into her home no matter what anyone tells her. She will never tell you or admit to you or anyone that she has a problem. It will always be blamed on the other bad guy or that it would be much worse for the animal if it were living elsewhere. To her, she will always be saving these poor little cats from a life of misery.
Let me ask you, how in the world could your aunt keep up with the litter boxes for 50 cats. You indicated yourself that the cats were already under nourished. It would be a pretty safe bet to say that you are not telling us everything about the status of the environment at your aunt's house. I would have to say that the conditions that these cats are being forced to live in might not be very pleasant or much less acceptable to the fastidious nature of the feline species, let alone letting your aunt live in these conditions.
Unless you get her to some professional help, she will continue in this behavior pattern. And if someone isn't monitoring her, this same situation or worse will manifest itself again. Only the next time the conditions may get so bad that she might actually put her own health in jeopardy.
Believe me, most animal shelters and humane organizations are usually very educated about this psychological disorder and if they aren't, you can tell them about it yourself. I am very concerned about you, too. I already see hints that you might also possess this inherent behavior trait, be cautious not to let your good judgment be swayed by thoughts of trying to do good deeds for the animals sake.
I have to be honest, I have seen homes where 35, 50, 150 cats are living with one person and to tell you the truth, I don't think my cats would want to live in the condition present in most of these homes and I believe, if it were up to them to decide, they would prefer living in heaven as opposed to being forced to live under these circumstances.
I have to say one finally comment. You stated that none of these cats had been properly vaccinated, and that none of them were spayed or neutered. My guess is that none of them have ever been seen by a vet and this is the most painful part about all of this. Your aunt has done a great disservice to the lives of these animals.
Not making sure that they each have been properly vaccinated is the surest way to shorten the lives of these animals by many years. Not having your pets spayed and neutered is the one of the cruelest things you can do because you are now putting them at an extremely high risk for contracting terribly painful and fatal diseases, such as the many forms of cancer. Medical science has conducted numerous studies and it is well documented that spaying and neutering your pets will lower the risk for many of these fatal diseases such that you could almost consider the procedures of spaying and neutering as something close to a lifetime vaccinations for many of these life threatening diseases.
Now, should your aunts cats come in contact with any other cat, you are essentially exposing these other cats to the very real possibility that a fatal disease could be easily transmitted to them by contact with your aunts cats.
Now, you have created double the amount of innocent victims, all because everyone is afraid being called the "black sheep" or "the rat fink" or whatever name you want to call being a responsible member of your community. I must say, I would rather be called all of these names then have to live with the thought that I was ultimately responsible for causing undue anguish and pain in the lives of over 100 cats.
How about you?

Jewelcat

Jewelcat,
I think alot of what you said was cruel, unfair and downright untrue. I, myself, have had as many as 50 cats and, while I admit it was a chore within itself, thier litterboxes were always clean. They were fat, healthy, happy cats who's health AND living conditions were approved by the humane society, since the cats I brought into my home were adopted through them. And its isnt fair of you to assume that her house is a mess. This girl never mentioned anything about her aunts house. She simply said there was too many and that some of them appeared undernourished. She is trying to help her aunt. I think your assessment of mental instability is just plain mean. I guess taking in strays, abandoned cats make ME a "nut", too? Your statement "they would rather live in Heaven than [that]", was vicious. How do you know? Have you ever been a cat in that situation?? If you suddenyl found yourself with multiple human children, would you have them "put into Heaven" because you deem living in a crowded house to be a bad thing? And you most certainly wouldnt like it if people were telling you to have your kids put to sleep because THEY automatically think youre insane and youre house is filthy.

To be bluntly honest, Jewelcat, people like you frighten that daylights out me. People who rage on "Kill! Kill!" simply because you have faith in mere assumption. You would rather destroy than assist.

After reading this, there is no question in MY mind who the REAL mental case is.


MM

First of all Jewelcat, I think the IMMEDIATE attention needs to be focused on getting those cats and kittens the medical attention and stable environment they need NOW. Secondly, while I can appreciate your "concern" for the aunts mental capacity to some extent, I find that what you have done in your reply would be considered LASHING OUT. You are not looking at the IMMEDIATE emergency care of these felines. I may be wrong, but I thought this "forum" was to "help" with the health, survival and protection of feral and abandoned felines. Along with helpful suggestions for the rest who are just starting out in our mission. Nor do I believe that you have the right or enough "solid" information to make such sharp judgmental remarks on someone that, not only do you NOT know personally, but a situation that you have not seen with your own two eyes. I have a feeling that this is due to "displaced anger" coming from you. I think you need to back up a little and wait for more information, if given. This is the kind of remarks that put innocent people on death row. Uninformed judgement can kill! Let's just see what happens if we ALL just offer some "sensible" and "logical" solutions ... shall we? After all, isn't this what this forum is suppose to be about? If I'm wrong ... Please inform me of such .. Because I have many years of SOLID experience dealing with felines and I certainly don't want to waste my time or anybody else's if I'm in the wrong forum. I am not here to judge someone I do not know and have never met. I am here to help give advice and to get some if I should need it. Settle down Jewelcat ...You are NOT judge and jury.

Respectfully
FeralGuardian

You are probably right. I could very well be lashing out upon the innocent bystander here. You see, we have evidence that a local rescue group, could be responsible for a sizable number of the missing cats in Antioch. Collectors, will often find each other and in order to facilitate their growing needs they will quite often form so-called "rescue" groups. When they are able to form these legal type of groups it serves two purposes. One, it provide them with an umbrella of legal protection which then allows these members to collect their animals under the guise that they belong to a rescue group and it is okay for them to have lots of animals in their homes because they are a foster home.
I went into one of this organization's foster homes and I could never have prepared myself for what I was going to see. It was everything I could to keep a smile on my face as I was talking with the couple that lived there. They had over 35 adult cats roaming freely about this medium to small sized house. It was difficult for me to find a place to step as I was lead around the house to view these animals.
The second thing that happens is that because they are members of a "rescue group" people will actually feed animal to them and I don't mean this in the literal sense, you understand. I mean that as soon as people find out that there is animal "foster" home nearby, any animal that they see roaming the neighborhood that perhaps doesn't look familiar to them, or may appear to be thinner than what they think the animal should be they will immediately scoop up this animal and with the best intentions at heart take the animal to the foster home, not even thinking to ask the foster home about what kind of care the animal will get. Many don't even bother to check the inside of the home to see if the conditions are satisfactory.
It is an easy trap to fall into for all of us. It just naturally makes us all feel good when we help those who are less fortunate than we are and it makes us feel especially good and righteous when we can say out loud to our friends and associates, "I helped to save this poor little cat (or dog) today." "It looked like he was lost or sick (I have even heard the phrase that the animal looked "so sad and lonely")so I picked him up and took him down the street to a lady that does foster care for homeless animals. I saved his life".
You may or may not have heard about the lady in Petaluma, CA. She actually purchase a very nice home in a very nice neighborhood and this home was strictly to house her cats. She started out with something like 3 or 4 cats. Of course, she didn't have the time to spay and neuter them. And even though she drove all the way from San Francisco to feed them everyday, somehow she never noticed that the number of cats was increasing. As the number of cats continued to grow, it got to the point that when she came to visit them there were too many cats to feed so she didn't have any time to spend talking to them, petting them, spending that special one on one time that every being needs no matter what the species. Within two years time she had amassed over 165 cats, most of them were now feral. None of them had been vaccinated and unfortunately by the time the authorities were able to finally gain access into the home, most of the cats were very ill and most of them did not make it.
You say that I don't know the particulars in this specific situation, you're right I don't. But, what I do know is that one of California's State Humane officers, who is a Captian, also happen to a very good friend. She has 17 years experience in this field and travels the world giving workshops and seminars to third world countries about animal rights and animal protection. She specializes in "animal collectors" and I can't tell you how many times she has told me that, "everyone will tell you that their case is different from the rest and that it isn't fair to label a person until you know more of the details." Then she will say, "and unfortunately, this is one of the main reasons, that the people who need professional the most, don't get it, because everyone gets caught up in the drama of saving the animals lives." "Unfortunately, in cases like this, the most important victim to treat is the human", she says that many times it is too late to help the animals due to the fact that they are either too sick, or they are not suitable for most of the adoption programs. I agree with her that the only way to help a situation like this is to make sure that everything possible is done to ensure that this person gets the proper help. All of her humane officers have learned the hard way that in order to reach the ultimate goal of stopping animal abuse, everyone must realize that this can only be done by stopping the cycle of animal abuse and this means treating the problems associated with the human party in the abuse case. It is after all, always the human being that is the abuser. Animals will die there is no stopping that, at least not until we, as humans, can accept that our responsibility is not to just help the innocent animal victims, but we have to openly admit that there is no other place to lay blame for animal abuse other than the members of our own human race, which includes members of our family, our friends, and any people with whom we have relations. People just don't want to accept that in order for animal abuse cases to disappear is up to us, & the rest of the members of our communities and our society as a whole to bring about this change and we can't do this if everyone still insists on wearing blinders.

Please understand, I never meant to send a message to everyone that the animals are not important, of course they are! It breaks my heart everytime I hear a story like this. It rips right through my deepest tears when I think of these animals suffering like this, remember I still have two precious little souls that are missing and who knows what horrendous things may have been done to them.
All I was trying to say, was "DON'T STOP THERE" We cannot forget how all of this came about and we have to fight the cause by helping to fix the cause. This gal's aunt most definitely needs to seek some professional counseling and if none of you agree with that, well then we have a long way to go.

Jewelcat

Hey, guys and gals, let's not let our cat fight/flight adenalin get out of hand. I admit i read Jewelcat's first e-mail with a bit of soul-searching, since I have had up to 20 plus cats (in-house and feral) at one point -- I am down to 16 at the moment, but these, together with the five dogs (only 2 of which might be called "small") really fill up the house in the winter, when they all want to be in a warm, dry place at once.

And while the house is a mess, this has nothing to do with the animals -- my houses have always been a mess. What I DON'T have is scattered animal food, uncleaned floors, or ANY unspayed or unneutered animals. The only kittens and puppies I have at any point are the ones that are either thrown over my fence by freaks who think that I am here to take care of their unwanted leftovers (after they have exhausted their friends and neighbors for homes), or those that children bring me from survivors of litters of cats and dogs thrown out into patches of wasteland near our village. Not that many of them survive to be rescued, because we live in a desert, however many trees and other flora we nurture with irrigation and sprinklers.

As to collectors, of course there may be some of that. I went through a period where I took in every animal that came by my door (although I never went out looking for them), but I had to shake myself into a more rational behavior pattern. I now take most puppies immediately to the humane society in Beer-Sheva, which has a very good record for puppy adoptions. Two things have stopped me from taking all of the foundlings there -- one is that, if the pup is unattractive, it stands a good chance of being dumped into runs with larger dogs, who are kept for a time but ultimately killed if no one wants them. The other is that, since I live outside the Beer-Sheva city limits, I have to pay about $12 (50 shekels) for every animal. This past year I took them 12 puppies. I live on a very small income, and there are some months when I simply don't have the money to take a puppy into the city (there is the gasoline for the car, as well). So occasionally I end up keeping a pup, since my food distributor lets me write post-dated checks to times when I expect money to come in from my self-employed work.

As to cats, I just couldn't pass them by if they were in need. So I vowed I would only take those cats that appeared inside or next to my garden fence (I had to fudge a little to accept cats found by other people and brought to me -- after all, they were not brought inside by me, but delivered by others!). I went through a kind of "collector's" syndrome for the first two years -- a gradual loosening of my common sense. Fortunately I had the support of an excellent vet hospital, which let me pay the bill when I had money, and which tries to give me either half price (on spaying, neutering, and operations) or wholesale on certain medicines, and often doesn't record attending to more than one animal at a visit (although I habitually fill up my cat carriers with any cat that seems to exhibit abnormal behavior -- this is because I do not go into the city very often, and I need to maximize my efforts when I do. I do put up signs and try to give away cats (and dogs), and I badger my friends to badger their friends to find homes, but I have not been very successful, because most people admit that they have decided to take a dog from the animal refuge in Beer-Sheva because they know that it might be killed when it becomes surplus, and of course the cat-house, so-called, is always overcrowded and has only a modest adoption capability (so I was told). And that is the reason that I never take them a cat. Well, it's true I don't let my animals die without a fight against whatever is ailing them, but they keep me poor and they keep me busy, and I wish the people who dump them in my garden would put a few shekels in my mailbox to help me care for the food and vet fees of their unwanted animals.

Now I imagine this pattern is pretty much the same for most people who take in strays and ferals. Setting out to do a good thing, getting caught up in trying to save every stray or feral for miles around (incipient collector's syndrome), and finally settling down to make rules for ourselves -- I will not have more than X number of animals -- I will not have more animals than I can afford to neuter or spray -- And so on. Those who can find the money, the community or veterinarian support, or have enough land to offer the animals a reasonable quality of life can manage more, perhaps, and those who have less room and money can manage less.

When I walk in my house during the winter, with all the animals inside, I have to step over them or shift them, because there is simply not enough floor space. Fortunately, most of the cats sleep up on top of furniture, while the dogs actually like it under the tables, chairs, or bed. So it is just manageable for the short time we have rainy and cold weather. In spring/fall conditions, all the animals prefer the outside. The yard is fenced, has a number of climbing trees to enjoy and bushes to sleep under, and areas where they can dig up the ground for "cool" nests and I where don't hassle them about my lawn or flowerbeds (which I do hassle them about if they start digging). In the summer -- usually about 2 months of really unbearable desert heat in the daytime -- all the dogs want to stay in (there is a small airconditioner, which is for my computer room, actually), while the cats prefer the deep shade of the bushes. At night, only the youngest and most dependent of the cats prefer not to be out in the nice cool desert night-breezes -- the best bonus I can think of for living in a desert instead of north in a city (when they have high humidity 24 hours a day -- we have lower temperatures of 4 to 8 degree Farenheit in the desert, and it's usually dry as a bone).

This description is a long way of saying that people who appoint themselves as rescue centers usually recognize what they can bear. We say that God gives us only those burdens we can cope with, and I think most of us fall in that category. If it means turning vegetarian because meat is expensive and the animals have to be fed, this is a choice that some of us make with very little heart ache, although it might be an unbearable choice for another person just as concerned about the welfare of animals. I gripe that I don't have a decent place in the garden to sit with friends, what with both dogs and cats mucking up things (holes in the ground, ripping up the flowerbeds when they are in a jolly mood, using the best areas of lawn or shade as their toilets...), but this is mainly poor management, rather than lacking money, on my part, and I am gradually finding solutions that are acceptable to both me and the animals. The same is true of the house -- it was too small to have more than two or three guests at a time, and now, with one room dedicated to my free-lance work, 5000 plus books that take up all available wall-space, and my computer/printer system, one room as my bedroom (bed, dressers, wardrobes, and the TV, since there is no place else), and the remaining room to a table, a few more bookcases, and spill-over china and glass ware cupboards (small room -- I use it for teaching English a few days a week), it is impossible to have any but the closest friends over for tea and only one or two a a time. OK. It is inconvenient, but I am figuring solutions here too (Perhaps building some big weatherproof cupboards under the porch roof to hold those things that are used seasonally or only on special occasions -- those books of my 5000 or more that I may want to reread someday, but which don't have to be in the house proper -- ). Instead of complaining about inconvenience and overwork, I am gradually shifting my attention to solutions -- and as I get a little money for wood or tools, I am converting my living space into something that we (the pride and the pack and me) can tolerate.

As to quality of attention, I have to say that I am very lucky in this respect -- I work entirely at home, and go out only to visit friends, deliver or pick up work from clients who live in this part of the Negev (most of my clients now send me their work by e-mail attachment -- I have never even met most of them face-to-face!), to the city on a buying trip (the big supermarkets and specialty shops, the Beduin market for gift-buying, the train station, if I going north to visit someone for the day...). So I am mostly at home, and each of the animals gets quality time alone with me in any given day. And I get quality attention from them, too, so we are mutually satisfied with our interactions. What is more, the dogs and the cats don't see to mind living in a crowd on the whole -- the few that couldn't adapt and enjoy the companionship take themselves to several neighbors who put out food every day for the strays. I go and pick them up and take them to the vet for check-up if I see they look poorly, and I try to pick them up for yearly vaccinations (I buy the vaccine from a cooperative bet at wholesale (he supplies the needles and syringes for free), and another vet who deals only with large herd animals as a rule gives them the shots -- quite a production). All animals who pass through my house, whether he/she stays or decides to move on, is spayed and neutered. The big risk for cats that go (or return to being) feral is poisoning and dogs, and recently someone (either deliberately or inadvertantly) killed almost all the cats who habitually raid the area garbage cans. Of the ferals who once passed through my care, I have only caught sight of several in the last month.

And let's face it -- while dogs will pine away without human companionship and love, cats very often don't want it at all. They are pleased to be treated affectionately and fed regularly, but unless the chemistry is right, they don't always bond with their self-appointed "owners." In this way, they are far more human than simply animal. They may not fulfill all their potentials for affectionate interaction, but most of them will take good food, good treatment, and a safe territory any day. The fact is that most of my house cats are bonded very strongly to me, but then, I bottle fed many of them.

So dear Jewelcat, consider that most people like myself really do manage pretty well to give the strays and ferals enough food, a certain amount of vet care, and as much love and affection as they can take on board. If things are cramped and we find we can't live with that, if money is tight and has to get tighter, if the house is a mess that has to be constantly cleaned and we can't bear litter boxes in every room during the rainy season, then we find solutions. Because most of us care very much for the quality of life for the lost animals.

I know of only one person (although I am sure there are others here and there) who exemplify your collector. A woman in the city who feeds over 40 strays and who, in spite of offers by the vet hospital to do them for next to nothing, refuses to consider spaying or neutering. Thus her animals multiply most fruitfully, and the mortality rate among them is horrendous. The only two times I have ever seen her at the vet's, she has been complaining endlessly about the burden of her good works, and how much in despair she is, and how she has no life. If she didn't have kittens twice a year, she could cut her problems by 75 percent. She told me it was "against nature" to spay or neuter (a popular belief here), and that her now-dead husband would never have condoned it. I know another lady who has over 30 cats in a city apartment, but the vet hospital gives her a lot of support, and the Cat Humane Society in Tel-Aviv sent down a vet's mobile clinic and spayed and neutered all her animals for free. She is now on a more even keel. But she cries more tears over every sad little foundling and can't turn one away (nor can I, come to that). Even so, by neutering and spaying and having the support of friendly vets, she is now managing what seemed unmanageable.

Now, gentle down, let passions generate positive action.

A lot of people are doing God's work in helping to care for his suffering creations -- human, animal and environmental -- each to his/her abilities, passions, or georaphical location and experiences. As a Jew, I am pretty unhappy with Hamas -- the principal Arab terrorist group in our area. But as a humanitarian, I am glad that, for whatever reason, they also maintain social and material programs to help needy Palestinians. I am equally unhappy with the ultra-orthodox Jews in Israel, but I am glad that they put their money where their talk of good deeds is and also maintain social and material programs for their community. I do not like what they are teaching their respective peoples, but as I have faith in the Creator, I have faith that things will progress as they should, and that feeding, clothing, and helping people is a first priority, even if the devil is doing the feeding. Do I hear you saying that what they teach is hatred and that perhaps these potential terrorists (in both camps) should be allowed to die out? A dead person cannot learn and change as he matures. And if it is meant that that person will never learn to love peace and tolerance, then they will die by their swords in their own time -- but not by my will -- not by my refusing them food and shelter, even if they are my enemies.

In the same way, I think that even the collectors, if they can manage to find sympathetic vets and generous benefactors so that their refugees are at least materially cared for, are doing something wothwhile. I would not like to see general euthenasia for all stray or ferel cats, and that is the alternative to self-created refuges -- even those of collectors.

Peace. No flaming. Recognize the bad, but dwell on the positive. Where you can offer positive solutions to the problems of collectors, do so with as much suspension of judgemental language as possible. Channel strong passions into positive energy. The forums here on TheCatSite are meant to help people find solutions or to share hope and support.

I agree with what you are saying catspride and you are a very strong and very wise individual. In a perfect world, ideally we would want everything to take place just as you have said.
But this is not a perfect world and so we have to learn to live with the imperfections that our society has created. I commend you on your strength and perseverence in caring for all of your animals. I myself have 9 cats and I am all the time rescuing litters of kittens and other strays that venture into my yard. But I will say this, each and every animal that comes into my possession for care, even if the care is only temporary, the animal will be spay or neutered before it goes to any other person or place. I have taken strays to my own vet, paid for the procedure, and then I have taken the animal straight to our local city shelter. Most animals if they have already been spay and neutered are considered ready for immediate adoption and under the Hayden Bill in California, these animals cannot be euthanized. So, you see, at least here in California, there really isn't a good excuse, not to spay or nueter any animal, because what you are doing essentially is guaranteeing their chances for life.
I must point out one very important tell tale sign of a "collector" and even you touched upon this fact yourself. Those that fall into the catagory of being a true "collector" will all exhibit this same sign or symptom and that is they do not spay or neuter their animals. They will say things like, "it is too expensive" or they "don't have the time" or really any reason usually works, because what they are really trying to do is to convince themselves that the decision not to spay or neuter their animals has nothing to do with with their desire or need for more animals.
I enjoyed reading your message and I hope that everyone can understand the essence of what you had to say. Because you see, this is the same message I am trying to send out to everyone, but maybe I am not doing it as smoothly as you have done. Just because someone seeks out professional help does not automatically signify that they are "crazy". Good Lord! I think it would more crazy to find out that none of us need a little professional help at one time or another. I know that I have sought out this kind of help at one point in my life, so has my mother, and now that I think about it, so have quite a few of my friends. These professionals are out their to help mankind get a grip on life, as we all know, life can throw some pretty hefty curve balls at us and sometimes we just "can't see the forest through the trees".
Does eveyone understand what I am trying to say. All life is precious here on this earth and if we don't learn how to protect it, to manage it, and to help those lives that have strayed of the beaten path a little bit, then our future will be one filled with much heart ache and many tears. You can't fix only half of the problem, that just never works.

Jewecat

Jewecat

She isn't a collecter, or whatever, she got a few cats, those cats had cats..and so on. She told me I could take them all, so I really don't think she is hoarding them. She just can't afford them. MY opinion is that if you can't afford to take care of an animal, you don't deserve to have it, but I'm not going to say that I am right about that, just my opinion. Even though I don't agree with what she has done, I am still going to help her as much as I possibly can.
I have recieved a few very good ideas from this forum, and I thank those who have tryed to help. Those who want to judge and critize, I really don't need that right now ok? I'm trying to help the kitties.

She isn't a collecter, or whatever, she got a few cats, those cats had cats..and so on. She told me I could take them all, so I really don't think she is hoarding them. She just can't afford them. MY opinion is that if you can't afford to take care of an animal, you don't deserve to have it, but I'm not going to say that I am right about that, just my opinion. Even though I don't agree with what she has done, I am still going to help her as much as I possibly can.
I have recieved a few very good ideas from this forum, and I thank those who have tryed to help. Those who want to judge and critize, I really don't need that right now ok? I'm trying to help the kitties.

I am sorry that most of you feel that I am insensitive to this situation because in all honesty my heart goes out to all of the those cats that are now in this very delicate and serious situation. I hope you are right about your aunt. But again I will stress, that the willingness to give up the animals does not ensure that this will not happen again. I am not judging your aunt, I trying to help her. But most of all I am trying stop this from happening again. Many people don't like to look at the negative side of things. How do you think I feel when each and every day that goes by more cats disappear from families here in Antioch, the number is now 19 shy of 400 cats that have disappeared. I didn't want to face the possiblity that something bad had happened to my cats and it is only now, that I have been forced to realize as we have discovered a pattern to these disappearances, that it is very possible that my two beloved cats went through something extremely painful and down right unthinkable as a result of being taken by the perpetrators of these crimes. I cry everyday, thinking that more and more cats will suffer as mine did, unless we find a way to stop these people. I tried to candy coat it for a long time and I finally had to face the harsh reality of what was happening here and it took me 7 months to do this.
The attitude you have towards me is exactly what I expected to hear. I wish that they had come up with a different name other than "collector" for this problem. It always makes people so very defensive.
I have done my very best to help you in the way that I feel is most beneficial to the animals involved and that is to provide you with information as to why this might have happened. The hard thing about playing devil advocate is that people usually don't like to hear what you are saying and therefore they tend to think that you are being negative and that you are not persuing a positive resolution to the immediate problem.
I would like to give everyone some web sites to visit. http://www.brainerddispatch.com/stor...5990017.shtml, http://www.post-gazette.com/healthsc...323psych5.asp, http://www.planet-pets.com/petnewsA17.htm, http://www.bergen.com/news/catrl199907275.htm, http://www.getty.edu/artsednet/resou.../curtiss.html. Maybe this will help everyone to understand my concern. I know that is hard to see, but my primary concern is for the cats but I also have great concern for any future animals that may come into your aunt's care. Please keep an eye on her as I hope I am wrong, and I would be very pleased to hear that I was wrong. But do keep an eye on the situation especially after all of this blows over.
You have the knowledge now to help her should she need it and I will honestly and with great love towards all that are involved, pray that she doesn't.

Jewelcat

Here is a web site where you can link up to all the web sites in my earlier post.

Jewelcat

http://www.animal-friends.org/hoarders.html

Well, now that we have all had a chance to make each other uncomfortable...

I think that most people on this website love animals and feel the need to do something to save them, help them, and on the way, ease our own consciences because we don't devote every waking minute to fighting the good fight for their survival.

Well, not everyone can do that, or at least not at all times in their lives. We all do what we can and we all care as much as we are able.

Dear WashuSama, you are a good kid and you have your priorities straight even if logic tells you that there are a lot of other problems that should be dealt with if you can. The first priority is to help the cats themselves. Your ideas of trying to find homes for them is a good one, altho you will find that most people have friends who have unspayed cats and they already have the one or two kittens that constitute their limits. But try anyway. Posters in sympathetic shop windows or bulletin boards, maybe a slew of computer generated notices you can hand out to nice-looking people, kids at school, even the teachers... You can't go for too much information, or the health department will figure out the cats are with your aunt and they may be tempted to look into it.

You personally can call veterinarians to find cheap or no-pay spaying or neutering, or even better, if you can manage transport and time, go personally and appeal to them before they have a chance to tell you no on a telephone. All the other suggestions -- humane societies, websites in your state that have forums,, etc... They're all possibilities.

Home-made food is sometimes cheaper, but it takes work. Chicken and white rice is recommended by my vet -- don't use much salt. You can "sweeten it" with a can of cat food mixed in with a whole pot of food just to entice.

If you feel comfortable, get some of your friends involved in helping to raise money to feed street cats. There must be a modern equivalent to setting up a lemonade and cake table near a road -- I mean, there must be something you can make and sell to earn money to buy food. Maybe a pet shop will give you all the broken bags if you sweep out or clean cages for them. Or if you volunteer to teach a parrot how to say a few simple things (it enhances its sale value), since this is a job that is very time-consuming. In my day we had paper routes, cut grass (you have to be able to use a lawn mower), pulled weeds, babysat,walked people's dogs, took care of peoples pets or indoor plants when they went on vacation... Use your imagination. If you can get your friends to volunteer, you can cover an entire neighborhood with kids who will do odd jobs.

When I was your age, I used to rescue and feed various wild animals in the vacant lot next to or house. I just went around and begged at doors, and people thought it was cute. In these days, I suppose it depends very much on what kind of neighborhood you live in and what the local laws are about soliciting money. In a small town it would probably work. In the city it would be dangerous.

Anyway, your idea to appeal to the forum here was a good step. Think of some more.

Yes your aunt is not behaving responsibly, but maybe that's what she needs right now -- burying herself in a lot of warm and friendly bodies so she can forget the cold in the real world. If you come up with dynamic solutions, she may begin to see a way out of her black hole, I suspect that collecting or very strong passions or obsessions for various activities or causes, no matter how silly or how worthy, can often indicate depression or loss. Your company and your involvement in helping take care of her animals may give her something else to think about. Mental illness is a very strong word. Stick with depression -- we have all had it at some point or other -- and read up a bit on the web about how you might be helpful in reducing it. If my family considered me the black sheep, I think I would be depressed just about that!

You have a good soul. And you not only care for the cats, but you are also sensitive to the needs of your Aunt. Hold those thoughts and use them to help you to keep your priorities clear and to find solutions.

Good luck.

This is awful. I see people in here, myself included, actually defending themselves for having big hearts and trying to care for innocent animals who are products of other peoples irresponsibility. I have to question the actual motives of "animal control" and the "humane society". Jewelcat apparently lives in the same area as I do...and I tell you, what I have seen of these people, THEY are the main erason why there ARE so many people who take in pets. If these so-called animal-care agencies were'nt so "kill-happy", then we wouldnt take all these wayward animals in and they cant get thier hands on them TO kill them because of us so they label us "psychos". Oh, God I am SO angry right now! It is an actualy "race" to get to these cats before these so-called "animal care" agencies get to them because you can actually bet money on the fact that they will definately kill that animal! I once had to go to court over my OWN lost dog because they actually LIED to me about my dog having been there! When I went there, I never saw my dog and she was sick and needed meds. One day I went in withut calling and almost didnt see her...she was in an outside cage and the door was halfway open and there she was...skeletal and frothing - half dead and soaking wet from being hosed down WHILE she was in her cage! The attendant, apparently unaware, told me she had been there about a week...all the while I was calling and looking for her. She was scheduled to be murdered. A TAGGED (liscenced)family pet WITH ALL OF HER SHOTS. And these are supposed to be people who CARE about animals????????? And Jewelcat got it wrong about that woman in Petaluma. She actually lived next door to the house she bought. She was simply too old to care for these pets. BUT, it didnt make sense that she would spend 250 thousand dollars on a house for the cats, when she could have used that money to spay/neuter.
It just royally kicks my can when these socalled animal care agencies tell us we're all some kind of psychos because we happen to give a damned about wether or not these unfortunate, unwanted, abandoned animals live or die. THEY would prefer them DEAD...thats why the attack on us. "Oh, its so much better that theyre dead than having to smell dust or deal with a terd or two in thier litter pan". Arrgghhh.
I can no more understand thier mindset than they can mine. All I know is that if they werent so "kill happy", then *I* might have some time for myself instead of bleaching floors and cleaning litter pans and running babies (feline) to the doctors. But this is MY choice and they should butt the hell out of it. I have no defense against people like that woman they just arrested for leaving all of her cats in a van in the heat and most of them died...just like that father who left his 5 month old baby in HIS van in the heat and it died. Hes not labeled a psycho but she is. All I know is that if animal control and the humane society werent so kill happy, there wouldnt be a need for people like me to rescue them, feed them and care for them. What they dont understand is that there are alot of people out here in the REAL WORLD who buy kittens for thier kids when theyre little and cute and when theyre not little and cute anymore and thier kids lose interest, the cat is not worth having anymore so they dump them in the streets...usually to get run over, starve, become ill, attacked by dogs and the like. Hey, Jewelcat...instead of butting your nose into the people who at least make an attempt to save cats lives (even though it it DOESNT come under YOUR approval), why dont you turn your attention to looking into the rumors of "cat farms"...these people who catch and raise cats as "teasing tools" for fighting dogs? Why arent you looking into cat-nappings for the purpose of experimentation in local labratories? Because this PROVES you people would prefer cats dead than living. You only attack people who's only concern are the LIVES of the cats. Thats why.

Murderer!


MM