Safe commercial pet foods without toxins, controversial ingredients -are few and far between. What t

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remmiebrandt

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Re Carageenan, I believe there are an number of studies currently underway into its effect on people.  When I researched carageenan a year ago, the American Crohns body was just starting to formulate a study.  It is used scientifically to INDUCE ulceration of the colon....so they can then test drugs that will relieve that ulceration.  So for people with any type of IBD, it really isnt a good idea at all, and anecdotally, it causes terrible disease flares - hence I guess the Crohns body thinking about a study.  

I'm in Australia, so sorry, I don't remember the organisation's name, but I'm guessing a google search with verify the study with key words (given it was my google search that brought it to my attention).  I actually asked my gastroenterologist about carageenan, and she didn't know anything.  But, hey, most docs and vets are pretty clueless on the 'holistic' side of things - they just focus on medicine.  But what she did say was she has staunch beliefs that people should not be eating anything processed/mass produced. Foods should be all natural, with the old fashioned natural way of producing them eg: cheese should be milk, rennet and salt.  That's it.  (And yes 'carageenan' is natural, but that was not the point she was making - she was saying that the modernisation of food production has lead to a host of evils for the human body, and hence carageenan, being found and used to make low fat things feel creamy, was a bad thing....just eat the full fat thing!)  She also said she believes from her practice, that supermarket bread (with preservatives) are a culprit for a big rise in gastro symptoms and disease.  So I try to eat as clean as I can - and for my cats too!

Thanks for the thread about k3.  I didn't know about this (or I'd forgotten).  I have to say you are extremely lucky for choice in your part of the world - we get fewer pet foods being ok in Australia plus they are extrememly expensive (at least $1 for a single serve can, and upwards from there).

You may want to check out Ziwipeak - it is expensive, but ok I think.
 
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Yes, Hound & Gatos is one of the better foods available. If you go to their website, and plug in your location into the online store locator at this page : http://houndgatos.com/wheretobuy.aspx, you should pull up a few locations in NY. Alternately, @Raintyger has some links in her signature and may be able to help you in this respect.

I agree with you 100% that people can have a great influence for change, IF the will is there. Oftentimes, when people don't like something about a food, or a food causes problems, people will just move on to another food when they should take the time to contact the company and let them know of their concern, so that a problem can be rectified, or changes made. If enough people did this, we would see more positive change.

I contacted three of the top pet food companies recently, to get the lowdown on what is in their food for meat protein sources. Two out of three of the companies do not use carageenan in the majority of their line. The third company uses this but when questioned about it, the response was that they are currently looking for alternatives as they are aware of the health concerns but at the same time, they have to find something that will be suitable and reliable to ensure consistency.

Another example of change is that one of the companies will soon be making the announcement regarding their sourcing of rabbit to advise that they will be switching their sourcing from China to New Zealand as they are aware of public concern with food products that are coming out of China. This remains to be seen of course, but if it turns out to be the case, is a sign that some companies are getting the message.
Thanks for that information but I am so disappointed - I love the ingredients in Hound & Gatos and bought the beef, trout, salmon - my cats will not eat it. The one cat that was raised on toxic fancy feast won't even take more than a nibble and the stray I picked up about 5 years ago will eventually eat some of the beef but really doesn't like it at all and won't touch the trout or salmon. I think it might be the consistency of the food which is a very loose pate - and the pate is the least favorite even of their favorite foods. The next time I adopt kittens I will have to start them out on this food instead of the kitty crack. I tried the Weruva too but then I saw that even at $2.15 a can - it contains toxic ingredients too of copper sulfate - so now I am back out on the hunt. Looking into Firstmate & Fromm's now & hoping beyond hope that my cats will eat one of them. Meanwhile they are getting the canned food which I feel like I am feeding them poison and shortening their life every time I feed it to them (and I am) and trying to cut that down by feeding them home cooked chicken, and other meats with some fish a few times a week. I am so angry at the pet food industry and the FDA for putting the burden on us to find foods that don't contain poison. They just shouldn't be allowed - period. It is almost like a conspiracy they have with the veterinary industry - to result in some kind of organ failure or cancer in these cats - 10 years before they really should be dying - and we will never be able to prove it is the cumulative effects of the toxins in their pet food.
 
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remmiebrandt

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Thanks for that information but I am so disappointed - I love the ingredients in Hound & Gatos and bought the beef, trout, salmon - my cats will not eat it. The one cat that was raised on toxic fancy feast won't even take more than a nibble and the stray I picked up about 5 years ago will eventually eat some of the beef but really doesn't like it at all and won't touch the trout or salmon. I think it might be the consistency of the food which is a very loose pate - and the pate is the least favorite even of their favorite foods. The next time I adopt kittens I will have to start them out on this food instead of the kitty crack. I tried the Weruva too but then I saw that even at $2.15 a can - it contains toxic ingredients too of copper sulfate - so now I am back out on the hunt. Looking into Firstmate & Fromm's now & hoping beyond hope that my cats will eat one of them. Meanwhile they are getting the canned food which I feel like I am feeding them poison and shortening their life every time I feed it to them (and I am) and trying to cut that down by feeding them home cooked chicken, and other meats with some fish a few times a week. I am so angry at the pet food industry and the FDA for putting the burden on us to find foods that don't contain poison. They just shouldn't be allowed - period. It is almost like a conspiracy they have with the veterinary industry - to result in some kind of organ failure or cancer in these cats - 10 years before they really should be dying - and we will never be able to prove it is the cumulative effects of the toxins in their pet food.
Oh I forgot - this is the link for the copper sulfate - it is very very bad stuff. http://pmep.cce.cornell.edu/profiles/extoxnet/carbaryl-dicrotophos/copper-sulfate-ext.html
 
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remmiebrandt

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cranberries, rosemary ? Meh..The amounts in cat food are so small I would waste the energy worrying about it. I would suspect that the chemical residue from household cleaning products is more toxic to cats than cranberries in minute concentrations.
Rosemary extract is extraordinarily dangerous - it might be a minute concentration in a single can of food - or a single cup of kibble - but people feed these to their pets several times a day - over a course of years - this poison builds up and causes long term failure. The vets say - oh - it happens when your pet is 8 years old, 10 years old. NO! It is the poison. With safer foods maybe these pets would live 20 years - 30 years - maybe their hearts would give out before their liver, their kidneys.

Rosemary extract is DANGEROUS - http://www.thedogpress.com/DogFood/Rosemary-Neurotoxin-10032_Liquorman.asp

Cranberry contains toxins as well - http://catsuppliesreview.com/cat-supplies/273-your-cats-health-avoiding-toxic-products-part-2/
 

oneandahalfcats

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Thanks for that information but I am so disappointed - I love the ingredients in Hound & Gatos and bought the beef, trout, salmon - my cats will not eat it. The one cat that was raised on toxic fancy feast won't even take more than a nibble and the stray I picked up about 5 years ago will eventually eat some of the beef but really doesn't like it at all and won't touch the trout or salmon. I think it might be the consistency of the food which is a very loose pate - and the pate is the least favorite even of their favorite foods. The next time I adopt kittens I will have to start them out on this food instead of the kitty crack. I tried the Weruva too but then I saw that even at $2.15 a can - it contains toxic ingredients too of copper sulfate - so now I am back out on the hunt. Looking into Firstmate & Fromm's now & hoping beyond hope that my cats will eat one of them. Meanwhile they are getting the canned food which I feel like I am feeding them poison and shortening their life every time I feed it to them (and I am) and trying to cut that down by feeding them home cooked chicken, and other meats with some fish a few times a week. I am so angry at the pet food industry and the FDA for putting the burden on us to find foods that don't contain poison. They just shouldn't be allowed - period. It is almost like a conspiracy they have with the veterinary industry - to result in some kind of organ failure or cancer in these cats - 10 years before they really should be dying - and we will never be able to prove it is the cumulative effects of the toxins in their pet food.
Well, if its any consolation, Hound & Gatos is one of the more blander premium foods. This doesn't make it a bad food, but that it just takes some getting used to, especially for some kitties who are used to eating a lot of Fancy Feast or Whiskas.

What you might try is doing a gradual switch like you would for dry food. Mix in a bit of what they usually like, with a bit of Hound & Gatos (like a 50/50 or 75/25 split) and see if this can help to transition them?
 
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remmiebrandt

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Oh I forgot - this is the link for the copper sulfate - it is very very bad stuff. http://pmep.cce.cornell.edu/profiles/extoxnet/carbaryl-dicrotophos/copper-sulfate-ext.html
Fancy Feast not only contains the mendione and most contain carageenan but of course it contains this stuff too. Oh my gosh it is like a suicide cocktail - and they have the nerve to keep raising prices on top of that. I checked their "high end" brand too & the Pro Plan has all the same toxins. So much in one food -
 
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remmiebrandt

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Well, if its any consolation, Hound & Gatos is one of the more blander premium foods. This doesn't make it a bad food, but that it just takes some getting used to, especially for some kitties who are used to eating a lot of Fancy Feast or Whiskas.

What you might try is doing a gradual switch like you would for dry food. Mix in a bit of what they usually like, with a bit of Hound & Gatos (like a 50/50 or 75/25 split) and see if this can help to transition them?
Yes maybe I'll try that. I took them off dry food completely until I find one I'm satisfied with but they really don't need it - they just like to snack on it. I was looking for the Petsmart Turkey for sensitive stomachs but the closest Petsmart is only peddling bags that expire August 2014 & I'm not about to feed stale food. Arrgh.
 

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@RemmieBrandt, I saw in one of your posts in another thread that guar gum was a reason to avoid Fancy Feast. Is this now on your list of ingredients to avoid? I mentioned it awhile back when you were considering H&G. Sebastian is allergic to it. Canned foods that do not contain guar gum is very short list!  
 

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Oh I forgot - this is the link for the copper sulfate - it is very very bad stuff. http://pmep.cce.cornell.edu/profiles/extoxnet/carbaryl-dicrotophos/copper-sulfate-ext.html

Right now they're trying the Tiki brand but only the fish flavors since the meat flavors contain the copper sulfate
IMO you are very inconsistent in your arguments about toxins in cat foods. You are up in arms about copper sulfate and menadione, yet you have no issues with feeding fish to your cats, even though the fish in cat foods contains mercury and other heavy metals:

http://www.littlebigcat.com/nutrition/why-fish-is-dangerous-for-cats/
 
* The fish used in canned pet foods usually includes bones, and is high in phosphorus and magnesium, which can be an issue in cats with a history of urinary tract disorders or kidney disease. In practice, I have seen quite many cats develop urinary tract infections and blockages if they eat much fish–even boneless fish like canned tuna.

* Predatory fish at the top of the food chain, such as tuna and salmon, may contain very elevated levels of heavy metals (including mercury) as well as PCBs, pesticides, and other toxins. Tilefish (listed on pet food labels as “ocean whitefish”) are among the worst contaminated, along with king mackerel, shark, and swordfish. These fish are so toxic that the FDA advises women of child-bearing age and children to avoid them entirely; and they recommend only 1 serving of albacore tuna per week due to its high mercury levels. If these fish are dangerous to children, cats are at even higher risk!

...
And then there is your stance on raw feeding:
I will be giving home cooked meals to supplement the commercial food but I do not believe in raw food. People die from bacteria and other infections after COOKING food these days - it is much too much of a risk to me to give uncooked food.I think cooking chicken, fish or meat for them is safer & as long as I supplement with the nuitrient balanced commercial food - right now - is the best compromise I can make.
I think you are anthropomorphizing way, way too much here, as well as ignoring feline biology.  Who cares about what people are dying from in terms of food supply - we're not talking about people, we are talking about cats. Cats are designed and have evolved to eat a raw meat diet, that is why their digestive tract is a lot shorter and a lot more acidic than (since you are talking about people) the human digestive tract.

http://feline-nutrition.org/nutrition/spooked-by-salmonella-raw-food
You may have concerns when considering a raw meat diet for your cat. What about bones, parasites and proper nutrients? Most especially, what about pathogens such as salmonella? We have all been warned our entire lives about cooking meat thoroughly. The idea of feeding uncooked meat to our cats can seem scary at first. Isn't feeding a raw meat diet dangerous?

Not at all. People from all over the world are feeding their pets raw meat diets. The risk from pathogens and parasites is minimal if you follow safe handling procedures and are careful about sourcing the products you feed your cats, just as you would with foods intended for your own consumption. Cats eating a wild, prey-based diet routinely eat raw bone; it is a vital part of a natural diet. Cats evolved to eat their food raw, and their digestive systems are specialized for getting the maximum nutrition from a bio-appropriate diet.
Here is another good read on why raw is better:

http://feline-nutrition.org/nutrition/the-benefits-of-a-raw-diet-for-your-cat

Cats are predators. They evolved eating a prey based diet, and more importantly, eating that diet raw. Cooking degrades nutrients in meat, causing losses of vitamins, minerals and amino acids.¹ Meat used in highly processed pet food is cooked at high temperatures and the nutrients lost must then be added back in. This supplementation is not exact, and there are nutrient losses which aren't always replaced.
In regards to proper supplementation:

http://feline-nutrition.org/answers/answers-homemade-cat-food-a-balancing-act
 
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oneandahalfcats

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IMO you are very inconsistent in your arguments about toxins in cat foods. You are up in arms about copper sulfate and menadione, yet you have no issues with feeding fish to your cats, even though the fish in cat foods contains mercury and other heavy metals:

http://www.littlebigcat.com/nutrition/why-fish-is-dangerous-for-cats/
 

And then there is your stance on raw feeding:

I think you are anthropomorphizing way, way too much here, as well as ignoring feline biology.  Who cares about what people are dying from in terms of food supply - we're not talking about people, we are talking about cats. Cats are designed and have evolved to eat a raw meat diet, that is why their digestive tract is a lot shorter and a lot more acidic than (since you are talking about people) the human digestive tract.

http://feline-nutrition.org/nutrition/spooked-by-salmonella-raw-food

Here is another good read on why raw is better:

http://feline-nutrition.org/nutrition/the-benefits-of-a-raw-diet-for-your-cat

In regards to proper supplementation:

http://feline-nutrition.org/answers/answers-homemade-cat-food-a-balancing-act
If you are going to lecture to others on the subject of a raw diet, shouldn't you be feeding this to your own cat?
 
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remmiebrandt

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Here is the quote i have about copper..

Copper sulfate is an AAFCO approved source of copper, which is required in commercial pet foods. Any mineral is hazardous in large quantities, but when added at appropriate levels, minerals are critical nutrients for optimal health and wellness. 
The best foods are using copper proteinate instead - a chelated and much safer form of the mineral.  As far as I'm concerned it is not just about a balanced food which seems to be all AAFCO seems to look at - it is how the balance is being met and using something toxic or dangerous is not my idea of nutrition.
 
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remmiebrandt

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@RemmieBrandt, I saw in one of your posts in another thread that guar gum was a reason to avoid Fancy Feast. Is this now on your list of ingredients to avoid? I mentioned it awhile back when you were considering H&G. Sebastian is allergic to it. Canned foods that do not contain guar gum is very short list!  
I can't avoid it - I try to avoid it in people food but of all the other toxins in cat food it is the least significant although if it is #2 or 3 or high up there on the list - then I will not buy it. I am not looking at cooking and buying the supplements for cooked food & am waiting for the company to send me the sample supplements so I can see if my cats will do that.
 
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remmiebrandt

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IMO you are very inconsistent in your arguments about toxins in cat foods. You are up in arms about copper sulfate and menadione, yet you have no issues with feeding fish to your cats, even though the fish in cat foods contains mercury and other heavy metals:

http://www.littlebigcat.com/nutrition/why-fish-is-dangerous-for-cats/
 

And then there is your stance on raw feeding:

I think you are anthropomorphizing way, way too much here, as well as ignoring feline biology.  Who cares about what people are dying from in terms of food supply - we're not talking about people, we are talking about cats. Cats are designed and have evolved to eat a raw meat diet, that is why their digestive tract is a lot shorter and a lot more acidic than (since you are talking about people) the human digestive tract.

http://feline-nutrition.org/nutrition/spooked-by-salmonella-raw-food

Here is another good read on why raw is better:

http://feline-nutrition.org/nutrition/the-benefits-of-a-raw-diet-for-your-cat

In regards to proper supplementation:

http://feline-nutrition.org/answers/answers-homemade-cat-food-a-balancing-act
x
 
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remmiebrandt

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So... I just read through the document posted by the OP. 

It basically says, "We don't think carrageenan causes any problems. We have no evidence that it causes any harm." None of the studies in that document provide conclusive evidence of carrageenan being a problem in animals or in humans. The EU banned the use of it in infant formula, out of an abundance of caution and they even stated in their announcement of the 2009 ban, that there was no evidence that carrageenan is harmful. 

I'm not saying it isn't harmful, because I'm not sure that it is, but it sure seems like there is absolutely no scientific proof that states that the stuff causes any sort of health problems. There hasn't been a link between it and cancer that has been proven. 

I am sorry about the loss of your cat, but I think there may have been a much more logical answer to why she passed. 

In 2012, I lost my 2 year old dog to secondhand poisoning. My neighbor put down commercial grade rodent bait. It claimed that it was fast acting. My dog caught one or more of the mice that my neighbors poisoned, without ever leaving his own property... and later, bled to death because we had no idea what caused the bleeding. No one saw him eat a mouse. We didn't know what happened until after he'd died and a necropsy was performed. I had to go talk to every single one of my neighbors while I was grieving and broken, to find out who had put the stuff down, so that I could protect my other two dogs from Mugen's fate. Come to find out, they were cat owners. They had lost several cats just this way over the years and had no idea that they were killing them by using these poisons. The store where they purchased them, told them that the poison would not kill their pets, if they caught the dead mice, which was a lie. They had no idea that they were killing their own pets... and I had no ability to control what they do on their property. 

Rodenticides are anti-coagulant drugs. They prevent blood from clotting. 

 
So does mendione. It causes hemolytic anemia and interferes with the natural vitamin K cycle. It is not excreted and accumulates in their tissues. I know this now. I wish I had done my research a long time ago. Since my cat ate fancy feast every day for 10 years and that contains mendione and I use natural white vinegar cleaning products and have no rats, poisons or drugs here - to me it is a no brainer.
 

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Rosemary extract is extraordinarily dangerous - it might be a minute concentration in a single can of food - or a single cup of kibble - but people feed these to their pets several times a day - over a course of years - this poison builds up and causes long term failure. The vets say - oh - it happens when your pet is 8 years old, 10 years old. NO! It is the poison. With safer foods maybe these pets would live 20 years - 30 years - maybe their hearts would give out before their liver, their kidneys.



Rosemary extract is DANGEROUS - http://www.thedogpress.com/DogFood/Rosemary-Neurotoxin-10032_Liquorman.asp



Cranberry contains toxins as well - http://catsuppliesreview.com/cat-supplies/273-your-cats-health-avoiding-toxic-products-part-2/

How do you know it builds up? Thousands of cats have been eating these food with these minute trace ingredients and they are fine. Animals and human injest minute amounts of cancer causing substances every day. Particle Emissions, VOC's, and Benzne for example can all cause cancer in certain concentrations. Saccharin may cause cancer but you have to eat grotesque amounts of it every day as did the mice.

One can worry themselves sick over every ingredient OR they can rule out some which may be problematic and simply accept that they cannot control every aspect of their lives.
 
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remmiebrandt

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Have found the DL-Methione is as bad as the mendione sodium bisulfate (AKA K3, Dimethyl primidinol)- both are synthentic - the DL-Methione info I found says it causes brain tumors & heart problems - seems the ingredient that is the natural amino acid is menatholine - vitamin K2.- no wonder there is such confusion.

Shopped for foods without mendione cranberries, yucca, rosemary and tried to avoid carrageenan but especially not foods that contain BOTH mendione & carrageenan which both cause bleeding & anemia - which many supermarket brand foods do contain both - could explain the rising and unexplained incidence of cats with anemia - when you start researching that the results are basically most of them die.

Here's what I found: Basically most of the food had at least one ingredient I didn't like and thought was taking a chance with my cat's health  without any real nutritional value - especially since they don't really have studies with the long term, cumulative effects of feeding it to them every day. So I guess each has to decide the less of the evils and make sure to have enough foods your cat likes that you're happy with and just keep rotating them out so they don't get too much of one ingredient.

The best food I found my cats would eat is the Firstmate but unfortunately it is not available in my region and can only be bought online at amazon where it is sold at $54 - 40 a case. If it were more affordable or available I would make this my cat's commercial food mainstay.

Fromm family & Hound & Gatos are the next best according to my standards - if your cats will eat it. Mine did not want the Fromm and will only eat the Hound & Gatos beef  flavor when I mix cooked chicken in it. Halo's Spot stew would be good but it has garlic powder.  I learned that most rabbit in pet food is sourced from china - I could not feed my fur babies cute furry fur bunnies anyway - but just something to keep in mind. I am just putting the ingredient I found the worst in each - none of the above are found unless I post - so maybe it will help uncover a food you want to try.

Tiki - contains copper sulfate instead of protenate but otherwise they liked the chicken - would not touch the tuna - nor the gourmet carnovoir which is mostly all liquid and chunks of liver that even if they ate it - I would only feed as a treat sometimes. Wellness signature selects was also free of the above ingredients but only the shredded chicken and the shredded beef - the others contained carragenan. At first they liked only the chicken but now they won't eat that either. Was pretty happy with the Weruva truluxe - it came it several varieties but my cats would not eat any of them. Keep in mind that Tiki, Wellness Signature Selects and Weruva are all made in Thailand. Also Wellness is a Diamond Pet Food brand - serious recalls - and some types of Weruva are made by Evangers (enough said).  Evangers has a brand that seemed pretty great on ingredients called Against the Grain - run by the sisters of the Evanger's owner - but I'm not sure about how trustworthy the company is myself. And they also contained the copper sulfate.

Organix was taken over by Merrick which keeps stuffing their foods with cranberries and rosemary but the original organix (not the pate or the grain free) there is one free of the toxic ingredients but there are only about 2 flavors - the turkey and salmon. My cats did not want that either much to my disappointment - again.

Halo spot's stew ruined a perfectly good recipee by adding garlic powder and Evo contained both carraganan AND sodium ascorbate - which I found research saying it is known to cause tumors. Garlic & sodium ascorbate both deal breakers for me -plus Evo has been recalled too many times for me.

Natural choice excited me - the soft loaf pate for seniors, the minced chicken and sliced turkey until I realized it was by Nutro so I won't even try it - far too many recalls & consumer reports has over 1000 current complaints about dogs dying - I know its dogs not cats but it is too much to gamble on. A big gamble.

I looked into the nature's instinct recommended here - and it has some odd ingredients like montmonillonite clay - that's what is used in some kitty litter and is quite absorbent - I can't imagine that is good for your cat - I found where somewhere it said that cat's seem to gain weight on this food - yeah I guess carrying around a lump of absorbed water etc. would do that. Again not a scientifically tested ingredient I want to gamble on.

FISHMEAL - also by the way - found out that FISHMEAL contains ETHYOXQUIN - quite toxic and it doesn't have to be separately listed so I have added fishmeal as another avoided ingredient. Also found some Purina whisker licking treats for cat - contain preservatives BHT/BHA and/or ETHOxQUIN which I also unfortunately found in the chicken flavor pill pockets - I didn't check the other flavors. I had them here from when my cat was sick & found one of them loved it - but had to toss all the treats.

Looked in Blue Wilderness - it contains carrageenan AND sodium selenite - looked up sodium selenite and I still have to do more research but initially I found that it is toxic if it accumulates and I haven't gotten as far as to see if cat's can excrete it - they can not excrete the mendione at all.

Dave's petfoods - yeah the tuna & chicken, and tuna entree are all pure - and my cats won't eat it. The grain free turkey & giblets, beef & chicken and tuna & shrimp are ok but do contain carrageenan. The cat's meow does not contain carrageenan but it does contain copper sulfate (the others with carrageenan use copper protenaite- go figure why they do this). Containing both carragenan AND alfafa are their 95% tuna and chicken pate, beef & beef liver pate and turkey & liver pate. I mention alfalfa because when I did the research - it is probably not something you want to feed every day since I read that although not toxic can lead to severe indigestion, stomach & endocrine problems & it seems to cause allegeries in a lot of pets.

zwipeak is so expensive and still contains carrageenan plus copper sulfate.

Checked into Rachel Ray's nutrish which is the only supermarket brand I found (stop and shop carries it ) without mendione but it does have carragannen and "natural flavors" - I wrote to them asking exactly where those come from and haven't gotten a response. Same question re: "natural flavors' posed to Feline Caviar which otherwise seems to be a pretty good food ingredient wise. I plan on trying Feline Caviar to see if my cats will eat. The Rachael Ray Nutrish though also has sawdust (powdered cellulose) and vegetable oil instead of fish oil so I guess although I couldn't find any toxic worries - I don't think its actually very nutrish. Shame on you Rachael Ray!

Found a brand called Natural Planet Organics which has carragenan and also sodium selenite although that is the last ingredient - but also has ethylenedamion dityditol which I believe is iodine and I haven't seen too often - it also makes Pure Vita which contains Betaine that I haven't looked into yet but seems to have added salt pretty high on the label. Another brand I wanted to look further into is called Pinnacle -but that contained cranberry meal (instead of cranberries) and Papain which a brief look at that said it can cause throat damage in excess.

Go sensitivty duck pate had me up to the addition of Yucca (why do they keep schucking these ingredients in)?

Both Addiction and Newman's Own had carrageenan quite high on the list of ingredients which really worries me - if you're going to feed carrageenan (hopefully alternating with carrageenan free foods) you sure want to see it low on the list. Addiction also uses potatoe starch and copper sulfate and Newman's Own pads it with alfalfa meal.

Avoderm - copper sulfate, carrageenan and avocado oil (plus the chicken and duck at least contains mendione - maybe other flavors too - I stopped looking after awhile because of all the other ingredients it seemed like a non starter). I am confused over the avocado oil since avocado is supposed to be highly toxic to cats - the aspca has it right up there with rosemary, yucca & garlic.

I found something called Artemis that contains copper sulfate but nothing else that I wanted to look into a bit and Wysong but I am so afraid of anything Evangers.

There you have it - exhausted and disappointed. Result is unless you want to go home cooked (and I looked into buying supplements from Altunin which was nice enough to mail me a bunch of recipees) - I guess you have to choose something with something not so good in it that your cat will actually eat and hopefully find a couple of somethings you can live with giving them and your cat will eat so you can alternate frequently so as not to let the questionable, toxic, untested ingredients pile up.

If you think I missed a good food - or know something more about the ingredients I singled out for worried - very happy to hear about it because right now I'm not feeling good about my cat's foods and still messing around with their diet as I continually try out new foods on them.
 

andrya

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Have found the DL-Methione is as bad as the mendione sodium bisulfate (AKA K3, Dimethyl primidinol)- both are synthentic - the DL-Methione info I found says it causes brain tumors & heart problems - seems the ingredient that is the natural amino acid is menatholine - vitamin K2.- no wonder there is such confusion.

Shopped for foods withou   etc...
Wow, that's very comprehensive. Kudos to you for finding something that works for you and your cat 


This is exactly why l have a wide rotation of foods. l'm scared that anything l'm feeding them is too high in this, too low in that, or that the other is slowly harming them. 

l don't give them kibble (l used to feed them Wellness Core and EVO kitten kibble mixed together), but l give them most of the "decent" canned foods l can find, despite the list of things l don't want to feed them. 

Do you feed raw? l'm not suggesting that you go the grinder route as l do, but there are a few freeze dried products on the market now that are pretty good. l use 2 of the Stella & Chewy's flavours. This is one of them:

Ingredients:  Chicken (ground with bone), Chicken Liver, Chicken Gizzard, Pumpkin Seed, Potassium Chloride, Sodium Phosphate Monobasic, Choline Chloride, Dried Pediococcus acidilactici fermentation product, Dried Lactobacillus acidophilus fermentation product, Dried Bifidobacterium longum fermentation product, Dried Enterococcus faecium fermentation product, Taurine, Tocopherols (preservative), Zinc Proteinate, Zinc Sulfate, Iron Sulfate, Iron Proteinate, Vitamin E Supplement, Niacin, Copper Sulfate, Copper Proteinate, Riboflavin, Manganese Sulfate, Sodium Selenite, Manganese Proteinate, Thiamine Mononitrate, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Folic Acid, Calcium Iodate, Vitamin B12 Supplement.

lt's HPPed and the bag says "the Safe Raw". lt has the ease and convenience of kibble - it comes in a resealable bag, you throw it in the cupboard and use it by the handful, and you can add as much water as you wish for hydration. The big drawback is cost. And of course, being raw, it needs to be treated with the same respect as kibble in the handwashing and clean-up department.

l just thought l'd throw it out there in case you hadn't yet considered it.  If you have any other questions about this product or any other raw products please ask in the Raw and Home-Cooked food forum.:

http://www.thecatsite.com/f/65/raw-home-cooked-cat-food
 
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oneandahalfcats

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Have found the DL-Methione is as bad as the mendione sodium bisulfate (AKA K3, Dimethyl primidinol)- both are synthentic - the DL-Methione info I found says it causes brain tumors & heart problems - seems the ingredient that is the natural amino acid is menatholine - vitamin K2.- no wonder there is such confusion.
Just to be clear, are you referring to DL-Methionine? If yes, this is the synthetic version of an essential amino acid in cats and dogs. Besides being an important amino acid to promote healthy skin, hair and eyes, it helps to protect the heart and kidneys. Of important note, it is also classified as a urine acidifier. This ingredient is absolutely essential for some cats who are prone to crystals in the urine, as it works to acidify the urine to prevent crystals from forming. For some cats, meat alone (which naturally contains methionine) is not sufficient to ensure that the urine remains properly acidic. It is unfortunate that pet foods companies are using this synthetic version instead of the naturally occurring type which is L-Methionine, but unless pet carers have the means to add L-Methionine to their pet's food, they must rely on commercial foods that contain this ingredient. That said, it is very important that amounts of supplemental methionine that cats receive, be strictly controlled, as you can end up with too acidic urine which causes oxalate crystals.

As for DL-Methionine being potentially harmful, I didn't find anything that points to this specifically, but there is an article on it at the TruthAboutPetFoods website. The author discusses what it is, how it is made, but there is nothing about associated risks but more of a comment on why DL-Methionine is added to pet food. I see that there is no mention of DL-Methionine and its role as an acidifier in this article which makes me question the extent of the author's knowledge on this subject. If you have found other references that discuss negative effects, please provide.
 

thehistorian

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While I am concerned about feeding my cat the safest, most healthy food I can find and afford, I often think that us animal (in this case cat) lovers can take it to an extreme. Unless you feed raw, there is always going to be some undesirable ingredient in both your food an your cat(s) food.

I choose to feed my cat Nutro Natural Choice and Evo because while both have had recalls and have some controversial ingredients, they work for Enya and they have the simplest ingredient lists I have encountered. When I tried to put her on Tiki Cat she was not a fan.

When I put her on mostly Weruva, I believe it largely contributed to the severe bout of constipation she suffered recently and now seems to be (cross your fingers) recovering from thank goodness. Basically, at the end of the day you might think you are feeding your cat the best but then it goes and causes something like a month long battle with constipation. I think whether or not a food with or without controversial ingredients in it works for your cat and does not largely contribute to the death they are ultimately going to die eventually anyway comes down to two major factors: whether the food meets the most basic and critical biological needs of a cat (low carb, grain free, high protein, high water content etc.) and the cat's own wonderfully unique body and genetic propensities.

I have heard of cats living off stuff like Fancy Feast (contains K3) and living to 15 plus years. Same with other brands with questionable ingredients. I have heard of cats on the best most biologically appropriate diets and they still died at like 6. All we can do is the best we can do and what seems to work best for our individual cats.

While this may seem blunt and cruel, at the end of the day, we are and our cats are all going to die at some point. I am not going to spend every mili-second worrying over whether every ingredient in Enya's food is perfect. What I will do is avoid the ever living god out of questionable plant material like rosemary, garlic, yucca, potatoes, peas, and excessive gum usage etc.
 
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momof3b1g

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While I am concerned about feeding my cat the safest, most healthy food I can find and afford, I often think that us animal (in this case cat) lovers can take it to an extreme. Unless you feed raw, there is always going to be some undesirable ingredient in both your food an your cat(s) food.

I choose to feed my cat Nutro Natural Choice and Evo because while both have had recalls and have some controversial ingredients, they work for Enya and they have the simplest ingredient lists I have encountered. When I tried to put her on Tiki Cat she was not a fan.

When I put her on mostly Weruva, I believe it largely contributed to the severe bout of constipation she suffered recently and now seems to be (cross your fingers) recovering from thank goodness. Basically, at the end of the day you might think you are feeding your cat the best but then it goes and causes something like a month long battle with constipation. I think whether or not a food with or without controversial ingredients in it works for your cat and does not largely contribute to the death they are ultimately going to die eventually anyway comes down to two major factors: whether the food meets the most basic and critical biological needs of a cat (low carb, grain free, high protein, high water content etc.) and the cat's own wonderfully unique body and genetic propensities.

I have heard of cats living off stuff like Fancy Feast (contains K3) and living to 15 plus years. Same with other brands with questionable ingredients. I have heard of cats on the best most biologically appropriate diets and they still died at like 6. All we can do is the best we can do and what seems to work best for our individual cats.

While this may seem blunt and cruel, at the end of the day, we are and our cats are all going to die at some point. I am not going to spend every mili-second worrying over whether every ingredient in Enya's food is perfect. What I will do is avoid the ever living god out of questionable plant material like rosemary, garlic, yucca, potatoes, peas, and excessive gum usage etc.
I agree. We are supposed to feed a wet diet. Because dry is so bad for them. Well with all the wet choices. There still isnt one out their without questionable ingredients.
 
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