designing a cattery

MyCatsInTheTub said:

Or better yet breed actual barn cats. The kind that catch mice and rats, avoid coyotes, and are good around kids and livestock. Big ranges beasts that like rural life. There is a huge shortage of quality barn cats.

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. . .I don't see that. I see farmers going on a mass cat kill once or twice a year to get their numbers of "quality barn cats" down to something manageable. But maybe there is a shortage in places with fewer barns :lol3:.

Well, As far as breeding registered cats, I would love to do that, but there is a problem.  You can only breed registered cats from Registered cats, and registered cat breeders won't sell them to someone like me that wants to breed them  with no interest in showing them...............  therefore, If I want to breed Siamese cats then they have to be unregistered, because those people will at least give me chance.  That is why I feel sometimes that show breeders indirectly encourage the back yard breeders, that they try to illuminate.

I would LOVE to breed a Strain of cats that were selected for their hunting ability.  I have a cat that will tackle a rat no matter what size it is, but a lot of cats won't.  I am thinking of something like the guard dogs you see that lives right with the animals.   I guess the way to start that would be find good hunting stock and breed to/from it.  I have one catch though, I want them to be pointed like a Siamese. 

In the same way that the standard of perfection lists the qualities that a chicken must have, I would have to develop  a standard that all of my hunting cats must have.  That I  wouldn't know where to start. 

They would need to be large and yet quick, Brave and yet gentle,  protective of their young, good teachers for their kittens.  But I don't know what that would look like when I moulded it into a cat's frame.

http://www.canadianveterinarians.ne...e-of-practice-for-canadian-cattery-operations

I found this document about the requirements for cat care in Canadian Catteries.  It is problably the minimum requirements, but maybe it will be a starting point for me.  It even describes communal housing

Willowy said:

. . .I don't see that. I see farmers going on a mass cat kill once or twice a year to get their numbers of "quality barn cats" down to something manageable. But maybe there is a shortage in places with fewer barns

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We have more barns and graineries than houses where I live. I can see 6 from my from door step because I live on the edge of town and the prairie is really flat 

It's not the overly domesticated lazy city cats that are scared of mice and rats and do nothing except eat cat food, get their groove on, and make a nuisance of themselves that there is a shortage of around here. They end up as coyote food because a flick of a tail and a slight hiss doesn't deter a hungry predator. t's real barn cats we have a shortage of. 

They would need to be large and yet quick, Brave and yet gentle,  protective of their young, good teachers for their kittens.  But I don't know what that would look like when I moulded it into a cat's frame.

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^^^That is the barn cat I was talking about. Also friendly to humans that belong. And a tendency to be mousers not birders. 

I'm not sure some of those things can be bred for. Like preferring mice to birds---I think this depends on whether that individual cat has decided that birds are more delicious/fun than mice. I don't know if large and quick go together (or always go together? I don't think I've ever seen a slow cat unless it's fat). Human friendliness is mostly dependent on early socialization. It all sounds nice but I don't think those things are genetic.

I would imagine that any cat who survives the predators long enough to breed is a "quality barn cat". That's what natural selection is about . Housecats don't last long on a farm.

To me a cats main defense against a coyote would be to "RUN" not attack, so maybe it would be up to us to provide the cats with, Trees, shelves high posts that they can climb quickly to get out of the reach of the coyotes.  On the other hand tigers would kill the coyotes too........ maybe they would eat the mice too.

I am picturing this cat to be to farm hunting what the great pyrense dog is to farm/livestock protection.  But I wouldn't know how to make one.

I've thought about it, and creating a cat training program of some sort, so I have recourse other than just saying no when people offer me money for my cats. One lady offered me $600 for my cat ?!?! She thought he was part Bengal because he has sparkly hair, and is very high energy. Go to the pound. Adopt your own kitty, or several. 


Red Tabby DSH. Not Bengal. 

kitten is being advertised for a free home.  I know that she is not Siamese, but she is a "pointe cat" right?  Maybe lilac or something like that?

Gorgeous cat! Definitely not Siamese, but beautiful. Looks like a blue lynx point, but not positive about the blue, since it's hard to tell from a picture on a monitor.

I am a registered breeder of Traditional Siamese.  If you start off with unregistered stock, then yes, you will have a very hard time being able to gain the trust of registered breeders.  I started off with the unregistered cats or those with TCA and let me tell you HUGE PROBLEM!!  It's not just the registration papers that are important, but the philosophy's and ethics of nonregistered cattery's (back yard btreeers) vs registered cattery's.  Registered breeders take the health and quality of their cats to a whole other level.  They test and test again for parasites and illnesses and genetic diseases.  They do this so they can ensure that they are selling a cat to a family that is healthy and wonderful and will live for a long time without genetic anomolies, even small, and without intestinal parasites.  . The amount of parasites that can be found in a cats intestines is many.. Tritrichomonas foetus, Salmonella, Clostridium, giardia, ringworm, hookworm, Campilobacter and then there are about 5 others.  unregistered breeders are not going to sell you kittens or breeding stock that have been checked for ALL parasites or genetic problems.  They will sell you what appears to be healthy, and in deed is not because no tests were done.  Fecal tests for parasites in catteries can be very expensive.  But if you start off with cats that aren't tested your cattery will quickly become infested with these bacteria's.  Many of these parasites and bacteria's become chronic even with treatment.  Not to mention ringworm.  You can't just buy cats off the internet, you have to do your homework and you have to do it right.  ~~ If you don't your kittens and cats and their litters will have diarrhea after diarrhea and viruses. It is so much more expensive to "clean up" your cattery than to just contact a breeder who is registered who does the testing and buy quality breeding stock.  If you are a breeder and you are serious about the cats you will sell  to others than you have to be concerned about what you are producing.  An unregistered Siamese comes form unknown blood lines and could have health issue that aren't usually seen in the breed.  Siamese are actually pretty healthy but when they are mixed with other breeds you may have kidney failure, heart disease, blindness.   Traditional Siamese, old time Siamese breeders do not all attend shows.  Some do and some don't.  This may be a better way for you to go. Your litters and mothers should never ever be caged,  Your kittens should be running around your house and on your bed and you should be playing with them.  SIAMESE ARE MEGA SOCIAL!!  Caging a litter of kittens will give you skittish and unsocialized kittens.  I have seen it so many times.   Give your boy a nice big place to live with a run and access to safe fresh air, this is fine as they spray and some of them are called hosers!!  BUt don't cage your kittens or their moms.  Adopt good practices from the start and don't waiver.  Only produce THE BEST!!  I tell you this from my heart because I had a rough start and it was not nearly as hard as I thought it would be meeting and learning from honest ethical breeders.  If you truly care and want to do it right, that is what they are interested in!!  If you have already put down deposits for those 2 queens and stud, just loose your deposit, its only money its not your reputation.   Believe me.  And you truly are known by who you associate with even in the cat world. 

Ok, there is some pretty good learning going on here.  I have no deposit on the kittens, I have only suggested that I was taking them.  Matter of fact the first litter was only born yesterday, and the other litters he is having don't arrive for a month.

I knew that to start with kittens meant that there would be no breeding done for a year.   One thing that I never thought of before today is that these kittens aren't  really going to catch any rats for about a year are they?  I mean they might catch some mice early on, but they are going to need to be full grown to catch rats. 

I have a person offering me a free female, Siamese cross cat that is a year old and, although I haven't seen her, they say that she is a Siamese colour.  I am wondering if she wouldn't be a more hardy cat for living in the barn than a pure Siamese. She is not fixed, so If she was/is a good ratter, I could raise a litter of pointed cats off her and get every thing fixed and have some pointed barn cats.  That might be a much better way to go.

I wrote to the person that had the cat I posted on here, but only a couple of hours after the add was posted that cat was rehomed already.

I wouldn't count on Siamese kittens catching anything. Their mothers are presumably kept indoors so will not be able to teach them to hunt. Kittens need to learn the kill bite around 4-5 weeks or they'll never be good hunters. If you want farm cats, get some farm-raised kittens. We are heading into kitten season---you should start seeing kitten ads pretty soon, and they'll be fairly steady until June or so.

You should be able to find barn kittens that a farmer would be looking to get rid of.  Farmers like to have cats in their barns particularly if they keep horses in the barn, they are easily startled by mice and can become injured to the point of needing to be euthanized because of being frightened.  Farmers usually don't bother with getting barn cats neutered/spayed so they can get too many and would be glad to give you some.  They will have learned how to hunt.

chipsahoy said:

pointed cat.jpg

• chipsahoy
• Mar 8, 2014

This kitten is being advertised for a free home.  I know that she is not Siamese, but she is a "pointe cat" right?  Maybe lilac or something like that?

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Please accept my apology first BUT you want to breed Siamese cats - not papered or purebred, kitten not purchased from an ethical Siamese breeder - and don't even know if this kitten offered for free was a pointed cat nor did you know the color??? Also, no one should give away a kitten for free.... thank goodness this kitten found a loving home.

This cat site is pro-spay/neuter unless you are a breeder of PUREBRED papered - full blooded, cats. I urge you not to go ahead with trying to breed pointed Siamese mix cats just to look pretty in your horse barn. There are many, many, many, many cats that need "barn" homes. Why not reach out to your local TNR organization and leave your information requesting barn cats. Believe me, there are many cats, friendly strays, that need barn homes and some do look like purebred Siamese. I suggest you do that instead of trying to breed moggy Siamese.

Willowy said:

We are heading into kitten season---you should start seeing kitten ads pretty soon, and they'll be fairly steady until June or so.

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I was thinking about this and I need to amend it somewhat. In Northern climates, most cats get pregnant in January or February. So they're only just now starting to give birth, and it'll be a couple months before you can take the kittens away from their mother. So you probably won't see any ads until the beginning of May. But I can guarantee there won't be any shortage of farm kittens needing homes, in the right season.

The kittens just being born around here now.  I will probably find some at a later date.  I have a line on a year old female that is Siamese colour, that I am going to go see.    From there what I do, will be a secret, and trial and error................ There are  a lot of people out there that are abusive animal owners that don't  feed and/or care for their animals.  That is not a description of  me.

I have opinions too, but I guess I will keep them to myself, so I don' get banned............ But when I learn something....... I will share it with others.  

Thanks for the help, I have learned form those willing to stop judging long enough to teach..................

I'm glad that you're here to learn, that's always a good thing. In that spirit, here are some links for related articles on our site - 

About Breeding Cats

So you think you want to become a breeder?

Siamese Cats

Note that Siamese cats are not what you're thinking of breeding. You're talking about colorpoints, not Siamese cats.

Thank-you for the articles.  You are absolutely right......The people on here helped me define my goals.  I have cancelled the Pure Siamese kittens.

I want the Siamese colour without the Siamese attitude AND I want some selection for ratting.

I picked up a really nice 1 year old seal point female today.  She was in desperate need of a home.  The home where she was living was so full of smoke you couldn't even breath in there.   She is  a  smaller than a Siamese, and much quieter but still a beautiful little cat. I think she has been bounced from place to place by the sounds of things.  The sad part is that they found my add looking for a Siamese coloured barn cat, while looking for an add for a new kitten, while not wanting the one they had.

I'm still not sure why you would want to breed her. There are so many colorpointed domestic cats looking for good homes, just like your new kitty. Why breed more when so many are being put to sleep for lack of good homes, each and every year? I honestly don't see the point in this, no pun intended. Surely there are easier ways to make money, with less financial risk and less moral baggage?

By risk, I'm talking about financial risks. You have to put a lot of money into testing the cats for disease, make sure she's not FIV positive or FeLV positive, is parasite free etc. Then, all it takes is a birth complication and a possible need for a c-section and you get zero profit and probably end up in the red. I haven't even started talking about the cost of quality food for the cats, routine vet care etc. Honestly, sounds like the poor kitty has been through so much, and you sound like a good caring person who loves animals. Please consider just getting her spayed and giving her a good forever home, with good care and lots of love, or else working with a local rescue group to help her find that.