Kidney disease

Ms. Freya · Feb 28, 2014

This is one I was hoping never to come across, but if I'm honest with myself about the type of cat that tends to find its way to my house, I shouldn't be suprised.

Wendel has kidney disease.

We don't know much yet - have to phone the vet tomorrow to see about changing his diet and other treatments. He shows no symptoms. Has a lovely coat, good muscle mass and a solid weight of 12-ish pounds. Apparently his BUN is still relatively normal but his CREA is climbing. It showed a bit high inhis dental back in late December and a retest today showed it climbing. I don't think its too advanced yet, but with the FIV our vet is pretty aggressive with Wendel's treatmemt plans and sounds like he will be with this too.

My boy is 6 in April...you guys know I'll do whatever I need to for my guys, but if anyone has experience keeping this in check I'd love some suggestions.

Now I'm off to read the kidney threads.

scarlett 001 · Feb 28, 2014

How is his phosphorus? If it is even somewhat high, controlling high phosphorus is important, as uncontrolled high phosphorus can accelerate kidney breakdown. So I would ask about the phosphorus. Tanya's CRF web site has great information about phosphorus. I have some cats in Grade 2 kidney disease (creatinine is relatively low, but the beginnings are there) and the only "treatment" I am doing so far is to try some control of phosphorus food intake as their phosphorus levels were a bit higher than ideal.

scarlett 001 · Feb 28, 2014

BTW if you do need to go to the lower phosphorus wet foods (or dry), I've been doing loads of homework on brands that meet the criteria so can offer some suggestions as to what ones are working for my gang. In early stages, you want to keep protein levels high so the prescription kidney foods are not a good choice for that reason as they are low phosphorus but also low protein - besides they seem to be unappetizing for cats anyhow.

Ms. Freya · Feb 28, 2014

I'd love to hear any food suggestions. That will be tricky with 2 other cats in the house. We'll find out more about his other levels tomorrow.

Oddly, my brother has CRD so reading up on this seems very familiar.

cprcheetah · Feb 28, 2014

My 14 year old kitty was just diagnosed with stage 2 kidney disease so I am on the researching path as well a few websites and information I have found helpful:

http://felinecrf.org/

http://felinecrf.com/

http://www.holisticat.com/en/chronic-diseases/41-crf.html?showall=&limitstart= (talks more about holistic treatments).

I decided to feed DeeJay high quality protein, low carb diet, low phophorus diet. I switched her to raw about 3 weeks ago and she is doing great so far. She was only eating 1/4 to 1/2 of her canned food and walking away, she now eats her entire meal in one sitting in about a minute. She loves it. While it isn't the best option for everyone it sure seems to be helping DeeJay. As mentioned above, phosphorus levels are important so if you know what those are, you may need to put your cat on a phosphorus binder. Deejay is the opposite of your kitty, her BUN is climbing and her CREA is still within normal ranges on the lab values however it is in the stage 2 according to the websites and research I have found. Her Phophorus is also elevated so I will be starting her on a phosphorus binder.

buddybellamom · Feb 28, 2014

I too have a furbaby with kidney disease, he's about to turn 2 next month...all of his levels are way high, and we are giving sub q fluids daily. He was close to death we believe at the end of January, but now, unless you KNOW he has kidney disease, you'd never guess. We've got him eating and gaining weight, he is full of energy more than when he was a young kitten, and he looks happy and healthy.

At this point, he is on a phosphorus binder, so the vet hasn't really talked about feeding any other food that what I give him. We have changed him to all wet, I am researching better foods, and even considering raw.

Sorry you guys have kitties with this issue, it's so sad to see our furry babies sick.

BBM

denichet · Feb 28, 2014

Hi - my beloved Rascal was just diagnosed with kidney disease. I was so emotional not expecting him to tell me that, and due to the sudden death of my best friend, I am on this site now. He did not tell me about changing his diet. I need to know - how and what foods can I get him to eat. I do not know his phosphorous levels. I am going in tomorrow to find that out. He did not eat well yesterday and today he ate better after he was a given an anti-nausoue medication and his antihistamine. He is HIV positive. He has never been sick but once in the 7 years I have had him.

He is hanging his head over his bed and not really moving around too much. Does that mean he is nauseous.

Can someone please help me out? I bought baby food and put it in a syringe. He was so sweet and did not struggle. Gave him a pepcitde tablet earlier at 1/4 - but I don't know how many to give per day.

I am a good animal nurse. I nursed Buddy, who had diabetes and he lived for 3 years until he died of cancer.

scarlett 001 · Feb 28, 2014

Denichet said:
Hi - my beloved Rascal was just diagnosed with kidney disease. I was so emotional not expecting him to tell me that, and due to the sudden death of my best friend, I am on this site now. He did not tell me about changing his diet. I need to know - how and what foods can I get him to eat. I do not know his phosphorous levels. I am going in tomorrow to find that out. He did not eat well yesterday and today he ate better after he was a given an anti-nausoue medication and his antihistamine. He is HIV positive. He has never been sick but once in the 7 years I have had him.

He is hanging his head over his bed and not really moving around too much. Does that mean he is nauseous.

Can someone please help me out? I bought baby food and put it in a syringe. He was so sweet and did not struggle. Gave him a pepcitde tablet earlier at 1/4 - but I don't know how many to give per day.

I am a good animal nurse. I nursed Buddy, who had diabetes and he lived for 3 years until he died of cancer.

I would join the CRF Yahoo group - free to join. It is a very focused group with loads of people who could help you out. Do you know how to find Yahoo groups? You just need to create a free Yahoo group and then search for the CRF group and make a request to join.

Ms. Freya · Mar 1, 2014

Well, we're early stage 1...so thats good. We have a new diet to try and a daily pill to try and stop the climbing CREA. Currently he's in the mid 200s, but the vet is worried that his FIV will make it harder to control long term if we don't start now, so wish us luck. So far its just the CREA thats outside normal, but we have to go bavk for a urine test in a few weeks.

scarlett 001 · Mar 1, 2014

Did you read Tanya's web site? I think on Tanya's web site that Stage 2 begins at Creatinine >140 (international units) and up to about 250. Stage 1 is basically any cat below 140 - the cat could have normal kidneys or early changes, but nothing is detectable in testing - so they just lump it as Stage 1. Stage 2 is still early stages. Stage 1 is a weird stage as the cat might be perfectly normal or not. The strange part is that cats in Stage 2 still show up in "normal range" on the IDEXX reference range. Or maybe your vet has a different criteria for staging, but Tanya's web site refers to some international standard I believe.

mrsgreenjeens · Mar 1, 2014

Denichet said:
Hi - my beloved Rascal was just diagnosed with kidney disease. I was so emotional not expecting him to tell me that, and due to the sudden death of my best friend, I am on this site now. He did not tell me about changing his diet. I need to know - how and what foods can I get him to eat. I do not know his phosphorous levels. I am going in tomorrow to find that out. He did not eat well yesterday and today he ate better after he was a given an anti-nausoue medication and his antihistamine. He is HIV positive. He has never been sick but once in the 7 years I have had him.

He is hanging his head over his bed and not really moving around too much. Does that mean he is nauseous.

Can someone please help me out? I bought baby food and put it in a syringe. He was so sweet and did not struggle. Gave him a pepcitde tablet earlier at 1/4 - but I don't know how many to give per day.

I am a good animal nurse. I nursed Buddy, who had diabetes and he lived for 3 years until he died of cancer.

Denichet, it would probably be best if you start up your own thread to discuss your furbaby, as each situation is different even though, in this instance, it sounds like both these cats have FIV and kidney disease. That being said, it's probably still best to have your own thread, as the treatments, food questions, etc, may be different. But it's always good to look at ALL the different threads and ask questions about what happening with each cat to gain knowledge for your own. In the meantime, did you look at those websites mentioned above. They are VERY insightful. I, too, have a kidney cat, and refer to those sites often. My last kidney cat got 1/4 of a Pepcid A/C tablet THREE times a day, hidden in treats. It seemed to make a world of difference to how he felt. My current kidney cat isn't on Pepcid A/C yet, but I do give her Slippery Elm Bark (either in syrup form or in a Vet's Best chewable tablet) which is also good for nausea.

I am quite shocked that your Vet did not discuss food with you, as this is normally the first step in "treating" kidney disease. Cats with kidney disease need to take in as much water as possible, so canned food is best, even watered down canned food, especially if they don't drink a lot, however, most kidney cats DO drink lots...that's how most pet parents figure out they have a problem

. anyway, as mentioned above, depending on what stage your little guy is in, you probably want a food that is high in protein, medium to high in fat, LOW in phosphorus, and I personally look for low carbs. And, of course, something our cats will eat

. They make kidney foods especially for this ailment, but most cats do not like them. So, here is a chart that you can refer to to try to find something that fits what you are looking for: http://catinfo.org/docs/FoodChartPhosphorus9-22-12.pdf Use the column labeled Dry Matter %, and this chart is in order based on low phosphorus. There is another in alpha order which I can provide. Not all foods are on here, especially if you are not located in the U.S.

Ms. Freya said:
Well, we're early stage 1...so thats good. We have a new diet to try and a daily pill to try and stop the climbing CREA. Currently he's in the mid 200s, but the vet is worried that his FIV will make it harder to control long term if we don't start now, so wish us luck. So far its just the CREA thats outside normal, but we have to go bavk for a urine test in a few weeks.

Just curious, what is the daily pill you will be trying? Is it Azodyl or something like that? If so, that thing is the size of a horse pill

. My Callie is a tiny little thing, but she can fight me like a tiger when I try to pill her

. I swear, that pill is bigger than her throat, so that's a no-go for us. I tried some OTC kidney supplements, but even at age 14, she can smell ANYTHING foreign in her food. The things most cats like, she hates, so those didn't work either, even inside treats. Both her brothers ate them when I just tossed them on the floor, but not the cat who needed them....noooooooo

buddybellamom · Mar 1, 2014

mrsgreenjeens said:
Denichet, it would probably be best if you start up your own thread to discuss your furbaby, as each situation is different even though, in this instance, it sounds like both these cats have FIV and kidney disease. That being said, it's probably still best to have your own thread, as the treatments, food questions, etc, may be different. But it's always good to look at ALL the different threads and ask questions about what happening with each cat to gain knowledge for your own. In the meantime, did you look at those websites mentioned above. They are VERY insightful. I, too, have a kidney cat, and refer to those sites often. My last kidney cat got 1/4 of a Pepcid A/C tablet THREE times a day, hidden in treats. It seemed to make a world of difference to how he felt. My current kidney cat isn't on Pepcid A/C yet, but I do give her Slippery Elm Bark (either in syrup form or in a Vet's Best chewable tablet) which is also good for nausea.

I am quite shocked that your Vet did not discuss food with you, as this is normally the first step in "treating" kidney disease. Cats with kidney disease need to take in as much water as possible, so canned food is best, even watered down canned food, especially if they don't drink a lot, however, most kidney cats DO drink lots...that's how most pet parents figure out they have a problem

. anyway, as mentioned above, depending on what stage your little guy is in, you probably want a food that is high in protein, medium to high in fat, LOW in phosphorus, and I personally look for low carbs. And, of course, something our cats will eat

. They make kidney foods especially for this ailment, but most cats do not like them. So, here is a chart that you can refer to to try to find something that fits what you are looking for: http://catinfo.org/docs/FoodChartPhosphorus9-22-12.pdf Use the column labeled Dry Matter %, and this chart is in order based on low phosphorus. There is another in alpha order which I can provide. Not all foods are on here, especially if you are not located in the U.S.

Just curious, what is the daily pill you will be trying? Is it Azodyl or something like that? If so, that thing is the size of a horse pill

. My Callie is a tiny little thing, but she can fight me like a tiger when I try to pill her

. I swear, that pill is bigger than her throat, so that's a no-go for us. I tried some OTC kidney supplements, but even at age 14, she can smell ANYTHING foreign in her food. The things most cats like, she hates, so those didn't work either, even inside treats. Both her brothers ate them when I just tossed them on the floor, but not the cat who needed them....noooooooo

MrsGreenJeans, I would be interested in your other alpha list of foods. And if I may, a question: when you (or others) talk about looking for a low carb food, how is that defined actually? What percentage should I look not to go above? It has been a maddening few weeks while I read all about CKD, food choices and med choices!

I am currently still trying to settle on a food; I do give my Buddy a phosphorus binder, so I have not been too overly worried about phosphorus. I have been feeding a combo of Friskies pates in chicken and turkey, and some other brands that I have read about here. I see that on the chart (I have that chart bookmarked and have referred to it often), THE lowest phos foods are Science Diet -- but I hear things elsewhere about SD that aren't so good, so I am torn.

Thanks for the info!

BBM

buddybellamom · Mar 1, 2014

mrsgreengeens, I would be interested in that other list, if you don't mind. Also, what's the line for deciding if something is low carb or not? I notice from the chart (which I have saved and look to often) that Science Diet are at the top of the low phos foods. I have seen some not so good comments about SD here and other places though, so I have not actually tried any yet.

Currently I am trying out Wellness, EVO, Performatrin Ultra (which they went crazy for tonight), and I do still give some Friskies. All are pate, as that is what they will eat. Only one of my cats is CKD, but I am feeding them both the same foods. I am also researching/considering going raw (maybe).

Thanks for the input.

BBM

Ms. Freya · Mar 1, 2014

mrsgreenjeens said:
Just curious, what is the daily pill you will be trying? Is it Azodyl or something like that? If so, that thing is the size of a horse pill :lol3: . My Callie is a tiny little thing, but she can fight me like a tiger when I try to pill her . I swear, that pill is bigger than her throat, so that's a no-go for us. I tried some OTC kidney supplements, but even at age 14, she can smell ANYTHING foreign in her food. The things most cats like, she hates, so those didn't work either, even inside treats. Both her brothers ate them when I just tossed them on the floor, but not the cat who needed them....noooooooo

Its Fortekor...pretty small so I should be able to hide it in his food. So far he had mostly kidney food with a bit of regular mixed in for dinner and devoured it. Fortunately Wendel is our least picky eater. Our vet was suprised when we said we'd to all wet food. Everything so far just seems to indicate thats best and I'd like to give my big guy the best chance to get this under control quickly. I figure if we ever know we'll be away, wee'll get a small bag of kidney kibble, but otherwise he loves canned, so all wet won't be a hardship for him.

Scarlett - sorry that should have been a 2. I was updating on my phone and am a terrible typist on the thing.

And of course this shows up a month before we move out of the area and away from our vet of 8 years. :sigh:

mrsgreenjeens · Mar 2, 2014

BellaBuddyMom, here is the list in Alpha Order: http://www.catinfo.org/docs/FoodChartPublic9-22-12.pdf

For low carb, I shoot for anything less than 10%. Since you are using phosphorus binders, that gives you a much larger option for foods, as I find must low carb foods have HIGH phosphorus

Of course, Raw is going to the least amount of carbs. I WAS feeding my girl raw which she was diagnosed, but she had been on kibble for 12 years prior to starting on raw, so I think the damage had already been done to her kidneys

. Naturaly, ow that I really NEED to control what she is eating, she's decided to become extremely picky (as most kidney cats do) and won't eat either raw OR homecooked food.

If you DO go with raw, may I suggest NOT to feed bone, though, and to use eggshell powder as your source of calcium. That's what my Vet and I discussed. Also, egg yolks are much too high in phosphorus too..

Ms Freya, Fortekor is something that isn't prescribed in the U.S. It's really a heart medication that does double duty for kidney disease! Here's hoping it helps Wendel

If nothing else, it should keep him from getting high blood pressure, which is yet another worry with kidney cats, sometimes.

Ms. Freya · Mar 3, 2014

Well, so far so good with the food. He's still enthusiastically eating it. Unfortunately Sybil has decided that she wants it too...and of course it's made with chicken - her allergen. So mealtimes are a bit of a negotiation at the moment since the three of them have to see each other to eat.

We're going to have to re-jig the budget, though. Kidney food is not cheap - almost $3 a can and he eats one a day! One question. The feeding guidelines say he should be getting 1 1/4 cans a day, but I know those are usually big portions and based on the caloric content of his usual meal - that's tons of food and he doesn't finish it, so right now I've been giving him a can a day - much closer to his usual caloric intake and am slowly working on upping it, but he's not a gorger and will stop when he's full.

Does anyone think there will be a problem with that?

mrsgreenjeens · Mar 3, 2014

Most cat food in general says to feed way more than is necessary! I can't say for certain because my kidney cats never liked the kidney food, but I would think 1 can per day would be sufficient. I guess the only real way to tell is whether or not he keeps the weight on, AND whether or not you start to feel the bones on his spine or anywhere else.

chihuac · Mar 18, 2014

I just wanted to contribute to this thread because I sadly just found out today that my beloved orange and white tabby Pilsen is also looking like he has kidney disease. His BUN is ok but his creatinine is at 3.7...which I believe is possibly stage 3?

Anyway, I'm devastated, as he is basically my baby of 14 years (he was a stray rescue from the city streets and has since been a very spoiled much loved cat), but this also helps to explain why he's been losing his appetite steadily and losing so much weight. Now I'm beating myself up about not noticing earlier when he'd gradually stopped eating as much

My vet spouted a lot of numbers at me but didn't do a great job of explaining exactly what to expect and what the possibilities for Pilsen are. It all seemed very vague. I scoured felinecrf.org and have slowly been reading up, but honestly, it's all a bit overwhelming to me. Luckily, Pilsen seems to be happy and not suffering or in pain.

A few newbie questions:

-There seems to be a lot of conflicting info about low protein special kidney diets vs. other quality protein low phosphorous foods. I have a few days before my vet gets back to me w/ the final results of a further urinalysis and the actual k/d food...in the meantime, is there any regular commercial food I can feed a cat who's allergic to chicken/turkey/duck but won't strain his kidneys too much? He will not eat more than a teaspoon of raw, so canned is what I'm looking at.

-Pilsen is drinking a lot of water, but his urine is not concentrated. I read many ppl put their cats on sub-q treatment. Is this necessary when the cat is still drinking tons of water, or is it a later-stages sort of thing?

-Lastly, if you guys have any practical advice on how to deal w/ this emotionally -- ie, is it pretty normal for a cat to get this and live a lot longer? or is it definitely gonna be a swift decline? because i'm battling a whole slew of emotions here, but also not sure if i'm jumping the gun and it's a thing that can be treated and lived with normally for years...

Any helpful advice would be enormously appreciated.

Ms. Freya · Mar 28, 2014

Update:

Wendel got his latest round of blood work back yesterday and the diet + Fortekor has brought his levels back in the normal range.

We haven't successfully been able to get a urine sample, but the vet's recommended we try to do that soon to check phosphorus, but keep up the prescription diet and medication. I've mostly figured out how to get everyone to eat their own food, so after a few harrowing weeks, I don't have to police them quite so much at mealtimes. I can tell Wendel's a bit bored of the prescription food, but I found out it now comes in a second flavor and if I heat it up a bit for him (so it smells) he's much more enthusiastic about it.

So that's where we are. I'm hoping that we caught this early enough that it will be enough to keep him stable for a good long time.

mrsgreenjeens · Mar 28, 2014

Ms. Freya said:
Update:

Wendel got his latest round of blood work back yesterday and the diet + Fortekor has brought his levels back in the normal range.

We haven't successfully been able to get a urine sample, but the vet's recommended we try to do that soon to check phosphorus, but keep up the prescription diet and medication. I've mostly figured out how to get everyone to eat their own food, so after a few harrowing weeks, I don't have to police them quite so much at mealtimes. I can tell Wendel's a bit bored of the prescription food, but I found out it now comes in a second flavor and if I heat it up a bit for him (so it smells) he's much more enthusiastic about it.

So that's where we are. I'm hoping that we caught this early enough that it will be enough to keep him stable for a good long time.

Wonderful news

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