Two Feral Kittens - One ready for adoption, the other still needs so much work. Help/advice truly ne

deannaneedshelp

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Good evening-
I rescued some feral kittens about 6 wks ago from under a building's crawl space. The manager wanted to kill them. (This is the first time I have ever done this, and I didn't get much instruction from the group I am working with.) They are now estimated to be about 3 months old. I had (and still somewhat have) the support of this adoption organization here in LA, but they are starting to be very flaky and backing out of some of their promises. One kitten, Helios (Heely) is great and he is ready for adoption. He has progressed so much. He has a fantastic personality, plays, sleeps with me on the couch and in bed, and loves giving kisses! I am now sort of on my own in trying to get him adopted.

The other kitten Romy, however, isn't progressing as well as would like, and I really just need help & advice!! I know that even though you may do the same training, one may not progress the same. She will do well and make some progressions like lying next to me in bed and allow me to walk up to her and pet her, but will then revert to being hand shy and nervous. She is usually quite squirmy after being held for a minute or two. I want her to be adoptable, but I don't know what else to do, as I have tried everything that I have found on so many websites. I have done tons of research and find the same sorts of advice on most of them. Any different kind of advice you have would be greatly appreciated.

I have quite severe fybromya, gia and caring for these wonderful kittens has been quite taxing on my health. The process of seeing them provress as thry have has been really rewarding of course.
Thank you so kindly,
Deanna

Romy - Shy but sweet and loving

Heely - The playful, cuddly purr machine
 

StefanZ

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Originally Posted by DeannaNeedsHe She is usually quite squirmy after being held for a minute or two.
Ah, the key is not to let them become in this situation.  Ie, you let them down at latest when you notice they wants down, preferably earlierl.

Not all cats are lap cats or loves to be handheld.

But friendliness comes with time...

Another tip is the burrito-wrap tip.  Have you seen it, or even tried?  Our forumist Catwoman707 has described it.

I will write more tomorrow, if nobody else writes good answers, its late evening here now and I must go to bed.

Good luck!
 
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deannaneedshelp

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StefanZ-

I have tried tucking her into my fuzzy robe and hold her there. She is ok with, usually at night when she is tired. I have tried the towel wrap, but don't think I did it right. I don't know how to "papoose" her while she is squiry. I don't want to stress her out trying to wrap her up. I will try to find more specific instructions on the best way to do it.

I am curious how often I should try to hold her. A couple times a day? Do I do it for short periods or try for longer periods of time? I am a bit confused on some of the basic details. The only answer I get from my organization is that "all cats are different". Duh. I knew that!
 
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deannaneedshelp

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Another question: I have seen the one step forward, two steps back ideas from many fosters. How do you overcome the frustration with this? I am trying so hard to patient, but I wonder if little Romy will ever continue with her progress.

I went up to her while she was dozing in a chair and lightly began to pet her favorite areas. She is a sucker for an ear, chin and cheek scritch. There are times when I do this, like tonight, when she will actually move her head towards me, wanting more. She then actually followed me off her chair and came into my lap and wanted more. That was so new and wonderful...I almost cried! But then she didn't want it just a bit later and when I tried to wrap her up to hold her, she squirmed out and the scritching was not wanted or helpful to calm her. Is this progress or just a one moment happening?

What tips might anyone have to try to help her continue to progress that I mighr not have thought of? How do I properly papoose/burrito her? I am thinking of getting that plug-in calming diffuser. Has anyone had any success with that? I know I am asking a lot of questions, but I am still a novice at this and this is the first place I have found where people are so ready and willing to help.

Thanks to all!
Deanna
 
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deannaneedshelp

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I am sorry that I keep replying to my own posts, but I tried the "burrito" wrap thing and it did not go well at all. I felt absolutely horrible. Confining her like that felt like torture to her. She wriggled, tried to bury herself in the towel, cried, and cried. I had to let her out of it as I bawled for doing that to her. Now she doesn't want me to touch her. Maybe I am anthropomorphizing too much, but that just seemed too much like trapping her. I don't think I could try that again. Hopefully there is more out there I can try.

Using food helps temporarily. Petting her favorite areas work temporarily. Etc, etc. I know she won't just suddenly be a lap cat, but I have been trying for 6 weeks. I do see progress from where she started from, but not remotely the same as the other kitten. I am so frustrated and scared for her. I don't show that to her, but I just can't think of what else to do. No one other than StefanZ
 
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deannaneedshelp

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Darn it! Can someone tell me how to edit or delete posts???? Not being able to do this is very frustrating.

I was stating that only StefanZ has responded, so I please hope that others will join in too.
 

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Hi, Deanna :) You cannot edit posts until you have been signed up to the site for a time. The delete option is never available, as far as I know. To delete a post, you have to PM a moderator.

I would think the best thing to do would be to continue petting her while she eats. Six weeks seems like a long time, but it is not, really, when you think of it in terms of domesticating a wild animal. The fact you can pet her at all sounds like good progress to me! The other kitty sounds like the atypical one. Keep on petting and speaking softly to her, and gradually work up to holding her and handling her more often.

We had to do this with one of my formerly- strays. We started with one pick up a day, and it did not go well at first. I just picked her up and put her back down straight away. After a week or so, I could hold her a for little bit longer. Gradually, over weeks, the hold time got longer and longer.

Honestly, some cats simply don't like to be handled. Bob is still not terribly thrilled about being picked up. Slow and steady, with lots of softly spoken praise and treats usually gets good results.

A Feliway plug-in may help to calm her down. They plug into a wall socket, like an air freshener, and emit calming pheromones. Many Cat Site members swear by them.
 
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StefanZ

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I went up to her while she was dozing in a chair and lightly began to pet her favorite areas. She is a sucker for an ear, chin and cheek scritch. There are times when I do this, like tonight, when she will actually move her head towards me, wanting more. She then actually followed me off her chair and came into my lap and wanted more. That was so new and wonderful...I almost cried! But then she didn't want it just a bit later and when I tried to wrap her up to hold her, she squirmed out and the scritching was not wanted or helpful to calm her. Is this progress or just a one moment happening?

 
In this example, you should let her go when she had enough fo cuddle.

The burrito session you could make at another occasion. The pedagogical doing here was, let her feel the joy and pleasure of voluntary cuddle, and when she has enough, she is free to go = just pure enjoyment for her and for you.

So here you got your unvoluntary example of one step forward, two step backwards...
 
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deannaneedshelp

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Romy is much worse now. She doesn't let me come near her and doesn't want me to pet her or pick her up at all. This isn't two steps back, it is one month back. I have no idea what I am doing. I am a total novice. And because of my fibro, I am very sick and in constant severe pain. The exertion of all this is more than what most normal people feel.

I simply cannot take either kitten to a shelter. Doing that is out of the question, as I cannot have them caged up like that. I am desperately trying to look for other adoption groups that can help, but there are so many; they all have different regulations and allowances and don't want to jump into the middle of this process. I basically feel abandoned by the group I was working with. They were going to do all the adoption process, but have thrown it back into my lap, knowing I have no idea how to do that, much less try to properly socialize them.

I have been lucky that one kitten has done extremely well and is ready for adoption. The other that I have been discussing ...well, it seems like whatever I do for her does nothing. I cry for both her and myself, as I don't know if I can keep doing this. I know that dedication is necessary, but my group was supposed to take care of a lot of what I am now forced to figure out on my own.

Sorry, but I just feel completely overwhelmed. I thought I was doing a good thing for these defenseless kittens, but it all seems to have backfired on me and them as well. Do other people feel like this? Has this happened to others as well? What did you do?

Again, thank you so kindly,
Deanna
 

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Hi Deanna!

First, take a step back yourself and try to relax. If you are stressed , the cat will feel stressed too. With your health, take care of yourself first :)

I suggest to try not to pick her up as much, and if you do, a brief hug.

I also suggest letting her come to you on her own terms. Try to just sit in the same room with her and just talk. Let her hear your voice- read a book out loud.

Play some Bach. I hear that's relaxing to cats.

Sit on the floor when giving her treats. Make a little trail of treats to your lap so she learns a lap is a good thing. Try not to pet her in this stage.. Let her know your lap first.

And remember, she may never be snuggle like Heely. One of my cats hates to be picked up and is not a lap cat at all. He would sometimes climb into my lap when I scratch his ears but it's not common. But he will happily lay near me within arms reach for a pet.
 
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ondine

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I second Draco's sentiments.  Try to relax and pay attention to your own health first.  Any other approach will only hurt you and make the cats nervous.

Some cats are just not lap cats.  Forcing her will backfire, period.  If the burrito makes you uncomfortable, it will make her uncomfortable.  Don't use it if that happens.

One thing I've always done is to simply ignore time.  The fosters are my cats until I find them a home.  That way, I put no artificial limits on their stay, I take it a day at a time.  It doesn't always work - I get nervous about having so many cats but usually, I can relax and enjoy the time they have with me.

You are doing the right thing.  Please try to remember that and give yourself some props for it!
 

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He Deanna and welcome AND a big giant :thanks: for rescuing these babies. :hugs: :hugs: And, YES, this is very, very, very common to have major setbacks like you are experiencing. Not to worry. :alright: You are doing a GREAT job too. The steps forward, when they come, will be great and that I can assure you. I am short on time right now but will be back later to try to help with some more suggestions as I need to thoroughly read through your posts first. :nod: BUT, in the meantime, here is an article that will help answer some of your questions and help you with some suggestions on how to socialize. I, and others here, have socialized many, many kittens AND adult feral cats. It can be done and takes much patience on the guardian's part as all of the ferals are so different in their innate personalities. What works to bring one out of their zone may not work for another. There are the basic techniques to follow and you just have to leave the rest up to them!!! Most DO come around. Will check back later. :hugs:

Article --- http://www.catnipchronicles.com/may2012/laurie.htm
 
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shadowsrescue

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Here is a video that shows feral kittens being rescued and then how they socialize them.  It is a 3 part series, but I will just post the first one for you.
As you will see in the videos, Gerber stage 2 baby food is a must.  It really works wonders.  I socialized a feral kitten who was 7 months old.  It is still a work in progress and he is now 4!!  I had lots and lots of set backs along the way, but the success has been amazing.  I still use the baby food when I need to work with him. 

A few other suggestions are to always talk softly and move slowly.  Make sure you are on the ground not looming over the them.  Play soft music.  I downloaded some animal harp music from Amazon onto my ipod and played it whenever I wasn't with my cats.  They loved it.  Feliway adapters are calming to many cats.  Composure feline treats also help to calm (not sedate) frightened cats.  I also used Feral Cat Rehab Flower essences from Spirit Essences.  It worked very well. 

Make visits fun and memorable.  Enter the room or cat area with a special treat.  Even if the cat doesn't eat it in your presence, leave the treat.  Have you tried playing?  Laser pointers, toy mice, wand toys are favorites as are string and balls.  Start slowly as you don't want to frighten them.  When you leave the room, give another special treat.  Make sure the treats are something really yummy.  You can get dehydrated chicken, turkey, salmon or just use small pieces of cooked plain chicken, tuna or salmon.  This will allow the cats to associate you with good things.  Just be consistent each time.

As mentioned above, watch your stress level.  If you are stressed and worried, they will be too.  Relax and learn to enjoy your time with them.  The rewards of socializing ferals cats is huge.  It just takes loads of time and patience. 

Also remember that not all cats will be loving and lap kitties.  Some are just naturally more shy, reserved and quiet.  Some like pets more than others too.  Also remember that 6 weeks with a feral cat is not all that long.  Is there any possibility you might keep the shy kitten yourself?

Thank you for rescuing these little ones.  You have done amazing work with them. 
 

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Hi Deanna!

Gosh I wish I had seen your thread yesterday.

I'm the one that StefanZ referring to the burrito wrapping kittens was mentioning.

Unfortunately this would have needed to be done at a younger age, when it is very effective. Even a couple weeks ago, but now at about 3 months old, it will be such a struggle for her and she will resist it rather than submit to it, as a younger one will.

You have recieved some great advice and helpful tips here so far. They all will help, talking softly, being low/on her level, etc.

I understand that it's a problem when you are merely fostering rather than allowing the kitten time to tame to you that you will be keeping.
I have been in your shoes more than I can tell you. (I have a cat rescue group)

Here is my view of the situation.
At 3 months old, she is mentally who she is, and will always be shy/scared, until she gets adopted and is allowed months to become secure and trusting, and will warm up well to her new family in time, her own time by the way.
You may work more with her now and it may help a little bit, but the minute she is around strangers she will hide and act terrified all over again.

That being said, don't wear yourself out with this. She is not going to become a social little girl, she will only be good with the one family who adopts her and allows her time to come around.

I might very well get attacked on here by people who swear a kitten can be completely tamed at her age, and sure they can, but only with them, try and have strangers come over the house and see if they are social and coming up to them to say HI! No, they don't.
Mentally, after 8 weeks, they are always going to be who they are then with people in general. Remember, this is not meaning she will not be fine with time after she is adopted.

I would try finding her a home asap, while she is small-ish, before kitten season comes and there are a ton of baby kittens everywhere, and she will be alot bigger, and before you know it she will be a teenager, a big girl by the time all the kittens are taken.
This IS her time right now.

Post her, get her on petfinder, craigslist, and so on.
Choose a quiet home, not with young kids and dogs, other cats maybe but.....you know, a calm, easier to adapt to type of home.
Be sure they understand she needs time to warm up, etc. but get her out there while she has a chance, which is while she is still small.

Otherwise it may end up to where she will need to be an indoor/outdoor mouser or some other type home, and of course you would rather her go to a loving indoor home.


If you want to continue to work with her until she gets a home, do it with food. Pull her food, she should no longer have free access. Use her hunger and food to your advantage, it is the ONLY thing that will make her come to you.
She will hold out for a bit, but the hungry tummy quickly outweighs the fear. Offer it in your hand, or a dish on your tummy while laying down, etc.
When she finally comes to you (ONLY!) for the food, as soon as she starts to eat, begin to pet her, increasing it to lavishly petting her.
She will soon be more comfortable again being near you.
 

StefanZ

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I must add some om my experiences of our oldest resident.  He is home raised, born by a reputable breeder.  But quite shy.   We knew Russian blue are often shy, so we accepted this without question.  (he is more shy then most RB, but that is another story).

  In much he behaves like such a fostered adult ex feral, Catwoman describes.

He has learned me much about the behavior of the shy cats. Leading me to believe much of the behavior of fostered ex-semiferales, is really not because they are ex-semiferales, but because they are shy...

For example, this with not wanting to be carried. Nor being a lap cat. Although he doesnt mind to lie and rest near you.  Or even sleep in the bed at your feet or between your knees.

Being a home raised cat, he was friendly with us, and showed in many ways he liked us. But as young he wasnt much for cuddles, it come later with time, when he was full grown adult.

He was never fond of being carried.  and he didnt liked to be cuddled standing on the floor.  But if he was lying comfortably on a bed, it was easier to cuddle and stroke him.

So with time he and we learned.  If he saw we wanted to cuddle, and he was on the floor, he jumped up on a bed or sofa, lied down, and then we could cuddle him a good while, till he got tired and went.  (or made a threating motion, so we knew he had enough for now).

My wife being his beloved Mom, could carry him some.   I was forced to take it more piano.

So I was anxious to do it just a short while, and let him down as soon I noticed he wanted down - preferably a little earlier...      In one memorable occasion I couldnt let him down, being at the vets, doors not closed.  He climbed out, drawing lotsa of blood...  And disappeared.... but this is another story...  Btw, me engaging in rescue and fostering, and advising online such people, comes from this moment 10 years ago, as a repay for God saving this loved life.   And also, seeking after him, I noticed there were apparently lotsa of dumped cats.  It was not only something a myth from the USA...

Today, he still doesnt like to be carried much.  But he likes it, as long as I dont overdo it.  He is spinning, working pleased with his paws, etc...   After a while he had enough, and wants down.

You can cuddle him almost as long as you want, if he is lying down.  Standing on floor? yes, but short.   He is a great family member, but as always, shy to strangers, and watchful for any suspicious sounds or movements.

Although he isnt afraid of the New Year fireworks.

So yes, I think I second Catwomans suggestion.  If you can find someone, a family, who doesnt mind to have a shy cat, and is ready to do some fostering, it may be best to let them adopt her now, yes.
 
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deannaneedshelp

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She has made a few improvements!! Your suggestions really helped a lot! I just let her alone for a while unless it was feeding or playing time. I have used the treats to lead to my lap and then lightly pet her. I totally bribe her by scritching her favorite spots!! Last night and today she let me pet her without treats and she even crawled around me on the floor looking for more! So awesome.

I take time to seperate her from my two cats and especially Heely so she doesn't overly ly on them and learns to find that I can comfort her and play with her.

I also remembered some things I did w Heely and fed her and played with her on the bed. Then I just let her come and go as she pleased. While she played again later, she let me pet her. She would come and go, but then she stayed on the bed and fell asleep about a foot or two from me. Sooooo cool!

Just now, I patted the bed, and she jogged across the room and jumped up here. Mind you, I think she thought my bag of trail mix were treats! But when she found out they weren't, she still let me pet her and jumped up on some cushions and is taking a nap. Some realy nice steps.

She will still get hand shy or scooch away from me, so I just let her go her way. She still needs work of course, but I am trying to focus on each little step. Thank you so much everyone! I really was stressing myself out. And my high pain levels do not help. The group I am with are very skeptical about her. They know all cats aren't lap cats, but they expect "adoptable" kittens to all meet the same criteria. I guess they have me more stressed about herand her "potential" too. Ugh!! I am trying to be patient w them too, but they can be so flaky.

Thanks all!!
Deanna
Romy is chillin out near me!!
 
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deannaneedshelp

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I will add that she likes tomplay. She does it with me, the other cats, and by herself. She will eat off my hand and I always make her come to me for food and keep her dish close to me. I watched the videos a few weeks after I rescued them. I have done a lot of the things you are supposed to. She has just been slower to come around than Heely. I try not to compare the two kittens, but Heely is so far advanced and does everything a spry and normal kitten would do. I don't agree that who Romy is now is who she will be. I don't prefer that attitude, especially since she does something new all the time.

If the group I am working with keeps assering that she isn't adoptable, I am concerned that I won't be able to get her adopted by myself. I refuse to use Craigslist. That is just too sketchy for me. I just really need to wait and see what happens. But that seems easier to say than do. I just know what a toll this has taken on me, and since this is the first time I have ever done this, I know there is a part of me that doesn't know how much longer I can keep doing it. I know that may sound awful. I just thought the group would help more or take over more. I love them both dearly, but I just so want them to find good homes!!

Deanna
 

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It sounds like you have made some progress with her.  My guess is that she will always be on the shy side.  That doesn't mean she won't continue to blossom, it just means her personality will not be as outgoing as her brother. 

Will the rescue group not take her if she doesn't meet their criteria for adoptable?  Have you thought of keeping her yourself?  She knows you, loves you and trusts you.  She can also be her shy self around you.  You could continue to work with her or allow her to be shy.  She would still have you and your love. 

I am sorry this is causing you stress and pain.  You have done so much for these little ones.
 
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