Grace's Nausea

peaches08

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Her intestinal troubles started after what? And yeah, if she's getting grains elsewhere then grain free dry may not help. Or it might, considering how poor quality Meow Mix dry is.

Also, I'd consider limiting ingredients as an overall. Is raw or home-cooked an option? I ask because it is the easiest way to find out if chicken for example is bothering her. Feed chicken exclusively for a week or so and watch. Symptoms worseen? Lay off chicken. Symptoms get better? Let's move forward from there.

No, your vet isn't going to like raw. But so far her answers to this leave a lot to be desired.
 
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worriedsomuch

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Her intestinal troubles started after what? And yeah, if she's getting grains elsewhere then grain free dry may not help. Or it might, considering how poor quality Meow Mix dry is.

Also, I'd consider limiting ingredients as an overall. Is raw or home-cooked an option? I ask because it is the easiest way to find out if chicken for example is bothering her. Feed chicken exclusively for a week or so and watch. Symptoms worseen? Lay off chicken. Symptoms get better? Let's move forward from there.

No, your vet isn't going to like raw. But so far her answers to this leave a lot to be desired.
I hope it helps if I can make her eat it. I did get her to finally finish the rest of it Her appetite was good this morning so I hope it's not actually a lack of appetite that had her not finishing her dry food but just that she detected the change. I don't have any idea why her intestinal problems started to be honest, besides her allergies and her over grooming due to them. Her whole life she was on this diet and never had an issue. She was fed the 80% and 20% ration of wet to dry, Fancy Feast and Meox Mix basically. I barely saw a hairball if at all. I think she's thrown up 5 or 6 her whole life and 2 were this past few months. I don't know what triggered the allergies too. I just know she has started having ear issues since last August, shortly after my other cat passed. Her sister has Asthma so I don't know if it's a genetic thing or what, but she never had issues until August 2013 and again they weren't intestinal to start. She threw a hairball up in October but since she started licking a bald spot on her tummy, I knew this was probably why. She had symptoms of hairballs, very sporadically after that, as in coughing, but I didn't see another hairball until last month in January. I can't even prove it was her for sure either. Then within these last 2 weeks, she's been having nausea during the day which I *think* is hairballs due to the fact that she acts nauseated and later coughs.

Raw is not an option for me personally but the vet had discussed the Royal Canin option in the past with LI. He wanted to do rabbit with green pea I believe. Can I ask why her answers leave a lot to be desired? I'm sorry if I'm not being clear in my post. Please don't think I'm ardently defending the veterinary practice. I'd like to believe my cat is getting good care. I'd hate to find something else out in the end that she is indeed very sick. As I understand it though IBS/IBD and even lymphoma are very tricky to diagnose. I asked her if I should opt for an ultrasound and she told me she wouldn't go there just yet, to try to see if a diet change would help first. From what I researched on my own, even ultrasounds can't always be definitive with lymphoma unless biopsy is taken. They couldn't even diagnose my lymphoma kitty definitively, only say that he had probably lymphoma.
 
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peaches08

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Well, so far she's not helped with a single issue that this cat has. Maybe the case is above her knowledge. Maybe she's missing the clues in front of her. Maybe the problem is on your end. I'm not saying that in a mean way. I went to the eye doctor for months trying to solve my own "pink eye" dilemma. Turned out I developed an allergy to Phisoderm soap that I had used without problems for over 2 years. It happens.

I don't think I'd run to "cancer" just yet. Sounds to me like you have a ways to go before properly administering an elimination diet. Is she stubborn about food?

Frankly I'd have gone for the rabbit diet and fed it exclusively.
 

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Personally I think that the meow mix dry is an extremely low quality diet, I have seen a lot of nutritional deficiencies in cats who have eaten this diet.  I don't think Science Diet is the best food out there, IMO, if you think she is allergic to chicken, why are you feeding chicken?  I would try a limited ingredient diet such as venison or duck or rabbit with her.  That means she only gets those foods, no treats of any kind either.  I don't think your vet is taking your kitties problems serious enough IMO.  My cat DeeJay has a bald belly, we have determined that she probably has IBS or IBD and her belly was hurting her that's why she was chewing on it.  We have her on a raw diet as well as natural and homeopathic and chinese medicines to help her. 
 
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worriedsomuch

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Thanks for the replies. I appreciate them, I do, but I'm not going to turn this into a thread about whether you think my vet is incompetent and how awful it is that I fed my cat Meow Mix. Frankly I don't need more guilt trips. This is about her current issues and a diet change. Let me reiterate, she wasn't fed Meow Mix exclusively. She never was. 80% of her diet is wet food which is Fancy Feast. Now she is getting the Science Diet grain free which my vet thinks is a good choice right now so I'm going with it. Also, I never said I thought she was allergic to chicken. The vet said I'm to avoid fish for now, which I am. All I said was that I heard chicken can be an allergen for some cats. If you prefer raw for your cat, that's your option but I am not going to feed it to my cat at the moment. I frankly feel a slight condescension in certain posts to myself in some way because I am not immediately turning to raw which hurts my feelings. Sorry if I'm oversensitive but that's how it is. I am open minded to suggestions here and say that, God forbid, in the future, if it became necessary, I wouldn't be completely opposed to raw if nothing else worked with the current diet changes. I also wouldn't put rabbit or another vet opinion out of the realm of possibility either.

I got her to eat Fancy Feast classic with the cheese in it which she usually dislikes but I think this is good since it's also grain free I believe. She is also eating the grain free Science Diet as well as grain free treats too. She still has a long way to go before I can tell if it's working. I also ordered some of the Vet's Best Chews to try to aid in digestion/avoid hairballs. I'm hoping she isn't in the category of IBD or as I said before, cancer at this stage. Hopefully her allergies and stomach upset can be helped before it turns into something worse.
 
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fleabags mom

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How does lip smacking amount to IBD or cancer? Are you running again before you can walk? Sounds like it to me, putting yourself in a panic again.

Think calmly, think clearly.

It could be hairballs. It might not be hairballs.

It could be that she's feeling sick, it also might not be.

It could be her allergies, it might not be.

Have you had her teeth checked? This is another thing that can cause lip smacking.

Is she on any medication? This may be a side-effect (dry mouth or feeling sick).

It also can be caused by stress.

It can be because of acid in the tummy.

If she is waking you up for food, then this may be worth looking into and try and feed more regular & a large portion of food at night. She may be hungry and give her a decent breakfast, not dry. Dry in the morning is the worst time to feed them dry. They tend to wolf back more than needed & too fast because of overnight hunger then it swells up and up it comes or it makes them feel sick.

The big thing here is that she isn't being sick. She is also playing and eating well. These are excellent, EXCELLENT things to be happening. Please look on a positive side, hold on to these facts and stop immediately thinking the worst again.

So if you think its allergies, then this is going to take a while to find out what's setting her off. May not be just grain, but it's a good place to start. Pointless giving her grain-free food and the cheap dry.

If you think it may be teeth or medication, talk to your vet.

Hair balls? Try different remedies to see if one works. If your vet doesn't like the egg, then fine, stick with the vets idea. If that doesn't work, perhaps then try to think of other things and accept that although the vet has idea's, sometimes they may not be right for your cat. They are all different and different things work better with different cats. Doesn't mean anyone is right or wrong - the important thing is to not give up or have tunnel vision.

If it may be because of an acid tummy, give her meals more often and late at night. High quality food with lots of protein because it fills them up longer. I do think tho you should stop dry food. Don't throw your toys out the pram over that advice please as you have done. Feeling guilty over it? Then stop feeding her bad food in dry form then you will not feel guilty. 20% of her daily intake is actually quite high - its almost the equivalent of you eating just a mars bar for breakfast. No nutritional value & full of junk, even tho it may taste good.

All these things take time to work out and eliminate. Months in fact. Are you going to get even more stressed over this time?  As I said, think calmly. You've got to problem solve here, and that can't be done if you're a mess. You are the responsible owner and she needs you to sort this out. Please, kindly, get a grip and think facts only. Stop thinking about cancer, Grace is not your other cat.
 
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worriedsomuch

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How does lip smacking amount to IBD or cancer? Are you running again before you can walk? Sounds like it to me, putting yourself in a panic again.

Think calmly, think clearly.

It could be hairballs. It might not be hairballs.

It could be that she's feeling sick, it also might not be.

It could be her allergies, it might not be.

Have you had her teeth checked? This is another thing that can cause lip smacking.

Is she on any medication? This may be a side-effect (dry mouth or feeling sick).

It also can be caused by stress.

It can be because of acid in the tummy.

If she is waking you up for food, then this may be worth looking into and try and feed more regular & a large portion of food at night. She may be hungry and give her a decent breakfast, not dry. Dry in the morning is the worst time to feed them dry. They tend to wolf back more than needed & too fast because of overnight hunger then it swells up and up it comes or it makes them feel sick.

The big thing here is that she isn't being sick. She is also playing and eating well. These are excellent, EXCELLENT things to be happening. Please look on a positive side, hold on to these facts and stop immediately thinking the worst again.

So if you think its allergies, then this is going to take a while to find out what's setting her off. May not be just grain, but it's a good place to start. Pointless giving her grain-free food and the cheap dry.

If you think it may be teeth or medication, talk to your vet.

Hair balls? Try different remedies to see if one works. If your vet doesn't like the egg, then fine, stick with the vets idea. If that doesn't work, perhaps then try to think of other things and accept that although the vet has idea's, sometimes they may not be right for your cat. They are all different and different things work better with different cats. Doesn't mean anyone is right or wrong - the important thing is to not give up or have tunnel vision.

If it may be because of an acid tummy, give her meals more often and late at night. High quality food with lots of protein because it fills them up longer. I do think tho you should stop dry food. Don't throw your toys out the pram over that advice please as you have done. Feeling guilty over it? Then stop feeding her bad food in dry form then you will not feel guilty. 20% of her daily intake is actually quite high - its almost the equivalent of you eating just a mars bar for breakfast. No nutritional value & full of junk, even tho it may taste good.

All these things take time to work out and eliminate. Months in fact. Are you going to get even more stressed over this time?  As I said, think calmly. You've got to problem solve here, and that can't be done if you're a mess. You are the responsible owner and she needs you to sort this out. Please, kindly, get a grip and think facts only. Stop thinking about cancer, Grace is not your other cat.
@Fleabags Mom, first thank you for responding and am I walking before I run, probably? I hope? First I just want to clarify something though because perhaps I'm not getting the point across regarding the food. I was feeding Grace Meox Mix dry, again as 20% of her diet. The other 80% is wet food. You call it a lot but I guess I don't see it that way. She eats about 5-6 times a day and 2 of those meals are Meox Mix. Do I pour her a great big bowl? No. I give her small amounts like 20 pieces, maybe. I am just guesstimating because really most of her food is still wet. Also, again I'm not sure if you saw but I am changing the Meow Mix. I thought I was pretty clear on that to Science Diet grain free dry, but still with the wet, (using Fancy Feast Classics at the moment) based on the vet's recommendation but also the recommendation here to go grain free. Now if people think Science Diet is not the best choice, that's okay. People are entitled to their opinion.

I know what nausea looks like and this is nausea. Is her morning nausea because of an empty stomach? I hope so. She's back on her schedule since I'm back at work so maybe that's what it is. She just never really had the issue before as well as the gurgly stomach until the last month or so. She also has a raspy, hoarse little meow in the morning which means she does have some kind of acid sneaking up into her throat most likely. Also, the vet did throw the terms IBS and IBD out there given her allergies so that's where some conclusions come from.

I also do give her meals more often. She eats around the clock (maybe that's part of the issue?), with her stomach not really being empty for more than 5 hours at a time unless I have something come up which keeps me away longer. My mom also comes to my house since she lives closeby and feeds my cats around 11 AM so they aren't going 9 hours without eating until I come home. I do also feed her right before I go to bed. I also never feed her dry first thing in the morning. I know that's not good. She gets her wet food first, more wet food from my mom, dry food when I arrive home, wet food again and then a small amount of dry before bed. Maybe the dry before bed is not such a good idea and I've been thinking on that. And yes I've also considered eliminating the dry all together.

Can I just ask when I "threw my toys out of the pram?" I have been trying to be patient and hear people's viewpoints on this but somehow my posts and method of feeding gets misconstrued as it has again because you said I would stop feeling guilty by feeding her "bad" dry food. You seem to have totally overlooked the fact that I am changing her to Science Diet dry grain free and said I was giving her "good grain free and bad dry." Maybe you think the Science Diet is bad and again I respect your opinion and I also respect your last sentence. My vet said the same thing to me on the phone. This is something I need to realize. Grace isn't Tito. It's just I saw all these things in Tito, morning nausea particularly and I can't help but feel frightened at the idea of it happening again.

Also, I am taking her in to the vet this week for another good checkup. I want her weighed again and her teeth looked at too, because I did think of that. She isn't on any medicine so it's not that. As I said also, I am not completely closed minded to other ideas as some seem to think, just a tad sensitive when a thread about my cat's nausea turns into one about whether my vet is incompetent and goes around in a circular motion coming back to Meox Mix which again I am eliminating. I want you to know that I do realize I have tunnel vision when it comes to thinking the worst about Grace too. I'm not oblivious.
 
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fleabags mom

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 I did end up giving her just a tiny amount of dry food and she settled down and came to sleep with me until 9 AM.
  I also never feed her dry first thing in the morning. I know that's not good.
Ok, I wrote about the dry food in the morning because you did give Grace some food in the morning.  I was not to know that this isn't the norm.

The thing about toys, well, you did get cross in your post over the dry and being made to feel guilty. These are your actions tho.  It seems you do ask for a lot of advice here yet do not seem to take it on board. When folk get exasperated, you get cross back, which is understandable in both situations.  Perhaps it's just the joy of the written word and how it can come over, but it does seem that it's going around in circles. I think that when you thought Grace had a different illness - a UTI, people advised to stop all dry food, and yet here you are, admitting to having dried food in her diet a few weeks later. Why?

You don't think 20% is very much, but what if that 20% actually IS too much for Grace's allergies or tummy? How do you know what a difference it would make if you don't stop it for a while? My mum is allergic to peppers and they make her vomit - that's just a tiny bit, not a large amount. There may not be an OK percentage for your Grace. 

You say you are eliminating/changing her dried food, but when? Why talk about it - take action, don't wait another day!  I do not understand the need to feed her dried food at all and in my opinion, would be the very first thing I'd have stopped when allergies turned up, or I suspected a UTI. Especially because it was a poor quality mix full of additives! How long has Grace had allergies, and how long had you kept feeding MM? Why is it so hard for you to stop dry? You seem to be very set in your ways, yet expect different answers off people or different results even tho you're doing the same thing again and again. 

You got upset/frustrated that the posts ended up being about MM/dry and your vet. People seemed to say that perhaps its your vet at fault because you've been here with multiple issues over Grace and taken her to the vet a ton of times.  A lot of issues, a lot. Problem is that folk here are going to remember your many posts about different & varied suspected illnesses with Grace, not just answer on this issue. To suggest that your vet may be not very good because he/she rarely find something wrong with Grace, well, that actually is really good thinking.  If there is nothing wrong with your vet and you trust him/her, then please answer me, has Grace actually ended up with all of the issues you suspected? If the vet hasn't found them, have you given up on them or have they never happened? Are they a result of too much google and too much fret?

Be honest.
 
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goholistic

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Hi WorriedSoMuch. 


Is it the Science Diet "Ideal Balance" grain-free chicken & potato? I had Boo on this for a short while, but then he stopped liking it.  
  I ended up giving it to my boyfriend for his three cats (they'll eat anything). Is Science Diet the best food? Absolutely not. Is it better than Meow Mix? Most certainly, IMO. If she seems to do well on the grain free, you can always transition her again later to a better quality food.

I think it is good start that you are eliminating fish and grains from Grace's diet. When I first adopted Sebastian, he was eating a food with whole grains. Turns out he is really allergic to grains (particularly barley) and was scratching his face and neck until he bled. Once I took him off the grains, the scratching stopped.

I'm finding that allergies can affect cats in a lot of ways. They can cause skin problems, ear infections, gastrointestinal disturbances, mouth issues, etc. With Grace's [past] recurring ear infection and scratching, I hope that identifying an allergen will be of some help to her. As to the nausea, I'm just not sure. You could talk to your vet about giving her Pepcid AC if it is excess acid that is bothering her.

You're in the US, correct? If it helps at all, below is my small rotation of grain-free, non-fish canned foods I feed to Boo and Caesar. Also, I only buy ones that do not contain sodium nitrate (yucky).

Fancy Feast Classic Tender Beef & Liver Feast

Fancy Feast Classic Tender Liver & Chicken Feast

Fancy Feast Classic Turkey & Giblets Feast

Fancy Feast Kitten Tender Turkey Feast

Sheba Pate Turkey Entree

Sheba Pate Chicken Entree

Sheba Pate Chicken & Liver Entree

I have a few others in the rotation, but some contain fish and/or rice (all Friskies pates have rice). Sheba has other pates, but my local Petco doesn't carry all of them. Don't worry too much that Grace may not like these foods. Buy one of each and give them a try. You never know. Keep a list. It took me TWO YEARS to get my die-hard kibble addict Caesar to eat a decent rotation of wet foods. The trick is...just keep offering it.
 
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worriedsomuch

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Hi WorriedSoMuch. 


Is it the Science Diet "Ideal Balance" grain-free chicken & potato? I had Boo on this for a short while, but then he stopped liking it.  
  I ended up giving it to my boyfriend for his three cats (they'll eat anything). Is Science Diet the best food? Absolutely not. Is it better than Meow Mix? Most certainly, IMO. If she seems to do well on the grain free, you can always transition her again later to a better quality food.

I think it is good start that you are eliminating fish and grains from Grace's diet. When I first adopted Sebastian, he was eating a food with whole grains. Turns out he is really allergic to grains (particularly barley) and was scratching his face and neck until he bled. Once I took him off the grains, the scratching stopped.

I'm finding that allergies can affect cats in a lot of ways. They can cause skin problems, ear infections, gastrointestinal disturbances, mouth issues, etc. With Grace's [past] recurring ear infection and scratching, I hope that identifying an allergen will be of some help to her. As to the nausea, I'm just not sure. You could talk to your vet about giving her Pepcid AC if it is excess acid that is bothering her.

You're in the US, correct? If it helps at all, below is my small rotation of grain-free, non-fish canned foods I feed to Boo and Caesar. Also, I only buy ones that do not contain sodium nitrate (yucky).

Fancy Feast Classic Tender Beef & Liver Feast

Fancy Feast Classic Tender Liver & Chicken Feast

Fancy Feast Classic Turkey & Giblets Feast

Fancy Feast Kitten Tender Turkey Feast

Sheba Pate Turkey Entree

Sheba Pate Chicken Entree

Sheba Pate Chicken & Liver Entree

I have a few others in the rotation, but some contain fish and/or rice (all Friskies pates have rice). Sheba has other pates, but my local Petco doesn't carry all of them. Don't worry too much that Grace may not like these foods. Buy one of each and give them a try. You never know. Keep a list. It took me TWO YEARS to get my die-hard kibble addict Caesar to eat a decent rotation of wet foods. The trick is...just keep offering it.
No the Science Diet isn't Ideal Balance. I did not see that one in the store. This one is just grain free chicken, chicken as the first ingredient and I believe if you check ingredients, there is some pea in there. I am trying this one for now but you never know, I might change it to something else. I've heard so many different opinions on what the best grain free dry food is but I decided to give this one a chance off the advice of my vet. We'll see how it goes. As for now, she's liking it so far and the transition is going okay.

I'm not sure about the nausea either. I thought it was for sure hairballs but she seems to have tiny bouts of it frequently, where she'll just start licking her lips and looking quite bothered. Then there is the morning nausea. She has not had it, as I said, since I've been back at work this week and she gets to eat at her scheduled time. The vet did suggest some Pepcid in case it is excess acid. I did order the treats with the slippery elm bark to see if those might help some. The vet did seem to think this could be her allergies too, even the nausea.

I am in the US and thank-you for the list! I actually have been using some of those Fancy Feasts. Grace seems to have some issues with the way the food is presented, like pate style seems to bother her. She just doesn't like it but I have gotten her to eat some of it. She liked the turkey giblets but I had to mash them up like she doesn't like big chunks in her food. I have not been able to find the beef. I have to look for that. I've used the beef and cheese though Fancy Feast classic which is a pate but she liked that one. She didn't like Sheba though which I've tried. I would say Grace does love her kibble. I think she would probably have strictly been a kibble cat if I let her but I never did, always just keeping it to a minimum. I know kibble isn't great really, I do, but I'm hoping by putting her on a better quality one and restricting the amount, it should still be okay.

@Fleabags Mom, I will pm you.
 
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goholistic

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No the Science Diet isn't Ideal Balance. I did not see that one in the store. This one is just grain free chicken, chicken as the first ingredient and I believe if you check ingredients, there is some pea in there. I am trying this one for now but you never know, I might change it to something else. I've heard so many different opinions on what the best grain free dry food is but I decided to give this one a chance off the advice of my vet. We'll see how it goes. As for now, she's liking it so far and the transition is going okay.

I'm not sure about the nausea either. I thought it was for sure hairballs but she seems to have tiny bouts of it frequently, where she'll just start licking her lips and looking quite bothered. Then there is the morning nausea. She has not had it, as I said, since I've been back at work this week and she gets to eat at her scheduled time. The vet did suggest some Pepcid in case it is excess acid. I did order the treats with the slippery elm bark to see if those might help some. The vet did seem to think this could be her allergies too, even the nausea.

I am in the US and thank-you for the list! I actually have been using some of those Fancy Feasts. Grace seems to have some issues with the way the food is presented, like pate style seems to bother her. She just doesn't like it but I have gotten her to eat some of it. She liked the turkey giblets but I had to mash them up like she doesn't like big chunks in her food. I have not been able to find the beef. I have to look for that. I've used the beef and cheese though Fancy Feast classic which is a pate but she liked that one. She didn't like Sheba though which I've tried. I would say Grace does love her kibble. I think she would probably have strictly been a kibble cat if I let her but I never did, always just keeping it to a minimum. I know kibble isn't great really, I do, but I'm hoping by putting her on a better quality one and restricting the amount, it should still be okay.
Oh, okay. Well, at least Grace seems to like the new food. Oh, and I forgot one on my list above:

Purina Pro Plan Finesse - Classic Chicken & Liver Entree Adult (http://www.proplan.com/wet-cat-food/finesse-adult-chicken-liver-entree/)

My cats like their wet food with extra water added (1 teaspoon, give or take) and mashed with a fork. Some cats like chunks, some like a mushy consistency. For whatever reason, my cats don't know what to do with chunks and they just flick them out of their bowls all over the place.  
  They do well with pates and foods with a fine consistency.
 
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worriedsomuch

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Thanks again for adding another food to the list. I got that one and she seems to like it. She also liked the Sheba ones too, surprisingly because last time she turned her nose up at it. One thing I noticed though is a lot of these foods contain fish oil. The vet said to avoid all fish so it's really hard. Is fish oil okay vs. actual fish? 
I wouldn't think any fish would be a good thing. I also bought her a variety of grain free foods, some Evo, some Blue Buffalo, and the Science Diet grain free wet food. She liked the Science Diet thankfully. I added some water like you suggested and that seemed to help since it was chunky. I got her the Ideal Balance grain free wet food variety too. She's really struggling with the change though. I gave her duck for the first time yesterday and boy did she balk at it. She sniffed it like, "what is this stuff?" Then she walked away. Her sister did the same. Then, however, they came back and ate it. Also, now the Meow Mix is officially gone. She's fully transitioned into Science Diet grain free dry. I've also cut the amount she's getting to just once a day so she's on probably 90% wet now. She's turning up her nose at it sometimes now though whereas she acted like she liked it on Saturday. She hasn't had morning nausea though in a week so that's a positive. She even slept in on both Saturday and Sunday, not waking me up smacking her lips which was nice because I am under the weather myself. This whole thing is frustrating though because I don't like when she doesn't want to eat something, even though I know it's good for her. I ended up giving her some of her Fancy Feast Medley favorite last night. I know it doesn't have fish but I'm pretty sure there is grain in there. She acted so ravenous, she wouldn't stop licking the plate! I think that's part of the reason I hesitated with changing the food, the fear she wouldn't like it and won't eat. I don't like how she's acting so hungry all the time, yowling for food. I thought the grain free would be much more filling, then the empty calories of the other food with the fillers so it's all frustrating and confusing. I do have the Fancy Feast classics though at least which she will usually eat but I have to be careful because sometimes there is fish in there too. They had a new Fancy Feast classic called Broths. I was so excited to get her some but all they have is Tuna and other fish varieties.
 
 
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goholistic

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One thing I noticed though is a lot of these foods contain fish oil. The vet said to avoid all fish so it's really hard. Is fish oil okay vs. actual fish? 
Fish oil typically does not contain the protein that causes an allergic reaction, so is generally okay to use. I give Sebastian a fish oil supplement for omega 3s, even though he is on a novel protein diet.
 
I ended up giving her some of her Fancy Feast Medley favorite last night. I know it doesn't have fish but I'm pretty sure there is grain in there.
As soon as you cave in and give her fish or grains, you're back at square one. You really have to discipline yourself not to give her those foods if the whole point is to try to see if eliminating them will help with her issues.
 
I don't like how she's acting so hungry all the time, yowling for food. I thought the grain free would be much more filling, then the empty calories of the other food with the fillers so it's all frustrating and confusing. I do have the Fancy Feast classics though at least which she will usually eat but I have to be careful because sometimes there is fish in there too. They had a new Fancy Feast classic called Broths. I was so excited to get her some but all they have is Tuna and other fish varieties.
 
Actually, I think carbs are more filling, but the nutritional benefit isn't there. Its like us eating a loaf of bread or a bowl of pasta...much more filling than a baked chicken breast and a green vegetable...but no real nutrients. If Grace is still hungry, just give her more. Is there a concern that she is overweight? The reason I provided you with a short list of fish-free foods is because most of the varieties do contain fish. I knew you were feeling overwhelmed, so I thought I'd save you the trouble of looking at every can when you could start with the ones I listed.

Nutro Natural Choice also has some fish-free varieties - you'll have to go with the Chunky Loaf or Soft Loaf versions. Boo likes the Turkey one, but they also have Chicken and Duck.
 
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worriedsomuch

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Fish oil typically does not contain the protein that causes an allergic reaction, so is generally okay to use. I give Sebastian a fish oil supplement for omega 3s, even though he is on a novel protein diet.

As soon as you cave in and give her fish or grains, you're back at square one. You really have to discipline yourself not to give her those foods if the whole point is to try to see if eliminating them will help with her issues.

Actually, I think carbs are more filling, but the nutritional benefit isn't there. Its like us eating a loaf of bread or a bowl of pasta...much more filling than a baked chicken breast and a green vegetable...but no real nutrients. If Grace is still hungry, just give her more. Is there a concern that she is overweight? The reason I provided you with a short list of fish-free foods is because most of the varieties do contain fish. I knew you were feeling overwhelmed, so I thought I'd save you the trouble of looking at every can when you could start with the ones I listed.

Nutro Natural Choice also has some fish-free varieties - you'll have to go with the Chunky Loaf or Soft Loaf versions. Boo likes the Turkey one, but they also have Chicken and Duck.
Oh that's good to know about the fish oil. I figured fish oil might be a good thing as they suggest people take it for digestion issues and such. You are right that I need to discipline myself. It's just so hard when she's not eating anything. It's like, well I can't let her go hungry. I'm opening can after can of stuff and losing my mind. Yesterday, she ate all grain free though. She liked some of the BB beef flavor and the FF classics with the cheddar. This change has been even harder on her sister. She's acting strange since the whole thing started. Sometimes she even runs off when I put the plate in front of her.
Then she woke me up at 2 or 3 AM last night acting like she had nausea so I'm thinking it's because she didn't feel very satisfied with her bedtime meal and Delilah never is the nauseous type so it stunned me.

Hmmmm I thought about the thing about carbs. I guess I was thinking of the other cat food she was getting as junk food in a sense. I know when I am hungry and I opt to eat, say a donut, it makes me feel full but then it seems like I'm hungrier later for something good to eat like chicken. I'm not sure if that has any merit, just my own experience. I thought when I spoke to the nutritionist at SD, they said something similar too, like the "bad" food fills them up quick but then they get hungrier faster. I do know the vet said they might lose a few ounces being on the grain free now so again, color me confused. Maybe I'm just not getting it
Grace isn't overweight, although Delilah is a bit so giving Grace some extra is not a big deal. I'm scared Delilah won't be overweight much longer though if she keeps running off from her food. It's not that I want her overweight of course, but I surely don't want her underweight either. I know Delilah doesn't necessarily need the same diet but I figure with her asthma and the other health benefits, it's best if all the cats eat it.

Thanks for the new option with Nutro Natural Choice. I'm sure they'd like the turkey one and I'd give the chicken and duck a try too. What do you think of high protein foods? I know they said a cat can gain weight quickly but I'm wondering if that would keep the cats more satisfied, that is of course if they'll eat it.
 

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It's just so hard when she's not eating anything. It's like, well I can't let her go hungry.
Well, yes. If she's not eating anything, then it's more important that she eats.
 
What do you think of high protein foods? I know they said a cat can gain weight quickly but I'm wondering if that would keep the cats more satisfied, that is of course if they'll eat it.
Its my understanding that a high protein, low carb diet can help create an ideal, lean weight. Caloric intake is also a factor.
 
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Its my understanding that a high protein, low carb diet can help create an ideal, lean weight. Caloric intake is also a factor.
Okay that's good to know. Thanks!

Unfortunately I thought I was making progress on the morning nausea front with Grace. It had been 11 days or so since her waking up with nausea. However, she woke me up this morning, just before the alarm looking positively "green" if that's possible for a cat. She ate all grain free yesterday too. She enjoys the Freedom flavors from BB and the FF classics. She also did actually eat her dry food yesterday and enjoyed it. I gave her a small treat before bed as another member suggested that is grain free, high protein to keep her fuller like I've been doing. However, she was sick like I said. Her sister also seemed to be a bit on the nauseous side. I feel like I'm just not doing anything right. I've read loads of articles about cats with morning nausea but none really give you the absolute solution. My only other option would be to try an automatic feeder but I don't want to do that.
 
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Small treat before bed may not be enough. A few folk have found a nice large dinner of good quality, high protein food just before bed does the trick as it keeps them going overnight & hunger in the morning is not so much an issue. It most certainly helped my own cat from being sick in the morning, as well as stopping dry.
 
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She does get a whole dinner as well as the treat about 30 minutes apart. I am going to pick up some more high protein options, thanks. I've tried giving her grain free duck, high protein but she won't eat duck at all.
 
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Okay that's good to know. Thanks!

Unfortunately I thought I was making progress on the morning nausea front with Grace. It had been 11 days or so since her waking up with nausea. However, she woke me up this morning, just before the alarm looking positively "green" if that's possible for a cat. She ate all grain free yesterday too. She enjoys the Freedom flavors from BB and the FF classics. She also did actually eat her dry food yesterday and enjoyed it. I gave her a small treat before bed as another member suggested that is grain free, high protein to keep her fuller like I've been doing. However, she was sick like I said. Her sister also seemed to be a bit on the nauseous side. I feel like I'm just not doing anything right. I've read loads of articles about cats with morning nausea but none really give you the absolute solution. My only other option would be to try an automatic feeder but I don't want to do that.
Sebastian definitely doesn't do as well in the morning as he does at night. He's sluggish to get up and doesn't eat as much in the morning (but makes up for it at night). He is on an all-wet diet, by the way.

I'm not 100% sure, but I think Pepcid can be compounded into a flavored liquid if Grace doesn't handle pills well. Maybe talk to your vet about something like this? 
 

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Just FYI, those rabies medical exemptions must come with a letter from a veterinarian. I have a dog that is exempt from rabies because she has cancer and is on high dose steroids. This is just about the ONLY circumstance in which you can get out of giving a dog or a cat a rabies shot. 

If your cat has had a reaction to the rabies shot in the past, your state MAY allow you to do titers in lieu of vaccination, which will prove immunity, but in order to get any immunity, the cat has to be vaccinated at least once. 

There is a REASON that rabies shots are the law. I understand your cat is delicate, but your vet is right to demand that you vaccinate her against rabies. I would rather know what the symptoms of a reaction are and be able to watch for them, than risk my cat getting rabies. It's a horrible way to go. 
 
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