Grace's Nausea

So Grace has been having nausea issues the last few weeks. First it was intermittent morning nausea, usually on the weekend, which I assumed was from the change in her eating schedule. Since she was eating later, I figured that was the cause. However, now in the last 2 weeks, she has had 4 episodes at various points in the day. I get that I am doing something wrong but just want advice on how proactive I need to be with this. I'm certainly worried as usual but not sure what to do. This started over the weekend on February 8 when she was looking at birds, ran from the window smacking her lips like she had something bitter on her tongue, also sticking out her tongue a lot which I recognized as nausea. I gave her some hairball remedy and it passed. However, later she was coughing so I figured it was a definite hairball. The following Monday, the 10, she had another minor episode, lip smacking and gulping which I attributed to a hairball too. I didn't intervene this time as it quickly passed. She was fine for about 9 days until Wednesday when she started smacking her lips and doing the "bitter taste" thing. Then she did sort of a yawn/gag which I see as nausea too. Then again today, it was the same deal. I've spoken to the vet who wants me to give laxatone to see if it helps. I've given it to her starting yesterday and it hasn't worked. I'm to call Monday if she's still having issues. He seems to think she could also have itchy lips due to her allergies but I told him this is different than just standard lip licking. He said the next step is Pepcid to settle her stomach. He said since she hasn't puked at all and her appetite is fine, he doesn't see it as disease. However, I've read about the motility issues. I have also read great advice about various holistic remedies for hairballs. I just have not gotten the chance to purchase them, same with a diet change. I want to switch to grain free. Does this sound like it's even hairballs. Her episode today did happen after a round of grooming. Just an FYI but she grooms excessively since her allergies started. She never even had hairball issues until this past year when her other issues began. My fear is she could be on the way to IBD or something worse if this continues. I do want to take her into the vet but he told me he will give her a rabies shot, not sure if I can hold him off anymore. I was forced to pay for it already and he said he will only see her if I agree to the shot since it's "the law." I'd prefer my nauseous cat not have a shot.

I'm not sure where you live, but rabies shot is required by law in most states.

Your cat is not going to get better if you don't take him to the vet which is the best thing for your kitty. If you don't like your current vet, try another!

They will usually post pone a shot if your kitty is sick.

No, they won't postpone it anymore. It is a law here and I've argued on the basis of her allergies and everything but no dice. The vet is nice there and does offer me discounts to check her again if he's seen her in the last month. Unfortunately it looks like my only solution is to take her in Monday. She isn't feeling well this morning. I have been on vacation from work all week and she hasn't woken me up with any nausea the entire week until today. She woke up at 5:30 AM crying behind my door. I had closed it so I cold sleep in a little later. Once I let her in, I started to hear a slobbering noise coming from the kitchen (that's how loud it was) and upon investigation, she was on the counter licking it and licking empty dishes up there. She even started to lick the floor like she was ravenous, smacking her lips repeatedly. I feel like something is going on her tummy. She's been eating later this whole week and hasn't had any real issues besides what I perceived to be hairball nausea. Last night after posting the thread, she was clearing her throat and coughing slightly so again I figured her earlier nausea was hairballs. However, now I just don't know what's up. I did end up giving her just a tiny amount of dry food and she settled down and came to sleep with me until 9 AM. She seemed fine but immediately upon awakening was distressed again, smacking her lips and protruding her tongue. I thought she had gone to her water dish because again I heard the smacking/slobbering noise. She even got into a hunched position like she wold vomit. I checked the floor and there wasn't anything there. I don't know if she has excess bile coming up or what. Her meow does sound hoarse occasionally too.

As many problems as you post about Grace, I'd find another vet.  Discounts and good bedside manners are nice, but your cat is still sick.

peaches08 said:

As many problems as you post about Grace, I'd find another vet.  Discounts and good bedside manners are nice, but your cat is still sick.

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You have been posting about Grace's various issues (vomiting, allergies, jerking, ear infections, weight loss, odd litterbox behavior, UTI, diarrhea, a lump, hairballs, etc. ) since September. Either these are all symptoms of a larger problem that your vet is not picking up on or Grace is just a very delicate cat. At this point, you need to get a second opinion. Perhaps your best bet would be to go to a veterinary school or a feline specialist.

WorriedSoMuch said:

I have also read great advice about various holistic remedies for hairballs. I just have not gotten the chance to purchase them, same with a diet change.

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The best remedy is egg yolks. Most people, unless they're vegan, have these in the refrigerator. Easy to purchase on any shopping trip if not! I wouldn't give her an entire egg yolk to start - it might give her the runs. Start with just 1/4, mixed into some wet food, or watered down a bit. Give her at least one egg yolk a week, though you can go as high as 2 or 3 (if it doesn't give her the runs) for a couple of weeks to resolve the problem.

WorriedSoMuch said:

I want to switch to grain free. Does this sound like it's even hairballs. Her episode today did happen after a round of grooming. Just an FYI but she grooms excessively since her allergies started. She never even had hairball issues until this past year when her other issues began. My fear is she could be on the way to IBD or something worse if this continues.

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You already know how important grain-free and an all wet food diet is. I don't know what your budget is, but if cost is an issue, the next time you go pet food shopping, just buy some Friskies pate style foods (Poultry Platter actually has meat, not by-products as the first ingredient) and/or Fancy Feast classics. Or buy the Fancy Feast classics when they're on sale.

There are a million reasons something can't be done: you just need one why you can. I don't understand why you're waiting to switch if you already know she's got allergies and a brewing motility problem. Worrying does nothing - you need to DO something.

WorriedSoMuch said:

I do want to take her into the vet but he told me he will give her a rabies shot, not sure if I can hold him off anymore. I was forced to pay for it already and he said he will only see her if I agree to the shot since it's "the law." I'd prefer my nauseous cat not have a shot.

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If you live in one of the following states, you are able to get a medical exemption for the rabies shot:

18 STATES WITH RABIES MEDICAL EXEMPTIONS: Alabama, California, Colorado, Connecticut, Florida, Illinois, Maine, Massachusetts, Maryland, New Hampshire, New Jersey, Nevada, New York, Oregon, Pennsylvania,Vermont, Virginia, Wisconsin

http://www.rabieschallengefund.org/...ical-exemptions-in-lieu-of-rabies-vaccination

And if you don't like that your vet won't work with you on this, call around and find another.

Doing the same thing over and over will always produce the same results. I agree with the others - either make the changes you've been discussing, or get a second opinion on what's going on with Grace. Or both.

TBH, I hesitated to post this because I feared the response I would get. I figured most would be thinking the same "oh here she goes again" stuff which I don't blame any of you for. That's my own doing for worrying excessively about every little thing she does and posting about it. I don't believe I need a second opinion. I think the vet or vets plural since there is more than one trying to work with me on this are doing what they can. Some of the aforementioned issues aren't issues anymore, such as the diarrhea, UTI and such. Yes, she still jerks but the vet can't do anything about that. He's not a neurologist. It would be up to me to take her to one. Also, the ear infections have resolved too with medications although she still itches sometimes and grooms herself.

Now, I get that most are probably thinking I'm just sitting here complaining and doing absolutely nothing while my cat suffers. Believe me I am trying. I have tried different things. I've eliminated fish from her diet as suggested. Is there any huge improvements? No. She has always eaten a mostly wet diet with some dry thrown in a couple times a day. She eats small meals throughout the day and 80% of her diet is wet. I just had a lengthy conversation with the vet just now about what is going on. I told her I want to do grain free. She tells me not to do it. She wants her on Science Diet. Another vet in the practice had wanted me to do Royal Canin Hypo Allergenic but honestly that was too expensive for me and at the time, there was diarrhea going through the household so not the time to me to go messing with food changes.

@LDG I think I mentioned to you that Grace very much hates pates. I have tried those. She prefers shredded faire or better yet for her florentine.

Then I told the vet about egg yolks and the other holistic remedies. Like the other vet in the practice, she's against it. She told me to stick to what the vet recommends so I'm not sure what to do. My problem is an overload of information and it all conflicts in one way or another. My friends swear by Blue Buffalo. People here have said they dislike it and the vet doesn't like it either. Then my vet tells me hairballs once and awhile are okay whereas one site says hairballs should basically NEVER happen. I mean how do I know who to trust? Guess I'm for answers I won't find. I just know something is off with her digestion and I want desperately to fix it but now the path is very muddled.

Same with the rabies shot. Yes I live in those 18 states and the vet will not make an exemption. So am I to traipse around with my cat everywhere? Not so throw a pity party but I don't drive. I have a seizure disorder myself so I am unable. I have to rely on people to drive me and unfortunately I don't have people who are always willing to go the extra mile so the fact that I have a vet right down the street has been ideal. It's ideal too because Grace goes off the rails when she's in a car.

Sorry if my posts are an inconvenience but I've spent the whole of the day so far in tears wondering just which food to buy her and fearing she already is sick since the vet did throw IBS and IBD out there already. I mean I am trying to trust these animal doctors to care for my cat but then most people here seem they would think my vets are quacks. I mean how do I trust a vet if I do the opposite of everything she says?

80% of her diet is wet...which one? What's the other 20%?

With all of her issues I would find a vet who is willing to give a Rabies vaccine exemption.  Sick pets should NOT have vaccinations, it states that on the package inserts that come with the vaccinations.  Vaccinating a pet with all of her issues is just going to add to her issues. 

Ultimately, we are our cats' best advocates. Many of us on TCS have found out the hard way that many vets are not very educated about feline nutrition. In addition, some vets are not very experienced with feline care in general. We have heard the stories here way too often. What you choose to feed and where you take your cats for care are up to you. If you choose to trust your current vets and go with their recommendations, that's fine, but don't make yourself and others frustrated by continuing to ask for recommendations here that you have no intention of following.

cprcheetah said:

With all of her issues I would find a vet who is willing to give a Rabies vaccine exemption.  Sick pets should NOT have vaccinations, it states that on the package inserts that come with the vaccinations.  Vaccinating a pet with all of her issues is just going to add to her issues. 

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Great point! My state requires the vaccine. Yet my vet was cool with me not vaccinating my immune compromised cat. Yet another reason to look elsewhere even if inconvenient. Do you live alone? Any family nearby?

My vet doesn't vaccinate my kitty that had fatty liver and is on a steroid.  That's why I was really sweating it when he gave me a deep bite on top of a toe when I caught his tail in the hinge side of a door.  Luckily it didn't get infected, I think it was because it bled quite a bit.  Ohio does require that animal bites be reported so if I needed to go to a doctor because of infection it would've gotten nasty.

WorriedSoMuch said:

Then my vet tells me hairballs once and awhile are okay whereas one site says hairballs should basically NEVER happen. I mean how do I know who to trust?

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What is "once in a while"

There is a study published VERY recently. An article discussing it was published at the end of December 2013. The article very clearly states that if hairballs in a domestic cat are once every two months (or more frequent) in a short-haired cat, there's potentially a problem. Perhaps your vet is not familiar with this new evidence-based study? Here is the article discussion of the study:

http://www.veterinarypracticenews.c...c-vomiting-in-cats-isnt-normal-after-all.aspx


It sounds like Grace has an issue with nausea. Is it hairball related? It could very easily be.

How you want to treat it? Either you trust your vets and follow their advice, or you do your research, and make an informed choice. If "treating" her for hairballs doesn't help (yet she doesn't vomit up any more hairballs - meaning the nausea is caused by something else), then you have to try other options.

When something isn't life-threatening, it's a very good idea to do one thing at a time. I think you should start a journal. Keep track of what you feed her, when, what her poop is like, when she vomits what or throws up a hairball, when you see her being nauseous, all the changes you make or things you try, etc. and maybe a pattern will emerge.

FYI, the egg yolks do not need to be cooked. And there is a scientific reason for using them. You may want to provide this to your vet for discussion. Far more science behind this approach than using oil or vaseline. :dk: http://catcentric.org/care-and-health/hairballs-species-appropriate-treatment/

cprcheetah said:

 
With all of her issues I would find a vet who is willing to give a Rabies vaccine exemption.  Sick pets should NOT have vaccinations, it states that on the package inserts that come with the vaccinations.  Vaccinating a pet with all of her issues is just going to add to her issues. 

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 I completely agree with you and he has let me "put it off" in the times I've been there, like for her ear infections and such. However he made me pay for it (not cheap) to "protect" them under the law and when I asked about exemption, he said "she'll be fine." I know that would have some running for the exit but I've established a relationship with this vet so it's note easy.

vball91 said:

Ultimately, we are our cats' best advocates. Many of us on TCS have found out the hard way that many vets are not very educated about feline nutrition. In addition, some vets are not very experienced with feline care in general. We have heard the stories here way too often. What you choose to feed and where you take your cats for care are up to you. If you choose to trust your current vets and go with their recommendations, that's fine, but don't make yourself and others frustrated by continuing to ask for recommendations here that you have no intention of following.

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I completely understand that we are their best advocates. All I said was that information is conflicting based on the source. I think my vet is experienced in feline medicine. He owns his own cats and he sees a lot of cats in the practice. I'm not trying to make anyone frustrated. I appreciate the advice given here and I guess I am going to have to do a 50/50 type thing as in do what the vet wants but at the same time, do some holistic approaches too.

peaches08 said:

Great point! My state requires the vaccine. Yet my vet was cool with me not vaccinating my immune compromised cat. Yet another reason to look elsewhere even if inconvenient. Do you live alone? Any family nearby?

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Yes I live alone. I do have family nearby but I'd probably consider my cats more family than they are, not to be TMI except my mom. However, my mom doesn't drive either. These are the ones I have to depend on for rides and they aren't exactly dependable. Also, about what you asked, I feed her Fancy Feast with Meox Mix dry. Yes, I know Meox Mix is horrible now which is why I'm changing it.

LDG said:

What is "once in a while"

There is a study published VERY recently. An article discussing it was published at the end of December 2013. The article very clearly states that if hairballs in a domestic cat are once every two months (or more frequent) in a short-haired cat, there's potentially a problem. Perhaps your vet is not familiar with this new evidence-based study? Here is the article discussion of the study:

http://www.veterinarypracticenews.c...c-vomiting-in-cats-isnt-normal-after-all.aspx


It sounds like Grace has an issue with nausea. Is it hairball related? It could very easily be.

How you want to treat it? Either you trust your vets and follow their advice, or you do your research, and make an informed choice. If "treating" her for hairballs doesn't help (yet she doesn't vomit up any more hairballs - meaning the nausea is caused by something else), then you have to try other options.

When something isn't life-threatening, it's a very good idea to do one thing at a time. I think you should start a journal. Keep track of what you feed her, when, what her poop is like, when she vomits what or throws up a hairball, when you see her being nauseous, all the changes you make or things you try, etc. and maybe a pattern will emerge.

FYI, the egg yolks do not need to be cooked. And there is a scientific reason for using them. You may want to provide this to your vet for discussion. Far more science behind this approach than using oil or vaseline.

http://catcentric.org/care-and-health/hairballs-species-appropriate-treatment/

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I just want to first say thank you for your patience with me. You've been more than kind and I'd consider you one of the most knowledgeable people here on TCS in regards to cat nutrition. I did bring this EXACT study up to my vet as well as the previous, older article about hairballs and his opinion is that once a month is okay for a cat to throw a hairball up. I don't even know if Grace is having hairballs, only that she coughed after so it seems likely. However, the morning nausea is separate all together.

Also, I have been keeping a journal which is why I know the dates on when she's not feeling well and when she's had morning nausea and other nausea during the day. I found that some of her food has fish so I am making sure to take that out. I also went and got her a grain free food. It is Science Diet but I figure it's doing what the vet wants and following some advice here. I will try the egg as well. Vet seemed to think they could be an allergy trigger. I much prefer this method than the goop too.

Can you tell me how long it might take to see a change? My vet says she thinks it's her allergies. Would the grain free food help to eliminate morning nausea?

Again, sorry to anyone if I seemed rude. I feel like all my posts just turn into a mess in one way or another. I'm sorry that I'm not fully on the holistic band wagon. I was just trying to get the point across that all the information is confusing, like how do you know one vet's info is more reliable than another or which diet is best. It's hard.

What does your vet think she's allergic too?

It's worth mentioning that so long as she still gets dry in addition to the new wet (Science Diet), then you're not going to know if it is helping or not. Maybe it would help us better help you if you would explain this vet's game plan..as well as your own.

The vet isn't sure. He seemed to think it was seasonal at one point but now with the nausea, he thinks she has food sensitivities too. Also, I did buy both wet and dry Science Diet. Unfortunately I could not find grain free Science Diet cans (wet food) so I don't know if I am going to have to opt for a different wet, grain free food. I did make sure at the store today to only get foods with chicken or beef. I made doubly sure there was no fish in it. I found out that one of the Fancy Feast foods I was giving her claimed to be just chicken but there was fish in it too. This was the same with the chicken Meow Mix.

The vet's game plan and my own is to go Science Diet but I'm doing Science Diet grain free so it's a mixture of what she wants (or they, as I said more than one vet) and what is advised on here. I am also going to try the egg for her if part of the nausea is caused by hairballs. I was told to give the change of food and that it could take up to 6 weeks according to the vet for any fish left in her to be purged from her system. You can let me know if this is a bad plan. Of course if she is actually allergic to chicken (which I heard some cats are?) than my game plan is off. I'd have to do venison or something. The vet I spoke to today actually agrees very much with the opinion that cats should not eat fish and that they are carnivores and to make sure meat is the first ingredient, yet she says don't do grain free or raw which is confusing to me. That's why I probably annoy people with my posts. I just know deep down I am hurting my cat in some way since now her itchiness has become nausea too so the food has to be affecting her. My biggest fear is maybe I've already done too much damage.

Oh - sorry, I meant to say the yolks CAN be cooked. And yes, if she's allergic to chicken, they may trigger a reaction. That's also why it's best to use a small amount first. But a potential allergy is a good argument for feeding raw - and buying organic eggs. Cooking - especially if you cook and store - increases the histamines. This is partly the reason so many cats are allergic to chicken in cat food, but not when it's fed raw.

So you're going to feed Science Diet?  Which ones?  With what else?  What she's already eating?  The Meow Mix dry?

I picked up a bag of Science Diet grain free chicken flavor which is to be her new dry food which will replace the Meox Mix dry. She will only be fed this as a small part of her diet, the 20% I mentioned. She eats about 5-6 small meals a day. As I said, I feed mostly wet. She gets some dry in the afternoon and before bed, just small portions. The rest of her diet is wet food. I did not find any grain free Science diet cans in the pet store, as in wet food. I did pick up some cans of Fancy Feast classics  though as well as wet food that only contains chicken and no fish added. However, there in lies the problem because I believe the Fancy Feast classics are grain free but the other cans have grain so I'm not going to fix the problem if grain is still getting in there some way. Also, like I said, she really hates pates and that's what the Classic Fancy Feast is. What she really likes are the Medleys and I've been giving her those, chicken variety before. Today I started to transition out the Meow Mix dry and to be honest, she barely ate the food mixed with the new SD one. So now I don't want a cat who is going to have a lack of appetite due to a new food. She also had some minor morning nausea again today which upset me a great deal. That's two mornings in a row now. The whole week I've been home on vacation, she did not wake me up at all but this weekend, she wakes up, smacking and swallowing like she's swallowing back bile. She doesn't throw anything up but it's disconcerting to see her that way. She clearly looks bothered. It usually passes quickly as she'll curl up next to me, go back to sleep, wake up a couple hours later, do it again and then she's fine while she waits to be fed.

My question is will the new diet rid her of this morning nausea? She has never had intestinal troubles before this really. She's starting to remind me of my lymphoma cat and I'm pretty upset  She only started with the morning nausea in January and it was intermittent like maybe 2 Saturdays out of the month. Her allergies were off and on which is probably part of the reason I wasn't more aggressive with the grain free food change too, as in her ears weren't too bad either. I probably sound like I'm all over the place with my decision making but I'm just really hoping to see a true change in her.