head shaking, vets and proteins

irinasak

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This is another rant about vets, or their lack of knowledge about nutrition and about how they treat symptoms, not causes.

Two of my cats are prone to heath issues. Sophie was literally thrown at the garbage when she was born and got ringworm, Harley has herpesvirus.

In october I noticed Sophie shook her head a lot. First vet said she MIGHT have earmites, although he can not see anything and she had a very small ammount of dirt in her years. At his advice, we put stronghold (some sort of frontline that works on different parasites) three times in three months. In december there was no improvement so we took Sophie to another vet. He said her years are very clean, but he will put some ear drops just in case she has an inflamation he cannot see. She was fine until about a week ago, when the shaking became more frequent. She does not scratch, she only shakes as if to get rid of something. Of course tonight we went to another vet (we go to two clinics, each has two doctors, we know them all). This vet said she has allergies. I told her she doesn't scratch or appear to be itching, only shaking. And this is where I got mad: he said too much protein in her diet can cause her symptom and that I should consider adding more kibble. I wrack my nerves to make Sophie eat raw, and I hear him, a vet that I respect and that sterilized all my cats, that too much protein causes allergies! He gave her some shots for allergies and told us to call in two days if there is no improvement!

Among other things, we talked about how my neutered Harley cries every night. I was just making sure there is no health issue related to that, and he gave me calming pills (some sort of plant extract sleeping pills). For Harley! I told him I will take the pills and leave the cat alone ;)

Sorry about the rant. The proteins discussion got me so upset. Also him giving Sophie shots without asking me first. I am just so sorry I put her through this when I don't really think it's allergies.
 
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denice

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She may have a protein allergy but it is to a specific protein not the quantity of protein.  This was the only symptom that Patches exhibited when he developed a chicken allergy.  He did have gunk in his ears though, it looked like wax.  The vet looked at the stuff she cleaned out of his ears under the microscope and it had yeast in it.
 
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irinasak

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Thank you for you reply.

Reading my initial post I realize I have to correct myself: I do not dismiss the idea of Sophie having allergies, it was the "too much protein" thing that got me ranting. I do hope if it is an allergy, it is no food related, as there is only a bunch of foods Sophie is willing to eat.

Anyway, since last night she is shaking her head a lot. I know that it is a reaction to the ear drops and the ears cleaning, I just wish there was a way to make her feel better.
 

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It sounds to me like Sophie has an ear infection, since she isn't doing any scratching along with the shaking of her head
, AND because that one time they put some drops in her ear and that helped for a little while.  Usually with an infection you DO use specific drops in their ears a couple of times a day for a couple of weeks and that takes care of it.  Did anyone take a swab of her inner ear and test it for infection?  Most times you can see the gunk and smell it
, but not always.

As to Harley meowing all night. is this new?  I don't know much about him.  Has his thyroid been checked.  That's the first thing they usually check if a cat suddenty becomes very vocal.  Well, after asking some other questions about this and that.  I think about change in eating habits, things like that.  How hold is Harley?  He looks young in his pictures.  I only ask because sometimes older cats will do this if they begin losing their hearing.  They call out in the dark of night because it gets a little confusing since it's dark AND more quiet (to them).
 
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irinasak

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It sounds to me like Sophie has an ear infection, since she isn't doing any scratching along with the shaking of her head :sigh: , AND because that one time they put some drops in her ear and that helped for a little while.  Usually with an infection you DO use specific drops in their ears a couple of times a day for a couple of weeks and that takes care of it.  Did anyone take a swab of her inner ear and test it for infection?  Most times you can see the gunk and smell it :slant: , but not always.

As to Harley meowing all night. is this new?  I don't know much about him.  Has his thyroid been checked.  That's the first thing they usually check if a cat suddenty becomes very vocal.  Well, after asking some other questions about this and that.  I think about change in eating habits, things like that.  How hold is Harley?  He looks young in his pictures.  I only ask because sometimes older cats will do this if they begin losing their hearing.  They call out in the dark of night because it gets a little confusing since it's dark AND more quiet (to them).
At the first clinic they looked into her ears with some sort of magnifing glass. At the second clinic they put the swab under a microscope. I am pretty sure they all smelled her ears (and I can guarantee she doesn't smell, as I sleep with her under the covers). I don't know if these tests are relevant for discovering infections. No one mentioned antibiotics or drops for treatment, and the shots she received were for allergies. Sophie is a very sensitive being and I know cats hide pain, but I can really tell when something is not right. And she is good at communicating. For example, I know it is the left ear bothering her more, and it soothes her to put the left side of her head in my palm. My plan right now is to wait a day or to too see if anything changes, as the vet said, and then go back for forth and fifth and sixth opinions, I guess.

Harley is 1 year and 1 month old. I had him since he was 4 months old, and the crying began when he was around 8 months old. He had bloodwork done and it was okeish, as ok as it can be for a herpes cat who has all sort of issues (permanent damage in one eye, sensitive tummy, some sort of mild neuropathies that come and go in his feet, he had severe fever when I adopted him and almost died, got a huge hematoma in his thigh because of a brain dead resident who poked him with the needle for fluids, his virst vaccine was expired and so on). After ruling out pain and months of being awoken and staying awake after he woke me (my bf doesn't hear him, so maybe I'm a light sleeper), I have come to several conclusions:
- Harley thinks it is very nice to be fed at 3 am, but after he finishes the food he will start crying again
- it is also nice when Sophie and Amelie wake up and they start running around like mad cats
- the best thing is when mommy wakes up and talks to him and pets him

He does not cry during the day when we are home. I will check tomorrow if the bloodwork included tests for thyroid.
 
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irinasak

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Just a quick update in case there are other cats out there that worry their humans because they shake their heads.

Because the allergy shots had no effect and Sophie still shakes her head, we went back to the vet. He dismissed allergies, otitis - inflamation or infection. He said he has no idea. Her ears are pretty clean, just a tiny ammount of wax. He gave us an ointment that has both hydrocortisone and antibiotic to see if it helps. Of course, the ointment itself makes her shake her head so... I don't know. We'll see.
 

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Hi Irina,

Just catching up on your thread here about Sophie's head-shaking. I cannot believe the comments from that vet about suggesting to feed more dry in response to possible protein allergies!?! Does he by chance sell kibble in his clinic?


Two of my cats are experiencing occasional head shaking right now, but it is winter here and particularly dry. Their coats are not the greatest either - course, dry. I just started them on some alaskan salmon oil a few minutes ago and they all loved it. Come the spring, everything will be fine again.

Just some random thoughts here .. If it were ear mites then Sophie would be doing a lot scratching. When head-shaking isn't associated with mites or a yeast infection, a couple of other possibilities are inner ear irritation which can be due to wax buildup, or possible flea allergy sensitivity. Did anyone do an ear flush yet to check and see if something is lodged further on up the ear canal?

It might not be a bad idea to incorporate some fish oil (if you are not already) and see if this can make a difference. Fish oil is good for a multitude of different skin conditions, and in improving skin and coat in general.
 
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irinasak

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Thank you  @oneandahalfcats for your reply and suggestion.

All the vets here sell kibble, but that is not the reason. This doctor and me have had enough conversations about cat nutrition so now we agree to disagree. He breeds Singapura and Russian Blue and feeds them all only Royal Canin kibble and says they are all doing fine on it. But he doesn't impose anything on me and other than these nutrition issues, he knows I respect him a lot.

No one did an ear flush or mentioned anything like that.

I already have krill oil softgels and I had Salmon oil. Thing is... Sophie really hates it. When I tried to syringe feed her salmon oil (because she wouldn't have it any other way) she had gag reflex and almost vomited - and it wasn't my technique, it was the taste. I will pill her the krill oil, I guess.
 

oneandahalfcats

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Thank you  @oneandahalfcats for your reply and suggestion.

All the vets here sell kibble, but that is not the reason. This doctor and me have had enough conversations about cat nutrition so now we agree to disagree. He breeds Singapura and Russian Blue and feeds them all only Royal Canin kibble and says they are all doing fine on it. But he doesn't impose anything on me and other than these nutrition issues, he knows I respect him a lot.

No one did an ear flush or mentioned anything like that.

I already have krill oil softgels and I had Salmon oil. Thing is... Sophie really hates it. When I tried to syringe feed her salmon oil (because she wouldn't have it any other way) she had gag reflex and almost vomited - and it wasn't my technique, it was the taste. I will pill her the krill oil, I guess.
Well that's good that he respects your decisions. Hope you have good luck in getting to the bottom of this so she can start to feel better.

I am going to do a flush with some Ubavet on my cats today, just in case there might be something brewing there. It's alcohol free and quite gentle.

Re. the Salmon Oil, yes I noticed that this is quite strong. I can see how some cats may not like it. Maggie my little female seemed to like it, but this can change. I will probably end up putting it in wet food for her rather than risk her becoming too strongly adverse. I don't know if it exists, but if you can get a dehydrated form of salmon supplement, this might work?
 
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irinasak

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After 4 days of Fluocinolone N ( a synthetic hydrocortisone derivative and neomycin), it appears that the frequency of the head shaking has decreased. Not gone, but not so frequent. So naturally, this leaves me with other questions:
 it is the hydrocortisone helping, in which case we should suspect an allergy, it is the neomycing working, so is there an infection? Or both?

I realized last night that Sophie is a one-symptom kind of patient - in her medical history there is always only one symptom exhibited, which always makes it hard to diagnose.

Yesterday we also started krill oil, which, of course, I have to pill her with. She has this grossed out look on her face "oh, you-not-so-bright human, can't you understand I HATE fish, even if it comes in a softgel?!"

@oneandahalfcats I haven't researched yet the different options we have for fish oil supplements, but I do know she doesn't like the taste. We have some freeze dried fish treats which she doesn't touch, nor will she eat anything that is fish flavored.
 
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irinasak

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Does anyone have any idea why the Fluocinolone N (a synthetic hydrocortisone derivative and neomycin) worked? It might sound weird but I really want to discover the cause, not only treat the symptoms.

A quick overview: Sophie shook her head with no other symptoms, she shook it like she had water in her ears (that wasn't the case as we never bathed her or used shower/running water next to her). First vet said she might have ear mites, but couldn't see anything. Gave us Stronghold three times/three months, Sophie kept shaking her head.  Second vet said could be allergies, the antihistaminic shots did not help. Third vet said he had not idea but let's try Fluocinolone N. And it worked.
 
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irinasak

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It is my understanding that Fluocinolone N is used to treat Otitis in cats and dogs. There can be different causes for it. The following article discusses Otitis, its causes, treatment and predisposing factors and may provide some insight : http://www.banfield.com/getmedia/51a67aae-96a3-4699-b85b-0b4fe23a5074/1_5-managing-otitis
Thank you for the link. I will read it when I get home, I just took a look at it now and I thought "wow, that's a lot of possible causes" (of otitis).

Interestingly enough (in a bad way), the same vet that gave us the Fluocinolone N is the same that said he doesn't think it is otitis.

Having two cats with many minor health issues (because of their medical history when they were born - Sophie - ringworm, Harley - herpesvirus), I have met a lot of vets. I can honestly say that most are focused on alleviating the symptoms and they're done. The interest in finding the cause is null. Even worse, I get the feeling that human medicine is pretty much symptom-oriented, too.
 

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Thank you for the link. I will read it when I get home, I just took a look at it now and I thought "wow, that's a lot of possible causes" (of otitis).

Interestingly enough (in a bad way), the same vet that gave us the Fluocinolone N is the same that said he doesn't think it is otitis.

Having two cats with many minor health issues (because of their medical history when they were born - Sophie - ringworm, Harley - herpesvirus), I have met a lot of vets. I can honestly say that most are focused on alleviating the symptoms and they're done. The interest in finding the cause is null. Even worse, I get the feeling that human medicine is pretty much symptom-oriented, too.
Oh it is for sure .. Not much difference with human docs unless you come across someone who specializes. Its the time crunch I think. Many docs just don't have the time or energy to be more involved than treating issues.

The same with vets unfortunately, even good ones. They don't always know or have the answers to why or the cause of something as it might be very new to them. Fortunately in your case, this vet knew what to reach for to try and treat and it seems to be working! ..
 
 
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Glad to hear it's working!  As far as treating animals (or humans) symptomatically, a lot of it comes down to money for diagnostics.  Well, at least here in the US. 
 
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