Ulcers in kittens mouth, vet said stomatitis and glossitis?

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chloe16

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I just made him an appointment at a cat only vet in the next city from me. I take him in at 5:30. Im not planning to tell the vet what my vet thinks it is im just taking him for ulcers in the mouth and asking what the vet thinks.
 

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Good luck with everything, and I hope you get an answer to what is causing this.  The cat only vet may have seen more Calci virus and other causes of stomatitis in cats and be able to offer a more confident / accurate diagnosis for you.  Seeing the cat only vet and getting a second opinion can't do any harm but it might give you more information - hopefully not more to confuse you but more to reassure and give confidence in any treatment and or management so your cats can be more comfortable and stay as well as possible.  Your cats are lucky to have someone as their parent who is as caring as you, and to live in an area where you are able to access different resources.  I am sure everyone here will be waiting to hear how you get on with the new vet and what their opinion is of the mouth ulcers.  
  
 
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chloe16

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I am still confused about the feline stomatitis. Im being told by one person its ALWAYS caused by something whether it be gingivitis, calcivirus, herpes etc. Then I have someone telling me that once the reason for the stomatitis is treated (like calcivirus) it will go away, then I have someone else telling me once he has it, he will always have it. Then I have 1 vet telling me he may grow out of it, then whatever this vet is going to tell me. I am so confused I dont know what to believe anymore
 
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mservant

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I'll start with - vets are the people with the qualifications to diagnose what is wrong with your cat.  Sometimes diagnosis between different illnesses and conditions can be very difficult, and 'symptoms' of different illnesses can look very alike so even very experienced vets can take time to find out what is causing a problem or a 'symptom' like sores and ulcers in a mouth.

This all might sound very confusing but if you take all of these points seperately they can all be correct, the important thing to do is think about 'stomatitis' as a symptom, a word used to describe the ulcers in your cat's mouth just like  like a 'fever' or a 'rash' and not the illness itself.  This is the way your vet has used the word.  The stoma or stomatitis as a symptom will always be caused by something and what that something is will dictate whether it will always be a problem your cat will be prone to, something your cat may get from time to time and will possibly continue to get depending on how well the underlying cause is managed (a virus which is in the system like herpes can not be cured but it can be suppressed so it doesn't make a cat ill very often), or whether the cat is likely to grow out of it such as inflamed gums and some ulcerations around the time of teething where secondary infections have become problematic.  Some people may also look at a cat getting stronger and healthier with age and managing to keep a virus at bay and avoid symptoms as growing out of something as well.

If your cat has a virus like herpes that remains in the cat's body even when the syptoms like sores or ulcers go away and the cat is well, it depends on how effective your individual cat is at keeping the virus at bay whether they will get symptoms again: those symptoms my vary and include stomatitis in the mouth, and upper respiratory symptoms like sneezing or coughing, and runny eyes.  If the symptoms are from the virus then antibiotics will not help the symptoms to go away, but if the body gets a secondary (bacterial)  infection as a result of what is happening then your vet would often use antibiotics to help the cat to overcome the bacterial infection.  Your cat would always have this type of virus in their body but not always show signs of illness due to it.  Usually a virus will start to show itself and the cat get symptoms if they are run down due to another illness or due to stress.  If a cat is strong and healthy it may hardly ever show symptoms of the virus and when it does the symptoms may be very slight like the occasional cough or sneeze.  The healthier your cat is and the stronger their immune system the more likely it is your cat will be well despite having a virus in their system.  Remember, a very high percentage of cats carry at least one virus but only a small percentage ever show any symptom or sign that it is there!

Someone saying a cat will always have a virus is very different to saying a cat will always have stomatis.

If someone says your cat will 'always have stomatitis' they are probably meaning Feline Stomatitis which is the most common term used for an auto-immune disease in cats where they seem to reject their teeth, it is often very dificult to resolve and many cats continue to have ulcers or 'stoma' in their mouth after having teeth removed.  Some cats do seem to grow out of this condition with treatment but more people believe it will always be evident.  Remember here that medicine and vererinary medicine are not exact sciences like @Willowy said.

I really hope I have not made this all more confusing for you! 
 
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chloe16

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This was a horrible experience the new vet told me she refuses to treat him unless I transfer all my cats to her. She did say it sounds like calcivirus and he does have a fever but that's pretty much all I got from this appointment. She said she did not want to step on my other vets toes
 

mservant

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   What a shame, sorry they didn't give you helpful information today.Did you take your kitten along today and her have a look at him or just go in for a conversation?

Follow you instincts; as well as your cats needing treatment and care, you have to be able to talk with your vet and feel supported by them.   Having a similar approach to care and treatment, like if a vet likes to be aggressive and test for and treat everything, or if they like to be conservative sometimes.  Whether they listen to you and what you think of feel as well as what their opinion is, or want you to tell them what to do for all treatments and be wholly responsible.  Of the vets you have spoken with do you feel there is one of them you could ask questions and talk through the answers until you understand them, and feel supported in choosing treatment options for your cats?  

A definite diagnosis would be hard for a vet to give you at this point but treatment options at this stage are likely to be similar.  Different vets might want to look at more testing with you and this may have cost implications you have to think about.

In some ways the exact cause of your cats' symptoms are less important than managing them and getting the cats to a point where they feel better.  In the longer term it will be important to know what has caused the symptoms because that is what will tell you if your cat is likely to have the same problem on an ongoing basis (Feline Chronic Gingivitis and Stomatitis), whether they will carry something in their system that they might get sick from again and might pass to other cats (Feline Herpes Virus), or if they will carry something in their system for an unknown period of time and then it will be overcome - but they could catch it again (Feline Calci Virus),  an inflamed mouth  and a URI coincidentally while teething (unlikely but always possible), or indeed something completely different that no one had thought about yet.  That information, once it is apparent, is what your vet will use to advise you how best to look after your cat in the longer term and if any long term things to support their immune system or help them to block a virus like FHV would be a good idea.

Sending good vibes and hope you are able to rest a little, feeling stressed always makes decisions harder.  
 
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chloe16

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I think I'm just going to bring him to the shelter. This virus obviously isn't going to heal and I can't afford to continue to treat it. They told me he won't get better unless I test for feline leukemia and fiv
 

mservant

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That is such a shame for all of you.  Not sure I understand about what they have said about not getting better without those additional tests, but totally understand your concerns about expenses. Really hard.  What are you thinking about with your other cat that has also started to show some of the same symptoms?
 

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The shelter will put him down, just be sure you're OK with that.

Was he tested for FIV/FeLV before? The testing has nothing to do with him getting better; it's just that if he's FeLV positive he won't get better so there's no point continuing treatment. If he's negative the testing won't do any good :dk:.

Viruses just need to run their course. Personally I would continue with the lysine and probiotics and give it a couple weeks. I had one kitty with fairly nasty mouth sores (I'm sure it was calicivirus but I never bothered with a diagnosis). I just pushed lysine and probiotics and made sure she got enough to eat and drink, and she recovered nicely, but it wasn't fast.
 
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chloe16

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Right now only two are showing symptoms of the 7 cats. The one we brought in originally that infected our cats is better, hes not showing anymore symptoms. Riley started with an eye discharge and now he has ulcers. Rayden the 6 month old now has a tongue ulcer. The vet I brought him into today said it was likely calcicvirus but pushed to high heaven the FIV and FeLK test. Just because hes sick with a URI doesnt mean he had FIV or FeLK....? I cant afford to have all 7 cats tested for this. I cannot even afford to have this one tested for it.

If the shelter wants to put him down, I guess that will have to happen. I just dont see any light at the end of the tunnel right now. I just want all my cats to recover and I still have 4 other cats that have yet to show symptoms and I cannot afford to treat them if they do

This new vet told me to not do lysine and famvir at the same time....something about bone marrow interaction. On top of that riley has watery poo I think is caused from the antibiotics...Riley also never had a fever before now he has a low grade fever (39.6 degrees). Now sure what can be done about the fever? So it seems his infection is getting worse though his mouth looks a bit better...
 
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mservant

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   Honestly my gut tels me the same as @Willowy in terms of your cat/s getting better if you let things take their course.  My vets did not think running all sorts of fancy tests were necessary beyond the basic blood tests for generaly screening.  Mouse was better after responding to antibiotics for secondary infections in his mouth and keeping his teeht very clean after that.  When he got runny eyes they gave the anti viral medication once but it didn't make a huge impact, probably because it wasn't his first outbreak and it had been running for a few days before he started it, and the main thing that seems to help him keep well is the L Lysine in addition to brushing his teeth regularly - neither of which is expensive to do.

Have a chat with the shelter, and maybe your regular vet again and see what you feel is best for all of your cats and your self at this point, but nothing you have posted makes me think your cats should continue to be sick or in pain in the longer term or require lots of expensive treatment. See what the shelter and your own vet think. 
 
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chloe16

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Yeah but she is telling me to test for fiv and feline leukemia because he could have it. He was totally healthy until we adopted a sick cat from a rescue...
 

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This is why you always want to separate a new cat from existing cats in the household until you get it tested and vaccinated by your own vet. You never know what the new cat may bring in, regardless of its "clean bill of health" from the shelter. The shelter may not have picked up on something that is lying dormant and shows itself once the new cat gets stressed from moving into a new home.

It sounds like you have a lot of confusion going on between your multiple vets. And I see finances are a problem too. Do you have a credit line open just for vet expenses? When owning seven cats, you need to have some sort of financial planning done ahead of time, before one gets sick, so you don't have to resort to giving one up to a shelter, where it will most likely be put down.
 
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chloe16

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Only 2 of the cats are mine. The rest are my sisters. She's financially responsible for her own but because she brought this sickness into the house she's paying the vet bills. I don't test the cats for feline leukemia or fiv I never have and have never had any issues until now. I had funds until my dog ate through them with his issues no desire I had to go on disability. My credit card is there for groceries dog food cat food etc. I have a small limit and applied for another one just for the pets but got denied. So i am trying and had money saved
 

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Find out if the shelter offers lower-cost FIV/FeLV testing (without surrendering the kitty). Some shelters do, especially if they offer spay/neuter.

It's pretty risky not testing new cats before they come into the home---FeLV is quite contagious to kittens; adult cats do have some natural immunity but not 100%. FIV is much less contagious and isn't really a worry among neutered cats. Hopefully FeLV hasn't been introduced into the home :/. If one of the kittens tested positive it would be difficult to know whether they brought it in or if one of the adult cats had it and passed it on.

But, to be honest, if finances were a problem I'd wait a while before testing for FIV/FeLV. If the kitty improves within a reasonable time I see no reason to suspect an autoimmune disease.
 
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chloe16

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Our shelter doesnt have this testing, they dont even neuter. In Canada, not many shelters off this. I dont mind testing for Feluk or FIV as long as its something that needs to be done. If he comes back positive for feluk isnt that something he needs to euthed for?
 

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As I've been telling you, give it time.  Calici in and of itself can take several weeks to heal.  You said the ulcers were getting better and the gums aren't as pink/red, that is a good sign.  IMO if they had something like Leuk/FIV they would not be showing signs of improvement as both of those diseases affect their immune systems.  We routinely test kittens (well at least recommend it to people) when they get them as well as any cat who has an abscess as FIV is transmitted through cat fights.  Kittens can be born with either disease the FIV or Leuk which is why it's recommended to test before you bring in a new cat/kitten.  Here is some information about Calici:  http://www.pethealthnetwork.com/cat-health/feline-calicivirus-cat-upper-respiratory-infection
 

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If he comes back positive for feluk isnt that something he needs to euthed for?
Well, that's entirely up to you, unless he's very ill. Many do put a positive cat down to keep the other cats from being exposed but since they've all already been living together it's sort of moot at this point. A FeLV+ kitten will probably not live past age 3 or so, although some do make it longer. All depends what you're comfortable with.

But like I said, if you're seeing improvement I wouldn't suspect an autoimmune disease.
 
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chloe16

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I took him to my regular vet today and she told me the stomatitis was gone... She said the redness in the back was likely from a bit of gingivitis or the tooth coming in
 
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