fish and poultry

cranberry

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Hi everyone,

I have an 8 year old cat who weighs 12 pounds.  The vet would like to see her down to 10 pounds (she was 8 pounds when I adopted her 6 years ago.).  I had been feeding her Wellness grain free chicken and turkey (canned), but it looks like these are a bit high in calories and have more fat than protein.  So I've been slowly transitioning her to Weruva, 

The thing is - Weruva seems to have mostly seafood-based flavors.  I've always heard that it's not good to give a cat too much seafood.  She likes the Weruva chicken sometimes; other times she just turns up her nose.   I tried giving her chicken with a smidgen of fish-flavored food and she went wild for it.  I'd like to try Tiki Cat too, but again, so many flavors are seafood based.

I guess my question is - how harmful is it to give a cat seafood cat food?  She hasn't eaten a ton of it before, but whenever she has, she's had no problems. 

And do cats get bored with the same flavors?  I wonder if she's getting tired of poultry. 

Thank you!
 

marc999

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Have a collection on hand:

(1) chicken / turkey / pheasant / duck etc.

(2) pork / rabbit / venison / lamb / beef etc. 

-Lessens the chances of boredom, aversion, or allergy

-Rotate the proteins: chicken 1 week or month, beef or lamb another etc. Just switch it up, find what she'll go for. 

I'd highly recommend getting a digital kitchen weigh scale at your local home improvement store, so you can weigh out the ounces / grams etc. to know exactly how much you're giving her. If we're talking about those 12.5 oz. Wellness cans (Chicken = 500 kcal)  that will really help portion it out.   I'm not sure which particular can you're referring to - more fat than protein? I'm not familiar with that. 

Calories - the general rule of thumb for the 'average' indoor cat appears to be 20 calories per ideal - target pound. 

So, if you want to give her ~ 20 kcal x 10lbs = 200 kcal per day: 

i.e. 500 kcal can / 12.5 oz can = 40 kcal / oz. 

Therefore, 40 kcal / oz * 5 oz = 200 kcal / day. 

or 2.5 oz * 2 meals per day. 

Others will chime in on the seafood.  I've heard that giving him/her a sardine once per week is a good idea.  The kind you find in a tin (in water, not oil). But not to make it a regular part of their diet since she/he may get addicted, not to mention the potential mercury issues in fish. 
 
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furmom101

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The fish in cat food can cause UTI problems from what I've read if given to much/often.

One of my cats is prone to UTI's so he can have NO fish whatsoever. However I do have some fish in my rotation. I use meow mix wet and even in their non fish flavors the food still contains fish. So the short answer fish flavors every now and then should be okay as long as the cat has never had a UTI. But may not be great for everyday when it comes to a lot of cats.

I do switch up flavors and even brands with my cats because I don't want them to get bored, and they do just fine with different brands. They love all of the flavors they have tried with their friskies wet food. I plan to get Sheba and Fancy Feast as well, and try a few of their flavors. They don't like pate so well, and I know pate is the better choice. So I'm also hoping to add that in.

I know it can be stressful figuring out this wet food stuff or cat food stuff in general! But it is so worth it! :) Good luck!
 
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cranberry

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Thanks very much!  I'll look for some other brands that have more non-fish options.  

I've been counting her calories by dividing the number of calories per can (found online) by the number of tablespoons in the can (6 tbsp in a 3 oz. can and 11 tbsp in a 5.5 oz. can)  So one 3 oz. can of her Wellness equals 120 calories, which is 20 calories per tablespoon.

I thought this system would work well because I could control the amount of calories and keep her on Wellness, but she still gained a little weight.  So that's why I decided to try Weruva chicken - fewer calories and fewer calories that come from fat and carbs.  

I wonder, though, if it would be fine to keep her on Wellness for part of her diet.  She really does like it. 

So many decisions...I never knew cat food could be so confusing!  I want to do what's best for her. 

Thank you again!
 

furmom101

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You're very welcome! :)

I would say it should be okay to keep it in her diet! She seems to love it and sometimes that can be hard to find for picky eaters.

What I would do is find something with fewer calories and introduce her to that as her main new food. But sort of like the fish everything in moderation, so give her the Wellness maybe a couple to a few times a week.

And you never know, in time you may find a lower calorie food that she just goes nuts over! :) Keep me posted on what brands she likes! Just take it slow, and give it time. You'll find one! :)
 

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Of course you can keep Wellness in the rotation.  I don't know how many meals per day she eats, but you could feed her Weruva in the morning, Wellness for lunch, and Tiki for dinner.  If you goal is 200 calories per day, then just figure out how much to feed to her achieve that goal.  And, BTW, if she needs to lose a couple of lbs, you may want to figure her target calories on 15 per ideal weight vs 20 per ideal weight.  So that would be 15 times 8 lbs or 120 calories per day.  Luckily for your furbaby, many catfoods are fairly low in calories, she she can still have close to two  3 oz cans per day and keep close to that number.  I know Weruva Paw Lickin  Chicken is only around 60 calories per 3 oz can, if that many.

There is also Soulista, Petco's housebrand.  They are very similar to Weruva, only less expensive.  I believe they are made by Weruva, for Petco.  Again, most of their flavors are fish, but some are chicken, and some are a chicken/fish combination. 

As far as feeding fish, mine get Weruva Mideast Feast, which is Tuna and Tilapia I think, at least once or twice a week and have never had ANY issues.  And I do know some cats eat NOTHING but fish.  Others NEVER eat it due to UTI issues, but it's almost impossible to know if they would get them if they did eat fish. 
 

oneandahalfcats

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Hi everyone,

I have an 8 year old cat who weighs 12 pounds.  The vet would like to see her down to 10 pounds (she was 8 pounds when I adopted her 6 years ago.).  I had been feeding her Wellness grain free chicken and turkey (canned), but it looks like these are a bit high in calories and have more fat than protein.  So I've been slowly transitioning her to Weruva, 

The thing is - Weruva seems to have mostly seafood-based flavors.  I've always heard that it's not good to give a cat too much seafood.  She likes the Weruva chicken sometimes; other times she just turns up her nose.   I tried giving her chicken with a smidgen of fish-flavored food and she went wild for it.  I'd like to try Tiki Cat too, but again, so many flavors are seafood based.

I guess my question is - how harmful is it to give a cat seafood cat food?  She hasn't eaten a ton of it before, but whenever she has, she's had no problems. 

And do cats get bored with the same flavors?  I wonder if she's getting tired of poultry. 

Thank you!
I feed my cats Wellness Grain-free and have never heard of the suggestion that it is higher in fat than protein. I doubt it would be considered among the top foods, if it was. I haven't served the Wellness Turkey however, but think this might be too rich for my crew.

I think you have the right idea as far counting calories and controlling portion size of the Wellnes. If you are free-feeding kibble, it would best to also control the amount of this to a scheduled amount.

I have served Weruva to my cats. It is a good hand-made food (made in small facility by-hand rather than in a large factory). This is a good food that is grain-free and does not contain carageenan. It would be a nice food to rotate with the wellness as it is not at all thick and rich like the Wellness, but more like plain unadulterated shredded meat, with a bit of sauce, and depending on which variety, will have a bit of pumpkin.

I agree with the opinion that a lot of fish is not good for cats that are prone to UTIs. Fish can also be a trigger for allergies due to containing the protein histamine. For these reasons I just don't go there, but do give my cats a bit of tuna now and then as a treat.
 
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cranberry

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You're all so helpful - thank you!  I am still new here, but I like how folks help each other out.

I'm wondering if a pate style food is better for her. Twice now she's had tummy upset after eating Weruva Paw Lickin' Chicken.  I've been switching her to it very gradually and I cut up the pieces of chicken a bit, but I wonder if it's hard for her to digest.  Today I gave her a little of that and a little of the fish, but it didn't go well.

I'm thinking about trying Dave's cat food, too.  From what I understand, it's a pate, grain free, and there are varieties that are 95% meat.  We'll see.

I've been shooting for 160 calories per day for her.   How much does it matter where those calories come from?  (protein, carbs, fat, for example).

She's not a huge fan of dry food.  I have it for her in case I'm ever away or out for a longer period of time and will be late in feeding her.  She'll eat it if she has to, but she prefers canned, which I think is better for her weight anyway.  So I don't push it. 

Thank you again!
 

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Wellness is higher in fat than other brands, but not higher in fat than protein. Weruva is very low calorie. So you have to watch how much you feed her between the two brands.

In general, you want a high protein, moderate fat, and low carb diet. (So, yes, where the calories come from matters.) Carbs tend to encourage weight gain, just as they do in people. Cats, though, are not designed to eat carbs, so they can cause other problems like allergic reactions, UTIs, weight gain, diabetes, etc.

Pates are in general lower in carbs than gravy-based (shredded/minced style) foods. Weruva is more of a stew-style, so I don't know what could be causing the stomach upset. Do mean she vomits the food?
 
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cranberry

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Thanks, Raintyger.

Yes, she does vomit the food.  Not every time...it's only been twice since we started about a week and a half ago.  And I've been switching her gradually.   But when she does vomit, it looks like nothing has been digested.  (Sorry to be gross.)

I guess what I really need is a low carb food and to monitor her daily calories.

I'm thinking perhaps a pate is better for her.

This is the kind I'm considering now: 

http://davespetfood.com/catalog/for-cats/can-for-cats/premium-meat/

Again, many thanks!
 

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My kitty seems to have some issues with that Weruva Paw Lickin' Chicken.  I don't think it's the actual chicken because she's eaten Tiki Cat with no problem and the chicken is in a similar form. I think it's that gravy.  She threw up some once and there were loose stools the other day that may have been from it.  She just doesn't seem to feel well after it.  However she likes it but I'm not feeding anymore and I'll donate the rest of it. It is extremely low calorie which may be good for some cats but didn't fill her up. 

The time she vomited Weruva it hadn't been digested either.
 
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mrsgreenjeens

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Dave's is a pretty decent food. I've been debating trying their 95% line.  One of mine really likes their regular line, but the other two are so darned picky.  They liked BG 96%, so maybe they'll like Dave's .  Merrick told me they had discontinued the BG, but I saw it in the store the other day, so apparently they brought it back , but possibly changed the formula? 
 

oneandahalfcats

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Regarding fat content of Wellness being higher than other brands, I am not sure I agree with this as the fat content on some other grain-free wet I've seen has been comparable. Most guaranteed analysis data on pet food cans is not very reliable. A lot of labels feature proteins, fats and carbs in minimums or maximums, others in percentages. If a protein or fat states that it is a minimum of something, this means that the food could and probably does contain a lot more of that nutrient. I think it takes some advanced math to know for certain how much of each nutrient is in pet food 


Depending on the protein source you choose, the fat content will be higher or lower.

As we are talking about Wellness, they do things a little differently in using terms like 'not less than' in relation to the percentages for protein, fat and carbohydrate.

There is a high amount of protein in Wellness, but one of the proteins will contribute to much of the fat content, and that is the chicken liver. Meats are as follows : Chicken, Chicken Liver, Turkey

The following is the nutritional breakdown for wellness chicken for instance :
Guaranteed Analysis
Crude ProteinNot Less Than10.0%
Crude FatNot Less Than5.0%
Crude FiberNot More Than1.0%
MoistureNot More Than78.0%
 
Another grain-free is Hound and Gatos Beef Wet Food, the breakdown is as follows :

Crude Protein Min............................................10.0%
Crude Fat Min...................................................8.0%
Crude Fiber.....................................................0.50%
Moisture Max.....................................................78%
Phosphorus Min...............................................0.25%
Calorie Content: (ME, Calculated)
1244 kcal/kg. 194 kcal/5.5oz can

Interestingly with Weruva, the guaranteed analysis does not contain moisture but lists the protein, fat and carbs which translates to 100% of the content.

So for instance, the Chicken Frick A Zee variety contains the following breakdown :

Protein : 50.8%

Fat : 47.2%

Carbs: 2.0%

Here is a link to the Weruva Analysis of all foods : http://weruva.com/catsitk-cans-nutrition.php

I haven't tried giving the straight chicken variety of weruva to my crew so can't speak to this, but have tried the Peking Ducken which is Duck and Chicken. Maggie my little finicky girl likes this quite a bit. She has on occasion, vomited Fancy Feast Grilled Chicken, and did so this morning which is twice in the last 48 hours. So I will be dropping this one from the rotation.

For cranberry : If you want a good resource for checking the protein, fat and carb content of all commercial cat foods, here is a link to Dr. Pierson's Food Analysis Chart :

http://www.catinfo.org/docs/FoodChartPublic9-22-12.pdf
 
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cranberry

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Thanks, oneandahalfcats!

I had seen Dr. Pierson's chart and perhaps I was misunderstanding it when I looked at the Wellness fat and protein amounts.  For example, for Wellness grain free chicken (a staple around here), has 30% of the calories coming from protein, 66% coming from fat, and 4% coming from carbohydrates.

Then I looked at Weruva, and saw that it's Paw Lickin' Chicken had 65% of it calories coming from protein, 32% from fat, and 3% from carbohydrates.

That was what made me think that Wellness had more fat than protein.  

I was also keeping in mind the guidelines at the end of that chart: that greater than 50% of calories should come from animal protein, about 20-45% calories should come from fat, and 1-2% should come from carbohydrates.  It's hard to find a food that fits those parameters!

In any event, today I'm going to pick up more of her usual Wellness and some Dave's 95% premium meat varieties, which appear to have fewer carbs.  I might pick up and some Wellness Core (beef, venison and lamb and turkey & duck) so she'll have some more variety and protein sources.

I'll mix the new foods with her usual Wellness and transition her gradually.  I"m thinking that it was the chunks in the Weruva that were disagreeing with her.  I think pate style will work better with her tummy. 

Some good news:  I weighed her last night and she was 11.8 pounds!  Okay, that's not much of a decrease, but at least it's in the right direction!  :)
 

mrsgreenjeens

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Regarding fat content of Wellness being higher than other brands, I am not sure I agree with this as the fat content on some other grain-free wet I've seen has been comparable. Most guaranteed analysis data on pet food cans is not very reliable. A lot of labels feature proteins, fats and carbs in minimums or maximums, others in percentages. If a protein or fat states that it is a minimum of something, this means that the food could and probably does contain a lot more of that nutrient. I think it takes some advanced math to know for certain how much of each nutrient is in pet food 


Depending on the protein source you choose, the fat content will be higher or lower.

As we are talking about Wellness, they do things a little differently in using terms like 'not less than' in relation to the percentages for protein, fat and carbohydrate.

There is a high amount of protein in Wellness, but one of the proteins will contribute to much of the fat content, and that is the chicken liver. Meats are as follows : Chicken, Chicken Liver, Turkey

The following is the nutritional breakdown for wellness chicken for instance :
Guaranteed Analysis
Crude ProteinNot Less Than10.0%
Crude FatNot Less Than5.0%
Crude FiberNot More Than1.0%
MoistureNot More Than78.0%
 
Another grain-free is Hound and Gatos Beef Wet Food, the breakdown is as follows :

Crude Protein Min............................................10.0%
Crude Fat Min...................................................8.0%
Crude Fiber.....................................................0.50%
Moisture Max.....................................................78%
Phosphorus Min...............................................0.25%
Calorie Content: (ME, Calculated)
1244 kcal/kg. 194 kcal/5.5oz can

Interestingly with Weruva, the guaranteed analysis does not contain moisture but lists the protein, fat and carbs which translates to 100% of the content.

So for instance, the Chicken Frick A Zee variety contains the following breakdown :

Protein : 50.8%

Fat : 47.2%

Carbs: 2.0%

Here is a link to the Weruva Analysis of all foods : http://weruva.com/catsitk-cans-nutrition.php

I haven't tried giving the straight chicken variety of weruva to my crew so can't speak to this, but have tried the Peking Ducken which is Duck and Chicken. Maggie my little finicky girl likes this quite a bit. She has on occasion, vomited Fancy Feast Grilled Chicken, and did so this morning which is twice in the last 48 hours. So I will be dropping this one from the rotation.

For cranberry : If you want a good resource for checking the protein, fat and carb content of all commercial cat foods, here is a link to Dr. Pierson's Food Analysis Chart :

http://www.catinfo.org/docs/FoodChartPublic9-22-12.pdf
The Weruva HERE is shown on a Dry Matter Basis, that's why there is no moisture shown and why the protein and fat percentages are so high.  Here is an article explaining the different between Guaranteed Anaylsis, which is listed on cans and bags,and the Dry Matter Basis...apples to oranges
   http://www.thecatsite.com/a/how-to-compare-cat-foods-calculate-carbs-dry-matter-basis
 

oneandahalfcats

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Thanks, oneandahalfcats!

I had seen Dr. Pierson's chart and perhaps I was misunderstanding it when I looked at the Wellness fat and protein amounts.  For example, for Wellness grain free chicken (a staple around here), has 30% of the calories coming from protein, 66% coming from fat, and 4% coming from carbohydrates.

Then I looked at Weruva, and saw that it's Paw Lickin' Chicken had 65% of it calories coming from protein, 32% from fat, and 3% from carbohydrates.

That was what made me think that Wellness had more fat than protein.  

I was also keeping in mind the guidelines at the end of that chart: that greater than 50% of calories should come from animal protein, about 20-45% calories should come from fat, and 1-2% should come from carbohydrates.  It's hard to find a food that fits those parameters!

In any event, today I'm going to pick up more of her usual Wellness and some Dave's 95% premium meat varieties, which appear to have fewer carbs.  I might pick up and some Wellness Core (beef, venison and lamb and turkey & duck) so she'll have some more variety and protein sources.

I'll mix the new foods with her usual Wellness and transition her gradually.  I"m thinking that it was the chunks in the Weruva that were disagreeing with her.  I think pate style will work better with her tummy. 

Some good news:  I weighed her last night and she was 11.8 pounds!  Okay, that's not much of a decrease, but at least it's in the right direction!  :)
Yes, I think what pushes the calories for fat higher is the chicken liver which is also part of the protein count. Not much we can do about this except use portion control. I like that this food is high in protein and very low in carbs. It doesn't bother me so much that the chicken liver is there .. Rather this than chicken by-product or meal


Dr. Pierson is big raw food diet advocate (which is great), but as you say, it would be really hard to find a commercial food that can provide high protein but low fat and carbs, unless you go raw. I think the Weruva comes close although I am not sure where the fat is coming from. It looks pretty lean to me, except for that sauce?

Just for reference, the Dave's looks quite good too, but also has about 10% fat content with chicken liver as well as chicken, like the wellness. Its made here in Canada - I may try and look for it to check it out. Here is the link to the chicken variety for comparison : http://davespetfood.com/product/dav...at-food-chicken-whitefish-dinner-formula-3oz/

Congratulations on the weight loss. It's a small amount but hey, every move in the right direction is great!
 
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cranberry

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Thanks!  :)

I think the Dave's 95% meat varieties have less fat than their Naturally Healthy Grain Free varieties, so those are the ones I'm going to focus on for now.  Fingers crossed!
 

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The Weruva HERE is shown on a Dry Matter Basis, that's why there is no moisture shown and why the protein and fat percentages are so high.  Here is an article explaining the different between Guaranteed Anaylsis, which is listed on cans and bags,and the Dry Matter Basis...apples to oranges
   http://www.thecatsite.com/a/how-to-compare-cat-foods-calculate-carbs-dry-matter-basis
Thanks. Yes I figured as much. All wet foods containing mostly moisture - 78% +. When you subtract the moisture, you are working with the percentage of what is left. So if there is 22% of dry matter for instance, a percentage of this will be protein, fat and carbs and so on. If you factor the moisture back in, you would get 81.4% moisture, 12.5% protein and 4.8% fat for the Frick A Zee, which does sounds a whole better
 
 
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cranberry

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Thanks for all these explanations, everyone!  I started mixing Wellness Core turkey & duck with her regular Wellness yesterday and she LOVES it.  She licks her plate clean, but paces herself.  And I know it's only been 24 hours, but she seems a lot more playful, too.  She's always liked to play, but she's been doing more of it and more running after toys that I toss down the hall.  i know that doesn't necessarily mean it's the food, but it's nice to see nonetheless.

Yay!
 

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Thanks for all these explanations, everyone!  I started mixing Wellness Core turkey & duck with her regular Wellness yesterday and she LOVES it.  She licks her plate clean, but paces herself.  And I know it's only been 24 hours, but she seems a lot more playful, too.  She's always liked to play, but she's been doing more of it and more running after toys that I toss down the hall.  i know that doesn't necessarily mean it's the food, but it's nice to see nonetheless.

Yay!
Awesome!
Glad to hear that the new food was well received. The food could be the reason for the new bounce in her step, you never know. Sounds like she is certainly well-loved in any case. 
 
 
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