Seeking Food Recommendation for 10 Year Old Cats, One of Which Suffers from Constipation

mayadot said:

 
With regards to this list, from what I've read the fact that it's sugar doesn't matter and isn't connected with diabetes because it's indigestible, but maybe that's incorrect? I have not found the stickiness to be an issue since I mix it into his wet food, and honestly I despite being broke and spending thousands on this cat already, I can't let cost be a factor, I would like to do whatever is best for him. 

From reading various threads on lactulose, it seemed to me that the chief complaint that worried me was that it was necessary to increase the dosage over time, though maybe this is also true for Metamucil or not that big a deal?

Right now I am mainly frustrated since the lactulose seems to be hit or miss, and the stress of constantly following him to the litter box and being worried whenever he doesn't poop is taxing. 

Thank you also for the detailed description, Marc999. As for the slippery elm, I certainly have seen numerous recommendations for that and it's something I'm considering, but I guess I'm a bit scared about long term effects since it seems to be a relatively new treatment in use with cats and I haven't seen many veterinary sources recommending it. Please correct me if I'm wrong here because it definitely sounds like a good choice otherwise, I am just always suspicious of new treatments.

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Oh, OK, I remember now, you were posting information in another thread. During the holidays I had some time off and posted more than usual. Backlash was that it was hard to keep track of each kitty's history.

I found the same information re: lactulose sugar and diabetes. I think most people who stated the no sugar reason just wanted to stay away from sugars just in case, and includes me to some extent. The cost factor was more of an issue because people were thinking that if they're getting the same or better results from Miralax, why spend more? There didn't seem to be much downside to Miralax. If the lactulose isn't generating a good response I'd consider Miralax. Make sure he's not blocked first. Miralax will take 2-3 days and only works on stool that is forming. 1/4 tsp. 2x daily is the typical dosage, but many people recommend starting at 1/8 tsp. 2x daily and adjusting until there is satisfactory results. (this is called "dose-to-effect")

More medicine would needed over time for several of the remedies discussed. Off hand, that includes lactulose, Miralax, cisapride, and many fiber based solutions. After a while you do hit a limit as to how much medication you can safely give, and then a rather invasive surgery much be considered (invasive enough that some vets just won't do it). Nub doesn't have megacolon, though, right? This type of situation usually happens with megacolon kitties who have been on cisapride  for several years.

I don't know for sure about the status of slippery elm in cats, but when I read about it, it seemed generally accepted. Have you been to the felineconstipation.org website? I believe it's mentioned there.

oneandahalfcats said:

 
Slippery Elm is one herb that has been found to be a natural, safe supplement for constipation in cats. Most conventional vets likely won't know about it unless they prescribe to holistic or naturopathic therapies in their practice. I use a holistic vet for my cats, and she is quite familiar with Slippery Elm.

The only concern with Slippery Elm is for possible malabsorption problems with medications. As Slippery Elm coats the intestinal tract, it can prevent some medications from being absorbed, so the solution is to give medications at a separate time. Either a few hours before, or after giving Slippery Elm. There has also been some speculation of possible issues with nutrient absorption over time, but there are no current studies that support this. 

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Thanks oneandahalfcats. I don't really believe that the fact that it's 'natural' makes it any better or worse necessarily, as there are many natural plants that are also poisonous or harmful. I just wonder how long it has been used in cats, because it seems that most people aren't seeing any short term effects which is great, but I worry about long term effects with treatments that haven't been around long enough to test. Do you know how long your holistic vet has been using it to treat cats? Most of the research materials I see online only apply to horses.

Raintyger said:

 
Oh, OK, I remember now, you were posting information in another thread. During the holidays I had some time off and posted more than usual. Backlash was that it was hard to keep track of each kitty's history.

I found the same information re: lactulose sugar and diabetes. I think most people who stated the no sugar reason just wanted to stay away from sugars just in case, and includes me to some extent. The cost factor was more of an issue because people were thinking that if they're getting the same or better results from Miralax, why spend more? There didn't seem to be much downside to Miralax. If the lactulose isn't generating a good response I'd consider Miralax. Make sure he's not blocked first. Miralax will take 2-3 days and only works on stool that is forming. 1/4 tsp. 2x daily is the typical dosage, but many people recommend starting at 1/8 tsp. 2x daily and adjusting until there is satisfactory results. (this is called "dose-to-effect")

More medicine would needed over time for several of the remedies discussed. Off hand, that includes lactulose, Miralax, cisapride, and many fiber based solutions. After a while you do hit a limit as to how much medication you can safely give, and then a rather invasive surgery much be considered (invasive enough that some vets just won't do it). Nub doesn't have megacolon, though, right? This type of situation usually happens with megacolon kitties who have been on cisapride  for several years.

I don't know for sure about the status of slippery elm in cats, but when I read about it, it seemed generally accepted. Have you been to the felineconstipation.org  website? I believe it's mentioned there.

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No worries, Raintyger, I certainly don't expect anyone to remember the details of my specific kitty. 

Nub doesn't have megacolon, and they didn't see anything abnormal in his xrays or ultrasound. I'm almost certain that the impaction was caused by a too-high dose of psyllium, but I have no idea what's causing the general constipation. 

I have been to felineconstipation.org but it was a lot to take in so I've only read parts of it, but I've made a google doc with links to all the reading material and will continue plugging away at it!

I think some kitties are just prone to constipation.  Patches is prone to it because of IBD but the cause isn't always know.  I don't know about lactulose but with the Miralax the dosage can be increased, from what my vet told me there isn't an upper limit.  Of course giving top much will cause diarrhea.  I know there is someone here with a megacolon kitty who is giving 1 teaspoon twice a day.  The miralax is easier because of being a powder with no taste that can be mixed in wet food.

mayadot said:

 
Thanks oneandahalfcats. I don't really believe that the fact that it's 'natural' makes it any better or worse necessarily, as there are many natural plants that are also poisonous or harmful. I just wonder how long it has been used in cats, because it seems that most people aren't seeing any short term effects which is great, but I worry about long term effects with treatments that haven't been around long enough to test. Do you know how long your holistic vet has been using it to treat cats? Most of the research materials I see online only apply to horses.

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That's great that Nub has had a good cleansing BM!

The basic function of lactulose and miralax is to keep stools soft. If there are motility issues then this is something that needs to be addressed separately. Being an older kitty, it could be that Nub's digestion is not functioning as well as it once did. With impaired or slowed digestion, comes delayed bowel movements. Slippery Elm and a good probiotic can help improve both the frequency and quality of bowel movements. Probiotics introduce beneficial bacteria which in turn helps to improve digestion and nutrient absorption. A healthy gut helps to support good immune function. You might want to consider adding a bit of probiotic to Nub's wet food and see if this can help to improve the quality of his BMs.

There are many herbs that are not safe for cats, but many that are. Slippery Elm being one. I can't say how long my holistic vet has been using Slippery Elm as this has not come up in conversation, but she has said that she uses it a lot in her practice. Its up to you whether you feel comfortable in going ahead with the SEB, but it is worth keeping in mind that everything, including laxatives and other medications used for constipation, come with some risk of side effects or long-term effects. Ongoing use of laxatives can have the opposite effect of not working at some point which may be what you are seeing with the Lactulose, and in turn may experience with the Miralax. Sole purpose for laxatives is to treat occasional constipation, not to be used ongoing. It's better to get to the root of the problem such as possible poor digestion or IBD, in feeding a good diet and doing things to improve digestion, than to continue just managing the problem with laxatives. I would rather give my cat Slippery Elm than a laxative as I have seen the positive results first-hand. Seeing is believing though.

While I am sure that the recent events must have been very worrisome for you, you may need to start thinking in terms of a new normal for Nub. Where he once may have gone every day, given his age, and possible underlying condition of digestive or IBD issues, his new normal may be to go every second day, but this may still be okay, for him. Until you work out the cause of the constipation and get onto a management plan that is going to work with some regularity, you may continue to see delayed BMs. 

Good vibes for continued progress! ...

PS: the 2-3ml of lactulose would be on the high end for dosage. I have not used anything above 1ml 2x daily with Max, but haven't used Lactulose in some time.

oneandahalfcats said:

 
If there are motility issues then this is something that needs to be addressed separately. Being an older kitty, it could be that Nub's digestion is not functioning as well as it once did. With impaired or slowed digestion, comes delayed bowel movements. Slippery Elm and a good probiotic can help improve both the frequency and quality of bowel movements. Probiotics introduce beneficial bacteria which in turn helps to improve digestion and nutrient absorption. A healthy gut helps to support good immune function. You might want to consider adding a bit of probiotic to Nub's wet food and see if this can help to improve the quality of his BMs.

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This is exactly what I find frustrating I guess, is that the root cause of the constipation hasn't been identified. I know that he isn't the youngest cat anymore, but his outward behavior hasn't really changed. He still plays and runs around and has bouts of high energy. Of course it may be possible that his digestion has slowed down even though he hasn't, but I can't help but feel there may be another cause for the recurring constipation.

The probiotic sounds like a good suggestion, any recommendations on brand/dosing/where to buy them? And are there possible side effects? Also is it safe to give probiotics in combination with Miralax and/or Slippery Elm? And am I correct in my understanding that it's either Miralax or Slippery Elm and not both together? 

oneandahalfcats said:

While I am sure that the recent events must have been very worrisome for you, you may need to start thinking in terms of a new normal for Nub. Where he once may have gone every day, given his age, and possible underlying condition of digestive or IBD issues, his new normal may be to go every second day, but this may still be okay, for him. Until you work out the cause of the constipation and get onto a management plan that is going to work with some regularity, you may continue to see delayed BMs. 

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This is helpful and sage advice, so thank you. As I mentioned though, if there are underlying issues/causes, I'd like to identify those, rather than just treating the symptoms. Any ideas as to other tests or ways to get at the root of this?

oneandahalfcats said:

PS: the 2-3ml of lactulose would be on the high end for dosage. I have not used anything above 1ml 2x daily with Max, but haven't used Lactulose in some time.

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mayadot said:

 
This is exactly what I find frustrating I guess, is that the root cause of the constipation hasn't been identified. I know that he isn't the youngest cat anymore, but his outward behavior hasn't really changed. He still plays and runs around and has bouts of high energy. Of course it may be possible that his digestion has slowed down even though he hasn't, but I can't help but feel there may be another cause for the recurring constipation.

The probiotic sounds like a good suggestion, any recommendations on brand/dosing/where to buy them? And are there possible side effects? Also is it safe to give probiotics in combination with Miralax and/or Slippery Elm? And am I correct in my understanding that it's either Miralax or Slippery Elm and not both together? 

This is helpful and sage advice, so thank you. As I mentioned though, if there are underlying issues/causes, I'd like to identify those, rather than just treating the symptoms. Any ideas as to other tests or ways to get at the root of this?

Click to expand...

Finding the cause can be really hard. I think you mentioned an ultrasound once, did that reveal anything? In my kitty it showed diminished movement in the colon.

Probiotics are very safe (although not 100% without side effects). You can get pet probiotics in the pet store. Or some people use human grade. There's a lot of controversy over whether it is good to use human probiotics or not. The argument against is that probiotics can be specific to the animal, so some probiotics found in the human gut aren't found in a cat's gut. But then again a lot of pet probiotics come from animals other than a cat.

Here's a brand that a lot of forum members use. It is human grade and contains basic bacteria:

http://www.naturalfactors.com/caen/products/detail/2879/acidophilus-and38-bifidus-

Here's a long thread that I started a while back discussing probiotics:

http://www.thecatsite.com/t/262587/probiotics-search-human-grade-and-cfus

While I can't say that a vet or medical professional has said/written that probiotics combined with Miralax or slippery elm is safe, I did give probiotics to my kitty without adverse effect, and I see no reason why not.

Miralax and slippery elm address different issues, so you can give both.

mayadot said:

 
This is exactly what I find frustrating I guess, is that the root cause of the constipation hasn't been identified. I know that he isn't the youngest cat anymore, but his outward behavior hasn't really changed. He still plays and runs around and has bouts of high energy. Of course it may be possible that his digestion has slowed down even though he hasn't, but I can't help but feel there may be another cause for the recurring constipation.

The probiotic sounds like a good suggestion, any recommendations on brand/dosing/where to buy them? And are there possible side effects? Also is it safe to give probiotics in combination with Miralax and/or Slippery Elm? And am I correct in my understanding that it's either Miralax or Slippery Elm and not both together? 

This is helpful and sage advice, so thank you. As I mentioned though, if there are underlying issues/causes, I'd like to identify those, rather than just treating the symptoms. Any ideas as to other tests or ways to get at the root of this?

Click to expand...

I believe you mentioned that you had x-rays done and this indicated that there was no megacolon, which is great.  I suppose you could do further diagnostic testing, but would you learn anything more definitive? I think the thing now is to start doing a process of elimination in trying some Slippery Elm and Probotics, but I would suggest NOT together everyday. If you start everything all at once, then you won't know what is working. In doing these two things separately, you will better see if the constipation problem is the result of a possible IBS or motility related issue (which the SEB can help with) as it is also a fibre source, or digestive issue (which the Probiotic can help with), although some IBS symptoms can be relieved with probiotics as well.

Regarding Slippery Elm and Miralax together, honestly, given the results that I have had with SEB, there is a good chance that you may not need to use Miralax at all. Its that effective. So, I would suggest to start with the SEB and see how well this works on Nub, and give it a good two weeks trial. Once you see some consistent results, then you can think about adding Probiotics, on alternate days. So one day of SEB, and then the next day would be Probiotic. The other important consideration regarding SEB is that because it works by coating the intestinal tract, it can interfere with the absorption of other things, like medications and possibly the probiotics. You also want to prevent possible stomach upset. All good reasons to do these two things separately.

You can purchase Slippery Elm compound as a capsule supplement, and you can also buy it in a bulk compound at health or whole food stores. I am using the capsule supplement form (but I will be purchasing the bulk powder next time) which I open and pour the contents into a small dish and add water (about 2tbsp per capsule) and mix well until the powder is dissolved into the water. Water with SEB is very important! You can also make the syrup which lasts for 3-4 days or something like this, but I prefer to mix fresh every morning.  Everyone gets a teaspoon of liquid in their wet food. Here is a link that I may have given you before, it is to Dr. Hovfre's page on Slippery Elm : http://www.littlebigcat.com/health/slippery-elm/. It provides background on SEB, dosages to give, how to prepare, etc.

Re. changing Nub and Squish's food .. Yes, I think that if you can get them both onto a good grain-free wet food diet, this will be the best thing in the long run. I don't recall if your cats were getting kibble or wet or both. As far as Royal Canin, I think in the very short term this would be 'okay', but I would not make this a permanent arrangement, in favor of making wet food the majority of the diet. A lot of the RC foods contain grains such as corn, wheat, soy and corn and wheat glutens which are used as either cheap forms of protein or as fillers in the dry food. Cats need meat and the best form of this is wet food, preferably grain-free. Dry food is dehydrating, and cats that a prone to constipation should not be on kibble. If additional fibre is necessary, there are other ways to provide this such as the psylium in a controlled amount, or pumpkin, even the Slippery Elm is a form of fibre!

As most good probiotics are live culture, you will need to keep this in your fridge to keep the beneficial bacteria alive. You will want to start with a small amount at first to see if Nub will tolerate this well. So splitting a capsule in half sprinkled into wet food, will be a good place to start. The probiotics will be good for Squish as well so Nub can share. 

I hope this covers most if not all of your questions from above. If you think of anything else, or have any questions about preparing the SEB, just PM me or leave another post, and I will follow up when I can.

Hope Nub is continuing to do well ...

Raintyger said:

 
Finding the cause can be really hard. I think you mentioned an ultrasound once, did that reveal anything? In my kitty it showed diminished movement in the colon.

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He did have an ultrasound as well as xrays but they didn't reveal anything as far as I know.

I asked my vet what the potential causes could be and he wrote back yesterday saying that it was indeed difficult and that the causes could be for example: "dehydration, dietary causes (obesity, reduced fluid intake (dry food), excess hair ingestion), inactivity, wrong litter type, pressure from the outside (fractures - not the case with Nub), aging, dysautonomia, pain etc - so many."

With regards to each of these:

• Dehydration/reduced fluid intake: I don't think is an issue since Nub eats almost entirely wet mixed with plenty of water.
• Inactivity: Nub is pretty active for an indoor cat, much moreso than his sister. While of course he gets less activity than outdoor cats, he plays daily and is awake for many hours of the day, and his activity level hasn't changed noticeably. He may run a little less than he used to because we have a smaller apartment now, but I don't think it's a major reduction in activity level, and definitely no reduction since a year ago when we already lived here and he was pooping fine.
• Wrong litter type: I imagine is probably not an issue since he uses the box around 3 times a day to urinate and doesn't seem to mind the litter.
• Dysautonomia: I looked this up and while I suppose it's possible it seems rare and I don't notice on him any other symptoms listed.

So that leaves:

• Obesity: He is heavier than he should be, but not super overweight and he certainly used to be heavier. I believe him to be 12-13 pounds now (and I he has a sort of stocky build), when he was younger he reached around 16 pounds. I will work on helping him lose weight slowly, but again since this hasn't changed and he's not that overweight I'm not sure if it's a cause. 
• Aging: Can of course be a factor but 10 isn't THAT old and as I said, due to his activity levels and behavior not changing otherwise, I am not sure if this is a cause.
• Pain: His xrays do show a small amount of arthritis in his spine, so that could be an issue, but compared to the xrays taken last year that has not changed at all and he still jumps and doesn't seem to experience pain when i touch press along his back so I'm not sure how much of a factor this could be. Any way to rule this out definitively?
   
• The most likely culprit in my mind is the excess hair ingestion: Since last year when we moved to this apartment, both Nub and his sister have seemed to suffer from some kind of allergy symptoms. They alleviated somewhat in the summer but were worse last and this winter. Nub's symptoms are more severe than Squish's with frequent licking, head shaking, skin rolling, and scratching. (He fortunately hasn't licked/scratched any areas bald or anything, but there is a noticeable discomfort in his skin). I tried switching him to an allergy food (which is that Quail Trovet he's been eating plus a small amount of the Hill's Hypoallergenic dry) and a topical skin treatment but I haven't seen any results.

Through process of elimination, my best guesses are that the allergy is either a result of something to do with the radiator heating in our apartment (though our last apartment also had radiators), or with mold/mildew (which is common in the Netherlands). Feedback on this is appreciated if anyone has allergy experience.

Any thoughts on how likely it is for hair ingestion to cause constipation? Would there be a way to validate this? I do see hair in his stool sometimes and he used to have hairballs occasionally but hasn't for quite some time. Would they have seen some evidence of this in the xrays/ultrasound? 

Raintyger said:

Probiotics are very safe (although not 100% without side effects). 

Click to expand...

What side effects should I look for? And thanks for the probiotics resources. I asked my vet about this and he did say he recommends it generally, so I will look into adding those after figuring out if Slippery Elm or Miralax work. 

oneandahalfcats said:

 
 I think the thing now is to start doing a process of elimination in trying some Slippery Elm and Probotics, but I would suggest NOT together everyday. If you start everything all at once, then you won't know what is working. In doing these two things separately, you will better see if the constipation problem is the result of a possible IBS or motility related issue (which the SEB can help with) as it is also a fibre source, or digestive issue (which the Probiotic can help with), although some IBS symptoms can be relieved with probiotics as well.

Regarding Slippery Elm and Miralax together, honestly, given the results that I have had with SEB, there is a good chance that you may not need to use Miralax at all. Its that effective. So, I would suggest to start with the SEB and see how well this works on Nub, and give it a good two weeks trial. Once you see some consistent results, then you can think about adding Probiotics, on alternate days. So one day of SEB, and then the next day would be Probiotic. The other important consideration regarding SEB is that because it works by coating the intestinal tract, it can interfere with the absorption of other things, like medications and possibly the probiotics. You also want to prevent possible stomach upset. All good reasons to do these two things separately.

You can purchase Slippery Elm compound as a capsule supplement, and you can also buy it in a bulk compound at health or whole food stores. I am using the capsule supplement form (but I will be purchasing the bulk powder next time) which I open and pour the contents into a small dish and add water (about 2tbsp per capsule) and mix well until the powder is dissolved into the water. Water with SEB is very important! You can also make the syrup which lasts for 3-4 days or something like this, but I prefer to mix fresh every morning.  Everyone gets a teaspoon of liquid in their wet food. Here is a link that I may have given you before, it is to Dr. Hovfre's page on Slippery Elm : http://www.littlebigcat.com/health/slippery-elm/. It provides background on SEB, dosages to give, how to prepare, etc.

Click to expand...

Thanks, this is helpful, and sounds indeed like a good idea to try one thing at time to identify what's working.

oneandahalfcats said:

Re. changing Nub and Squish's food .. Yes, I think that if you can get them both onto a good grain-free wet food diet, this will be the best thing in the long run. I don't recall if your cats were getting kibble or wet or both. As far as Royal Canin, I think in the very short term this would be 'okay', but I would not make this a permanent arrangement, in favor of making wet food the majority of the diet. A lot of the RC foods contain grains such as corn, wheat, soy and corn and wheat glutens which are used as either cheap forms of protein or as fillers in the dry food. Cats need meat and the best form of this is wet food, preferably grain-free. Dry food is dehydrating, and cats that a prone to constipation should not be on kibble. If additional fibre is necessary, there are other ways to provide this such as the psylium in a controlled amount, or pumpkin, even the Slippery Elm is a form of fibre!

Click to expand...

Squish is on a mostly wet diet. She really prefers the dry so I do give her some, but she's probably 70/30 wet. Nub is on an almost entirely wet diet, he gets a tiny amount of dry (7-10 pieces) at the same time as his sister so he doesn't try to eat out of her bowl. I also mix quite a bit of water with their food (maybe around 150ml each), so I don't think that hydration is an issue with Nub. 

Since Nub has a sensitive stomach in general and food switching has to be done extremely gradually with him, I'm wondering if it's not a good idea to just slowly switch them to a Royal Canin wet food. I know that it does contain grain, but I'm just not sure what other options I have as far as food that is available both in Europe and elsewhere (if anyone knows of any good resources, I'd be very happy to hear them, I've just been looking on individual sites in different countries and trying to compare them side-by-side), and I'm not sure it's good to keep switching them to different foods anyway, right?

oneandahalfcats said:

As most good probiotics are live culture, you will need to keep this in your fridge to keep the beneficial bacteria alive. You will want to start with a small amount at first to see if Nub will tolerate this well. So splitting a capsule in half sprinkled into wet food, will be a good place to start. The probiotics will be good for Squish as well so Nub can share.  

Hope Nub is continuing to do well ...

Click to expand...

Good tip on the fridge, thanks. When you say 'tolerate' it, what exactly do you mean? How may he not tolerate it?

Nub is doing relatively well. He didn't poop yesterday, but he still had an appetite so I'm grateful for that. 

mayadot said:

 
He did have an ultrasound as well as xrays but they didn't reveal anything as far as I know.

I asked my vet what the potential causes could be and he wrote back yesterday saying that it was indeed difficult and that the causes could be for example: "dehydration, dietary causes (obesity, reduced fluid intake (dry food), excess hair ingestion), inactivity, wrong litter type, pressure from the outside (fractures - not the case with Nub), aging, dysautonomia, pain etc - so many."

With regards to each of these:

• Dehydration/reduced fluid intake: I don't think is an issue since Nub eats almost entirely wet mixed with plenty of water.
• Inactivity: Nub is pretty active for an indoor cat, much moreso than his sister. While of course he gets less activity than outdoor cats, he plays daily and is awake for many hours of the day, and his activity level hasn't changed noticeably. He may run a little less than he used to because we have a smaller apartment now, but I don't think it's a major reduction in activity level, and definitely no reduction since a year ago when we already lived here and he was pooping fine.
• Wrong litter type: I imagine is probably not an issue since he uses the box around 3 times a day to urinate and doesn't seem to mind the litter.
• Dysautonomia: I looked this up and while I suppose it's possible it seems rare and I don't notice on him any other symptoms listed.

So that leaves:

• Obesity: He is heavier than he should be, but not super overweight and he certainly used to be heavier. I believe him to be 12-13 pounds now (and I he has a sort of stocky build), when he was younger he reached around 16 pounds. I will work on helping him lose weight slowly, but again since this hasn't changed and he's not that overweight I'm not sure if it's a cause. 
• Aging: Can of course be a factor but 10 isn't THAT old and as I said, due to his activity levels and behavior not changing otherwise, I am not sure if this is a cause.
• Pain: His xrays do show a small amount of arthritis in his spine, so that could be an issue, but compared to the xrays taken last year that has not changed at all and he still jumps and doesn't seem to experience pain when i touch press along his back so I'm not sure how much of a factor this could be. Any way to rule this out definitively?
   
• The most likely culprit in my mind is the excess hair ingestion: Since last year when we moved to this apartment, both Nub and his sister have seemed to suffer from some kind of allergy symptoms. They alleviated somewhat in the summer but were worse last and this winter. Nub's symptoms are more severe than Squish's with frequent licking, head shaking, skin rolling, and scratching. (He fortunately hasn't licked/scratched any areas bald or anything, but there is a noticeable discomfort in his skin). I tried switching him to an allergy food (which is that Quail Trovet he's been eating plus a small amount of the Hill's Hypoallergenic dry) and a topical skin treatment but I haven't seen any results.

Through process of elimination, my best guesses are that the allergy is either a result of something to do with the radiator heating in our apartment (though our last apartment also had radiators), or with mold/mildew (which is common in the Netherlands). Feedback on this is appreciated if anyone has allergy experience.

Any thoughts on how likely it is for hair ingestion to cause constipation? Would there be a way to validate this? I do see hair in his stool sometimes and he used to have hairballs occasionally but hasn't for quite some time. Would they have seen some evidence of this in the xrays/ultrasound? 

What side effects should I look for? And thanks for the probiotics resources. I asked my vet about this and he did say he recommends it generally, so I will look into adding those after figuring out if Slippery Elm or Miralax work. 

Thanks, this is helpful, and sounds indeed like a good idea to try one thing at time to identify what's working.

Squish is on a mostly wet diet. She really prefers the dry so I do give her some, but she's probably 70/30 wet. Nub is on an almost entirely wet diet, he gets a tiny amount of dry (7-10 pieces) at the same time as his sister so he doesn't try to eat out of her bowl. I also mix quite a bit of water with their food (maybe around 150ml each), so I don't think that hydration is an issue with Nub. 

Since Nub has a sensitive stomach in general and food switching has to be done extremely gradually with him, I'm wondering if it's not a good idea to just slowly switch them to a Royal Canin wet food. I know that it does contain grain, but I'm just not sure what other options I have as far as food that is available both in Europe and elsewhere (if anyone knows of any good resources, I'd be very happy to hear them, I've just been looking on individual sites in different countries and trying to compare them side-by-side), and I'm not sure it's good to keep switching them to different foods anyway, right?

Good tip on the fridge, thanks. When you say 'tolerate' it, what exactly do you mean? How may he not tolerate it?

Nub is doing relatively well. He didn't poop yesterday, but he still had an appetite so I'm grateful for that. 

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Good to hear that Nub and Squish are on a mostly wet diet.

I saw your comments on ingested hair and constipation. Cats can definitely become constipated from ingested hair. Normally the hair should be getting pooped out. If its not, then adding more fibre can help with this. The SEB is a form of fibre so you may see an improvement in this respect.

I thought about this after posting yesterday, but one of the RC diets may be better than most and that is the hypoallergenic diet which doesn't have any corn in it, but at the same time it doesn't have much meat in it either. As you are only giving dry as a supplement to the mostly wet, it might be a good option. Here is a link to this RC product : http://www.royalcanin.ca/index.php/...ry-Therapeutic-Formulas/Hypoallergenic-HP-Dry

Depending on the Probiotic you go with, some ingredients may cause vomiting or diarrhea. The Natural Factors that Raintyger posted a link to for instance, contains non-medicinal ingredients such as Lactose, whey powder, powdered goat’s milk. As some cats may be lactose-intolerant, its good to use a little at first to see if these ingredients are going to be tolerated well. 

Depending on the Probiotic you go with, some ingredients may cause vomiting or diarrhea. The Natural Factors that Raintyger posted a link to for instance, contains non-medicinal ingredients such as Lactose, whey powder, powdered goat’s milk. As some cats may be lactose-intolerant, its good to use a little at first to see if these ingredients are going to be tolerated well. 

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Regarding the other ingredients in the Natural Factors probiotic, they are there to provide food for the bacteria. Most probiotics have some sort of substrate to feed the bacteria--otherwise, the product would not last very long or even arrive DOA. It is very common to use some sort of milk sugar or starch. The amounts, however, are very small and only enough to keep the bacteria going in order to reasonably guarantee product effectiveness until its expiration date. The Natural Factors has been used by forum members because of its use of goat's milk, which does not cause as many digestive problems when compared to cow's milk.

Raintyger said:

 
Regarding the other ingredients in the Natural Factors probiotic, they are there to provide food for the bacteria. Most probiotics have some sort of substrate to feed the bacteria--otherwise, the product would not last very long or even arrive DOA. It is very common to use some sort of milk sugar or starch. The amounts, however, are very small and only enough to keep the bacteria going in order to reasonably guarantee product effectiveness until its expiration date. The Natural Factors has been used by forum members because of its use of goat's milk, which does not cause as many digestive problems when compared to cow's milk.

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I am actually using the Natural Factors double strength probiotic and get the purpose of the other ingredients which are totally fine and necessary, but I know from experience that some cats can experience vomiting (and possibly diarrhea) when first getting used to probiotics, especially this one that may be stronger than most  - This has happened to Max and Thomas. On the second day of giving a small amount (not the whole capsule) split between all cats, Max vomited his entire feeding all at once (he has never vomited his food before). He was laying on the couch and then all of the sudden he started to hurl and the vomit came out very quickly and went everywhere. It was like the vomiting scene in the restaurant from Monty Pythons Meaning of Life (for those who have seen this movie) A few days later Thomas had a bit of vomit after his feeding. I know it isn't the food as all cats have been on the same diet with no problems.

I agree that Probiotics can be very beneficial which is why I made the suggestion to Mayadot. I still continue to give the probiotic to my cats and everything seems to be fine now. But its important to point out that some cats might not tolerate probiotics initially or if they have a lactose intolerance, even though there may be small amounts of lactose and the goat's milk in this particular product. So small amounts to start are advised.

I have a cat with chronic constipation (Edwin), and he is on 1/8 teaspoon of Miralax once a day, mixed in with his wet food- I was assured by my vet that he could be on this for the rest of his life without side effects.  I tried Slippery Elm Bark, and the smell and taste is awful. They eat high protein, grain-free food (Blue Buffalo Wilderness wet and dry).  My vet said that rice is horrible for a cat- I can't remember what she said it does, but it's bad.

Like anything else I suppose, Slippery Elm is sourced from different places and the smell and taste will likely be different as the result. Ultimately, SEB should have a slightly sweet smell and taste. Some cats may or may not like this. If it tastes bitter however, then it shouldn't be used. Its always a good idea to give the mixture a taste before giving it to your cat.

White rice is not a great source of carb for cats as it is refined and therefore doesn't provide a lot of nutrients, but is highly digestible compared to corn, wheat and barley. Brown rice is a better source of nutrients but I have read that it can interfere with the absorption of taurine.

Originally Posted by Raintyger  

 

Have you asked the vet specifically about all the scratching? Although their symptoms may not be that severe, I wonder if there are other things going on internally like inflammation of some sort?

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oneandahalfcats said:

I thought about this after posting yesterday, but one of the RC diets may be better than most and that is the hypoallergenic diet which doesn't have any corn in it, but at the same time it doesn't have much meat in it either. As you are only giving dry as a supplement to the mostly wet, it might be a good option. Here is a link to this RC product : http://www.royalcanin.ca/index.php/...ry-Therapeutic-Formulas/Hypoallergenic-HP-Dry

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Thanks for this, that could be a good option for the dry. Any tips about RC wet that's less bad? 

 

Hi mayadot,

The litter box incidents are strange, but I don't know what to make of them, either. Could it be considered "straining"? Maybe he was trying to unsuccessfully poop? Keep an eye out. Any deviations which are problematic or show pain should be looked into with a vet.

I had one vet say that hairball problems usually manifest themselves by vomitting/vomitting attempts, but another vet did note that there were lots of hairballs in the waste after performing an enema, and postulated that could be the problem (it wasn't). Do you see lots of loose fur around the house? Does their fur coat seem thin or have patches of skin showing? If you pet them, does an unusual amount of fur come off? I'm assuming Amsterdam is probably colder than where you were living previously, so I would think the natural tendency would be to have a thicker coat and not shed as much.

A yucky note--I wasn't aware of how much hairballs got eliminated until my kitty started having constipational problems and I examined the waste. I fed wet, and the hairball problem did go down quite a bit when I switched to 100% wet. The hairballs were getting eliminated, as they should, through the stool, but since they were covered in the stool, it didn't appear so until I examined it. So maybe your kitties' hairballs are going unnoticed?

I thought, too, that this was something environmental since both kitties are having similar problems. Doubly so if the problems seem to come and go at the same time. You did mention moving in the near future, so hopefully that will help.

I don't know too much about prescription foods since I never fed (refused) to feed them, but I know that in general the RC line is supposed to be nutritionally better than the Hill's line.

Raintyger said:

The litter box incidents are strange, but I don't know what to make of them, either. Could it be considered "straining"? Maybe he was trying to unsuccessfully poop? Keep an eye out. Any deviations which are problematic or show pain should be looked into with a vet.

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It probably could be considered 'straining', I'm not sure. He didn't seem to show discomfort while using the box, but more strange behavior has taken place over the last couple of days. This morning he peed for a couple of seconds, then hopped out of the box and left. A few minutes later he came back and peed more, seemingly normally. Then this afternoon he peed again (he usually doesn't pee in the afternoon) and after peeing he meowed a few times. 

He did have struvite crystals 8 years ago but hasn't since. Every time he goes he does produce quite a bit of urine, the size varies but at least the size of an egg 3 times a day, which is normal for him. Since there's always a good amount of pee and he eats almost entirely wet food with tons of water added I wasn't really concerned about that, but of course now I am too. It's weird that this is around the same time as the poop problem though, and I'm wondering if there could be something that would explain both issues? 

Also, I really want to resolve the food issue ASAP and I'm just so torn in terms of a decision. I'm pretty certain that I don't want to go a high-fiber route, but I'm not sure whether I should go with another low fiber food like a Royal Canin that I can then maintain if/when we move elsewhere, or if I should search for a grain-free food and then switch them when we move. 

Raintyger said:

A yucky note--I wasn't aware of how much hairballs got eliminated until my kitty started having constipational problems and I examined the waste. I fed wet, and the hairball problem did go down quite a bit when I switched to 100% wet. The hairballs were getting eliminated, as they should, through the stool, but since they were covered in the stool, it didn't appear so until I examined it. So maybe your kitties' hairballs are going unnoticed?

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Thanks for the tip, I'll try breaking open some of his poop (fun!) to see if I can see something. 

When my kitty had a UTI she was going to the litter box every couple of minutes. But if you've noticed a change in behavior it's usually not good. At least you're saying the volume was OK, right? Not little drips/drops? Egg size is good. The typical size is about that of a golf ball.

I can't think of anything that would explain both constipation and UTI, but most of my knowledge is limited to constipation and a few other things that my kitty had. Perhaps you should start a new thread, maybe that will attract the attention of other members.

With constipation I made a lot of changes to the food, so you might need to switch foods a lot anyway. Although there's foods with better nutritional content than RC, RC is in general better than other prescription diets. Here's the things I would consider:

--Are your kitties sensitive to dietary changes?

--Is moving likely to cause a lot of stress?

--Are there other medical conditions that better nutrition would address? A high protein/low carb, wet diet addresses a lot of different medical conditions.

--The U.S. seems to have more selection in terms of cat food. If you wind up in the U.S., would you change from RC anyway if you found food that you liked better?

--Are there grain free foods that are not the same brand, but similar in content? You could go grain free and then pick a very similar food once you move.

Another thing is that you don't know what's going to happen with RC. You could try RC. Maybe it won't even work out, then you have to go for the grain free anyway!

Whatever you do, you might want to find out what food works and then stock up and mail it to yourself before you move.

mayadot said:

 
Thanks for this, that could be a good option for the dry. Any tips about RC wet that's less bad? 

 

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Hi Mayadot,

Many of the RC wet foods have some grains in them as well unfortunately. I took a quick look and there are two canned diets that might not be too bad in the interim. The Hypoallergenic wet food which has Duck, Duck Liver, Duck Meal for protein with some rice flour and rice gluten but no corn or wheat gluten.  There is also the Sensitivity VR which is Venison with a bit of brewers yeast. No grains but it does contain vegetable oil. Max was on Sensitivity VR for awhile when I was doing a food trial.

Here are links to both foods :

Hypoallergenic RC http://www.royalcanin.ca/index.php/...inary-Therapeutic-Formulas/Hypoallergenic-Wet

Sensitivity VR : http://www.royalcanin.ca/index.php/...inary-Therapeutic-Formulas/Sensitivity-VR-Wet