UTI?

I really hate to start another thread because I feel like I am clogging up the boards with my questions/concerns. However,  I have another worry to add to my list and need some advice. It's dear Grace again. I had made a thread before about my cats playing in the litterbox which is in this thread here: http://www.thecatsite.com/t/270700/strange-litterbox-behavior if you want to read some background info. The vet ruled it to be behavioral. Also, I just took Grace to the vet almost 2 weeks ago for some perceived weight loss which I don't think is related to this which is why I am starting a new thread. Anyway, at Grace's last appointment I had brought up that I thought she was peeing more frequently but honestly, I wasn't sure. The vet prescribed some Clavamox to be on the safe side but it didn't agree with Grace and since I didn't have definitive proof that she had a UTI, I stopped it. She seemed to go back to normal and wasn't hanging out too much near the box.

Well yesterday I got home from work and Grace's sister Delilah went to the litterbox, did her usual and luckily this time didn't play in it. Well then Grace comes along and goes in the other box and does #2. Well of course Delilah, not to be outdone, comes over and proceeds to bury Grace's business some more. So I am in the room where the litterbox is folding laundry and Grace comes back to the box and squats so I figure she is urinating and she doesn't like to be watched so I left the room. Also it's not unusual for her to do #2 and then come back and pee a short time later. After she left, I resumed folding my clothes. Well Grace comes back again into the box and I assumed she was just going to play in it. However, she squatted again so I did a double take thinking how can she have to pee when she peed 5 minutes ago? Now I'm not even 100% sure she peed the first time or the second to be honest. I rang the vet and he again said it sounds like a UTI and to maybe resume the Clavamox but honestly I don't want to give my cat meds that make her ill if this isn't proven to be a UTI. He said my other option is to keep her away from the box for a few hours and take her in so they can get a sample. I'm just not sure what to do. She did go back to the box about 3 hours later and played in it again but I didn't see her squatting the rest of the night. Any advice/ideas?

It could be that Grace did not pee the first time, but returned to pee?

I would definitely opt for the urinalysis before giving more antibiotic, especially clavamox which you say she does not tolerate well. This way the urine can be tested to confirm UTI and determine what kind of bacteria is causing it, so the right antibiotic can be administered. It would also be a good idea to give her a course of probiotics to replenish the good bacteria lost while on the previous round of clavamox.

How is Grace doing otherwise. Is she eating, drinking well?

Are you sure she peed twice? I only ask because you say that Grace doesn't like to be watched and you may have put her off the first time. You also say about her not being outdone, so she may have been scenting. My cat will sometimes go into the litter box, dig around then walk off without peeing, then go back moments later.

My cat had a UTI. He cried when he peed because it hurt. He urinated blood. He sprayed the walls. He licked his bits immediately after urinating for quite a long time, he also licked himself all over his hind, legs, tail, everything because of pain of urinating. He was sleepy too.

So is Grace doing any of these things?

The other thing I feel I should add, is that you may be jumping to conclusions again. Your cat may very well have peed twice in a short amount of time, but how does that equal a UTI? If she keeps doing it for a day or two, then perhaps you may be correct. I think the best thing is to wait a day, making sure that she IS peeing too often before putting her through more stress of the vets or more medicine that makes her feel rotten.

Hugs

oneandahalfcats said:

 
It could be that Grace did not pee the first time, but returned to pee?

I would definitely opt for the urinalysis before giving more antibiotic, especially clavamox which you say she does not tolerate well. This way the urine can be tested to confirm UTI and determine what kind of bacteria is causing it, so the right antibiotic can be administered. It would also be a good idea to give her a course of probiotics to replenish the good bacteria lost while on the previous round of clavamox.

How is Grace doing otherwise. Is she eating, drinking well?

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She is doing okay otherwise. She is eating, drinking, playing fine. I actually discussed her drinking with the vet as I was concerned this could be a kidney issue and he said it doesn't sound like it and asked if she was draining the water bowl which she's not. She does drink a few times a day, a few sips but he thought that sounded fine. She's definitely not constipated either so I know she's not straining to do that. She actually went #2 twice yesterday which is unusual for her. Sometimes she even skips a day which the vet says is fine. She was in the box this morning, did a tiny bit of scratching in one and then went in the other but she ran out so fast that I couldn't confirm again that she went. I want to make sure that of course she is going most importantly but I'm at work right now.

Also, yes I agree with you that I rather have the urine tested than just put her on meds. How will I ensure she has a full bladder when she goes to the vet though? I'm just not sure how to go about it?

Fleabags Mom said:

 
Are you sure she peed twice? I only ask because you say that Grace doesn't like to be watched and you may have put her off the first time. You also say about her not being outdone, so she may have been scenting. My cat will sometimes go into the litter box, dig around then walk off without peeing, then go back moments later.

My cat had a UTI. He cried when he peed because it hurt. He urinated blood. He sprayed the walls. He licked his bits immediately after urinating for quite a long time, he also licked himself all over his hind, legs, tail, everything because of pain of urinating. He was sleepy too.

So is Grace doing any of these things?

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Well I did wonder if maybe that was it like she got "shy bladder" or something and that's why she returned again to maybe "finish" what she started. No I'm not even sure if she went once or twice to be honest. I don't use clumping litter so I can't differentiate what's a new spot of urine in the box or an old one, plus she threw litter over it. Oh and Grace and Delilah do the "test" as I call it all the time, as in dig for a sec (or sometimes a long while) and then return to use the box.

Sorry about your poor kitty with the UTI and no thankfully Grace isn't doing any of that. That's why I wonder if she truly even has one.

Fleabags Mom said:

 
The other thing I feel I should add, is that you may be jumping to conclusions again. Your cat may very well have peed twice in a short amount of time, but how does that equal a UTI? If she keeps doing it for a day or two, then perhaps you may be correct. I think the best thing is to wait a day, making sure that she IS peeing too often before putting her through more stress of the vets or more medicine that makes her feel rotten.

Hugs

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I guess the reason I think UTI, or God forbid kidney disease, is because if she did indeed pee twice, it was within 5 minutes of each other. That would be beyond excessive if she did. I would probably garner to say that even CKD cats don't pee that often. I had a CKD kitty who declined very rapidly and his first symptom was "accidents" as in going outside the box and then eventual blindness due to high blood pressure. Yet another reason why I stress so often. Also, if she peed the first time, she could have been returning a second time, "thinking" she had to go but didn't. The vet asked if she appeared to be straining and it didn't seem that way.

I am going to keep an eye on her, although with her as you know, it can cause her to act oddly. I really don't want to return to the vet with her unnecessarily if it is just some fluke thing. I'm not home now so I can't see if she is going back and forth. I can only observe when I get home how she behaves and I guess go from there.

Sometimes Sebastian will change his mind and go to another litter box or he'll cover another cat's business, jump out, and go back in. 

It's my understanding that you feed your cats dry food still, correct? Cats will drink more on dry food.

The only way to truly address your concern is for Grace to have blood work and a urinalysis done. This will look at both kidney function and the presence of bacteria and/or crystals in the urine (UTI).

WorriedSoMuch said:

 
How will I ensure she has a full bladder when she goes to the vet though? I'm just not sure how to go about it?

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If Grace pees first thing in the morning, then you could wait a couple of hours for the pee to build back up and then take her in. My cats pee in the morning when I wake up, so if I take any of them in early, there is no urine to sample. So, I usually take them in around 11:00 a.m. This may interfere with your work schedule, however.

WorriedSoMuch said:

 
I guess the reason I think UTI, or God forbid kidney disease, is because if she did indeed pee twice, it was within 5 minutes of each other. That would be beyond excessive if she did. I would probably garner to say that even CKD cats don't pee that often. I had a CKD kitty who declined very rapidly and his first symptom was "accidents" as in going outside the box and then eventual blindness due to high blood pressure. Yet another reason why I stress so often. Also, if she peed the first time, she could have been returning a second time, "thinking" she had to go but didn't. The vet asked if she appeared to be straining and it didn't seem that way.

I am going to keep an eye on her, although with her as you know, it can cause her to act oddly. I really don't want to return to the vet with her unnecessarily if it is just some fluke thing. I'm not home now so I can't see if she is going back and forth. I can only observe when I get home how she behaves and I guess go from there.

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I do think it is wise to wait for a little bit - you've written a few 'If's there - nothing for sure and you've already admitted you're being overly cautious on everything. Please stop looking for the worst case scenario.  You didn't see Grace pee twice and she isn't displaying any other classic symptoms of a UTI and is as bright as a button in all other areas. I also do not think it is 'beyond excessive' if she did pee twice, female cat still can do urine marking, even if they've been spayed - it's just not as common. Doesn't mean there is owt wrong with them tho and they're not fit and healthy.   Want to avoid the possibility of a UTI in future? Feed Grace wet food... :-)

GoHolistic said:

 
Sometimes Sebastian will change his mind and go to another litter box or he'll cover another cat's business, jump out, and go back in. 

It's my understanding that you feed your cats dry food still, correct? Cats will drink more on dry food.

The only way to truly address your concern is for Grace to have blood work and a urinalysis done. This will look at both kidney function and the presence of bacteria and/or crystals in the urine (UTI).

If Grace pees first thing in the morning, then you could wait a couple of hours for the pee to build back up and then take her in. My cats pee in the morning when I wake up, so if I take any of them in early, there is no urine to sample. So, I usually take them in around 11:00 a.m. This may interfere with your work schedule, however.

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I have seen the jumping in and out thing a lot lately, 6-7 times in a row from Delilah. My concern was Grace squatted twice. I feed my cats both wet and dry, primarily wet. I'd say 75-80% wet and 20-25% dry so I feel she is getting enough water. It's hard to say on the water because she has days where she'll be at the bowl several times and the vet always says as long as she isn't drinking all the water in the bowl, it's probably nothing.

My cats usually pee in the morning too but when I took Delilah into the vet and was planning on having a urinalysis done since she was going in and out (although not squatting) her bladder was still empty and this was some hours later so I'm not sure in 5 hours, her bladder would be full. Unfortunately money is a bit tight right now too and the bloodwork will be around 180. My vet knows my circumstances so he told me he doesn't think it's something I need to rush into pursuing.

Fleabags Mom said:

 
I do think it is wise to wait for a little bit - you've written a few 'If's there - nothing for sure and you've already admitted you're being overly cautious on everything. Please stop looking for the worst case scenario.  You didn't see Grace pee twice and she isn't displaying any other classic symptoms of a UTI and is as bright as a button in all other areas. I also do not think it is 'beyond excessive' if she did pee twice, female cat still can do urine marking, even if they've been spayed - it's just not as common. Doesn't mean there is owt wrong with them tho and they're not fit and healthy.   Want to avoid the possibility of a UTI in future? Feed Grace wet food... :-)

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I didn't think spayed cats could "mark" anything so I'm not sold on the idea she was doing that. She certainly has never done that before. Also, Grace does eat wet food. She just has dry maybe twice a day. I'm aware that wet food is best.

Yesterday, Grace's litterbox behavior seemed okay I guess so I am just keeping an eye out. I'm just torn. I don't want to disregard what could be a serious issue.

Glad to hear they get mostly wet.  

When I took both Boo and Caesar in to the vet last Friday, neither of them had urine because they literally went right before I put them in the carrier (little buggers). My vet is very flexible in that they have "drop off" option so that I can go to work and they can do their thing. Since neither of them had urine, the vet techs gave them fresh water (and maybe a little sub-q fluids) and just waited. I guess if you notice excessive peeing, you could just get the urinalysis done, since money is tight. 

She gets dry food maybe twice a day? Is it just a treat or a small meal? Do you think incorporating the ideas from the Getting More Water Into Your Cat article here at TCS might help?