Could the kittens have survived?

feralvr

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@Feralvr
Unfortunately, the vets around here are not always super-cooperative or supportive :(  I don't use this particular clinic often for that very reason, but they had a special going on. Even though I confirmed when making the appointment for number one kitty that they would place him into a carrier post-op, instead of back into the trap, he was in the trap when I picked him up. :eek:hno:   I called my favorite clinic for number two kitty. They also assured me that, as they always had in the past, they would put kitty in a carrier post-op, not back into the trap. When I pick kitty up, he's in the trap!

So, my new and improved, easy-to-use, bite-resistant, rehab set-up did me no good :( , I still have to transfer kitty, wrestle the cage about, and crawl around on the floor. And since I've got a 32" trap to deal with in that small space, instead of a 20" carrier, it can only be done on the floor, therefore I can only do one cat a time. Factor in my work schedule, and that translates into 1cat per week if it's a female, 2 per week if they're male. :sigh:
I'm thankful I've only got 5 cats to get done right now.
:sigh: :sigh: DOUBLE that one..... My goodness - I have never had these issues. The three TNR clinics I use all place my ferals into a carrier and not back in the trap. How frustrating and unhelpful of them not to do as you ask. :(

I guess you could transfer the kitty into the carrier from the trap. I know, not the easiest but I have done this once or twice. I use a piece of thin plywood cut to the same size opening of the trap- slide that in front of the trap door opening as I tie up the trap door. Place the trap butted up to the carrier, slide the plywood away and the cat will for sure want to run into the carrier where it is darker and enclosed. Slide the plywood back in front of the carrier, take the trap away, then as you are closing the carrier door over, slowly slide the plywood away, then latch the door. I do wear gloves to protect my hand, just in case.

You doing a good thing here for these kitties and I wish you great success in trapping. :cross: :vibes::vibes::vibes::vibes::vibes:
 
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susank521

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If I catch a female tomorrow I'll have to do as you suggest @Feralvr and transfer from trap to carrier so I'll be able to do another on Sat. I'm perplexed as to why they are reluctant to put them in the carrier. The only answer I get is that it's for the safety of the cat.

Since it's getting lighter earlier in the morning now, I've been able to get a better look at these newcomers and how they interact.

The older tabby is not a feral, she is a timid stray that looks like she could already be pregnant. She's a polydactyl and she has a flea collar on that looks tight. We progressed to a fist/head bump today so I'm hoping within a couple of days to get that blasted flea collar off of her and get a feel of her belly. She is definitely not the caretaker for those kittens.

I believe now that of the 5 newcomers I've seen so far, 3 of them are about 6 months old and I am assuming they are litter mates.

Which leaves one black cat who I originally thought was also one of the kittens. After getting a very brief closer look I was left with the impression that he was older than the kittens and may be a male. Hopefully, I'll find out for sure sooner or later.
 
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susank521

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Thanks for the vibes, they sure worked! I caught the other black cat this morning.
He is usually more cautious and I think he's older, so I was expecting trouble getting him. It took a grand total of 90 seconds! Once again, I'm proven that I know nothing about cats.
This is ridiculous, it's been so easy. 

I'll be very interested to know this ones gender, because so far it's seems the most likely candidate to have reared these kittens.
 

ondine

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Whoo hoo!  I have never figured out trapping out.  Whenever I am sure the cat will be easily trapped, he or she fools me.  And the opposite happens, too.

Well, thank goodness you got this one.  If its female, you've not shut down the baby machine.  Good job!
 
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susank521

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This latest black one is an older male. So, unless there is another surprise female out there, I think this is a situation like all of you mentioned at the very beginning; the male (father?) raising the kittens. 

One person has told me twice of seeing a cat whose description does not match any of my known ones. But she's a dog person. You know how they are, they think all cats look alike.


The little stray now keeps close to the feeding station and greets me when I arrive. Yesterday morning it was finally light enough to get a good look at her. She is younger than I first thought. I got a good feel of her belly, and she did not feel pregnant, nor was the collar tight as it had appeared to be, so I left it on her for now. I can't in good conscience leave her where she is much longer, she's too young, too tame, and no friends, survival chances not good. Hmmm.... wonder where she'll end up?
My poor, poor husband! Do you think he'd notice one more?

More vibes requested for tomorrow, please. My hope is to catch the other (last?) kitten.
 

feralvr

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Once again, I'm proven that I know nothing about cats. :dizzy: This is ridiculous, it's been so easy. 
OH hun!! :lol3: I think we all are still trying to figure them out AND I honestly think all cats want to keep us on our toes this way. :lol2: Your doing a GREAT GREAT job. Congrats on your recent capture and hope that your next trappings go as smoothly. :cross: Some are so easy and some are SOOOOOO difficult. We have to be prepared for any and all outcomes. ;)

I still don't get that about the vet/vet techs not wanting to place the feral cat into a carrier right after surgery. Putting them in a carrier while asleep after surgery is actually safer for them than going back into the trap. It is more enclosed, darker, and gives them a feeling of being in a little den. I hope that you can insist on this - I mean - you are the one paying the bills. :nod:

:lol3: I think your hubby may notice one more. I know mine would..... :rolleyes: BUT - that doesn't stop me. :lol3:
 
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susank521

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No luck trapping this morning. I put the little stray in a carrier then into my car as soon as I got there this morning, and gave her lots of food, to keep her out of the traps.

Then I waited.... and waited..... and waited..... and waited!

No one showed up.

One more, as far as I know, and probably a female, and now we start the waiting game. Good grief! I knew it was going too easily and I had to go and brag about it!

I could have taken the stray in instead, if I hadn't fed her all of that food
Oh well, my next clinic opportunity is next Sat, so we'll give it another go then.

@Feralvr they told me they put the feral cats back into the traps now in case there is a problem with the cat so they can get to it to give it an injection. Like you, I sure don't get the logic. If something is wrong with the cat, it's not going to be in any shape to cause trouble, just take the lid off of the carrier to get to him.
 

ondine

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They can use a metal "fork" to nudge the cat to the back of the trap. where they can give him a shot in the butt through the wire holes. The fork fits through the trap's wire sides and makes a sort of wall to keep the cat from running back and forth.  Lifting the lid on a carrier may scare even a sick cat.  No sense in chasing a cat if you don't have to.

Glad you can get the stray more easily.  Trapping is such an inexact science; that's what makes it so frustrating and what makes people give up sometimes.  Keep at it - you will get him/her!
 

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They can use a metal "fork" to nudge the cat to the back of the trap. where they can give him a shot in the butt through the wire holes. The fork fits through the trap's wire sides and makes a sort of wall to keep the cat from running back and forth.  Lifting the lid on a carrier may scare even a sick cat.  No sense in chasing a cat if you don't have to.

Glad you can get the stray more easily.  Trapping is such an inexact science; that's what makes it so frustrating and what makes people give up sometimes.  Keep at it - you will get him/her!
Exactly!

And even a dying feral cat will spring out of an opened carrier and raise hell at the clinic. Never underestimate the power of fear. They believe they are fighting for their very lives, so no holds barred.

As I was reading through this thread I thought to add a couple tips.

Males always seem to be the more anxious to be trapped ones, and even retrapped! 

Also other cats may have witnessed the trappings and will be very reluctant to step foot inside one.

You can always camouflage the trap by sticking it in bushes, so that only the dfoor opening is poking out, with some inviting tuna, which I always use with great success.

One other thing, anytime you trap a cat, they leave behind their scents, of fear, adrenaline, and it somehow stays there on the trap for a some time and must be cleaned out. Obviously will deter others from getting in it. 

Easy, just take any household spray cleaner like 409, etc, spray it very well and allow to sit for a couple minutes, then power hose it off completely. Be sure to rinse really well so that doesn't leave a smell too!
 

feralvr

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they told me they put the feral cats back into the traps now in case there is a problem with the cat so they can get to it to give it an injection. Like you, I sure don't get the logic. If something is wrong with the cat, it's not going to be in any shape to cause trouble, just take the lid off of the carrier to get to him. :confused:
That so very, very unlikely and extremely rare that a feral cat would need anything else after surgery. AND - it would be simple to transfer him either into a cage in the hospital OR directly into the trap from the crate with a little encouraging. Taking the top off of the crate would not be the best idea even if the cat is ill and it would be extremely alarming for a feral cat - sick or not!! ;) I still would insist and if they just won't do it - then ask for a discount. :lol3: :lol2: jk

Trapping VIBES !!!!!!! for success!!!! :vibes::vibes::vibes::vibes::vibes::vibes::vibes::vibes::vibes::vibes:
 
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catwoman707

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Yes, they do the same at the monthly feral clinic where they spay and neuter up to 100 ferals that day.

They must be brought in traps so they can use a fork thing to scoot the cat to one end to anesthetize it, then they are returned to the traps in case there is a reaction to the anesthesia or bleeding occurs.

Don't want to risk an escape. Ferals go pretty bonkers if escaped into an indoor space since they've never seen indoors and are not used to people. Very hard to get again. Bad situation! lol~

It's risky for you as well to try transferring into a carrier, I think I missed why you wanted to transfer them.
 
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susank521

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 I still would insist and if they just won't do it - then ask for a discount.
jk

Trapping VIBES !!!!!!! for success!!!!
I wrote a note to the vet pleading my case and even included my shoulder MRI, right knee xray, and photos of scars from past bites (just kidding about the enclosures but I really did write a note!
), but kitty still ended up in the trap. 

With so few to do, it's not really a big deal, and since it is a low cost spay/neuter operation (in another county about 25 miles away, but still my cheapest option) I guess they are giving me a discount ($65 female & $55 male, includes ear-tip and rabies) compared to the other two "regular" vet offices I use.

Thanks for the vibes! There was quite a bit of fur in the feeding station on Sat. Whatever happened in there wasn't violent enough to knock the feeder over or produce blood, but that could be why no one showed up when I got there.
Don't want to risk an escape. Ferals go pretty bonkers if escaped into an indoor space since they've never seen indoors and are not used to people. Very hard to get again. Bad situation! lol~
It's risky for you as well to try transferring into a carrier, I think I missed why you wanted to transfer them.
Bonkers is exactly the word!


It's a long story about my "remodel" of my little rehab area over the winter. What the problem really boils down to is a nasty little 3-letter word called AGE
and the limitations it imposes on lifting, carrying, lugging, and crawling.
 

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I so 'get' the whole AGE thing! haha- 


You are getting pretty much the standard discounted rate for a regular vet, however around here we have several options for truly low cost for ferals, SPCA does them for $20. males and $35.00 females, the monthly feral cat clinic, $20.00 per cat, our vet we use for my rescue is $30.00 males, $40. females, includes vaccine, dewormer too.

However the feral clinic monthly, we luck out, being so close to UC Davis it is vets from there and students in training, so they s/n, vaccinate, deworm, deflea, eartip and an overall exam, teeth, etc. for 20 bucks :) Awesome.
 

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I so 'get' the whole AGE thing! haha- :anon: .
:lol3: :lol2: Add me into this one. Whatever makes it easier on the body - at this point. :bigthumb:

Susan - that is a little more steep than what I pay here for feral cat TNRs. :slant: It is $35.00 - male or female, and includes everything too. But as you say, you only have a few to go. :D :vibes::vibes::vibes:
 
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susank521

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Compared to city prices I know it's high, it's one of the trade-offs for living in the boondocks. But... if I weren't in the boondocks, there probably wouldn't be so many stray and feral cats. But... if there were, and I had this many cats on my property in the city or 'burbs, I'd be considered a crazy cat lady hoarder 
  instead of a rescuer! 
Ok, so maybe that last thought might have already been whispered by some friends and family. 


"Kitten" number 3 is in the infirmary recuperating from HIS (yes, another boy!) neutering last Wed. I'll release him Sat. morning after I get the little stray packaged up. The little stray will be staying on my property after her recuperation. If she's already been spayed I sure hope she's tatooed. She wouldn't be the first one that I've taken to be spayed only to find, after being incised, that it had already been done :(

As far as I know right now, that is all of the winter newcomers to this feeding station. The final tally: 3 boys about 7months old now (the kittens), one older male, minimum 2.5 years old, and one stray female about 6 months old.

My conclusion is that the older male reared the kittens, just as all of you suggested at the very beginning!  

Therefore: The kittens survived!!!
 
 
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that's brilliant, what a great story, and wonderful of you to get them all neutered.  It will be interesting to see if the adult male hangs around and how he behaves toward the kittens when they get older. 

Our putative father (a battle-scarred ginger tom) disappeared soon after we neutered and adopted our 3 kittens (and eventually their mother too).  I often wonder what became of him.  He didn't  'raise'  the kittens but he was very tolerant and protective of them. Sadly I was not able to capture him before he went missing.
 
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susank521

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I'm sorry you weren't able to catch him, but that's what happens so often. I was expecting that same difficulty in getting this father caught, him being older and more savvy. He's black, and the first kitten that I caught was black and there is another black male at that feeder that I neutered a couple of years ago. It was dark when I caught him. After he went into the trap, I put him into the back of my car and kept trying to get a look at his ear, but he kept lunging at me and, even with the flashlight, I just couldn't tell if his ear was tipped. You wouldn't think that those previously trapped would fall for the same thing again, but there's always at least one! I really couldn't believe that he was that easy to catch and was convinced that I had re-caught someone.  

I hope I get the opportunity to see them in the future. One or two of the kittens have been making themselves visible lately when I arrive in the mornings, peeking out of the weeds, but now that the trapping and, therefore, the canned food, is over they may stop that. 

The little stray got spayed yesterday and is now in the recuperation area. She was not pregnant and I had not observed her in heat, so I'm assuming she's only 7 months or so. She will stay on our property unless I discover she got lost and by some miracle I find her owner. Sadly, as we all know, it's more likely that she was abandoned or dumped :(
 
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susank521

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I have had brief, infrequent sightings of all but one of the newcomers. The one I haven't seen was the last one I caught (the most shy of the bunch), so not too surprising.

The little stray, Peaches, is still and my place, where I'm sure she'll remain. She is such a sweetie and looks like she'll be a big girl. This past Wed. was her first day of being out all day with the general population. She still doesn't wander too far away from the infirmary which I'm using as her kennel. There's not any food out during the day so she keeps that kennel in sight in case someone happens to put food in her bowl. She followed me into Crooner's kennel this morning and had to go out through the cat door. The cat doors have multiple layers of heavy plastic strips over the opening that the cats have to push through. Peaches came right on through with just a little help and encouragement from me.

It's funny how long it takes for some of the cats to realize there's a new kid on the block. They're not really sure until they sniff whiskers, then they hiss a little and trot off. The look they give me, though... "Are you kidding me? Another one?"

Tomorrow Peaches will be moving into the Clowder Kennel. She'll be separated at night in that infirmary area from the rest of the cats, at least for a few nights. 

 


Peaches post-spay. April 13, 2014                                                                                   Look at all of those toes!
 
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susank521

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There's another one!!!! Imagine my surprise yesterday morning when I saw THREE solid black cats together waiting for breakfast.
I've known there were 3, but only two of them should be hanging out together. It's so hard to tell on black cats 20' away in front of a foliage background if they have a cropped ear. Another siting this morning confirms there is an un-cropped small black cat out there!

Good grief! There's no telling how many times I've seen it, but disregarded it, thinking it was one of the others. I do believe that from now on I am not stopping at cropping and tatoos. While they're in custody post-neuter I am painting orange pokadots on them, too!

Could this be momma? I'll get the traps back out next week and, hopefully, we'll find out shortly. She (?) is a small cat and not obviously pregnant , but if she is one of the "kittens" it would probably be early days for her. If it is momma, who is presumably an experienced breeder, wouldn't you think she would already be quite far along in a pregnancy, if she had not already had a litter this season?

I guess that question would have regional answers, wouldn't it? I'm in north Georgia, USA, so I expect the breeding season here begins earlier than what you experience in Sweden, New Jersey, and Indiana. That might be an interesting new thread.
 
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