Could the kittens have survived?

As I was approaching the parking lot one early morning last September (I think) I saw a previously unknown tabby carry a kitten across the road, through the parking lot, and down the hill behind my Dumpster Cats' feeding station. Quite a long run for a momma with a mouthful of kitten, and she had to stop to rest 3 or 4 times before eventually disappearing over the edge of the hill. It was dark and since I was in my car I had to keep quite a distance away, so the only view I had of the kitten was in silhouette as momma ran in front of my lights, but I'm guessing that the kitten looked about 4 weeks old.

Ok, so now I know that I have a breeding female and at least one kitten that will need attention. Sadly, about 2-1/2 weeks later I found a nursing tabby dead in the parking lot, apparently hit by a car. As far as I know (bear in mind this one was a surprise to me) there are no other breeding or nursing females and, even so, I don't believe that there is a typical colony community back there. The terrain is rugged, to put it mildly, and having tried before to find a sick cat down there I knew the odds of finding kittens were slim, but I did search, but without success. 

Fast forward to last Monday. Glancing out of the window as I'm coming down the back steps to leave the building I see 3 young cats who could very well be about 5 months old, playing along the edge of the back parking lot!  

Which brings me to my question. Could the kittens have survived? Or is it more likely that there is another breeding female?

Susank521 said:

 
Which brings me to my question. Could the kittens have survived? Or is it more likely that there is another breeding female?

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the questin put this way the answer is easy: the second the second scenario is more probable.

but it is not impossible they did survived.   especielly if  there could also be a second caretaker, perhaps a younger sis to the mom, or even the father.   its not unheard of they do have family groups with the male actively helping and protecting. 

some forumite even witnessed the tom was the main caretaker fo them two.

A younger sis to the mom, or a female from previous litter helping, is not unusual, sometimes even rather common, especielly in colony-situations

If a liteer of orphanded 6 weeks would survive on his own?  I suppose in good circumstances some of them could.  Althoug Im sure they were more than 3 in the beginning.

Anyway, you got here an new chance to enrich this world, make it a little better.   

Good luck!

Thanks for the reply Stefan. You're right, put the way I did, the most likely answer is obvious.

 I didn't think that there was a "traditional" colony back there. But then this tabby and her kitten(s) were a complete surprise, too!  Maybe she had been a new arrival, having discovered the feeder just a short time before moving her kittens closer. And along with her kittens perhaps she brought the other usual companions (sister, older daughter, etc). I sound like I'm in denial, don't I?   I guess I don't have as much knowledge of, or control over, this group as I thought I did. Anyway, the trap will be coming back out as soon as the weather permits. 

I don't think ithurts to have hope. It may be unlikely, but vetainly not impossible as far as survival. A story I have that's similar......


I saw -large orange male last week venture toward our feeding station. He was new to us...an outsider if you will (all the othe colony cats from streets over, we'd fixed & all seemed to be from a slim gene pool....predomininantly grey (sometimes tiny white chest spots, some sleek black, a few black forties, even one outcast calico. But generally dark tints of the night. But a few nights ago a large red tiger male edged toward the feeding station. I got a good look-poor guy has -probably months before been violently hit by a car-like it bounced off his side, ripping a tire-sized & shaped piece a orange fluff & skin from him. But into the night before anyone could come close. We-all though, sadly that was it for him. Surely no cat could survive that.

Then last night & tonight what shows up at our food station? Robo orange cat! Wound healing-I guess as well as a life-threatening wound over 1/4 of a body can. Both nights he downd almost 6 cups if food each time! Once the weather lets up we're going to try to trap him (although he's a wily one).

So I told that story so that these street guys are amazingly tough!!!! Just when I give up on one-----I'm surprised and this happens over & over again.

So don't give up. Keep the routine, keep the faith. And no matter what-you are making a difference in so many little lives!!!!!!! Who wouldn't be around without you!

You're right @kittychick it is absolutely beyond belief what some of them can survive. So many times I'm glad I don't know their stories. Too sad.

I fuss about snow, absolutely despise the stuff, but what an interesting story it can tell by observing the tracks to a feeder. Increased food consumption is expected in fall & winter, so I didn't think too much of that, but now that I'm aware of these 3 young cats I've been paying more attention. Going by the added feeder traffic during the daylight hours I am thinking/hoping that the scenario involving the kittens being raised by a reproducing relative is very possible. The downside is that there are more than just the 3 young cats to catch . 

I can attest to the fact that there are tomcats who love and care for their kittens. My feral Muffin took very good care of his 3 kitten sons, brought them to me and my neighbor to feed, sat in front of them while they ate to protect them from predators, allowed them to eat the food first and then ate later, played with them, smacked them when they got out of line, and (I believe) missed them terribly when we trapped and adopted them. Their mama cat roamed a lot, but Muffin kept an eye on them steadfastedly. There are also many kind people who feed and care for feral cats, so maybe a human took care of them.  

Hi SusanK

I too had an experience where a stray or feral tomcat helped mom watch over kittens that were likely his.   I didn't much like him hanging around while I was trying to tame them (eventually I adopted mom and 3 of the kittens who are doing fine as house cats; the biggest kitten was adopted out to a loving home) but as they seemed to have a good relationship I left him food outside and spoke nicely to him.  He would hang back until the kits had finished eating, and to my surprise was never aggressive toward them even though he would hiss and spit at me if I approached.  He disappeared in the late fall, after all the kittens were neutered and doing well inside.  Perhaps he felt his job was done and moved on - especially since mom had been successfully spayed by then. 

As suggested, perhaps other helpers were involved or humans feeding them as well.  Are the kittens still around?

What a good daddy Muffin was MsAimee!

As you have all pointed out, a male raising the kittens really is a possibility. I don't know why I never seriously considered it. That would be the best case, as far as I'm concerned, rather than having another unknown female out there. At a different location and colony I have seen a feral male watching and waiting with feral mamma when she brought her kittens to a feeder. I've also seen, at yet another location, two orphaned kittens, about 11 weeks old, attach themselves to a neutered male, following him around, etc. The last was really quite comical. When the kittens first started following him around it was like he thought they were stalking him or something!

As for other humans, that is very unlikely. The terrain behind the parking lot is very wooded and rough (I have to slide down about 25' on my rear before reaching a place to stand). There are no other humans around, except my fellow co-workers, and they all keep me well advised of any cat sightings

Cheers! for you Lrosewiles for taming them and finding homes for mom and kits!  That's so sweet about dad looking out for them. I hope that you'll see him again one day.

I haven't seen the kittens in a while, but that's not unusual. These are ferals in the truest sense of the word. Ghost kitties is what I call them. Going by the amount of food disappearing during the day I feel sure they're still out there. Again, going by the amount of food disappearing I'm wondering if there are 4, not just 3.

It will be awhile before I can start trapping (my infirmary is not heated), but I'll probably start putting the baited trap out the last week of Feb. so they will be used to going in it by the time I and the weather are ready.

From various sightings I now think that there are 4 kittens, now about 6 months old. I've also seen another cat, a tabby and a little older in appearance, who maybe their mother or the one that reared these kittens.

I started putting the baited trap (wired open) out last Monday in preparation to begin trapping the end of next week.

This morning, for the first time, I had 3 of them make their presence known as I was getting the trap situated. I got the trap placed and covered, then turned around to walk the 15 feet back to my car to get the food. When I got to the car I glanced back and one of them was already headed into the trap! He took off as soon as I stopped walking, but didn't run too far away.

I hate to say anything, afraid I might jinx it, but, when I do start trapping, it doesn't look like this will be one of those lengthy, boring waits!

I trapped a feral cat in the woods behind our house, had her spayed and was recuperating her.  All that took about a week.  Imagine my horror when I saw the first of her four (!) kittens near the edge of the woods.  They were not hard to catch, poor dears, as they were starving.

She had been chortling at night and I thought it sounded like she was sadly calling kittens.  I asked the vet and she said she didn't think she was lactating.  As it turns out, the kittens were just starting on hard food, so mom's milk had been drying up.

Luckily, we found homes for everyone and all was well.  But I am convinced that even if I hadn't sighted that first kitten, at least a few of them would have survived.  Feral cats are tough!

I am so glad your kittens survived! I have no idea how ferals survive the harsh winter without a caregiver, and with the ground frozen and covered with snow. Somehow some do, because there are always ferals around in the Spring.

Susank521 said:

I hate to say anything, afraid I might jinx it, but, when I do start trapping, it doesn't look like this will be one of those lengthy, boring waits!

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Nope, I don't think you "jinxed" anything !!!! I am so glad you have sighting of those kittens and that they have survived ! Very, very possible and it does happen, believe it or not, males can and do care for their young. I have witnessed this scenario with one of my male feral cats a couple of years ago. Boy - was he a good daddy and watched over those little ones like a hawk. Even waiting to eat until they all had their share. My heart melted over and over that one winter watching this. I also leave a trap outside with the door tied up. Makes it so much easier on trap day. :nod:

Keep us posted and mega, mega vibes for success (AND that it is quick). Thanks and a hug for what you are doing.

It is amazing what they can survive. And how sweet that is about your boy, Feralvr!  

I will be very interested to learn the gender of the tabby, as I think he/she must have reared these kittens. I must say that they are all adorable! I know, I say that about all of them. But goodness, the first time I saw them when I looked out that window and thought, could it be? Oh my, how I laughed and cried, right there by myself, watching them. These guys are extra adorable!

I did that to Dolly, Ondine. She must have just nursed when I caught her, as the vet assured me there was no sign she was lactating. I had no idea she had kittens. I felt awful. I'm sure it was her first litter, and a couple of days after I released her she brought two kittens to the feeder.

I, too, had tears (happy and shocked) running down my face upon looking out my window and witnessing such great love from a father. That was my Yogi - if anyone else remembers. He just disappeared one April day and I never, ever saw him again. Broke my heart because I had planned to re-trap him and bring him in for the summer to socialize.

I understand, too, about how heartbreaking and worrying it is when you trap a female feral cat to get her spayed whom may have kittens somewhere. Once released, she will go immediately to her kittens if she had them and will still be able to nurse them for a bit, anyway. It is a very, very hard reality of being a rescuer and tnr advocate - that the goal is to prevent anymore from being born but in the meantime the little ones that still need momma may perish. We try out best, though, to do the right thing. for your upcoming efforts!!!

First "kitten" trapped this morning. It was very easy and went smoothly. Literally, it was less than a minute after I got the traps baited, I turned and started to slowly walk away when I heard the trap close. After I got the loaded trap into the back of my car I sat in my car to wait for the others to return and feed. Sixty seconds to trap and sixty minutes to watch the others feed.

As you know, Feralvr, I remodeled my little TNR recuperation area, so this guy will be testing out the new facility. Next weekend I'll be going for two.

Very good!  I've found the boys are either dumb or cocky because I usually catch them first. 

I think it's greed! Whatever the reason, it does seem to be true. I have dropped the kitty off, but won't know until I pick him/her up if this evening if this one proves the theory.

I've got my reservations in for two next Sat. That's the last weekend of the special at this clinic :-(

Susank521 said:

I've got my reservations in for two next Sat. That's the last weekend of the special at this clinic :-(

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Really.... can't the clinic do a little more for you? extend the special? Argh - it should always be the special price... Might not hurt to ask. They must know how iffy it is when trapping feral kitties - setting an exact date for capture is not always 100% guaranteed. :lol3: GOOD LUCK !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Hope the little kitten you trapped will soon have company. :cross:

Ondine said:

 
Very good!  I've found the boys are either dumb or cocky because I usually catch them first. 

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Yep! First kitty is a boy. Second kitty is a boy.

First kitty was released last Wed right after second kitty went into the trap. These two are definitely about 6 months old.

@Feralvr Unfortunately, the vets around here are not always super-cooperative or supportive   I don't use this particular clinic often for that very reason, but they had a special going on. Even though I confirmed when making the appointment for number one kitty that they would place him into a carrier post-op, instead of back into the trap, he was in the trap when I picked him up.   I called my favorite clinic for number two kitty. They also assured me that, as they always had in the past, they would put kitty in a carrier post-op, not back into the trap. When I pick kitty up, he's in the trap!

So, my new and improved, easy-to-use, bite-resistant, rehab set-up did me no good , I still have to transfer kitty, wrestle the cage about, and crawl around on the floor. And since I've got a 32" trap to deal with in that small space, instead of a 20" carrier, it can only be done on the floor, therefore I can only do one cat a time. Factor in my work schedule, and that translates into 1cat per week if it's a female, 2 per week if they're male.

I'm thankful I've only got 5 cats to get done right now.

Well, hopefully they are all boys! But even so, keep at it and slowly, the jib will be done.